UPS Can't find my Ron Kirn Tele

[nvilletele]

Originally Posted by Dave W

Getting back to the OP, I sure hope they locate your guitar.

If they eventually determine that it's lost and offer a settlement to the seller, you and he should understand that accepting a settlement means you give up any rights to the guitar if it turns up later.

Even if it turns up in the house of the driver?

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

Even if it turns up in the house of the driver?

I would hope they'd look there first.

Reason I mentioned this is because of an incident a few years ago at a now-deceased bass forum. The seller, a forum member, underinsured the bass and UPS lost it. He accepted a settlement and lost money since he had to reimburse the buyer the full amount.

A year later it shows up on eBay. The eBay seller had bought it from a legit dealer who had bought it from UPS after it eventually turned up. All a legitimate chain of ownership. Since UPS had paid the settlement, they owned the bass.

The forum member practically stalked all these people demanding the bass back. He was convinced something dishonest had happened at UPS, and he may have been right. But he lost any right to "his" bass by accepting the settlement. So he never got it back.

[tazzboy]

This only happen a couple of days ago. So I would give it some more time.

[podboy3]

I would think that if the driver got it that the guitar is with a friend of his or at families house and laying low for a while until everything settles down. If it was the driver he must know that a big deal has been made about this package which would give him time to hide it some place safe in case they did want to search.
I hope they find it and it finds you safe and sound..... I would be in a rage.

[Ormond]

It does not make sense for a driver to risk his $60,000 a year job for a two thousand dollar guitar.
Can't be the driver.

[TG]

Originally Posted by Ormond

It does not make sense for a driver to risk his $60,000 a year job for a two thousand dollar guitar.
Can't be the driver.

You think that because you are sensible and think about things. Many people are not...and don't.

There was a funny case in the 1980s where some Irish fellow went all around the United Kingdom making bogus dole (= welfare) claims and eventually he was caught. At his trial the judge informed him that had he made an honest claim he'd have been eligible for much, much more than the amount he'd swindled...AND he'd have been eligible for free accommodation as well.

Duh...

[tap4154]

Originally Posted by Ormond

It does not make sense for a driver to risk his $60,000 a year job for a two thousand dollar guitar.
Can't be the driver.

And the governor of a large state, like New York for example, wouldn't risk his job and his entire political future for a few thrills with a young escort... ;o)

BTW, it may have been stolen off the truck as well while the driver was making a delivery. My driver will go off and make deliveries to neighbors with his truck unlocked. Usually not gone for long, but...

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by Dave W

Sorry, but you're severely mistaken. When you ship with UPS (or any other carrier) you have to sign an agreement accepting their terms and conditions.

UPS does not accept responsibility for improper packing. If you don't agree to this, they won't take your package. Period. No federal law overrides this.

Sorry, Dave, but you need to do some research.

Otherwise, freight companies would be entirely free to deliver ruble instead of freight. This is why there are laws that cover destruction of freight and the responsibilities of trucking companies. You might try Title 49 USC Section 14706 among others.

[rocksteady Max]

Originally Posted by Ormond

It does not make sense for a driver to risk his $60,000 a year job for a two thousand dollar guitar.
Can't be the driver.

if it's him ... he'll be making 62 000$ this year.

UPS sucks !

[Spidercaster]

maybe I watch too much TV, but the driver seems to obvious. I would guess it's the guy who scans it and a different driver. The scanner scans it properly, but put's it on his buddies truck, who is in on the scam. If it's caught before he leaves the depot -"oops, honest mistake", if he makes it out to the street, he then drops it off at another buddies house and it's gone for good.

Hopefully I'm wrong and they'll find it.

[Tonetele]

Sorry to hear of your situation. This concerns all of us in a way as we depend on companies to do the right thing. I couldn't recover money lost from Paypal yet some US dealers only use it. Was the guitar insured as part of the postage costs? That may not get that specific guitar back but the money could help in getting a replica replacement built. Lots of luck. Tonetele, Australia.

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Sorry, Dave, but you need to do some research.

Otherwise, freight companies would be entirely free to deliver ruble instead of freight. This is why there are laws that cover destruction of freight and the responsibilities of trucking companies. You might try Title 49 USC Section 14706 among others.

I'm thinking this is perhaps pertinent:

(c) Special Rules.—
(1) Motor carriers.—
(A) Shipper waiver.— Subject to the provisions of subparagraph (B), a carrier providing transportation or service subject to jurisdiction under subchapter I or III of chapter 135 may, subject to the provisions of this chapter (including with respect to a motor carrier, the requirements of section 13710 (a)), establish rates for the transportation of property (other than household goods described in section 13102 (10)(A)) under which the liability of the carrier for such property is limited to a value established by written or electronic declaration of the shipper or by written agreement between the carrier and shipper if that value would be reasonable under the circumstances surrounding the transportation.

[1962guitargeek]

Had a bud that was a ups driver.

All kind of things fell off his truck......

He tried to get me to do an insurance scam with him. No thank you.....

[Groovey Records]

Sorry can't help my self

We can't dance, we don't talk much, we just ball and play
But then we move like tigers on vaseline
Well the bitter comes out better on a stolen guitar
You're the blessed, we're the spiders from Mars

[Drunkinminer]

This is why I would never buy anything that had to be shipped. If I were, I would make sure I could pick it up myself. Otherwise forget it.

[moondogz]

Who doesn't have a story about these people??? I had a guitar shipped from Utah to Edmonton, the seller paid the freight...when it arrived (damaged, though not major) they charged me $80.00 for handling it at the border. By the look of the hard shell case they tossed it across...anyway..good luck on your quest for satisfaction.

[RodeoTex]

Nville, please keep us informed. I hope that the new business week will bring some answers.
I know you are the one with the lion's share of loss here but we've got some emotional investment here now and wish you the best.

[nvilletele]

Originally Posted by RodeoTex

Nville, please keep us informed. I hope that the new business week will bring some answers.
I know you are the one with the lion's share of loss here but we've got some emotional investment here now and wish you the best.

Yes, of course I will keep all informed of any progress. So far there hasn't been any.

They assured me they would continue the search all weekend, but I don't believe they are doing anything in this regard. I havent heard from them yesterday or yet today. I will call them tomorrow and see what they've been doing.

They still havent given me any answer, let alone a plausible one, to explain how the Out For Deliver scan changed from 8:10am to 3:42am (each Wed. morning) between Wednesday night and Thursday morning. They agree it is very odd, and so far they have no explanation. In my view, it can only be one of two things = there is either some kind of scan scam going on, or the UPS tracking system has major issues. Either way, a major cause for concern.

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by moondogz

Who doesn't have a story about these people???

Well, me.

As a non-business user of both services, I can't recall any problems with either. The only package I've ever had go missing was by USPS, but I still use them too.

Still, for something large and/or valuable, such as a guitar, I have them ship to my office address if there's not going to be anyone at the house (my wife works from home, so there usually is).

[ADK Teleman]

nashville,
I have a guy who works in my shop who retired from UPS. I will talk to him and try to have him pull some strings for your investigation. Please email me the particulars and we will get this going for you
Eric

[nvilletele]

Originally Posted by ADK Teleman

nashville,
I have a guy who works in my shop who retired from UPS. I will talk to him and try to have him pull some strings for your investigation. Please email me the particulars and we will get this going for you
Eric

Thanks. I sent you an email separately. Any assistance would be appreciated, though not sure there is much more that can be done. Still, would be nice to at least get an explanation of the mysterious switching "Out for Delivery" time scans.

[Scotland]

A similar situation happened to me with my CP60's, there is a thread here about it somewhere.
After a week of them being unable to find it, I told them I was getting the police involved as theft was very high on the agenda. They "found" it within 10 mins. When I got it, the tape on the outer box was brown whereas it was packed with clear tape. The Fender ABS case was cracked and broken at the end but the corresponding part of the cardboard box was undamaged.
Someone had taken it home and banked on the fact that I would just claim compensation but as soon as "police" was mentioned, that person obviously had a call telling them to get it back.

[mickeydean]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

Sorry can't help my self

We can't dance, we don't talk much, we just ball and play
But then we move like tigers on vaseline
Well the bitter comes out better on a stolen guitar
You're the blessed, we're the spiders from Mars

my alltime favorite line from my alltime favorite Bowie song.

now, back to the thread.....

[ADK Teleman]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

Thanks. I sent you an email separately. Any assistance would be appreciated, though not sure there is much more that can be done. Still, would be nice to at least get an explanation of the mysterious switching "Out for Delivery" time scans.

Well...I have my friend looking into it. He said that he is going to call his old manager and get them involved. Hopefully we will know shortly

[ThreeChords]

If you never get the guitar back, how do they re-imburse you for something like that? Is there a flat reimbursement fee they give?

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by ThreeChords

If you never get the guitar back, how do they re-imburse you for something like that? Is there a flat reimbursement fee they give?

Depends on how much it was insured for--that's what they pay.

[charlie cash]

nvilletele,
This link was posted in the telecaster forum. It is a Ron Kirn Tele for sale on Craigs List in Eugene, OR. I hope it is not your guitar, but I don't think it would hurt to investigate.

http://eugene.craigslist.org/msg/1420723886.html

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by charlie cash

nvilletele,
This link was posted in the telecaster forum. It is a Ron Kirn Tele for sale on Craigs List in Eugene, OR. I hope it is not your guitar, but I don't think it would hurt to investigate.

http://eugene.craigslist.org/msg/1420723886.html

Hmm.....:

eugene craigslist > for sale / wanted > musical instruments


This posting has been deleted by its author.

(The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.)

[charlie cash]

Sorry, false alarm. That thread began Oct 14, before yours went missing.

[Groovey Records]

That post is from a month ago Sherlock

[nvilletele]

Yes, I saw that link, and though that one has been deleted, there is a new posting up in Eugene by the same guy. He says his is a Barn Burner though, and the one I bought is not . . . mine had a humbucker in the neck too . . .

[nvilletele]

Oh, didnt see the additional posts with info before I just posted here . . . didnt think it was mine anyway.

I appreciate everyone's helpful ideas and suggestions, by the way.

I havent yet heard from UPS, not a word since Friday afternoon. I will call them within an hour and, if they have no additional info (especially re the strange change of Out for Delivery times) maybe say I will be contacting the police . . . still thinking about that.

[yonie]

I've seen the scan times change to earlier times as well on deliveries from Germany to the Netherlands. I guess they first predict where the package is supposed to be at that point (was also rounded to a full hour in my case), and when they get the actual scan they overwrite the estimate.

[nvilletele]

Originally Posted by yonie

I've seen the scan times change to earlier times as well on deliveries from Germany to the Netherlands. I guess they first predict where the package is supposed to be at that point (was also rounded to a full hour in my case), and when they get the actual scan they overwrite the estimate.

But in this case, the supposed actual physical scan occured at 3:42am on 10/28. . . but all day long on 10/28 the scan showed 8:10 out for delivery time . . . if the actual scan had occured at 3:42am, it should not have said "8:10" all day on 10/28, until the morning of 10/29. If it were an actual scan at 3:42am on 10/28, that should have appeared on the tracking info, and not the later "derived" scan that appeared all day on 10/28. UPS has agreed that it makes no sense and has no explanation. Still no explanation, 5 days later . . . .

[Groovey Records]

Did the shipper insure for the full amount?

It will be his responsibility to make the claim

Unless the shipper makes good Pay Pal will be your last hope

[tomkatf]

I live in the SD area and just ran across this thread. You're talking about the same UPS dolts that allegedly delivered a package insured for $1600 to my doorstep... I would expect a signature would have been required for delivery of a valuable, insured package, but no...it was supposedly just left there... I never saw the package, it was either stolen off my doorstep or the driver snagged it... the followup by UPS has been terrible... unresponsive, incompetent, slow... yeccccchhh...

Best,
Tom

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

But in this case, the supposed actual physical scan occured at 3:42am on 10/28. . . but all day long on 10/28 the scan showed 8:10 out for delivery time . . . if the actual scan had occured at 3:42am, it should not have said "8:10" all day on 10/28, until the morning of 10/29. If it were an actual scan at 3:42am on 10/28, that should have appeared on the tracking info, and not the later "derived" scan that appeared all day on 10/28. UPS has agreed that it makes no sense and has no explanation. Still no explanation, 5 days later . . . .

Having worked (and working with) with global workflow tracking systems, my first assumption would be a data hiccup, perhaps followed by a back-end edit to the data. There's all sorts of possible points of failure in a system like that--user error, hardware issues, data corruption, etc. My second assumption would be that the package is somewhere in the system right now (a truck, an office, a warehouse), soon headed for the moment when someone says "Hey, what's that doing here?", or "Hey, what happened to the tracking label for this one?"

[yonie]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

But in this case, the supposed actual physical scan occured at 3:42am on 10/28. . . but all day long on 10/28 the scan showed 8:10 out for delivery time . . . if the actual scan had occured at 3:42am, it should not have said "8:10" all day on 10/28, until the morning of 10/29. If it were an actual scan at 3:42am on 10/28, that should have appeared on the tracking info, and not the later "derived" scan that appeared all day on 10/28. UPS has agreed that it makes no sense and has no explanation. Still no explanation, 5 days later . . . .

I agree, i see no reason why the update would have taken so long. I'm not an expert at how this is processed, maybe the courier maunally needs to upload the data. That may be an indication there is indeed about a day missing in the whole timeline.

I wish you good luck in trying to get this sorted out and i hope the thing turns up on your doorstep soon anyway.

[boomboomba]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

But in this case, the supposed actual physical scan occured at 3:42am on 10/28. . . but all day long on 10/28 the scan showed 8:10 out for delivery time . . . if the actual scan had occured at 3:42am, it should not have said "8:10" all day on 10/28, until the morning of 10/29. If it were an actual scan at 3:42am on 10/28, that should have appeared on the tracking info, and not the later "derived" scan that appeared all day on 10/28. UPS has agreed that it makes no sense and has no explanation. Still no explanation, 5 days later . . . .

I work in logistics. Seems to me an actual scan was made at 3:42am on the trailer it came into the terminal on. Then at 8:10 the trailer was confirmed empty, so any freight that had been on it would get updated with the same time, a derived scan. The next actual scan would be when it goes on the delivery truck. Seems like it never made it onto a delivery truck. Which points to theft or loss on the dock.

[Larry F]

Originally Posted by moondogz

Who doesn't have a story about these people??? I had a guitar shipped from Utah to Edmonton, the seller paid the freight...when it arrived (damaged, though not major) they charged me $80.00 for handling it at the border. By the look of the hard shell case they tossed it across...anyway..good luck on your quest for satisfaction.

I don't know about this. One way of looking at it is that it is primarily the people who have had similar problems posting about it here. Not that anyone here has done this, but I for one have some quasi-interesting stories that are all ready to go once there is a thread on this topic. Or, for me, I don't even need an appropriate thread.

I have ordered maybe $800,000 of gear for my electronic music studios in the last 15 years. No single item has been for more than $15,000 and most everything else is under $3,000. And lots of little things, too, like cables, mic stands, etc. I haven't had anything lost or damaged in shipping.

There was one incident, though. I'll mention the company's name, Full Compass, because it had a very good resolution. I had ordered maybe $12,000 of mixers, amps, and speakers and needed them by a certain date, as I was organizing a national conference. My assistants were looking after this, but at a certain point, I called our contact person. It turned out that the person who took the order went out on maternity leave and didn't pass the info on. After pleading with the other guy at 4:00 in the afternoon, he said he would do the best he could. At 9:00 AM the next day, I got a call from the department secretary saying there are big crates of stuff for me. It had to have left the warehouse by 6:00 AM and it must have taken who knows how long to get the order together and package it. Of course, my university gives them a lot of business, but still I was touched that they went to such trouble to help me out when I needed it. So there we have it, FULL COMPASS has delivered every piece of gear we have ordered and not lost anything or sent us something that didn't work the way it was supposed to.

Hmm. Usually they ship UPS, but could UPS done that particular shipment? Or did they send one of their own trucks out? They're 200-250 miles away, I think. Anyway, sometimes, maybe most of the time, things really do work out. But the only reason I'm posting this is because I have, for me, an interesting story to tell. Yesssssss.