UPS Can't find my Ron Kirn Tele

[Guitar_Ninja]

I sent my iPod in to Apple recently for warranty service. They FedEx'd me a box with return postage and I sent it off. I was a bit nervous about getting the replacement back, as I've heard too many stories of high demand items like that vanishing en route.

When Apple sent me a replacement iPod (the original was toast), it came back in a nondescript padded envelope. Just my name and address on the front, and their service centre address at the top. No company info anywhere, no description of the contents, nothing.

Incidentally, Apple has to have the best customer service of any company I've ever dealt with. And they obviously know something about their courier...

Hope you get some good news soon.

[RodeoTex]

UPS totally smashed a guitar that I shipped a couple of years ago. And it was totally packed well.
Come to find out they refuse 65% of all insurance claims. They did in my case because the buyer was really miffed and insisted that it wasn't packed properly. That was enough for them to refuse my claim.

I paid back the customer and never got the guitar back. I'll never do that again.

[imsilly]

This sounds horrible, I hope the guitar arrives. Fingers crossed it will.

If this kind of thing happened to me I'd probably do a Liam Neeson from Taken and track down who ever did it and make them pay. I have a guitar coming from New York to here in London at the moment with UPS. If they even thought about touching it I'd quite frankly book a flight over to the states and kickass until I got a replacement and foot-rub.

Then again I'm like that I had a delivery last week and when it was late I phoned the courier up. I talked to the idiot while I saw him driving up and down my street. I considered going outside and flagging him down, but to be honest he was already half a day late when he got to my street so I let him sweat. I phoned the company that had hired him and told them to give him a boot up the arse too. I got some peverse pleasure watching him jump out of his van and check houses to see if he was in the right place, made up for all the time couriers have wasted in my life. By the way it took him from 5.30pm when I first noticed a lost looking driver run up a neighbours path and quickly run back down again until 7.30 when he finally rang my doorbell.

[otterhound]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

I already thought about doing this . . . or at least telling UPS I plan on doing this . . . but first I want to wait and see how UPS handles this . . . they would basically be doing nothing had I not gone in person and started making noise (not yelling, just pointing out the facts without beating around the bush).

My only problem is that I am not particularly good at writing songs, nor at performing. Perhaps I could arrange a group effort, with a number of you folks assisting and recording parts, a la "Playing for Change" (if you guys dont know about Playing for Change, google it and check it out).

Hmm, maybe I should just start writing a blues song: "The UPS Lost My Tele Blues" . . . I could probably manage writing a simple 12 bar blues number . . . It probably needs to be in the key of F . . . as UPS gets an F for a failing grade . . . and I've always found F to have a more mournful, sad feel to it . . . Of course, it will have to be in F minor.

After my experience with them
, I came up with " It's it brown , flush it down . Don't let UPS bring it to your town .

[HOBBSTER01]

I know my route driver for both UPS and FedEx.
After a couple harrowing experiences with them early on I decided the best practice was to get to know them.
If this problem is driver error then the package probably was dropped at the wrong location.
(Good luck if that's the case)
If there was a theft it probably happened at the warehouse where most workers are not full time employees.
I would request that the terminal manager physically hold my guitar at the terminal for pick up.
I have done this before with much success especially on expensive items.
Good luck.
Keep us posted.

[bossaholic]

If it is warehouse employees, makes you wonder how they can walk out holding a large flat rectangular box without someone taking notice.

[Geoff738]

Originally Posted by HOBBSTER01

I know my route driver for both UPS and FedEx.
After a couple harrowing experiences with them early on I decided the best practice was to get to know them.
If this problem is driver error then the package probably was dropped at the wrong location.
(Good luck if that's the case)

But this required a signature, correct?

If it made it onto the truck for delivery, but they can't find it there, you might want to request that they show you the signature.

And if they can't, you might firmly, but politely, suggest that something is amiss. A guitar packed for shipping isn't that small a package. Unlikely to get "lost".

My thinking is that if they have (via their tracking) the package on a truck for delivery (not sure if they do or not in this case) and it requires a signature, and they can't find it or produce a signature you either have theft, or a driver not following procedures/negligent. (Or it's not on the truck it was supposed to be on - which could be anything from a mistake to theft). In either case, I would request that UPS sanction the driver (anything from firing him or her to retraining) and that you be informed of what actions they take and why (they should have a policy on all this stuff. Ask to see the relevant sections and see if they actually follow them in your particular circumstances.) I suspect they may have an ombudsman/ head of customer (dis)service. If this doesn't get resolved to your satisfaction soon, I'd go that route.

But hopefully, you won't need to do that. Mistakes happen. It's how they get dealt with that really makes the difference.

Cheers,
Geoff

[El Tedesco]

I like the fact that this thread has now over 2500 views. It may not help the individual, but it may have effect on the overall picture.

If UPS drivers or UPS employees get away with theft in this company ...

Let's hope for the best.

[brewwagon]

does the fbi know about this?
and to think that mark emery is americas most wanted god help us

bw

[shoretyus]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

I understand UPS has never lost a trombone

Did you know that trombones can be worth money too.. mine is worth more than a Kim tele.

[kp8]

Originally Posted by shoretyus

Did you know that trombones can be worth money too.. mine is worth more than a Kim tele.

BigDaddyLH knows. He's yanking yer chain. I believe BigDaddyLH rocks the t-bone as well. Bill Kirchen i beleeb also plays one. Trombones rule.

[Boubou]

Originally Posted by Guitar_Ninja

Incidentally, Apple has to have the best customer service of any company I've ever dealt with. And they obviously know something about their courier....

Try Lee Valley
For one thing when you receive your package it includes the label to return it prepaid postage.
Anyways, no affiliation with the company.
Where is the guitar??
Yeah I would feel like conducting the "interviews" myself

[Boubou]

Originally Posted by bossaholic

If it is warehouse employees, makes you wonder how they can walk out holding a large flat rectangular box without someone taking notice.

Doh!, the guy cut it in 2 pieces and took it out on 2 different days

[neocaster]

Originally Posted by Boubou

Doh!, the guy cut it in 2 pieces and took it out on 2 different days

Leave it to a UPS Driver to cut the neck off of a bolt-on-neck guitar...
Any word, nville?

[DougF]

First off, I admit I am biased because I work as a courier for Fedex Express. It is almost impossible for someone at Fedex Express to steal something as large as a guitar and get away with it. I am not knocking UPS because they are cheaper and are good at the king of packages they generally move. Fedex Express is a lot more scan intensive and it is very easy to narrow down who the last person was to touch the package. Our scanners are set up with individual employee numbers and the last two scans before delivery are actually done by the driver him(her)self. I would highly recommend if you are shipping something as valuable as a guitar send it insured with Fedex Express. Also, if you don't want it left at your house if you are gone, require a signature. We don't open up the packages to see whats inside before we deliver it. We don't know if it's a five dollar plant stand or 3K Les Paul. I hope this helps.

[djphelan01]

You can make it so that UPS requires a signature upon delivery when you ship something. I have doen that on all the guitars I have shipped (about 8). UPS also had told me that the only way the insurance works is if they packaged it. I've been lucky enough to had never found out if that is true.

I really hope that the OP gets his guitar or some kind of a settlement that he is happy with. I can't imagine the feelings the OP has right now. When ever I ordered a guitar I was so anxious that every noise I heard I would look out hoping it was UPS with my new guitar even though it wasn't expected to arrive for a few more days. I agonize enough just waiting the week it takes to ship when you do get it never mind the all the headaches when it doesn't arrive.

[boomboomba]

Originally Posted by djphelan01

... UPS also had told me that the only way the insurance works is if they packaged it. I've been lucky enough to had never found out if that is true.

It can't be true because they let you purchase insurance whether they package it or not. They'd be exposing themselves to legal action if they denied insurance claims solely because the shipper packaged the goods. However they will put the onus on the shipper to prove the goods were adequately packaged.

No one doubts that they make it exceedingly difficult to collect on the insurance.

[jim_pridx]

Originally Posted by DougF

I would highly recommend if you are shipping something as valuable as a guitar send it insured with Fedex Express. Also, if you don't want it left at your house if you are gone, require a signature. We don't open up the packages to see whats inside before we deliver it. We don't know if it's a five dollar plant stand or 3K Les Paul. I hope this helps.

While I've never had a problem with either UPS or FedEx, I can say that nearly every guitar I've ever had shipped to me has had a guitar company logo on the box which makes it quite easy to identify that it is indeed a guitar, even if the contents are of another company than the logo itself. Even the guys that deliver to me kind of chuckle while saying something on the order of "ahh, you have yourself another guitar!" My point is simply that it's quite obvious to most shipping handlers that there's a guitar inside that box.

[nvilletele]

No further word yet . . . they continue to "search" for it.

Re the bit about UPS and insurance, my recollection is that if a package is damaged in shipment, then you MAY have to prove it was well packed in order to recover . . . unless it was packed by UPS. I once had a damaged package delivered by UPS, and they say that I have to save the box, to prove it was damaged and to prove it was properly packed in the first place.

Now one thing that UPS has still not answered is how, all day long on Wednesday their tracking showed the box was "out for delivery" in San Diego at 8:10am. But after it went missing, from Thursday morning that item had mysteriously changed to "out for delivery" in San Diego at 3:42am. They say that the 3:42am scan shows an actual "physical scan" as opposed to what they call a "derived scan" (which are also used, and which are not actual scans, but some kind of assumption as to where the package should be, as opposed to where it actually may be).

I dont claim to fully understand how this works with physical scans and derived (also called logical) scans. But I do know it sure sounds fishy that all day Wednesday it said 8:10am (wednesday morning) out for delivery and then later (on Thursday) it is changed to an EARLIER TIME to reflect an actual physical scan at 3:42am on Wednesday morning.

UPS says it is very odd, and they have no explanation as to why the time for the "out for delivery scan" retroactively changed to an earlier time. I have insisted that they find out and explain it to me, as it seems someone is covering their tracks, but having a different scan (showing a different handling, a different scanner, a different truck maybe?).

Bottom line is UPS bites the big one no matter how you look at it.

Yesterday, I got another delivery via UPS - another large box, this time holding a keyboard and case. Big and large box, heavier than guitar. So I am out back with a contractor, and I see the UPS truck, so I run to the front, hoping it was my guitar. It wasnt, but I find the driver had gone into my open garage and left the box there, standing up but LEANING AGAINT MY CAR. Who in their right mind puts boxes on (or even leans boxes on) a car? Have you seen the scratches that boxes can put in car paint? They really can do it quite easily, as I once learned many years ago. IMHO, UPS drivers are lazy, and dont care what damage they do or may do. Oh, and apparently they like to steal guitars too . . . (hopefully that was not the case here, but I am not holding my breath).

[jbmando]

Originally Posted by ADK Teleman

That is why I deal with AMS...great service and they really do everything to make sure you get your gear!

Yeah, but they don't know how to pack guitars. I had two (2) Epiphone EB-3 basses shipped in unsealed guitar boxes, merely placed inside shipping boxes with no packing material around them, and BOTH of them had broken off A string tuner keys. The third one had the headstock wrapped in foam but STILL in an untaped guitar box and loose inside a shipping box. If that one had been broken I would have requested a refund and never bought a guitar from them again.

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

No further word yet . . . they continue to "search" for it.

Re the bit about UPS and insurance, my recollection is that if a package is damaged in shipment, then you MAY have to prove it was well packed in order to recover . . . unless it was packed by UPS.

This is what UPS wants you to believe, but it is not true. UPS operates under the regulation of the Federal Motor Carrier Act(s). Which state that they are responsible for delivering a package in the exact same condition it was in when they accepted it for shipment. Once they accept it and take it, the responsibility is entirely theirs...even if they subcontract the actual shipment to another trucking company.

Naturally, they want you to believe that whatever they tell you overrules Federal law. Are you gonna take their word for it?

[jim_pridx]

Well, I just hope you eventually get your Ron Kirn guitar. I'll have one coming from Ron very soon, and I'd be sick as hell if it ever became lost in shipping. I wish you the best!

[djphelan01]

Originally Posted by jim_pridx

Well, I just hope you eventually get your Ron Kirn guitar. I'll have one coming from Ron very soon, and I'd be sick as hell if it ever became lost in shipping. I wish you the best!

I don't think you have to worry. When I ordered my Kirn, Ron kept in touch with me about the shipping progress. When It arrived I had an email from him 5 minutes after telling me to get it and play it. He is first rate to deal with and his guitars are pretty good too!

[Mark Davis]

Originally Posted by djphelan01

I don't think you have to worry. When I ordered my Kirn, Ron kept in touch with me about the shipping progress. When It arrived I had an email from him 5 minutes after telling me to get it and play it. He is first rate to deal with and his guitars are pretty good too!

Yes but Ron didnt ship this one it came from a TDPri member.

[Mark Davis]

Seems like the closer it gets to the holiday season these things happen. It could be cause more packages are being shipped so chances of errors are higher or just plain dumbness.

The 2 things that bug me most are people that get hosed when they buy Fake Fenders and shipping companies that loose or break guitars.

[Kebmel]

I really hope your guitar turns up and I'm sure it will

but boy, the waiting is killing me!

[nvilletele]

I was able to find out the name of the driver whose truck the guitar was loaded onto, according to the scan records . . . He has of course claimed it was never on his truck. I am considering writing him a letter . . . all I have is his last name, but I can address it to him care of the local UPS distribution center . . .

I will of course give UPS some time to locate the guitar before I write to the driver . . . but assuming the guitar does not show up next week, what do you think I should say to the driver in this letter?

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by nvilletele

I was able to find out the name of the driver whose truck the guitar was loaded onto, according to the scan records . . . what do you think I should say to the driver in this letter?

You should tell him you're sending the Sheriff to get your guitar.

[El Tedesco]

This is really screwed up. Something's seriously fishy here.

Talk to your local Sheriff's department. This calls for a criminal investigation.

[Groovey Records]

Put it in the form of a song something like

He's a Guitar Stealing Truck Driven Man
And he's The Head of the Klu Klux Klan

[Ormond]

Send letters to the CEO and VP's of UPS...tell them in the letter that you are going to be sending copies to every member of the Board or Directors if you do not get satisfaction within a week.

Get names online at corporate website.

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by Groovey Records

Put it in the form of a song something like

He's a Guitar Stealing Truck Driven Man
And he's The Head of the Klu Klux Klan

Yeah, in the form of a Blues number...

He's a Guitar Stealing Truck Driven Man
And he's The Head of the dreaded Klu Klux Klan
He stole my guitar
And he made out of town
Now I'll never hear that Ron Kirn sound

I got the Blues
I got the Ron Kirn Blues
If I ever see that sucker
I'm gonna take out my gun
Have you ever seen a UPS guy weap and Run

I got the Blues....

Peter

[socialhero]

Here's some good info I pulled off the BBB website. Perhaps some of these numbers will put you in contact with somebody on their end who can shake some things up down the chain at the distribution faciity where you live.

It's also certainly a good idea to get your local law enforcement involved, considering the scans show that it was loaded onto a truck, and the driver of said truck is saying it never was (which is fishy in and of itself - you work for UPS, you move hundreds of boxes a day, how can you say with absolute certainty that a package was never on your truck?).


Business Contact and Profile for United Parcel Service Inc
Name: United Parcel Service Inc
Phone: (919) 790-7300
Fax: (919) 790-7228
Address: 1627 Navaho Dr
Raleigh, NC 27609-7532

Website: www.ups.com

Original Business Start Date: July 1907
Local Start Date: July 1976
Principal: Mr. Michael L. "Mike" Eskew, Chmn/CEO
Customer Contact: Mr. Greg Barr, Contact - (919) 248-4000 Entity: Corporation
Incorporated: April 1967, OH
Employees: 70
Type of Business: Delivery Companies
BBB Accreditation: United Parcel Service Inc is not a BBB Accredited business.
Additional DBA Names: UPS


Back to top
Business Management
Additional company management personnel include:
Mr. D. Scott Davis - SVP/CFO/Treasurer
Mr. Thomas H. "Tom" Weidemeyer - SVP/COO


Back to top
Additional Locations and Phone Numbers
Additional Addresses
Multiple Addresses - click to show / hide
+ NC (4)
2519 S Tricenter Blvd
Durham, NC 27713-1853

2401 United Service
Greenville, NC 27834
Mr. D. Scott Davis, SVP/CFO/Treasurer

201 Belltown Rd
Havelock, NC 28532-2703
Mr. Thomas H. "Tom" Weidemeyer, SVP/COO

4401 Atlantic Ave
Raleigh, NC 27604-1794


Additional Phone Numbers
Tel: (919) 872-0870
Tel: (800) 742-5877
Tel: (919) 790-7375
Tel: (800) 877-7096
Tel: (919) 790-7281
Tel: (919) 248-4000
Tel: (252) 830-4787
Tel: (919) 735-3046
Tel: (919) 790-7481


Additional Fax Numbers
Fax: (919) 790-7311
Fax: (919) 790-7375


Additional Email Addresses
ecl1jwh@ups.com

Get your phone dialin' gloves on!

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

This is what UPS wants you to believe, but it is not true. UPS operates under the regulation of the Federal Motor Carrier Act(s). Which state that they are responsible for delivering a package in the exact same condition it was in when they accepted it for shipment. Once they accept it and take it, the responsibility is entirely theirs...even if they subcontract the actual shipment to another trucking company.

Naturally, they want you to believe that whatever they tell you overrules Federal law. Are you gonna take their word for it?

That sounds over-simplified. If the item was insufficiently packed by the sender, how could they be expected to deliver it in the "exact same condition"? Say you put a Les Paul in cardboard box, then double box it, and carry it gingerly to the UPS and send it across the country. Ain't no way that guitar is showing up in the same condition it was sent. Why is that UPS's problem?

[Joe-Bob]

If it's not properly packed, then they can refuse to ship it. Once they accept the item and charge for shipping, the responsibility is entirely theirs; as it should be.

[Pvee]

How about reporting it to the local police with the evidence that they provided that it was out for delivery by a particular driver and he did not drop it off at YOUR house.

[JCSouthpawtele]

Originally Posted by socialhero

Sometimes it'll say "Out for delivery" all day and never show up, and you come to find it was because of a typo in the shipping label or just an obtuse driver who couldn't figure out your address.

Yeah I had a package sit in the snow for a week wondering where it was. Finally calling UPS and they said they left it by my side door. I don't have a side door and niether do my imediate neighbors, but down the street on the opposite side, my dyslexic delivery driver put my package at the house of a nieghbor who's numbers were mirror image of mine, was out of town on vacation. I looked at the box dusted off the snow to see my name and address. Picked up the box and walked back home. Luckily it was not a guitar, I would have been really mad. It was a rack compressor.

[Mark Davis]

I had a G&L S-500 shipped UPS back in 1998 checked on the web said it was delivered on Fri I never got it so was worried happened to go out on my patio on Sunday and there it was.

Another time I had a 1951 Fender 3 neck steel delivered UPS the web said it was delivered checked the apt manager they said it wasnt left there so I went all thru the apt complex and there it was leaning up against the door of apt #1 in plain view from the street anyone could have taken it I live in #101 and it was clearly marked #101.

There is no excuse for stuff like this! Now when someone is shipping me stuff I always ask how they are shipping it and request USPS. Since the buyer usually pays for shipping they should have their choice and USPS charges the least of all carriers.

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

This is what UPS wants you to believe, but it is not true. UPS operates under the regulation of the Federal Motor Carrier Act(s). Which state that they are responsible for delivering a package in the exact same condition it was in when they accepted it for shipment. Once they accept it and take it, the responsibility is entirely theirs...even if they subcontract the actual shipment to another trucking company.

Naturally, they want you to believe that whatever they tell you overrules Federal law. Are you gonna take their word for it?

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

If it's not properly packed, then they can refuse to ship it. Once they accept the item and charge for shipping, the responsibility is entirely theirs; as it should be.

Sorry, but you're severely mistaken. When you ship with UPS (or any other carrier) you have to sign an agreement accepting their terms and conditions.

UPS does not accept responsibility for improper packing. If you don't agree to this, they won't take your package. Period. No federal law overrides this.

[Dave W]

Getting back to the OP, I sure hope they locate your guitar.

If they eventually determine that it's lost and offer a settlement to the seller, you and he should understand that accepting a settlement means you give up any rights to the guitar if it turns up later.