Body wood matters-not

[chabby]

I've finally proven the answer to this question once and for all, at least to myself. The 89 Squier strat I've been raving about since I got a few weeks back is a plywood body. So either body wood doesn't matter, or plywood id a damn good wood fro strats-lol!

It sounds as stratty as any start I've ever owned. Does it bother me a little its a plywood body? Only because I know it gotta be the cheapest body you can make. Does that mean that a plywood tele would also sound just like any other Tele? I 'm kind of bewildered plywood sounds as good as anything i've heard on a strat.So why even bother with anything else? Put more coin into a great neck and pickups, hardware. So is it all pickups? Logic tells me it is.

Opinions please

[Astro1176]

Personally I think everything makes a difference, but few factors make a guitar sound objectively better, just different.

If the body made no difference, then a semi would sound the same as a mahogany would sound the same as a light swamp ash would sound the same as MDF. imho that generally is not the case.

Ply - or more specifically laminate - bodies got a bad reputation because 1: vintage guitars weren't made out of it and 2: cheap guitars with nasty pickups, hardware and workmanship in the 60s and 70s were made out of it.

Materials such as laminates are highly desirable in speaker cabinets and other acoustic devices because they are less likely to have resonances which would make certain notes louder than all the rest. They seem to be a valid choice for a solid body guitar.

[Mark Davis]

The species of the wood doesnt matter what does matter is how the neck and body resonate together.

If you have ever had a guitar and could never get it to sound good even after many different sets of pickups the neck and body are not a good match and until one of them is changed that guitar wont sound good.

[RockerDuck]

Solid wood bodied electric guitars have no tone wood at all. Ask any luthier.

[Ronkirn]

Thank you and thank you, You are both correct….

It is so frustrating to see guys constantly posting they made a change, and the resulting sound is the “best ever”, without adding “that they have heard.”

A change only makes a change… and not every change is an improvement to every one… it is entirely possible to have two guitars sounding very different, but, still be the “best” each respective owner has heard and both sounding dammm good.

The problem is us…. Few if any ever plop down several hundred bux for whatever…. Spend the weekend making the change, and come back and say, “skrued the pooch on that one…..” Nah… they rave on…they just gotta brag ’bout how sonic utopia has been discovered….and never mention that a month later they CL the booger…


A guitar need only sound good to you… and most of that comes from the amp…get that box right and about any decent guitar is gonna sound pretty darn good…

all these “tone quests” remind me of a checker game… it gets down to where each player only has one piece left and they can move around the board ad nauseam … never approaching a winning position…. Just moving constantly to some other location. Each next square is no better than the last, and the next, that they move to, is no improvement… it’s just some other block to be on.

All this is further compounded by so few actually knowing what they mean by “tone”.. do they mean articulation… do they know what articulation is…?

For the record… articulation is to your guitar’s sound as visual acuity is to seeing.

For instance…. Say you have a picture window… it looks out over a beautiful scene…. It doesn’t matter how clean the glass is, you are always aware of something “distorting” the view… remove the glass, and all becomes clear…

The same is true of sound… many refer to the “dirty glass in the window” effect as “veiled” sound… and to be sure there are some very good sounding instruments infected with a veiled sound… it’s just that when you encounter something at the upper echelons of sonic clarity, you realize how much “mud” you were hearing before.

But articulation is only one little “facet” making up the “tone compendium” .. take the “tone controls” roll ‘em one way and, you create a “hi pass filter” another direction and you create a low pass filter…. To keep it simple…

My point is that “good sound” should be the target. And ya gotta remember that the target is constantly moving…

No one has ever come close to successfully arguing my contention… that a poor guitar in the hands of a great guitarist can amaze you, while a great guitar in the hands of an amateur will sound terrible…. No one ever walks up and says, Man, you suck, but the guitar sounds amazing…

So…. Have fun…that’s what it’s all about…. Just be objective when you report the results… The reason…. There are a lot of youngsters coming in from the “cold” completely confused by all the BS myths out there… then the see someone say Funky Junk and plaster paste made me sound like Gilmore… and they are off to the races looking for the elusive sonic utopia… when all they need to do is learn how to use what they got…

Ron Kirn

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by RockerDuck

Solid wood bodied electric guitars have no tone wood at all. Ask any luthier.

What about mohoghany or rosewood solidbody guitars?

[Bigsnaketex]

I am a luthier.
Solid body guitars have no tone. The thing that matters most is "does the neck make a solid connection to provide resonance". Secondly, everything needs to be lined up accurately. Thirdly, your intonation must be perfect (as possible) and the guitar must be set up so the strings are as close to the pickups as possible......But most importantly, on an electric guitar, you gotta have great electronics!

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Bigsnaketex

I am a luthier.
Solid body guitars have no tone. The thing that matters most is "does the neck make a solid connection to provide resonance". Secondly, everything needs to be lined up accurately. Thirdly, your intonation must be perfect (as possible) and the guitar must be set up so the strings are as close to the pickups as possible......But most importantly, on an electric guitar, you gotta have great electronics!

Wow!

[Rolling Estonian]

Applauding Mr. Kirns post.

M

[naveed211]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

No one ever walks up and says, Man, you suck, but the guitar sounds amazing…

So…. Have fun…that’s what it’s all about…. Just be objective when you report the results… The reason…. There are a lot of youngsters coming in from the “cold” completely confused by all the BS myths out there… then the see someone say Funky Junk and plaster paste made me sound like Gilmore… and they are off to the races looking for the elusive sonic utopia… when all they need to do is learn how to use what they got…

Ron Kirn

Good quotes in there.

I don't think I'd go as far as to say the wood makes NO difference. I think a well made guitar that has good resonance can sound good regardless of what kind of wood that it is.

But to say that it makes no difference and doesn't matter? However slight, I can tell the difference between how mahogany sounds, to ash, to maple, to basswood to whatever. It's more of a nuance than "does it sound good?", yes, but it's there. In fact, I'd put maybe a tad more weight on tonality of wood choice over how good the electronics are, though obviously shoddy electronics are going to sound shoddy.

Ultimately, you're right, it doesn't matter as long as it sounds good to YOU.

[banjohabit]

Originally Posted by Rolling Estonian

Applauding Mr. Kirns post.

M

+ 1

[dsutton24]

Originally Posted by Bigsnaketex

I am a luthier.
Solid body guitars have no tone. The thing that matters most is "does the neck make a solid connection to provide resonance". Secondly, everything needs to be lined up accurately. Thirdly, your intonation must be perfect (as possible) and the guitar must be set up so the strings are as close to the pickups as possible......But most importantly, on an electric guitar, you gotta have great electronics!

You're a Luthier? In my experience as a bumbling cretin, neither of these things are true, and I'm not even reasonably sure about the 'solid connection' thing. As for 'great electronics', I try to go for 'appropriate electronics'. The best electronics in the hands of a goober will sound like goob.

My goal is usually to build something that plays and sounds good to me. If it's someone else's guitar, I try to do what they want.

[chippertheripper]

Rk is a wise dude.
I'd just like to add, the wood makes no difference if you're just going to smash away at the thing anyway. (which is how you should play anyway)

[PraiseTele]

Hi y'all!

I'm no luthier, that's for sure, but i had a lot (ask my wife and see her eyes roll...!) of electric guitars in my life.

And what is MY experience is that some of my favorite guitars turned out to be the "cheapest" made;i remember buying an 80$ Strat copy from MusicYo.com (now defunct), changed the pu for one of their "upgrades" "Quadrails" humbuckers, changing the saddles for Graphtech, same with the nut, putting some locking tuners AND taking the paint off the body (and seeing the cheap multi-laminate body material)...

But to this day, that was the most "alive" guitar i ever had; great articulation, note clarity, tone and all...

From this i would have to conclude that even a cheap guitar, even with cheap materials, if it's well made (well glued, nice fit neck pocket, and all) with sound better than decent.

I now play a 5 pieces neck and a 4 pieces body (neck-through) and it sounds amazing...but what if you had great woods but not glued well, or not set-up properly...would look the part but fail the job...

Just my 2 cents...

[Eric Daw]

90% of it is in the hands of the player. I can hear a little difference in what woods are used, say between pine and ash. I've made a lot of both. But like I say, it's mostly in your hands. And I agree with the original post, I have heard plywood guitars that sounded much much better than they should have. But even identical guitars will vary. There's x-factors. But, really, it's in your hands. Learn how to make any guitar sound the way you want it to and it doesn't really matter anymore.

[scat4me]

Funky Junk and plaster paste...Yes but only with a 3 barrel bridge and mint pickguard

[rangercaster]

When Les Paul designed his electric guitars, he did not want the guitar to vibrate or resonate ...

[bender66]

Originally Posted by rangercaster

When Les Paul designed his electric guitars, he did not want the guitar to vibrate or resonate ...

Correct. Didn't he say in Chasing Sound that the experiment was with a portion of old railroad track?

[thefees]

Tonal changes, and non tonal changes, that is the question.

Anyhow I think we have to try and not make it an end all statement. There are a lot of things that affect the tone of the guitar, some are major differences, and some minor, and some don't make any difference at all. I am not going to attempt to create some kind of comprehensive treatise on what I think the degree of contribution of each aspect of a guitar are the most influental, and which are least.

Additionally you have to compare acoustic only tones and amplified. I will however make a few general comments. Pickups and amplifiers make a big difference in my opinion, maybe even the biggest difference. Of course the electronics make a difference if you are talking about the pot value 250k vs 500k etc. but I don't think there are strong sound differences between selector switches unless one is defective.

Where different woods really show a difference in sound is in the necks. Maple necks and rosewood necks are almost like playing two different guitars.

Since bridges and nuts are what technically connect the guitar to the body, differences in that regard can have at least a nominal affect on tone; you know plastic nut as compared to bone.

I haven't found amplified guitars sound all that much different with minor string gauge changes, although different types of metals in strings can change the tone. And yes playing style can affect it as well. I find that by angling my pick I can get a very different tone then picking it straight on. I mostly play that way because of the deeper tone it creates.

The one thing everyone keeps leaving out is effects pedals because that is an outboard device that is not directly attributable to the guitars actual tone, although the end result is greatly affected. That of course is another topic, but nonetheless it is one of the single most important affector of tonal changes. I doubt few could argue that the subtle nuances created with a pedal as sophisiticated as a Boss GT10 is not an overriding contributor of overall tone. I see sound patches on You Tube where they recreate the exact guitar sound from for example Led Zeppelin, and the creator often spends 2 to 4 hours custom programming/adjusting to get that exact sound, only to share the patch advertisted for free through You Tube so you can download that patch and save it in your user pre-set banks as an option.

I just felt like talking. That is most of what I wanted to say. Cheers.

[Mark Davis]