So why are guitar electronics soldered?

[reverbbb]

I know what the answers are before I even ask. But I wonder why pressure contact connections are not explored more these days. The guitar cable certainly is not soldered to the guitar, and with the gold plating, it seems extremely reliable.

George-L cables are not soldered and they seem to work fairly well.

The reason I ask, is that seems to be one of the limiting factors for changing pups on the fly. I read somewhere that someone had a store and he developed a pup system for demo'ing various pups into a guitar without having to unsolder everything. Wouldn't that be cool to have on your performance guitar? Of coarse, with the age of digital modeling rapidly approaching us, this whole concept would become obsolete in no time flat.

[arnoudse]

I think emg has some weird clip thing in their pickups so you can switch pickups/take them out easily. Also, I read in a magazine that Tommy Iommi bought a guitar company back in the day and developed removable pickups.

Maybe if the government limited us to 1 guitar this idea would catch on.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by reverbbb

But I wonder why pressure contact connections are not explored more these days.

Maybe to avoid this,

[PraiseCaster]

.....I helped a freind secure a patent on a "quick change" pick up replacement sytem, that he originally conceived, and I R&D'd, and improved upon the design. It did require a minor routing to the body (four spots in the pup cavity, aprox., .125"x.125", x.175"). It was so minor, it did not affect the tonal qualities of the guitar.

This system works like a charm: If you have a tremolo system, you can change out the pup in seconds. If it was a hard tail, as long as it takes you to change some strings, is how long it would take. you could go from a Humbucker, to a single coil (as long as the original route is for a humbucker), or simply swap out different style humbuckers, or different style single coils.

We used just about every conceivable meter, and device we could get our hands on to verify whether or not their was a loss of signal, sound, tone, etc., and to verify no added noise. Our results where: no change, period! Same as the stock soldered system.

The problem we faced is, none of the manufacturer's want to use something like this, unless it is their design out-right. Also, they said they might not get a lot of support from their "authorized" repair centers: it would cut into their pockets.

The biggest joke was, the two big name guitar manufacturers, wanted us to surrender all patent rights to them, sign a proprietary agreement, an arbitration agreement (we can't suit), with arbiters of their choice, and give them the design (with all rights), and trust them: if they decide to use it, they have the right alone to either compensate us as they see fit, or decide we dont deserve any compensation. And once submitted, it becomes their intellectual property!

This was about ten years ago, so I guess the 10 year time line is about up on the patent (if it hasnt expired already).

[BB]

There are several guitar makers out there that have quick-change-interchangable pickup assembly's. Dodge is one and I believe RKS ( maybe not ) and Music Man do something similar. Not sure why it has not caught on, but probably the same reason I have a strat, several teles, a 335, a P-90 equipped axe, dedicated slide axes, ect.

While it would be nice to quickly put different pickups in my #1 guitar, I'm happy with the what I have now. If I do want to change, it only takes a little time to do it. Plus, I like the the way different guitars look, feel, play, sound and respond with the pickups that are in them.

Don't get me wrong...I think it's a great idea. Just like I thought an overdrive/distortion pedal with a foot controler to adjust gain levels on the fly is a great idea. No one else seems to think so though!

[reverbbb]

Patents have a 17 year life. However, there are associated maintenance fees. If you don't pay the maintenance fees, then you can loose the rights to the patent. They do give you the chance to re-instate your patent if you catch up on the fees.

I am not certain this is how it works, but is what I have heard.

Now, the average cost of filing a patent with attorneys is close to $17K these days. It would be a shame to see that money go nowhere towards a product. But the "big two" may not be the ones that needed this concept as much as some other innovative makers (hint, hint).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by PraiseCaster

This was about ten years ago, so I guess the 10 year time line is about up on the patent (if it hasnt expired already).

7 years more to go.... The expiration date is either 20 years from the filing date or 17 years from the issue date, whichever results in a longer term.

Saddly, these situations are quite common and it's quite frustrating. I understand your feelings because your friend and you worked hard to develop the concept and fairness state the you deserve to profit from it. However, life isn't fair and it seldom works out that way. A story.

Few years ago an uncle designed and patented a portable steam room (not sure if this is the right translation…) and no one cared about it. The only company interested wanted to split the profits like 90 - 10 and get the rights for future applications outside the field. In top of that, the company offered him a high level job in their R&D department to develop other ideas. My uncle didn't accept the deal, even though I told him that probably that was the way to go since he didn't have any money to develop the product and the banks didn't want to hear about it. Well, when the patent expired, this company finished the development and started selling the product very well. Big companies can be very patient because they've got plenty of $$$$. My uncle?… he went broke and had to take a cubicle job to support his family and his invention days were over. Had he taken the deal he would've made some money….

Praisecaster, I don't mean to say that you and your friend should've given your invention away or something like that. You guys know what's best for you. My unlce's story isn't probably the standard… Look at Leo….

[dhdfoster]

I can't really see that there would be a lot of incentive for companies to increase their production costs by installing connectors instead of soldering so we can take out the OEM pickups easily. Solder is cheap and fast in the hands of a skilled worker, and Fender doesn't see a dime from a set of Fralins.

Marketing a kit; a set of connectors that only get soldered in the guitar once by a tech, and then each new set of pups gets a pair of crimped counterparts would be the way to go.

[Will V.]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The only company interested wanted to split the profits like 90 - 10 and get the rights for future applications outside the field. In top of that, the company offered him a high level job in their R&D department to develop other ideas.

Wow, that was not a bad deal at all. Very good, I would say. He probably could have negotiated something slightly better- say, 15% of profits on that product, and some company stock. If you think about it, he wouldn't have been taking any risk at all.

As for swappable pickups, I just don't think there is any incentive to do that. Musical instrument companies are usually fairly conservative when it comes to design, and so are buyers.

[PraiseCaster]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Saddly, these situations are quite common and it's quite frustrating. .......However, life isn't fair and it seldom works out that way. A story.

How true, how true!

Originally Posted by Raymond

Well, when the patent expired, this company finished the development and started selling the product very well. Big companies can be very patient because they've got plenty of $$$$.

Yeah, my buddy and I figured that this would probably be the course that they (the mfr's) take.

Originally Posted by Raymond

My uncle?… Had he taken the deal he would've made some money…..

If we would have been offered a deal like that, we woulda jumped on it! But sadly, no offer, other than give it to us, and trust us.

Originally Posted by reverbbb

But the "big two" may not be the ones that needed this concept as much as some other innovative makers (hint, hint).

Sadly, the smaller companies wouldnt even go as far as the big two. All of our discussions came abruptly to the statement: Sorry, not interested. clic.

So, we knew a good Idea is going to set on a shelf, until the time expires, and the big fish that swim in the ocean gobble it up, or it never see's the light of day. Oh well, it happens.

I just cant beleive that the only offer we got was so outrageous (give it to us, and trust us). I guess it must work for them: probably relying on ole PT Barnum's axium, "There is a sucker born every minute!"

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Will V.

Wow, that was not a bad deal at all. Very good, I would say.

In my opinion, it was a great deal!!!! He wasn't risking any money at all and this company was big enough to take the financial risk with no sweet. I tried to convince him to take it, plus the job, but he was too proud. In his opinion, he worked very hard in the invention and he wouldn't let anyone profit from it but him…In principle I can't disagree but in the real world that doesn't work.
He's a very smart guy (he owns several patents) but he didn't understand business. I'm not a business person myself, but I can understand that a good idea without the resources to develop isn't going anywhere…

[Teleologist]

I don't think it was ever marketed, but Rickenbacker developed a prototype with interchangeable snap-in pickups/controls! I seem to remember it was John Hall's idea when he first went to work for his dad. Anyone who's interested could probably ask him what happened with it on the Ric forum.

Another thing Ric does on one of their guitars(Glen Frey model???) is mount the pickups from the rear. The holes are routed right thru and the adjustment screws are back there too. AFAIK the wires are still soldered and it wouldn't work on a trem guitar, but with that setup and some gold leaf contacts you could swap PUPs without messing with the strings. ;)

Oh.... and... guitars are soldered 'cause guitar players don't know how to weld very well ;) :) :)

[teleinMI]

Originally Posted by reverbbb

...
The reason I ask, is that seems to be one of the limiting factors for changing pups on the fly. I read somewhere that someone had a store and he developed a pup system for demo'ing various pups into a guitar without having to unsolder everything. Wouldn't that be cool to have on your performance guitar? ...

Like these things?

http://www.mercurioguitars.com/live/...paks_more.aspx

...Kinda like hot-swapable hard drives!