EUROPEAN members:prices bf and aft the EURO??

[Nick Fanis]

I am doing a small research for the rise in prices after the Euro has substituted our national currency.
In Greece within 3 years EVERYTHING went up from 50% to 200% up! (EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE SALARIES OF COURSE....)
par example a bottle of milk was $0,5 now it is $1.5,a kg of potatoes was $0.3 now it is $1,2, a souvlaki was $0,6 now it is $2,3, a pack of cigarettes was $1 now it is $3,5, akg of meat was $3 now it is $8 a bus ticket was $0.2 now it is $0,8 .. a beer in a bar went from $3 to $10,a cup of cofee now costs $5(!) and restaurant prices went up almost 300% . it's a dissaster..

your experience??

[stechmann]

I'm so glad that we voted NO to the Euro !

[weelie]

I replied to this already, so either it was deleted or I had net problems.

Anyway: Milk used to cost .65€ (liter), now it's something like .77€ and some stores now import Estonian milk that you can get for around .65€. Well we bought it once a week or two ago, the next time it was out of stock. The new German Lidl chain sells milk for around .59€. Also some stores in another town are competing on milk prices, so the prices are really low there right now.

So yes and no. No idea about cigarettes, I think they are around 4.5€ a pack, but I don't smoke. Gasoline might be 1.20€ / liter now, I don't drive. Meat and bananas certainly shot up, but don't know the exact costs before and after. I think bananas rose before € already: In 1995, 4FIM per kilo was common, now 4€ per kilo is not impossible, so you count that as 6 (6FIM = 1€) fold increase.

People are blinded by the new currency, so that makes it easier raise prices. I like it that $ is cheap, and I know the expensive petrol prices will have some effect on all things. Our alcohol tax has gone down, which has affected our prices in a positive way. As has Lidl, who has been pretty aggresive entering the market. And I wonder why people think that inflation can be nonexistent year after year.

(I've only worked for 3 years, so I have more money now than I did a couple of years ago. So before Euro I couldn't afford anything, now I can afford some things... has nothing to do with currency though. I also moved to the capital city, so that may blind me in some respects.)

[weelie]

Cost of living 2002:
http://www.finfacts.com/irishcostofliving2003.htm
Most expensive cities 2004:
http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html

[FraKo]

Cost of life increased 22% min. up to 30% in my Country. In most cases, prices have been increased 100% for small-price items, due to the simple "change" from Lira to Euro. I mean, after the introduction of the new currency, most retailers simply transformed 1,000 ITL into 1 €. Problem is that, actually, 1 € = 1936,27 ITL, so almost twice. Our salaries didn't change, OF COURSE.

€uro is NOT responsible of that, the retailers are. And, of course, governments that didn't care (to say the less) of that. An example: before €uro, a ticket for the Milan tranports (subway/buses/trolleys) costed 1,500 ITL (ca. 1 $, actual change). Suddenly, starting "THAT" magical Jan. 1st it was converted into 1 €, about .23 € more. Official motivation? "It will be easier to buy a ticket with just one coin"... and the Milan Transport is a STATE corporation.

[Nick Fanis]

Same thing here everything that was GRD 100 was automatically "transformed" in 1 EURO ,problem is that 1 EURO is 341 GRD! (GRD=Greek Drachma)

and yes BAD goverment management was responsible for this every day theft we are experiencing not the Euro currency itself!
The first things that skyrocketed were fuel,electricity,telephone and water bills (and all these are STATE owned and managed!)

[FraKo]

Originally Posted by weelie

Cost of living 2002:
http://www.finfacts.com/irishcostofliving2003.htm
Most expensive cities 2004:
http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html

Wow, I'm SO proud... Milan jumped from #17 to #13 in just 12 months... just after NY... we're AHEAD!

[Nick Fanis]

these rankings in the links you have posted have NOTHING to do with the reality of the CITIZENS of the countries that are measured since they don't mention the most important factor : LOCAL AVERAGE SALARIES.

The average salary in Greece for example is $600 (The basic salary is $500) !(In Germany it is $1200 and in Finland even more).

the cheapest rent you can pay is $400!

So when goods in Greece cost the SAME (or MORE) with goods in Germany or Italy you can imagine how hard life is .(In fact during the Olympic Games the vast percentage of the tourists from Europe,Japan (!) and the US couldn't believe at how expensive things were!)

Before the EURO I was having a very easy time with the money I was making,now I barely can make ends meet ....(and my salary is the same)

They also don't mention another HUGE factor :UNEMPLOYMENT ,the higher the unemployment is (for example the official unemployment in my country is 15% ,the real one is 20%..) the more difficult things are.

They also base everything on the dollar/euro exchange rate so when the dollar weakens a city mooves up the lader!the problem is we don't have $ but euros!

[Scotland]

I have gone to Spain and Greece on numerous holidays and since the Euro came in, everything skyrocketed. I talked to a Spanish barman who told me that his wages are the same virtually since the Peseta, his rent has gone way up, food way up etc. etc. but so has the tips, that's the only way he survives. I just pity the poor workers who don't get access to tips, they must be finding things really hard. A similar thing happened here in the U.K. when decimal currency came to being.

[weelie]

Originally Posted by Nick Fanis

these rankings in the links you have posted have NOTHING to do with the reality of the CITIZENS of the countries that are measured since they don't mention the most important factor : LOCAL AVERAGE SALARIES.

Hey, you don't have YELL, Nick! :) I know what is needed is incomes at PPP (purchasing power), but I did not find them, so I just posted what I did find. And more specific stats were needed too. latest info across EU. But just couldn't find any of that. And yes, statistics can lie.

(I'm a "master of economics" graduate, not that would make my wages any better... Highly educated Finns' purchasing power 'lowest in EU': http://www.eiro.eurofound.eu.int/200...i0405202f.html ...German average wages are most certainly higher than ours!)

But I agree: The prices have gone up. And it must be most strongly felt in countries that have lower REAL wages, like Greece. Taxes and all, I don't think our country has high wages (they are average for EU, excluding the CEE countries), but on the other hand poverty and problems seem to be less than other countries, and unemployment is better than it was ten years ago.

Is there a big difference in Athens compared to other areas? To me Greece would seem like a coutry that is very much centralized on a few overcrowded spots.

[WallyArms]

I have been stationed in Italy since 2001; the switch from Lira to Euro was bad enough, but since I am paid in US dollars, the strength of the Euro against the US dollar has made it even worse. When I first got here, it wasn't impossible to feed my family of 5 for less than $20 at a pizzeria, $30 or so if we ate well. Now I spend $35-$45 Euro or more, which ends up being $50 US or more. It sounds like things are much worse in Greece, however.

[Nick Fanis]

Is there a big difference in Athens compared to other areas? To me Greece would seem like a coutry that is very much centralized on a few overcrowded spots.

well the other areas (what other areas.... Greece has 10 million people and 5,5 live in Athens )
have tremendous unemployment (in some parts it is around 40%!!) and since our system is centralized the goods are even MORE expensive than in Athens (especialy fuel and supermarkets!)

on the other hand what really saves the day in Greece is that most people have their own homes (most of them are slums but at least they are their OWN slums...) so many families live together under one (very crowded) roof...

this and the SUNSHINE of course

and sorry if it seemed like I was yelling brother as an economics master myself I had no right yelling to a fellow coleague!!

the "horrible salaries for educated people " senario is extremely common in Greece too,my wife has just got her University diploma in Economics and the all first salary offers she gets are all in the $600 ballpark

[FraKo]

Originally Posted by WallyArms

I have been stationed in Italy since 2001

I always wondered where you are. It would be nice to cross our sunburst Standards :)

[J-man]

Phewph! I'm glad we rejected the Euro too! Is there any advantage except to people too lazy to convert money (that includes businesses), I mean if we did take on the euro and one country in it had a market crash or had money troubles, everyone else would suffer.

[jhundt]

I moved from California to Holland in 2000. Then we still had the Dutch guilder which had been in use for 700 years or so. I was just getting used to the Dutch currency when we switched to the Euro. The Euro was more "dollar-like" so it was an easy transition for me in terms of user-friendliness. Most of my Dutch friends had a lot of trouble with the new denominations. The Euro's value was fixed at about 1 Euro = 2.20 Guilders. Prices were supposed to be controlled and increases would not be allowed, in theory. In practice, most prices jumped. Many sellers seemed to simply change the currency symbol, so that an previously cost the equivalent of 45 US cents now cost 1 US dollar. I am mostly oblivious to costs and prices, but my lovely Dutch wife is still fuming, every trip to the grocery store sets her off. We no longer go out for meals, "recreational shopping" is also a thing of the past.

The most amusing part, to me, is that as far as I can tell, NO ONE IN HOLLAND got to vote for or against this brave new currency. It was a done-deal and the public didn't need to worry our pretty little heads with all that international currency stuff.

Now it seems that the currency is being counterfeited, many shops won't accept 50 or 100 Euro bills. Oh yeah, they don't like 1 cent and 2 cent pieces either. Too much work and expense for the merchants. Prices are rounded at the check-out. This is supposed to save the retail business millions of Euros per year in costs. Prices have not lowered because of this particular saving.

[WallyArms]

Originally Posted by FraKo

I always wondered where you are. It would be nice to cross our sunburst Standards :)

Frako, I missed this post. I am in Sicilia, near Catania.