Welding

[telekafunkle]

Haha, well, this is an "OFF TOPIC" dicussion, but yet I still seem almost everything to still do with guitars (well duh! its a telecaster/guitar forum, and I think by "off-topic" they mean "other", as in not being able to find the exact categorie, but meh), so I hope I am not going TOO off topic here...

So, school sucks, I LITERALLY DISPISE it in EVERY way, except for 1: Sop classes! So, between the Auto, Woodshop, and Manufacturing, we have everything...Heck, Manufacturing alone has Mig-Welders, Arc-Welding, Tig-Wedlers, Blacksmith Anvols, Blacksmith Forge, about 7 Welding stations, hammers, ladders, round bar, flat bar (of EVERY sizes), and next to it a ware-house full of basically industrial machinery...EVERYTHING!!! Auto has obviously the cars to work on, and woodshop...Well, its pretty obvious.


So, I am using the welders...MIG is the welder I am using...Just wondering for any welders out there if you have any tips, any "cool things" to do/make/practise doing, just basically this is a general welding thing.


Thanks!

[otterhound]

Learn how to stick weld so that you will know how . A different breed from MIG . If you ever need to weld in a stiff breeze or wind , you're MIG will be a flop . Stick gives better penetration and has no shielding gasses to blow away . MIG welders have made "welders" out of many that never could have welded before . Press the button and go . In fact , master the welding torch if you truly have the desire . Just because it is easy , doesn't make it good . When you know torch and stick , then move to TIG . You're in school and likely have all of the tools at your disposal , use them .

[Strat62]

Are you a gearhead? Install a rollcage in your car. That'll give you all the experience you need. Stick weld and mild steel for the demo derby, Mig and mild steel for circle track and drag racing, Tig and chrome moly for the high-end stuff.

[Eric Karonen]

Well, I was welder in my youth. I've welded every metal you can think of ... from mild steel to titanium. Worked on jet engines to pipe lines.

TIG was my favourite ... tiny welds in the day. MIG ... well I never got used to the wire feed.

[Clive Hugh]

Originally Posted by Eric Karonen

Well, I was welder in my youth. I've welded every metal you can think of ... from mild steel to titanium. Worked on jet engines to pipe lines.

TIG was my favourite ... tiny welds in the day. MIG ... well I never got used to the wire feed.

Gotta agree with your mig comments, I teach welding to apprentices at a tech college ,I dislike mig because I mistrust it. I was once in a 6.7 earthquake and quite a few buildings that had been mig welded tore out the welds but the stick ones even though they were twisted had not let go. I still have that in the back of my mind.
Clive

[64Strat]

MIG is essentially an electric "glue" gun for metal. I agree wit the others, learn TIG first.

[Joe-Bob]

Learn to weld with a torch first. This is where you will need finesse. Practice welding cotter keys together. Learn to braze with silicon-bronze rod, the coated kind-otherwise how learn to use borax. Learn how to weld aluminum with a torch--don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.

Learn to use a cutting torch well.

Learn to use a grinder well.

TIG welding is the most natural of the electric techniques to me, and my personal favorite. It's just like using an electric torch, only different. It's faster. This is where knowing how to use a torch will come in handy.

MIG seems better suited to welding large pieces to me.

I've built exhaust headers without using any welding rod. They look great, but have to be fitted perfectly.

[Lost_N_Austin]

Try and learn from someone who knows what they are doing. Diving right in is fun but learning to weld correctly is just as easy as learning bad habits.

Welding is like painting in some ways, the end result is best when the preparation is done well. Spend the time to make things fit and prep the surfaces to be welded. Welding metal that is coated with anti-rust protectant will not give you the same result that a clean metal surface will.

Be very careful when welding coated pipe or anything galvanized. The fumes are hazardous (even dangerous). Read why here http://www.sperkoengineering.com/htm...Galvanized.pdf

Wear protective clothing on your chest and arms as well as gloves. Its not just the heat but the radiation as well. You can get "sunburned through your clothing.

Don't weld in sandals or thongs (you know the flip flop kind).

Lost_N_Austin

[Eric Karonen]

Originally Posted by Lost_N_Austin

Try and learn from someone who knows what they are doing. Diving right in is fun but learning to weld correctly is just as easy as learning bad habits.

Welding is like painting in some ways, the end result is best when the preparation is done well. Spend the time to make things fit and prep the surfaces to be welded. Welding metal that is coated with anti-rust protectant will not give you the same result that a clean metal surface will.

Be very careful when welding coated pipe or anything galvanized. The fumes are hazardous (even dangerous). Read why here http://www.sperkoengineering.com/htm...Galvanized.pdf

Wear protective clothing on your chest and arms as well as gloves. Its not just the heat but the radiation as well. You can get "sunburned through your clothing.

Don't weld in sandals or thongs (you know the flip flop kind).

Lost_N_Austin

The sparks were something else when I was learning arc welding .. overhead was the worst!. I have a lot of pot holes around my belt line. My first lessons were with convicts. They'd bus them in for each class. I loved those guys ... so many years ago! All minor crimes.

But then I got into the nittiy-gritty, and speciaziled in exotic metals. Titanium goes magnetic when it goes molten ... boy, that's fun to keep your rod and reel being sucked into the juice!

And then there's the slag, eh? Chip, chip!

I don't talk much about my welding days, nobody relates to it, but ... it's cool to hear about!

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by Lost_N_Austin

Wear protective clothing on your chest and arms as well as gloves. Its not just the heat but the radiation as well. You can get "sunburned through your clothing.

Well, of course, you need the right stuff. Get your own goggles and helmet, deerskin gauntlet gloves and a green canvas welding jacket.

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by Lost_N_Austin

Be very careful when welding coated pipe or anything galvanized. The fumes are hazardous (even dangerous). Read why here http://www.sperkoengineering.com/htm...Galvanized.pdf

Wear protective clothing on your chest and arms as well as gloves. Its not just the heat but the radiation as well. You can get "sunburned through your clothing.

Don't weld in sandals or thongs (you know the flip flop kind).

Lost_N_Austin

+1 on being careful. This coming from the man who set his pants on fire last summer while doing overheads underneath a tractor. Fire extinguishers are your friend.

I'm a fair stick welder, though my overheads look like a goose pooped across the metal, and I can braze alright if I have to. I never really got the hang of wirefeeds, though.

If you're looking for a good guitar oriented welding project, get some exhaust pipe and build yourself a multi-guitar stand. Quite a few designs out there and they work really well.

Justin

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by Eric Karonen

But then I got into the nittiy-gritty, and speciaziled in exotic metals. Titanium goes magnetic when it goes molten ... boy, that's fun to keep your rod and reel being sucked into the juice!

Does the titanium remain magnetic after it cools?

We've got some magnetic holders to keep things in place while you're trying to tack them together, and they work all right provided they aren't too near the arc. But if the magnet is too close, I know just what you mean. Your arc curves off like a cyclone and the only thing that gets hot is your temper! <G>

[Eric Karonen]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

Does the titanium remain magnetic after it cools?

We've got some magnetic holders to keep things in place while you're trying to tack them together, and they work all right provided they aren't too near the arc. But if the magnet is too close, I know just what you mean. Your arc curves off like a cyclone and the only thing that gets hot is your temper! <G>

Nope! It's one wooky metal. Otherwise it was just like any other metal. The titanium I welded was for hooks ... for acid baths .. that sort of thing .. and it was only once in a while. I welded gold at one time too! But titanium, once molten, became a different animal. Really weird! I found aluminum to be so too, but it was easy to work with, and stainless steel.

I'm out of touch with welding, but I imagine they have a rod for every metal now. I used to like oxy-acetelene stuff. Made a few sculptures in the day. Really liked cutting sheet iron or I bar ... making those sparks fly! hehe

[dented]

Son of a premier welder, started when I was 12. One tip, never have any loose hems or strings hanging from the cuffs of your pants. They act like a fuse. Grew up with a Hobart on a trailer in the driveway. Myself, used it mostly on my 68 Hemi Roadrunner and my 69 Z28. Make sure the oxy-acetylene tanks are secured all the time. Don't roll them on their edges, use a cart.

[brokenjoe]

Rule #1, that was drilled into my head over and over:

TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR WORK!!!

In my younger years, I apprenticed as a welder. Did it all, got my 'ticket', but then I bought a guitar.......

Learn it all. You'll never know what you're gonna come up against on a job. Unless you're doing straight fabrication work -on site, highrises, pipe welding- it comes in handy to know as much as you possibly can.

Like Joe-Bob says, learn how to cut. I always found that breaking things down was as much fun as putting things together.

I trained, and learned the basics with a torch. Oxy-acetylene. It's the easiest to master, but also the easiest to screw up. Gives you a good intuitive sense of how metals heat, warp, and how combined gasses work.

Here's a fun one: Start your weld, or cut, and get things flowing good. Turn off the gas, and see if you can keep your weld going with just the oxygen!!! Not for the feint of heart!

Learn your verticals, and overheads. Master those, and you can call yourself a welder. Not only that, you'll get a lot of respect from your co-workers. Plus, chicks love a great overhead welder! ;-)

I was taught, and still believe, that a good weld should be, and is, the strongest part of any job. The tensile strength of a good weld should exceed the ultimate strength of the metals being worked upon.

......man, I miss those days........

[mcgeorgerl]

Learn GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding or TIG). There are a couple of techniques to learn. Daubbing and "Walking the Cup". In some places, "Walking the Cup" is the only approved procedure.

Learn SMAW (Shielded Metal Arc Welding or Stick). When you get to the larger rods and higher amps you can lay down a lot of metal quickly.

Learn how to use the oxy-acetylene torch to cut and heat.

Learn how to properly prepare the metals for welding (Cleaning and fitting). If anybody tells you you don't need to clean the metal and that the heat will "burn the impurities off"... well, find a new instructor.

Learn how to fit parts so that the inevitable movement during heating/cooling can be allowed for.

Learn how to weld carbon steel, stainless steel and aluminum. They're all different.

Learn how to weld pipe. Lot's of folks get qualified on plate but never can pass pipe.

Most importantly, learn that when you do overhead welding with 6010/7018 rods, turn your welding hat so it covers your ear. Theres nothing like big gob of spatter rolling down your ear hole sizzling in the wax to wake you up in the morning.

[JCSouthpawtele]

Over the years at my day job I have welded MIG and TIG.
With MIG -gas, wire speed and the voltage(heat) setting can be totally different depending on the thickness of the steel. Sheet metal work is best by learning how to tack it off to make sure your "Square" and set it in place. Then doing a "stitch" weld to keep the sheet metal from getting too hot and warping. Tubings need a certain amount of heat to penetrate the wall thickness for strength. Watch out for working with Galvinized as it is toxic. It is zinc poisoning. Wear a resperater mask and drink milk so the calcium and vitamins counter act any zinc exposure. just a few things to remember. TIG welding is as easy as soldering to me after I got that down. Again speed a steady hand is key.

[telekafunkle]

Oh, everyone, trust me, safety is not an issue...I am dressed in the "canvas" suits, in the "deer skin" gloves, and a FULL PROPER welding helmet...Trust me, the school does EVERYTHING in their power to make sure NOTHING happens...Trust me, even the forms you have to fill out does not rid the school-board of the problems...We go through a safety test (you HAVE to get 100% or you fail...Seriously, not even 99.99999%), you HAVE to watch the teacher, you HAVE to practice with him, you HAVE to do a demo for him, you HAVE to be supervised, and you HAVE to be fit to do it on your own (in that order). Trust me, saftery it noooo issue, :P.


Also, the metals we use are just steel flat-bar...Nothing special...TIG Welders are allowed for different metals, but we have not to much need for them...I agree though, MIG welding is almost just using a hot glue-gun...It is VERY easy to use, but however, its VERY easy to mess up...In my opinion (because I don't have much experience with other welders), its actually harder than it looks (to the beginner, like myself)...If you stop, you end your "bead" and I think you welders know what happens from there...I can do a pretty good "bead", but I have seen SO many kids click and then un-click the button about 500 times a second: Thus giving you: DOTS! Little spikes and dots all over, oh my g**, it makes me VERY mad to see it...


I am going to try and take a stab at the "TIG", see what happens. I understand its QUITE different, as its more like soldering (you hold the welder, but the..."weld?" and move along slowly, and its MUCH more percise and accurate), in the sense that you are holding 1 thing and another (someone compared MIG to a glue gun...A soldering iron you hold the "gun" and hold the "solder").


So, tips on TIG is good, and I will see how it goes...Also, the helmet requires a 12 (if I didn't already say that), so I am a bit...Nervous?

Thanks.

[casterway]

Wear a respirator.

[sultan59]

Cover your ears when welding overhead. Nothing hurts as special as a spark on your eardrum.

[Eric Karonen]

Cool thread! I never thought I'd talk welding again in my life ... and I'm out of touch with whatever is happening re technology. I welded CF100 engines at one time - all stainless .. but we could never get them right due to metal fatigue .. they never passed a test. And we had to personally pass a welding test every six months to prove we could do the job.

Glad to hear I'm not the only old welder around!

Oh, Lord, those leather jackets and hats for horizontal and overhead welding of mild steel. I felt like I put on a hundred pounds.

And the bead work ... layer upon layer when building up a v-groove.

[david_lewis93]

AnD dont forget to protect your EYES!! notning on earth hurts worse than having your eyes burnt from welding.(old school fab welder here Lincoln 9000 deisel)NRC certified on plate at onetim back in the day.

bend em tight and let er scream.

[StuH]

Don't know Jack about welding but gotta say I always repsected those guys in the shop doing bucket rebuilds on loaders and scoop trams; and box rebuilds on haul trucks.

Always looked to me like they were very patient and most had a real good sense of humour.

[Mike Bruce]

A kid I know is an apprentice welder and he's doing artistic stuff like garden gates, light fixtures, hat stands, candle holders, and stuff. Trailers, hitches, and farm machinery may pay the bills, but the art stuff pays the soul.

There used to be an older gentleman up the highway from me who did custom small trailers, from utility trailers to campers. His work combined function with art. Lots of curves, logos, etc. His shop is closed now so I suppose he retired.

I was just learning to weld 25 years ago when my job changed and I never again picked up a torch. I'd have to start from scratch again. My town is full of unemployed welders anyway with the recent closing of a large machine plant.

Peace, Mike.

[Eric Karonen]

Originally Posted by david_lewis93

AnD dont forget to protect your EYES!! notning on earth hurts worse than having your eyes burnt from welding.(old school fab welder here Lincoln 9000 deisel)NRC certified on plate at onetim back in the day.

bend em tight and let er scream.

Lincoln is one of the great American company stories.

[sultan59]

Turn and burn, brothers of the blue light, unite! A$$holes and elbows, get that welder's hood down.

Shoulder to the holder, Goldenarm!

Crack of dawn to a broken heart, if I can step over it, I can weld it.

Welders do it hotter in all positions.

I welded pipe professionally for 30 years all over the west, from the Gulf of Mexico to the Arctic Ocean, MIG, TIG, Stick and Sub Arc, but I think I'm just about all used up these days. Welding is a young man's game.

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by telekafunkle

I am going to try and take a stab at the "TIG", see what happens. I understand its QUITE different, as its more like soldering (you hold the welder, but the..."weld?" and move along slowly, and its MUCH more percise and accurate), in the sense that you are holding 1 thing and another (someone compared MIG to a glue gun...A soldering iron you hold the "gun" and hold the "solder").

If you can use a torch with a small flame well, then a TIG will come naturally. Yes, you need an 11 or 12 lens. I learned without an automatic helmet...you have to get set and then close your helmet without moving; that was the hardest part! Make sure to keep your electrode sharp...and yes the 4% thorium ones are slightly radioactive.

[Eric Karonen]

Originally Posted by sultan59

Turn and burn, brothers of the blue light, unite! A$$holes and elbows, get that welder's hood down.

Shoulder to the holder, Goldenarm!

Crack of dawn to a broken heart, if I can step over it, I can weld it.

Welders do it hotter in all positions.

I welded pipe professionally for 30 years all over the west, from the Gulf of Mexico to the Arctic Ocean, MIG, TIG, Stick and Sub Arc, but I think I'm just about all used up these days. Welding is a young man's game.

Aye! A good eye and and steady hand.

I was thinking deep sea at one time, but I hated oceans except to look at ... above water! hehe

[s-lafleur]

Learn how to fillet braze then you can restore British race cars and motorcycles or build bicycles.

[Justinvs]

Originally Posted by david_lewis93

AnD dont forget to protect your EYES!! notning on earth hurts worse than having your eyes burnt from welding.(old school fab welder here Lincoln 9000 deisel)NRC certified on plate at onetim back in the day.

bend em tight and let er scream.

In high school welding class, we were all going back and forth to our booths when suddenly we see another kid go streaking off toward the bathroom, howling and swearing. He'd been chipping off a bead and a piece of slg slipped through a hole in his coveralls and then burned through his levis, landing on a rather strategic region behind his zipper.

Needless to say, the next class he had new coveralls on!

[telekafunkle]

Originally Posted by Justinvs

In high school welding class, we were all going back and forth to our booths when suddenly we see another kid go streaking off toward the bathroom, howling and swearing. He'd been chipping off a bead and a piece of slg slipped through a hole in his coveralls and then burned through his levis, landing on a rather strategic region behind his zipper.

Needless to say, the next class he had new coveralls on!

LOL!!!

I would like to say thanks to everyone, I am glad I "reunited" with the opening of welding, and I must say, EVERYONE here just opened my eyes (and closed my zipper) to welding! So many typed of welds...

Also, yes, face-masks are covering FULL, ears, front, EVERYTHING!

Bad stroies? Well, I assume everyone has heard of flash, right? Well, you look at the light close enough, feels like someone through sand in your eyes for upto 5 weeks! Yikes!


No worries, everything is going to be fine for safety I think, like I said, teachers do EVERYTHING in their power to ensure safety.



Thanks everyone, keep the thread going! I am liking this!

[JCSouthpawtele]

Originally Posted by sultan59

Cover your ears when welding overhead. Nothing hurts as special as a spark on your eardrum.

Or a weld BB in your ear cannal!