UPS Can't find my Ron Kirn Tele

[furrfurrfurr]

Sure is pretty. Like Papa Joe, I'm still hoping for a happy ending.

[outbreak]

Really hope this tele turns up! Afew weeks ago my sister had some accessories for her laptop shipped to our place. Didn't arrive a week after it was ment to so we called up the postal company here. They claimed it had arrived a week ago and been signed by some guy named james somethignrather at our address. There is no james at our house or at either of our neighbours so we still have no clue how they let some guy in a different house sign for this. Luckily the stuff wasn't worth much and the company just shipped out another package.

[Ormond]

Ohhhhhh.....that hurt's.

[Clutch442]

I am very sorry for your agony Nville. I have been checking this thread everyday. I hope your guitar turns up today. I can't hardly take it anymore. I have never had any problems at all with UPS, now I'm scared to death. I just hope your guitar shows up A-ok.

[jim_pridx]

Damn, I hate to say this, but I could've sworn I saw a guitar exactly like this on Seattle's Craigslist yesterday when I was browsing around for Kirn guitars and before I saw the photos of the lost guitar. I tried searching for the ad once again today, and it seems to have disappeared. But, it was definitely a Ron Kirn with the same finish and neck pickup. Now I'm kicking myself for not writing down the ad ID number.

[jim_pridx]

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think that the guitar I saw on Seattle's Craigslist may have indeed been the very same guitar. After all, how many Ron Kirn models do we see on Craigslist? and how much of a coincidence is it that they'd share the very same features? This is just an observation, but I very much sense that the UPS delivery driver nabbed it while knowing what it was, and I'd be willing to bet that this isn't the first time it's happened, either. It seems as though the guitar certainly passed through all of the scanning until it was actually loaded in the delivery truck. Then, the time difference later on? It sounds to me like the driver tried to smear the scanning process to make it difficult to track where it went.

That said, I think I'd be inclined to start a new post - or maybe several posts - saying something to the effect like "Has anyone in Seattle seen this guitar?" Then post a pic of it to see if any Seattle TDPRI members will pipe in. Or, it could be a general search post but, either way, you just never know what might turn up.

[mrmorrison]

Originally Posted by jim_pridx

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think that the guitar I saw on Seattle's Craigslist may have indeed been the very same guitar. After all, how many Ron Kirn models do we see on Craigslist? and how much of a coincidence is it that they'd share the very same features? This is just an observation, but I very much sense that the UPS delivery driver nabbed it while knowing what it was, and I'd be willing to bet that this isn't the first time it's happened, either. It seems as though the guitar certainly passed through all of the scanning until it was actually loaded in the delivery truck. Then, the time difference later on? It sounds to me like the driver tried to smear the scanning process to make it difficult to track where it went.

That said, I think I'd be inclined to start a new post - or maybe several posts - saying something to the effect like "Has anyone in Seattle seen this guitar?" Then post a pic of it to see if any Seattle TDPRI members will pipe in. Or, it could be a general search post but, either way, you just never know what might turn up.

If they find out it was the driver, I hope they make an example of him AND you get your guitar back, as you are the rightful owner. I'm hoping for a happy ending here.

[nvilletele]

Originally Posted by jim_pridx

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think that the guitar I saw on Seattle's Craigslist may have indeed been the very same guitar. After all, how many Ron Kirn models do we see on Craigslist? and how much of a coincidence is it that they'd share the very same features? This is just an observation, but I very much sense that the UPS delivery driver nabbed it while knowing what it was, and I'd be willing to bet that this isn't the first time it's happened, either. It seems as though the guitar certainly passed through all of the scanning until it was actually loaded in the delivery truck. Then, the time difference later on? It sounds to me like the driver tried to smear the scanning process to make it difficult to track where it went.

That said, I think I'd be inclined to start a new post - or maybe several posts - saying something to the effect like "Has anyone in Seattle seen this guitar?" Then post a pic of it to see if any Seattle TDPRI members will pipe in. Or, it could be a general search post but, either way, you just never know what might turn up.

I searched seattle craigslist, but could not find it (as expected) and I also tried a google search - sometimes they come up with links to pages which are no longer current - but also no luck there. Still, I like your suggestion and in a little bit I will put up a note on the Seattle CL musical instruments identifying the guitar and asking for locals there to advise if they have seen an ad for such a guitar. Probably a long shot, but hey you never know.

[furrfurrfurr]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

and in a little bit I will put up a note on the Seattle CL musical instruments identifying the guitar and asking for locals there to advise if they have seen an ad for such a guitar.

ASAP would be my recommendation. Could be good ammo/info for the next time you talk to UPS.

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

I searched seattle craigslist, but could not find it (as expected) and I also tried a google search - sometimes they come up with links to pages which are no longer current - but also no luck there. Still, I like your suggestion and in a little bit I will put up a note on the Seattle CL musical instruments identifying the guitar and asking for locals there to advise if they have seen an ad for such a guitar. Probably a long shot, but hey you never know.

I scan the Seattle CL, uh...many times a day, and I don't recall seeing it yesterday, or in previous days.

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

The seller has already indicated he would refund my money if it is not found . . .

This is the most amazing aspect to this whole story. This is one stand-up guy.

However, if he is willing to refund the money, he'll be out of pocket and minus one guitar. Is he also trying to get answers from UPS?

Who arranged the shipment? Who paid UPS? Who paid for the insurance? Shouldn't the complaint to UPS come from the person who sent the package?

I've never had a problem with UPS, so I have no idea about their processes. However, in my capacity as Shipper/Receiver for a wholesale company a few years back, any time a shipment went awry, it was my job to contact the freight company, not my customer's. I initiated the shipment, and it was my signature on the weighbill. Therefore, it was my responsibility to follow up.

nvilletelle, why are you going through all of this? Is UPS claiming that you signed for the package?

[tiktok]

The shipper buys the insurance.
He is the "customer" in the transaction with UPS.
The buyer/OP is the customer of...the shipper.
If the shipper insured the package for full replacement value (i.e. a new guitar), then he could refund the OP, keep the rest and maybe take a slight loss (depending on what Kirn is charging these days).

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by tiktok

The shipper buys the insurance.
He is the "customer" in the transaction with UPS.
The buyer/OP is the customer of...the shipper.
If the shipper insured the package for full replacement value (i.e. a new guitar), then he could refund the OP, keep the rest and maybe take a slight loss (depending on what Kirn is charging these days).

This is what I thought. And so, the guy who sold the guitar should be one fighting with UPS.

[jim_pridx]

Originally Posted by tiktok

I scan the Seattle CL, uh...many times a day, and I don't recall seeing it yesterday, or in previous days.

Well, the ad may not have been up very long, but as I was reading this thread yesterday afternoon, I thought I'd Google "Ron Kirn Craigslist," and that guitar popped up in Seattle. I really thought very little about it at the time because it didn't occur to me that the guitar in question could actually end up there. Once I saw the pics here, my jaw literally dropped! I also had to scratch my head today when I noticed that the ad seems to have mysteriously disappeared. Also, I don't recall the exact verbiage in the ad, but he did mention that it was a heavy guitar, and it sounded as though the guy knew what he was talking about.

[HOBBSTER01]

but was unable to do so.
My input is to contact the Seattle Po Po and request that they contact craigslist on your behalf.
Or you can do so yourself at
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/emailForm.cgi

[nvilletele]

UPS has not been very good at keeping me informed this week. Though they started acting like they were concerned after I showed up and made some noise at their local facility last Thursday, they have been out of sight pretty much all this week.

So Monday evening I call the local UPS head guy's office and speak to one of his staff who tells me there is no news, and that I should be calling the UPS "Operations Excellence" guy. So yesterday, when I called the UPS "Operations Excellence" guy who is supposed to be keeping me informed and also making sure UPS is doing whatever they can to find the guitar, he tells me he is at the dentist and he will call me this morning. It is now past noon here, no word. I called him and left a message.

I got an email from a low-level person at the local UPS head guy's office, and she finally asks me to provide them with the copy of the tracking info that shows the 8:10am out for delivery info that mysteriously switch to 3:42am the next day . . . I have been pointing out to them since the outset that this looks important to me, but they are all "No, we dont need to see that, we believe you" etc. Maybe it is all irrelevant, but it sure at least seems like they are not really moving here with "all deliberate speed" (to borrow a phrase from Brown v. Bd. of Ed.).

I am attaching pics that show the two tracking reports, not that it will do much good. I have, however, told UPS that I am thinking of publishing these . . . may not do any good but can't see how it will do any harm.

[bluetele54]

...my partner Carol had some issues with UPS recently and was inspired to write a "poison pen" letter which was forwarded to the corporate offices,the UPS shop that she went to to ship some of her fathers musical collection,and the local main office near where she lives...

...apparently the office manager from the place that she shipped from was so contrite that he offered to refund her total shipping costs...

...a well written letter to the corporate office can have positive results...

[pchilson]

I think kelnet is hitting point blank on who needs to be involved here. Is it not the shipper that has the "contract" with UPS?
I'd be doing the same as nvilletele myself but it seems to me the shipper is the only one they would be beholden to.

[jim_pridx]

nvilletele.....email sent.

[ADK Teleman]

nville,
my friend who works with me here has been in contact with his old boss who is suppossedly up there in UPS and he is starting to raise some hell from what i was told...hang tight he is going to give me more information on what to do next!
E

[tweeet]

This is developing into a Columbo episode.I've followed this thread from the start..it's a story that's building and building...hopefully with a good ending.

[kelnet]

Originally Posted by pchilson

I think kelnet is hitting point blank on who needs to be involved here. Is it not the shipper that has the "contract" with UPS?
I'd be doing the same as nvilletele myself but it seems to me the shipper is the only one they would be beholden to.

Perhaps UPS doesn't really care about nvilletelle because he's not the one who should be filing a claim.

[Groovey Records]

Call the local news does your town have one of those broadcasters that cuts through red tape with the "Power of the Press"

Here its called 7 on your side

[pchilson]

You could be right kelnet.
A guitar box is too large to get "lost" in the back of a truck and hard to be overlooked in a warehouse by anyone that actually was looking for one I would think. I hope this works out well for all involved.

[nvilletele]

For those talking about the shipper/seller: The shipper is involved . . . he has been contacted by UPS and though I dont know for certain every matter they have discussed, he has been keeping me pretty much in the loop so far as I can tell. There are some issues that I am still trying to find out more info about, specifically re insurance value, and I have questions in to both the shipper and UPS, but no answers.

What happened was this (or so I've been told): when first shipped out, the package somehow got indicated to be a letter, at zero pounds weight, with a stated value of $1100. In the process of that getting fixed, it was corrected to be a package, with correct weight, but the stated value got wiped out and did not get corrected. Seller told me he is working with UPS to get this original stated value (the price I paid, not the actual full value of the guitar if new) reinstated. From my perspective, this is more his problem than mine, since if he screwed up in properly insuring it, that's his fault and he should still refund my money. Since I think he is a stand-up guy, I expect him to do so. But I have been asking UPS where things stand re this issue, and no one has provided any answers. I havent heard back from the seller yet on this today either. In any case, even though I think it is more of an issue for the seller, I want to make sure there is insurance coverage, as that would certainly remove any potential for the seller to stiff me, however nice he seems to me so far. Better safe than sorry.

This situation re insurance is also the reason I haven't given full details about insurance previously - I had been hoping to find out exactly what the resolution, if any, was going to be on that before I confused everyone further. I dont know exactly how it got mis-indicated as a letter to begin with, but it did, and we just have to deal with the consequences, which are basically now just the insurance status.

I dont think UPS has been ignoring me just because I am the recipient and not the shipper. They have just been ignoring me because that's what they do when they have no answers . . . . And they certainly have no answers other than "we dont know where it is or what happened to it, or why the Out for Delivery time changed like it did from Wednesday to Thursday". They are the Sergeant Shultz of package services - they know nothing, see nothing and say nothing.

[pchilson]

What is it? A week, 7 days today?
How long to they continue to "look" for it?

Sure hope they don't try to weasel out because of the paperwork snafu.

[1977CJ5]

Man. I feel bad for you. I get "high anxiety" ever time I visit this post hoping the see that you have received your guitar. If this is stressing me, I can only imagine how frustrated you must be...

Keep the faith, it will all work out in the end.

[Groovey Records]

This happened to me on a 4K over seas tranaction

I handed in the paper work with the value

Because the depot thought I needed a shippers ID # Like a SSN they held the package in limbo

when I finly found out and got it straaight they left off my insurance value

your shipper will need his original paper work to prove to UPS they dropped the ball

Its on him to straighten it out with them, not you.

He is morally responsible to you

did he ever actually say Shipping and insurance in writing to you?

Then he is legally responsible

If Pay Pal is involved start your claim process today

[ROADMAN]

[SimpleOne]

I wonder if a thief may have been trying to make it look like your package was delivered by scanning it again, only to have it appear the guitar was "out for delivery" again. Or maybe he, or she, was just trying to blur the trail.

That UPS can not check who the individual was, what work station etc., that entered a second "out for delivery time"...makes me wonder.

I wonder also if the seller used an old guitar shipping box which may have had a previously used label, with someone else address, or addresses on it. If your address label fell of...it would expose someone else address. Instant re-route...remember that thread?

We are with you nvilletele!

[jim_pridx]

I see nothing, unt, I hear nothing!

[tazzboy]

I would just wait until it gets to day 8 then give them call. If UPS hasn't found it by then it's consider lost and get your money back.

[imsilly]

I really hope the guitar turns up rather then you having to start the process of making a claim. This story and the fact I have a guitar traveling from the States to here in the UK vis UPS is making me very nervous. The only thing that has previously prevented me from buying guitars from outside Europe has been the fear of inept shipping.

[nvilletele]

Originally Posted by SimpleOne

I wonder if a thief may have been trying to make it look like your package was delivered by scanning it again, only to have it appear the guitar was "out for delivery" again. Or maybe he, or she, was just trying to blur the trail.

That UPS can not check who the individual was, what work station etc., that entered a second "out for delivery time"...makes me wonder.

Same here - I've been wondering that from last Thursday . . . but what with the various types - physical vs. derived scans - and other UPS and computer system mysteries, who knows?

Originally Posted by SimpleOne

I wonder also if the seller used an old guitar shipping box which may have had a previously used label, with someone else address, or addresses on it. If your address label fell of...it would expose someone else address. Instant re-route...remember that thread?

It was a box that once held a Gretsch, since I know it says "Gretsch" on the box. Whether it had old UPS labels on it or not, I do not know. That is always a possibility I suppose, and its why I always remove or black out any old shipping label when I ship something.

Originally Posted by SimpleOne

We are with you nvilletele!

Thanks! TDPRI'ers are the best.

FWIW, I agree with the folks who have said the process should be pursued by the shipper, but his worry at this stage is only money . . . whereas my primary motive is to get that Ron Kirn Tele in my hands . . . that's why I am continuing to press UPS as hard as I am . . . even if I do not have privity of contract directly with UPS, I am clearly a third party beneficiary of the shipper's contract, and have (until a refund is issued) beneficial, if not legal, ownership of the guitar. So I believe I have standing to push UPS and get as much info from them as I can. If you don't push them (and sometimes even if you do), they don't do squat.

[stealyerface]

Keep at it nvilletele. Something tells me the resolution to this will be far different from what we are expecting.

A carriage that overturned ahead can be a lesson for those to follow.

syf

[backalleyblues]

Originally Posted by jim_pridx

You know, the more I think about this, the more I think that the guitar I saw on Seattle's Craigslist may have indeed been the very same guitar. After all, how many Ron Kirn models do we see on Craigslist? and how much of a coincidence is it that they'd share the very same features? This is just an observation, but I very much sense that the UPS delivery driver nabbed it while knowing what it was, and I'd be willing to bet that this isn't the first time it's happened, either. It seems as though the guitar certainly passed through all of the scanning until it was actually loaded in the delivery truck. Then, the time difference later on? It sounds to me like the driver tried to smear the scanning process to make it difficult to track where it went.

That said, I think I'd be inclined to start a new post - or maybe several posts - saying something to the effect like "Has anyone in Seattle seen this guitar?" Then post a pic of it to see if any Seattle TDPRI members will pipe in. Or, it could be a general search post but, either way, you just never know what might turn up.

Jim Pridx,
Are you using Firefox? If so, check back in your history, the post you saw should still be there, and the ad should still be in the CL system. I know this works, I did it to dig up some pics on an amp I bought yesterday, and the seller had already deleted the ad... could resolve that particular issue...

Franc Robert

[Cooleyman]

Hey guys, I'm the shipper of the Kirn guitar and felt I should chime in on my own behalf :)
First of all, I appreciate all the well wishes you guys have given nville so far because I know you would wish them for me as well since I'm the other party involved.

Just wanted to assure everyone that I have also been active in pushing UPS to find the package. Just because I have not posted my efforts here for all to see does not mean I'm sitting on my hands here. Multiple phone calls and emails, but really what can we do?
UPS has the tracking number and package description. I am watching my doorstep every day in case it was returned my way.

I've already assured nville that I would refund the payment if the guitar is not found and I will. I'm sure nville would MUCH rather have the Ron Kirn Tele but it is I who will truly lose out if it's not found (to the tune of $1100).

I did not mention the declared value snafu to him because I didn't want him to feel bad about accepting a refund if it came to that. I guess the UPS folks told you about that nville. No worries, the tracer started on Thursday and will end on Monday (8 business days). I should get some sort of final word from UPS then. If it's not found I'll refund the payment to nville Tuesday morning and hope that by some miracle it shows up at a later date on his doorstep or mine.
Neither of us discussed insuring the package before hand. There was simply no mention of it. I charged him $30 for shipping and then sent it 2-day air (which cost more than that) the very next morning. My only failing was not catching that my setting of 'UPS package' and declared value of $1100 (that I had previously entered) had been reset to 'UPS letter' and $0 respectively after a zip-code adjustment popped up during the Paypal shipping wizard. At least that's all I can figure must have happened.

As for the box, it was a Gretsch box with red advertising all over it. My shipping label went over an old one and was taped well. It didn't fall off.

Nville paid for the guitar and if he doesn't get it I'll refund him. Neither the lack of insurance nor the loss of the package are his fault. I do not relish the idea of losing $1100 but life goes on.
Still, I'd LOVE to get an email from Nville with good news! Fingers crossed :)

[furrfurrfurr]

Originally Posted by Cooleyman

Hey guys, I'm the shipper of the Kirn guitar and felt I should chime in on my own behalf :)
First of all, I appreciate all the well wishes you guys have given nville so far because I know you would wish them for me as well since I'm the other party involved.

Just wanted to assure everyone that I have also been active in pushing UPS to find the package. Just because I have not posted my efforts here for all to see does not mean I'm sitting on my hands here. Multiple phone calls and emails, but really what can we do?
UPS has the tracking number and package description. I am watching my doorstep every day in case it was returned my way.

I've already assured nville that I would refund the payment if the guitar is not found and I will. I'm sure nville would MUCH rather have the Ron Kirn Tele but it is I who will truly lose out if it's not found (to the tune of $1100).

I did not mention the declared value snafu to him because I didn't want him to feel bad about accepting a refund if it came to that. I guess the UPS folks told you about that nville. No worries, the tracer started on Thursday and will end on Monday (8 business days). I should get some sort of final word from UPS then. If it's not found I'll refund the payment to nville Tuesday morning and hope that by some miracle it shows up at a later date on his doorstep or mine.
Neither of us discussed insuring the package before hand. There was simply no mention of it. I charged him $30 for shipping and then sent it 2-day air (which cost more than that) the very next morning. My only failing was not catching that my setting of 'UPS package' and declared value of $1100 (that I had previously entered) had been reset to 'UPS letter' and $0 respectively after a zip-code adjustment popped up during the Paypal shipping wizard. At least that's all I can figure must have happened.

As for the box, it was a Gretsch box with red advertising all over it. My shipping label went over an old one and was taped well. It didn't fall off.

Nville paid for the guitar and if he doesn't get it I'll refund him. Neither the lack of insurance nor the loss of the package are his fault. I do not relish the idea of losing $1100 but life goes on.
Still, I'd LOVE to get an email from Nville with good news! Fingers crossed :)

I'd do business with you any day, Cooley. You're a stand-up dude, that's for sure. My fingers are crossed for both of you.

[HOBBSTER01]

Originally Posted by Cooleyman

Hey guys, I'm the shipper of the Kirn guitar and felt I should chime in on my own behalf :)
First of all, I appreciate all the well wishes you guys have given nville so far because I know you would wish them for me as well since I'm the other party involved.

Just wanted to assure everyone that I have also been active in pushing UPS to find the package. Just because I have not posted my efforts here for all to see does not mean I'm sitting on my hands here. Multiple phone calls and emails, but really what can we do?
UPS has the tracking number and package description. I am watching my doorstep every day in case it was returned my way.

I've already assured nville that I would refund the payment if the guitar is not found and I will. I'm sure nville would MUCH rather have the Ron Kirn Tele but it is I who will truly lose out if it's not found (to the tune of $1100).

I did not mention the declared value snafu to him because I didn't want him to feel bad about accepting a refund if it came to that. I guess the UPS folks told you about that nville. No worries, the tracer started on Thursday and will end on Monday (8 business days). I should get some sort of final word from UPS then. If it's not found I'll refund the payment to nville Tuesday morning and hope that by some miracle it shows up at a later date on his doorstep or mine.
Neither of us discussed insuring the package before hand. There was simply no mention of it. I charged him $30 for shipping and then sent it 2-day air (which cost more than that) the very next morning. My only failing was not catching that my setting of 'UPS package' and declared value of $1100 (that I had previously entered) had been reset to 'UPS letter' and $0 respectively after a zip-code adjustment popped up during the Paypal shipping wizard. At least that's all I can figure must have happened.

As for the box, it was a Gretsch box with red advertising all over it. My shipping label went over an old one and was taped well. It didn't fall off.

Nville paid for the guitar and if he doesn't get it I'll refund him. Neither the lack of insurance nor the loss of the package are his fault. I do not relish the idea of losing $1100 but life goes on.
Still, I'd LOVE to get an email from Nville with good news! Fingers crossed :)

Sounds like a stand up guy to me.

[Yoni]

Man I can't wait for the movie of this to come out. At the end we'll superimpose Orson wells sitting on a beach in fiji strumming the tele and then cut to black, credits, and all you hear is.