philadelphia eagles fans?

[dburns]

Just wondering if there's any other tele-lovin eagles fans out there who are sick of McNabb. I think he's awful. Anyone agree? Disagree? (wow, how could you) My guess is that people from other cities with bad teams ie. Buffalo, Cleveland, KC, may defend him...but anyone who watches the birds EVERY WEEK should know better. Not just reacting to one loss, I've been sayin this for some time now. Just having a lazy day off, wanted to vent on how I think he stinks, and see what fellow fans think.

[neocaster]

I'd give McNabb another season, even if it's just to give his replacement a year to burn in. I think it's Andy Reid who should've worn out his welcome.

[mickeydean]

i have been sick of him for years.

i am REALLY sick of TV commentators telling me that i don't appreciate having a QB like McNabb enough.

they haven't had to watch him throw balls into the ground every week for 11 years.

that goes double for the fat man. RUN THE DAMN BALL ANDY!

Kolb is gonna be GREAT. he can actually run andy's All Pass Offense.

[FMA]

We Iggles fans like to bash Donovan, and he has thrown some bad passes this year, but I think most of the blame can be laid at the feet of Andy Reid.

Watching games, sometimes, I wonder what the hell he's doing. I mean, is that a Waffle House menu he's holding on the sideline. His play calling is sometimes incomprehensible. He throws Vick in there to do, what? I have no idea what he plans to do with the guy. I have no idea why they even signed him. If the Iggles wanted to waste a million bucks, or $1.6 million, they could have just sent it to me.

McCoy has been good, but he's still a rookie and the fact that the team has not developed anyone to back up Westbrook, who hasn't played a complete season in recent memory, is unfathomable. The offensive line is offensive. The defense is good, but thin at linebacker and I'm still puzzled why they cut Dawk loose. Last I checked, Dawk is playing pretty well in Denver. If it was a money issue, they could have given the cash they blew on Vick.

Still, all of that considered, I think the team can make a run here. It's not a complete disaster, yet. It's just maddening that a team that can lose to the Raiders can stomp the Giants and then turn around a look listless against the Cowboys.

They have improved in a lot of areas. That Jackson kid is pretty good. Maclin looks good. Jason Avant, I think, is way underused. Celek is having a breakout year.

I think it can be fixed.

But short answer, I don't think you can lay all of the Iggles woes on Donovan.
I think more blame goes to Andy. he may not be Dick Vermeil, but on the bright side, he's no Rich Kotite. Or Marion Campbell.

I could go on...Wait, I already have.

[mickeydean]

Originally Posted by FMA

We Iggles fans like to bash Donovan, and he has thrown some bad passes this year, but I think most of the blame can be laid at the feet of Andy Reid.

Watching games, sometimes, I wonder what the hell he's doing. I mean, is that a Waffle House menu he's holding on the sideline. His play calling is sometimes incomprehensible. He throws Vick in there to do, what? I have no idea what he plans to do with the guy. I have no idea why they even signed him. If the Iggles wanted to waste a million bucks, or $1.6 million, they could have just sent it to me.

McCoy has been good, but he's still a rookie and the fact that the team has not developed anyone to back up Westbrook, who hasn't played a complete season in recent memory, is unfathomable. The offensive line is offensive. The defense is good, but thin at linebacker and I'm still puzzled why they cut Dawk loose. Last I checked, Dawk is playing pretty well in Denver. If it was a money issue, they could have given the cash they blew on Vick.

Still, all of that considered, I think the team can make a run here. It's not a complete disaster, yet. It's just maddening that a team that can lose to the Raiders can stomp the Giants and then turn around a look listless against the Cowboys.

They have improved in a lot of areas. That Jackson kid is pretty good. Maclin looks good. Jason Avant, I think, is way underused. Celek is having a breakout year.

I think it can be fixed.

But short answer, I don't think you can lay all of the Iggles woes on Donovan.
I think more blame goes to Andy. he may not be Dick Vermeil, but on the bright side, he's no Rich Kotite. Or Marion Campbell.

I could go on...Wait, I already have.

there was an interesting stat during the cowgirls game. westbrook has never played a full season in his whole career! imo celek should be headed to the first of many pro bowls. he reminds me of Mark Bavaro.

[jwmccain]

Originally Posted by mickeydean

there was an interesting stat during the cowgirls game.

Who won that game?

[tcadam]

I'm tired of both McNabb and Reid. I don't want to waste anymore Sundays watching them repeat the same mistakes they've been making for years (e.g. it's a good idea to save some times-out for the end of the game). I know there's been some success but how many times can you watch the same predictable season happen time after time?

An interesting stat floating around this week is that they are 1-8-1 in games decided by seven points or less in the last two years. If they're behind in the fourth quarter you might as well shut it off because they're not going to win.

[mickeydean]

Originally Posted by jwmccain

Who won that game?

it never fails.

last year your team comes into philly last game of the season. winner goes playoffs loser goes home.

you lost 40 - 6.

did you post then?

[dburns]

my main issue with Mcnabb is his performance in the clutch. he's awful. his overall stats are misleading, they're usually decent, but he can't lead a TD drive in the 4th quarter when it counts. i'm sure philly fans know this stat by now...eagles have lost 11 straight when trailing at some point in the 4th quarter. also a ridiculously poor record in games decided by 7 or less. at some point it has to be realized that the QB is a huge part of this. tired of his lackluster demeanor on the sidelines, balls in the ground, etc. since he's lost the ability/desire to run he's been average at best. the weapons are there, no more excuses should be made. other qb's in the league can play poorly for most of the game but still bounce back and lead that game winning drive. with the eagles, any small deficit in the 4th quarter feels more like 20+ points. hope he's not back next year. i'm done with reid too...i just don't see him going anywhere unfortunately. also, i would like to see how kolb does for a season or two without changing the current system. i know they have other issues (o-line, linebacker injuries,etc), and who knows that kolb is the answer,.... but after 10yrs its easy for me to see that #5 is NOT

[jwmccain]

Originally Posted by mickeydean

did you post then?

Follow my example - LOL!

[marshman]

I've lamented Reids' coahing skills for several years now (throwing 6 yard passes over the middle with 3 minutes to go down 2 scores??? Are you playing the same game I'm watching, Andy?) and though I don't mind McNabb that much, I was just tired of the reciever corps bearing the brunt of the lack of success--if an Eagle rec'r can catch a ball IN STRIDE, as opposed to 12 feet in the air, off his shoe laces, or 3 feet behind him, they've always been good.

I totally gave up on football when the Birds signed Vick, haven't watched a game all season.

[RiverDog]

Huge fan here. It's tough to hate on the guy when I think of all the horrible QBs we had before he was drafted. But yeah it's been what, 11 seasons and where are we? He's very talented but like some of you guys say, he can't do it when the heat is really on.

I'm not sure about Kolb either. He had two great games but is that enough to really tell? I guess it wouldn't hurt to give him a chance and find out.

As far as Vick goes, they're never really going to use him. They just gave him a spot on the roster because mcNabb is his buddy and he wanted to help Vick out. I'm sure they will trade him after the season.

[mickeydean]

sometimes i think vick is on the roster out of some weird redemption thing andy has got going because he failed so miserably with his kids.

so he gets to use MY football team to work out his personal issues.

does it look like Vick can contribute as a player or that he earned his roster spot?

[RiverDog]

Originally Posted by mickeydean

sometimes i think vick is on the roster out of some weird redemption thing andy has got going because he failed so miserably with his kids.

so he gets to use MY football team to work out his personal issues.

does it look like Vick can contribute as a player or that he earned his roster spot?

So far I don't see it personally, but wouldn't we have to see him start or at least have a way bigger role in order to find out? I doubt that's ever going to happen.

[dburns]

Originally Posted by RiverDog

Huge fan here. It's tough to hate on the guy when I think of all the horrible QBs we had before he was drafted. But yeah it's been what, 11 seasons and where are we? He's very talented but like some of you guys say, he can't do it when the heat is really on.

I'm not sure about Kolb either. He had two great games but is that enough to really tell? I guess it wouldn't hurt to give him a chance and find out.

As far as Vick goes, they're never really going to use him. They just gave him a spot on the roster because mcNabb is his buddy and he wanted to help Vick out. I'm sure they will trade him after the season.

you're right about the scrubs we've had before...but 11 years of almost getting there is worse to me. mcnabb at qb is like going to the prom with the hottest chick in the school that never ever puts out. the ultimate tease.

maybe kolb is the chunky girl who will.

[emu!]

I remember about 10 years ago, when all the football "experts" thought that the running quarterback was going to change the game. McNabb, Culpepper, and Vick were all running quarterbacks in college. None of them could run the ball in the NFL like they could in NCAA. It must be a whole different game in the pros. The defenses must be quicker. Only McNabb came close to winning it all.

[dented]

I am an Eagles fan. I am a McNabb fan. But it has not worked. They have come close and they play a respectable brand of football consistently now for the years McNabb and Reid have been there. The statistics are great for McNabb, probably finish in the top 20 all time for QB's. None of it translates into SB victories. Make the change when his contract allows and take a long look at a new coach.

Even great systems need to make changes to keep on top.

[FMA]

See, here's the problem: We don't recall the games where McNabb is firing on all cylinders, which he has had and is a thing of beauty. We all recall the games where he throws every other pass at the receiver's feet and takes sacks after having 10 years to throw the ball.
There is a good and bad with Donovan. Don't forget, though, he got the Iggles to the NFC championship game -- what is it? -- five times. Sure, we won only one of those and then, lost the Supe because, well, McNabb yakked it up.
But again, I'd still take McNabb over a lot of quarterbacks starting in the NFL. I mean, would you rather have McNabb or Derek Anderson. I know that's not a legit choice as the choice is now between McNabb and Kolb. And yes, Kolb had a couple of good games. But he doesn't have the kind of consistent record that McNabb has, inconsistent as it is.
Boy, I'm really tying myself in knots here. Sometimes I hate being a Philly fan. We know only rationalization and heartbreak...

[mickeydean]

Originally Posted by FMA

See, here's the problem: We don't recall the games where McNabb is firing on all cylinders, which he has had and is a thing of beauty. We all recall the games where he throws every other pass at the receiver's feet and takes sacks after having 10 years to throw the ball.
There is a good and bad with Donovan. Don't forget, though, he got the Iggles to the NFC championship game -- what is it? -- five times. Sure, we won only one of those and then, lost the Supe because, well, McNabb yakked it up.
But again, I'd still take McNabb over a lot of quarterbacks starting in the NFL. I mean, would you rather have McNabb or Derek Anderson. I know that's not a legit choice as the choice is now between McNabb and Kolb. And yes, Kolb had a couple of good games. But he doesn't have the kind of consistent record that McNabb has, inconsistent as it is.
Boy, I'm really tying myself in knots here. Sometimes I hate being a Philly fan. We know only rationalization and heartbreak...

true on all counts.

Feeley, Garcia, and Kolb are accurate passers and they all made this offense look smooth when they were in. there is no doubt in my mind mcnabb could win a superbowl on a team that ran first and passed second. this will never be that team. i think he is a great QB playing in the wrong system for a coach who will never change.

btw, i believe mcnabb is up for 15 million in his contract next year.

[930vet]

I don't like McNabb and I can't wait for the Eagles to get rid of him. Yeah, and Reid, too. Sure, they both played the way I would have hoped in Sunday night's game, especially Reid, but on the whole I think the NFC East would be a much nicer place without them.

Of course, I am a longtime Cowboys fan.

[dburns]

Originally Posted by FMA

See, here's the problem: We don't recall the games where McNabb is firing on all cylinders, which he has had and is a thing of beauty. We all recall the games where he throws every other pass at the receiver's feet and takes sacks after having 10 years to throw the ball.
There is a good and bad with Donovan. Don't forget, though, he got the Iggles to the NFC championship game -- what is it? -- five times. Sure, we won only one of those and then, lost the Supe because, well, McNabb yakked it up.
But again, I'd still take McNabb over a lot of quarterbacks starting in the NFL. I mean, would you rather have McNabb or Derek Anderson. I know that's not a legit choice as the choice is now between McNabb and Kolb. And yes, Kolb had a couple of good games. But he doesn't have the kind of consistent record that McNabb has, inconsistent as it is.
Boy, I'm really tying myself in knots here. Sometimes I hate being a Philly fan. We know only rationalization and heartbreak...

gimme Derek Anderson

Seriously and respectfully tho, i'm tired of this argument. we're not the browns, the lions, the chiefs, the rams etc. we know they're bad and the eagles aren't. but the organization and its fans shouldn't be content just because their squad "competes" for a championship year after year. overall mcnabb has had a good career here. i remeber him smokin the bears in chicago in the playoffs early in his career. 4th and 26 against the Packers. i remember the super bowl season. the amazing scramble and bomb to freddie mitchell at dallas on monday nite. i don't forget. however, these guys are paid astronomically and like it or not, it becomes what have you done lately. the lone superbowl appearance was 5 seasons ago, and in last seasons NFC title game, he came up small again. injuries have taken their toll, and he never was accurate.

brad lidge saved 48/48 games two years ago but stunk last year. should the phils not try to improve at that position? i know, different sport obviously, but similar situation i believe.

and while you may take mcnabb over a lot of other qb's in the nfl...i watch the nfl every week and think of all the qbs i'd take instead of him. there's 13 definites.

[RiverDog]

Originally Posted by emu!

I remember about 10 years ago, when all the football "experts" thought that the running quarterback was going to change the game. McNabb, Culpepper, and Vick were all running quarterbacks in college. None of them could run the ball in the NFL like they could in NCAA. It must be a whole different game in the pros. The defenses must be quicker. Only McNabb came close to winning it all.

McNabb was good enough to change the game. In the beginning he could do amazing things with his legs, but then he said "I'm not a running quartback" and he decided to become a pocket passer.

[dburns]

you're right, he lost the desire, and now because of injuries/age, the ability to run effectively...he's nowhere near the same player. however, with respect to fran tarkenton (before my time), randall was the ultimate scrambling quarterback. at least that i've seen.

[neocaster]

I recall an earliler interview with Reid where he said he and Donvan worked hard to break him of his scrambling habit. With his accuracy where it stands (22nd in the league) it might be time to find his feet.

[Michael]

... and I love that there are others out there in TDPRI land that are so obviously Philly sports fans. We all listen to 610, we all watch Barkan, Didinger, Hebron, and the Governor, and we all want a Super Bowl victory. Will we ever see one in my lifetime? I'm 52, and while we've been competitive for longer than any time I can remember, the big one continues to elude us. It makes you wonder how the elite franchises, Pittsburgh, (grimaces) Dallas, and San Francisco have managed to win so many times over the years. Our day will come...

[marshman]

I've never paid a ton of attention to the football world, but if memory serves me, the Eagles have had two of the best scrambling quarterbacks to ever play the game, and has told both of them to stop running at the peaks of their careers.

Maybe I missed something.

[Brad Pittiful]

mcnabb is the best QB stat wise the eagles ever had

[jwsamuel]

The problem with the Eagles is that no matter how much Jeff Lurie, Joe Banner, Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb say they want to win, it is clear that none of them hate to lose.

There is a big difference between wanting to win and hating to lose.

Jim

[tcadam]

Originally Posted by jwsamuel

The problem with the Eagles is that no matter how much Jeff Lurie, Joe Banner, Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb say they want to win, it is clear that none of them hate to lose.

There is a big difference between wanting to win and hating to lose.

Jim

I think that's a good observation. At least it explains their ability to completely ignore the obvious problems that everyone else sees. I don't mind a loss but I mind loss after loss over the years for the same reasons every time. For example, I've never seen a team so utterly incapable of executing the two-minute offense as the current Eagles.

[dburns]

Originally Posted by Brad Pittiful

mcnabb is the best QB stat wise the eagles ever had

yea, he sure is...and bobby abreau may be best rightfielder stat wise the phils have ever had. couldn't wait to for him to be traded either. stats can be hollow sometimes. unless they support my side of an argument seriously tho, stats aren't everything.

[voodoo_idol]

I'm from south Jersey, born in Philly, grew up with season tix at the Vet and bleed Eagles green as much as anyone. The contempt some Eagles fans have for McNabb drives me nuts. The sports media in Philly is a big part of it and it sucks beyond belief, starting with Eskin on WIP. They tear people down just for sport. Seriously, worst sports media in the country. You need to get out of Philly to see it.

The man is 32 and if he stays healthy is likely on course to finish top 5 ALL TIME in passing yards, TDs, TD/INT ratio and INT/ATT ratio (and people criticize his accuracy - wtf ???). He is a lock for the Hall of Fame.

Eagles All-Time winning percentage = .469
McNabb's career winning percentage = .647
All-Time other Eagles starting QB's = .447

And he has done all this with crap receivers for most of his career, until last year (except brief TO period). He's had some good O-lines, but also some weak ones. He's had Westbrook in the backfield, but never a really good fullback until Weaver this year.

From the St. Petersburg Times: "Among active quarterbacks, it's hard to find one with better numbers than McNabb. Coming into this season, his winning percentage as a starter (.647) was third-best among active QBs with at least 100 starts, bettered only by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. He had the all-time lowest interception ratio and the third-best touchdown-to-interception ration. He holds the NFL record for consecutive completions (24) and will finish his career owning just about every passing record in Eagles history."

More highlights here: http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/player60.html

As for Kolb, he showed pretty good ability to hit the short passes (under 10 yds) but you can't win consistently with a short passing game. He has a notoriously weak downfield arm and you can't teach that. Also, he seems like a pretty dim bulb. Frankly, AJ Feeley was better then he will ever be. If you think Kolb might be the solution, you don't know football.

[mickeydean]

Originally Posted by voodoo_idol

I'm from south Jersey, born in Philly, grew up with season tix at the Vet and bleed Eagles green as much as anyone. The contempt some Eagles fans have for McNabb drives me nuts. The sports media in Philly is a big part of it and it sucks beyond belief, starting with Eskin on WIP. They tear people down just for sport. Seriously, worst sports media in the country. You need to get out of Philly to see it.

The man is 32 and if he stays healthy is likely on course to finish top 5 ALL TIME in passing yards, TDs, TD/INT ratio and INT/ATT ratio (and people criticize his accuracy - wtf ???). He is a lock for the Hall of Fame.

Eagles All-Time winning percentage = .469
McNabb's career winning percentage = .647
All-Time other Eagles starting QB's = .447

And he has done all this with crap receivers for most of his career, until last year (except brief TO period). He's had some good O-lines, but also some weak ones. He's had Westbrook in the backfield, but never a really good fullback until Weaver this year.

From the St. Petersburg Times: "Among active quarterbacks, it's hard to find one with better numbers than McNabb. Coming into this season, his winning percentage as a starter (.647) was third-best among active QBs with at least 100 starts, bettered only by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. He had the all-time lowest interception ratio and the third-best touchdown-to-interception ration. He holds the NFL record for consecutive completions (24) and will finish his career owning just about every passing record in Eagles history."

More highlights here: http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/player60.html

As for Kolb, he showed pretty good ability to hit the short passes (under 10 yds) but you can't win consistently with a short passing game. He has a notoriously weak downfield arm and you can't teach that. Also, he seems like a pretty dim bulb. Frankly, AJ Feeley was better then he will ever be. If you think Kolb might be the solution, you don't know football.

ok. i don't know football. now go back to the beach california boy.

[neocaster]

The biggest stat I'm interested in is number of rings won. Our statistic in that department couldn't possibly be any more hollow. You can call the man a great quarterback if you like, but it takes a ring to back that statement up. I don't think McNabb and Reid are going to be able to produce one, no matter how far they look up each others' <expletive>.

[dburns]

Originally Posted by neocaster

The biggest stat I'm interested in is number of rings won. Our statistic in that department couldn't possibly be any more hollow. You can call the man a great quarterback if you like, but it takes a ring to back that statement up. I don't think McNabb and Reid are going to be able to produce one, no matter how far they look up each others' <expletive>.

thank you...we don't care about stats anymore. its not fantasy football. and i don't get my views from the media, 610 WIP. i listen on occassion, but form my own opinions from watching the game. and for the record, i believe eskin has always loved reid, mcnabb, and the whole organization. he told us mcnabb was better than peyton manning for years. now it turns out that stinkin eli may be better as well.

i hear this int ration stat alot...its probably so low because even the defense has a hard time catching balls at their feet lol. he doesn't throw many ints, i'll give him that. but he seems to throw them at the worst times. three in the superbowl.

[neocaster]

I'll always be a fan, but I look forward to some much needed changes. I'm not hating on McNabb. He's a hell of a good guy, and a strong quarterback. I just have the evidence I need to support the opinion that he doesn't have a superbowl win in his bag of tricks.

[PapaBeef]

Right...McNabb sucks. He should be taken out & shot.
Imagine a quarterback who doesn't throw a touchdown pass every time he takes a snap.
That's something I've never seen before.

You McNabb bashers need to get a damn clue.
First of all, there are maybe 5 QBs in the NFL that are better than McNabb.
B- The biggest problem with the Eagles is not the players. It's the idiot calling the plays.
And thirdly, for most of McNabbs career he has been forced to play in an offense that passes the ball 70% of the time without a legitimate NFL caliber receiver.

Every7 quarterback will occasionally throw a bad pass. And not every pass that goes into the ground or over the receiver's head or out of bounds is a bad pass.
Sometimes a pass will go incomplete because the receiver runs the wrong route or gets jammed up at the line of scrimmage.
Sometimes the quarterback is hit as he releases the pass or is forced to throw on the run or is just not given the chance to set up & make a perfect throw.
This is not helped in any way by the fact that Andy Reid will not run the ball, which would help to keep the defenses from rushing McNabb on every play & keep him from getting hit on every play.
Don't forget McNabb is playing with broken ribs at the moment. That's an injury that sticks with you for months. It's painful. And it also effects your breathing.
Also, why is it that every time they get some momentum going, Reid trots Vick onto the field to break the rhythm.
And for that matter...Why is Vick even on the team. He's the 3rd best QB on the Eagles. And that's only because there are only 2 other QBs on the team since they cut Garcia & Feely.
I happen to be a JETS fan. But I watch every NFL game that's on TV. And I have for about 40 years. Since I live in Southern NJ, I'm in the Philadelphia market. So I've seen just about every Eagles game that's been played for the last 40 years.
In that time there has not been any other quarterback who's led the team to the conference final as many times as McNabb has.
And while McNabb may not have won a Super Bowl, most of the games the Eagles have lost in the past 10 1/2 seasons have been lost due to bad clock management, stupid penalties and ridiculous play calling...All of which are the result of POOR COACHING.

[marshman]

You don't NEED Lynn Swanns and Harold Carmichaels if your quarterback can hit the rec'r in the numbers, in stride. Say what you want about the Eagles rec'r corps, even with great ones, if you throw at their shoelaces, it don't mean jack, and we have had some really good receivers, make no mistake.

Not sayin' it's all McNabbs fault--the play calling is just too flaky to allow him to flourish.

[emu!]

McNabb...

Sound more like a receiver to me.

Maybe he should change his name to McToss. ;)