Power trio playing - any tips??

[Del Pickup]

I've been thinking that it might be interesting to set up a simple power trio to see how it might make me play differently. I've always been in bands where there's been 2 guitars or keyboards to support the song during any solos.

Obviously it means more rhythm playing to flesh out the sound and maybe more double stops and simple short solos (I'm no Hendrix or SRV!!) but also means that the bass has to be covering the rhythm guitar part during any solos.

Any other tips on doing this well??

[StuH]

Nothing wrong with using a synth to fill the void on occasion. Rush does this pretty effectively.

[marshman]

When I play bass in trios, I focus on this:

I'm gonna need 'somethin' extra' to fill out the space when the leads come in. Occasionally, there are tunes where that won't be necessary, but it typically is. Sometimes that means coming up with extra stuff to do during solos, but sometimes it means paring down the bassline during the vocals, so you'll have that extra 'full blown' line when you need it.

It helps a little if you can get the drummer thinking along the same lines--keep it real simple until the guitar steps out, THEN channel your Ginger.

[tboy]

My regular band is guitar, bass, drums. The formula that seems to work well for us is a solid, simple bass & drums, and guitar busy as heck with both the chording and solo lines.

And... Everybody sings something on almost every song.

[jimbach]

Two things that helped me when I was the only guitar player in a trio:

1. Use a guitar with humbuckers for a thicker sound.
2. Use delay more frequently than normal.

[Tdub]

Don't be afraid of the space in a power trio format. Not every second needs to be filled. It helps to play with a great drummer and bass player.

[refin]

Leave some holes-------there's a lot of music in silence.

[Faraldi]

Wow these are all great responses. I agree across the board.

I've been in a trio for a few years now (unfortunately we're disbanding because I'm moving back to NJ) and our sound has been very unique. Powerful rock that has great definition because there's less going on.

Sure, we tried to add a second guitar but it changed the whole dynamic so we stayed where we were.

As for solos and drop outs, yes some songs sounded better with more of a melodic picking rather than a straight solo. Others, it made perfect sense to hear the solo out there "by itself" over the bass and drums.

I started using more delay later in the game and it's amazing what can be done because of it. In fact I started writing songs around the dotted eighth delay setting. Lots can be done.

Good luck

[oldmark]

play a lot of passing tones using chords or partial chords instead of single notes. You can get a near jazz sound if you want, but VanHalen does this a lot, too - depends on what kind of music you play.
I had a hard time finding anyone to jam with and taught myself to play this way to compensate.

Also helps to play with a recorded bass track, especially if you can recorded your playing - you can hear how you sound, fill in the holes or not as you want.

Enjoy - you WILL learn a lot of neat tricks and a lot about the guitar in general.

mark

[tpaul]

Flail around and windmill a lot. Smash things.

Seriously... use some overdrive to thicken your sound. Try to avoid long single-note riffs on solos; practice some Chuck Berry (lots of double- and triple-stops, and seamless switching between rhythm and lead). Bassists can play chords too, you know.

[HenryAdams]

I, too, am curious to hear what people have to say. My two favorite Power Duos (The Black Keys and the White Stripes) seem to have one thing in common to keep things sounding full: A Big Muff Pi.

[fendorst]

A chorus pedal helps thicken/spread the sound. A little goes a long way in a trio, you don't want it to be an obvious effect. If you gig out and can afford two small amps, put one stage left and one stage right. Use a subtle stereo chorus for a nice lush full sound for rhythm work whether playing clean or crunchy. Of course, if the soundman mics only one amp, the audience won't hear what you hear on stage. Even if you use only one amp, subtle chorus helps fill out the band sound.

Most important: Choice of material. Don't know whether you intend to play cover tunes or original material. Either way, choose or write material that lends itself to trio playing to begin with. Songs that rely on multiple layered guitar parts, horns, keyboards, synths etc. are going to be real tough to put across in a trio unless you're shooting for a radical original re-interpretation of the material. That can be fine as long as you really re-interpret the song as a stripped-down trio arrangement and don't expect to replicate all the extra guitar/horn/keyboard/synth parts.

[boneyguy]

First and foremost, bass and drums have to be telepathically tight. This is the foundation for it to work in my opinion.

That allows the guitar player to relax and not have to overplay and feel like you've got to fill up every space with guitar noise.

In my brief trio experiences, once you get the hang of it (if the bass and drums are solid and really groovin') it's actually amazing how little guitar playing you can get away with and still have a big full, driving sound.

[jazztele]

Originally Posted by Tdub

Don't be afraid of the space in a power trio format. Not every second needs to be filled. It helps to play with a great drummer and bass player.

i agree (and with the others who said something like this)

i did play in a rock-ish guitar/bass/drums trio in college (sounded a little like sonic youth, but cleaner, and it would swing occasionally) and i had a lot of luck with this tuning: CGDGBB. I would do a lot of simple lead stuff on the top two strings, which were tuned in unison, which made single note lines sound a lot bigger...that probably doesn't help you much, but i'll throw it out there if anyone wants to experiment...

[Mike Eskimo]

Pete Townsend and Sleater-Kinney


Those are my two tips.



Both bands had/have very dynamic drummers.



It's a must.



Watch some Sleater-Kinney clips to see what they did.



The Who is pretty self-explanantory but may seem a bit harder to pull off because really - how many of us could be Pete Townsend ?

[Crawfish]

Originally Posted by Mike Eskimo

Pete Townsend and Sleater-Kinney


Those are my two tips.



Both bands had/have very dynamic drummers.



It's a must.



Watch some Sleater-Kinney clips to see what they did.



The Who is pretty self-explanantory but may seem a bit harder to pull off because really - how many of us could be Pete Townsend ?

How many could be John Entwistle?

-Kevin

[Tele295]

The 2 things I've found in playing with that format are:

1. Use a big fat sound or a lot of delay (as mentioned above)

2. Play LESS rhythm. That may sound counter-intuitive, but it's easier to make your rhythm part smaller than your solo sound bigger. If you are playing smaller chord partials, double stops, or even little single note figures as rhythm, then it doesn't seem so "empty" when you step out for a solo. Single note solos after losing big six string chords sounds weak and thin - not what you want when you step out for the ride. It's all in how the audience perceives the continuity of the sound.

[Tele295]

Tip #3 - dump the bass player and get a Hammond Organ player - double manuals + bass pedals. That's how they got rid of the big horn sections in the 50's!

[Del Pickup]

Good tips here, guys. Thanks.

I was watching a dvd of Free last night. Although they had Paul Rodgers up front that band was essentially a trio. I was listening carefully to what they were doing and many of the suggestions made above could be heard in their live playing.

My initial thoughts are to use my Clapton strat more and use the mid boost to thicken the tone up and also use more of my pedals for any solos - delay, tremolo and phaser. And probably use more of my OD pedal as well.

[Ben Harmless]

As a strategy, don't think of the trio as missing anything. I never got why people think that a band needs to have two guitars, or a keyboard player to sound big. Some of the best bands I've ever seen have been trios, and I never thought there was anything missing. They didn't use chorus or delay to "make up" for anything. There wasn't anything to be made up for. Do string quartets need to use fancy effects to make up for the lack of guitar players? Should Yo-Yo Ma ad some keys to thicken up the sound?

The trio format is perfect for allowing bass players and drummers to be musicians instead of telling them to shut up and underplay so that the guitarist(s) can show off - which seems to be the popular thing these days. Perish the thought of a bassist or drummer actually contributing something other than a solid beat...

[Maggot]

There are no real rules for the power trio format. Different bands deal with their limitations in different ways. I've found that if the drums and bass get the vibe nicely, I don't care if the solo sounds thin. It's just part of the sound.

Here are some great power trios (and power trios + singer) and their strategies.

Wire: Unique song structures. Pre-meditation and deliberation.
Ramones: Great downstroking techniqes & pop smarts.
Cream: Crunchy, busy bass and drums.
Jimi Hendrix Experience: Extreme volume, guitar adding basslines and countermelodies.
Meat Puppets: Speedy guitar and rollicking or loping beats.
Police: Cool arpeggiated & effected guitar w/ solid bass and busy drums.
Led Zeppelin: Everything almost all the time, but almost nothing some of the time.
The Who: Whisper-to-scream dynamics. Insane drummer and bass player
Black Sabbath: Tune down to C# and play distorted (but swinging) unison riffs.
Joy Division: Amateurishly played guitar melodies over busy drums and flatpicked bass.
Husker Du: Screaming over loud dense guitar.
Sleater Kinney: 2 guitars and busy drums.
Big Star: Skinny, sparse Strat sounds, big grooving bass and drums.
Green Day: Extreme punctuality with everyone doing their part.

You can strip a trio way, way down and try to get the audience to hang on your every word or note or crank up and be louder and insaner than any quartet. The one thing that all the great trios have in common is that they have a more intuitive sound than larger bands because they are able to listen to each other better.

One thing all these bands (except the Ramones) had in common - the guitar player knew his or her way around an arpeggio.