Warning to those who sell on Ebay / take Paypal

[imsilly]

It is a double edged sword.

I remember the days when ebay was first around and you had to do crazy things like send wads of cash in the mail to pay for stuff. Paypal is definately and improvement in that way. It is also a system heavily weighted towards the buyer. I think it's somewhat of a pain in the arse, but I reckon the safer buyers feel the more they buy. I think direct credit card payments, rather then through intermediaries like Paypal would be best. That way you get immediate payment to the seller and insurance to the buyer.

[ce24]

I'm no power seller but I only accept MO's or cashiers checks then I mail the goods when the $$ arrives....I won't buy from a seller who only accepts paypal... just my business MO...and my 2c

Cheers
CE24

[Hackguitarist]

First, let me say hat to get a NEG feedback from me you have to actually screw me. I do not give a Neg easily or often, actually rarely. I will do neutrals with good commenting. Or ignore all my messages and then respond only after I file a claim. ;O

I had one seller who after a problem with what he sold me, defective item, he sent me a message "How about a full refund in exchange for 5 star positive feedback" I just copied that directly, that was his exact words.

Guess what feedback I left him? I actually quoted his text, and said "How about earning 5 star positive feedback? Defective Item!"

I wonder what impact a prospective buyer might get when reading the feedback.

[Hackguitarist]

Originally Posted by ce24

I'm no power seller but I only accept MO's or cashiers checks then I mail the goods when the $$ arrives....I won't buy from a seller who only accepts paypal... just my business MO...and my 2c

Cheers
CE24

Last time I tried to add the text 'Money Order' eBay flagged it and i could not even enter the auction until I removed it.

[62_Inca_Esquire]

Originally Posted by ce24

I'm no power seller but I only accept MO's or cashiers checks then I mail the goods when the $$ arrives....I won't buy from a seller who only accepts paypal... just my business MO...and my 2c

Cheers
CE24

Ebay doesn't allow any payment options but Paypal anymore. They changed that about 4-6 months ago.

[J-man]

Originally Posted by 68 Shovelhead

I got burned by a user who demanded positive feedback before he shipped my item, I had already paid him for item/shipping. I neged him for feedback blackmail and never saw my item. I disputed with Ebay and after many lengthy emails they ended up basically saying it was between us.

I'm done with Ebay and Paypal, if they're not going to mediate disputes, then their service is of no value IMO.

Did you really expect him to ship it after you left him negative feedback?

[Mike Eskimo]

How many customers will eBay have to lose before they go back to what was already a perfectly good system!?

That is the question.

We'll see.

That is why I love to use Ebay as an "offer-magnet".

Get the thing out there in front of millions and then receive offers from interested parties, go with the highest, cancel the auction, they PayPal you, you send it out.

Sure - ya pay PayPal fees (or you could take a USPS MO) but you're not paying Ebay fees.


Hello Ebay ?

You mess with me I'm gonna mess w/ you.

Ooops ! I already have been !

Bwaaahhaaaahaahhaaahaahahhaaaa !

[ravindave_3600]

Originally Posted by Mike Eskimo

"Positive feedback must be received before item is shipped" and then I'll explain why.

THAT'S going to inspire a lot of bids

Selling to dopes w/ 0-15 transaction is always a total cluster**** .

As big "11", thanks for the vote of confidence. The only time I've been in a dispute was a couple of years ago with someone who had 1000+ transactions and decided AFTER I won the pedal that the $7.50 she'd quoted for shipping wasn't enough and invoiced me for $22.50. For shipping a pedal. Fortunately I'd printed out the "you've won" page, reported her to ebay, and held her feet to the fire until she cancelled the transaction. At that point I didn't mind not getting the pedal, as dishonesty (like honesty) is something a person either has or doesn't have.

[jimmybusk]

I believe my last episode on ebay, was selling a 1952 gold top . I think the starting bid was $10,000 ,and i took the whole package [ extra pics, Top of page banner,for more exposure,..etc. I think it was approx $75 to list. So ,one minute after I had listed it,I clicked on the auction ,and to my surprise,There was "NO reserve" on the item, And someone already bid one dollar.[ Until this day, I can swear that I put the $!0,000 reserve in,but perhaps it wasn't there ,when I "reviewed before posting"........, 'Anyway,I immediately called them to "repost" ,which was not easy. The guy 'walked' me through this big 15 minute ordeal ,in order to relist,and I lost the extra 75 bucks.

[Mr.Reed]

Originally Posted by Mike Eskimo

I've got 700+ transactions w/ 100% positive (which means nothing anymore now that it's a yearly thing) and haven't had anything held.

If I do I will put the following on all my listings :

"Positive feedback must be received before item is shipped" and then I'll explain why.

I'm also giving up selling to anyone w/ less than 50 transactions.

Selling to dopes w/ 0-15 transaction is always a total cluster**** .


Once they stripped sellers of the right to leave negative feedback the nasty writing was on the wall.

That's just not nice. I only have a feedback of 33... just cause I don't buy a lot of things off the bay, doesn't mean I should be assumed to cause a cluster****.

[Mr.Reed]

Originally Posted by Hackguitarist

First, let me say hat to get a NEG feedback from me you have to actually screw me. I do not give a Neg easily or often, actually rarely. I will do neutrals with good commenting. Or ignore all my messages and then respond only after I file a claim. ;O

I had one seller who after a problem with what he sold me, defective item, he sent me a message "How about a full refund in exchange for 5 star positive feedback" I just copied that directly, that was his exact words.

Guess what feedback I left him? I actually quoted his text, and said "How about earning 5 star positive feedback? Defective Item!"

I wonder what impact a prospective buyer might get when reading the feedback.

That to me is mean. The guy was going to give you a full refund for the item... that is customer service. He wants that 5 star rating and you want the item. Full refund gets you the item. You were out of line IMO, just because it's defective. Maybe have the entire transaction negated (doesn't go on either persons record)... but not being spiteful and leaving negative feedback for no apparent reason.

[jwl325]

I think this had to be a glitch. I don't sell much on the 'bay anymore, I try to stick to forums like this.

But after no luck for several weeks on an amp, I moved it to the 'bay and sold it in about 2 days. Over $1K on the sale, and I was able to move the money right away. I generally wait until I know the buyer has the item and it arrived in tact, etc., before removing the money anyway, just in case something was damaged in shipping.

Bill

[Hackguitarist]

Originally Posted by Mr.Reed

That to me is mean. The guy was going to give you a full refund for the item... that is customer service. He wants that 5 star rating and you want the item. Full refund gets you the item. You were out of line IMO, just because it's defective. Maybe have the entire transaction negated (doesn't go on either persons record)... but not being spiteful and leaving negative feedback for no apparent reason.

Out of line eh? Except that his reply to my initial message that the item was defective was not, sorry, I will replace it. Only "How about a full refund in exchange for 5 star positive feedback". So that counts as offering to refund in your book does it ?

More data needed; maybe I should mention my reply to his offer to refund in exchange 5 star feedback that I till need the item and being the auction showed 20 available, i would just like another one and would appreciate it if it was looked at before sending as the problem was obvious. No repy after several attempts to get the needed item. So there is your unfair feedback timeline...

[Don Mare]

between PP fees and ebay fees and the time lost packing stuff and driving it to the post office...

I think I'm going to just keep posting up my ads on Craigslist until all my gear I am selling is gone -- Looks like there will be NO profiting for ebay from any of my personal gear sales -
I'm unloading about 15k in gear to go get a truck and two scooters - for fun times ahead! Yippie!

[mickeydean]

i remember when my mom finally got on eBay. she expected everybody to behave like it was a retail store. she acted like it was Sears not the cool flea market it used to be.

multiply that by a couple million and that's why eBay sucks now. it's my mom's fault.

there is a lot of money to be made if somebody could get the old eBay type operation up and running.

[Mike Eskimo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eskimo View Post
"Positive feedback must be received before item is shipped" and then I'll explain why.

THAT'S going to inspire a lot of bids

If you got the good stuff, people will bid.

Quote:
Selling to dopes w/ 0-15 transaction is always a total cluster**** .

As big "11", thanks for the vote of confidence. The only time I've been in a dispute was a couple of years ago with someone who had 1000+ transactions

Right, and the only time I've had hassles has been with people 20 and under.

Gun shy on the newbees. So what ?


Like I said, I've been around the block and my favorite transactions are w/ other folks who've been there too and who realize how crappy Ebay is now and are willing to step outside it and complete the deal w/ out Ebay getting their cut.

Sure, Ebay gets my listing fee but the final value fee is what kills you.

[68 Shovelhead]

Originally Posted by J-man

Did you really expect him to ship it after you left him negative feedback?

That's completely trivial to the point I was getting at. Of coarse I expected the seller to make good on his threat, I quoted his threat in his neg feedback, maybe you allow yourself to be pushed around, I don't. I relied on Ebay to resolve the matter, which they did not. The point is a trade medium without rules or enforcement of said rules is of no value, at least for the honest guys.

[J-man]

Originally Posted by 68 Shovelhead

That's completely trivial to the point I was getting at. Of coarse I expected the seller to make good on his threat, I quoted his threat in his neg feedback, maybe you allow yourself to be pushed around, I don't. I relied on Ebay to resolve the matter, which they did not. The point is a trade medium without rules or enforcement of said rules is of no value, at least for the honest guys.

Maybe the guy was in the position that I and many others have been in where we can't afford to ship an item until we have the money from the sale?
Somebody asking for positive feedback before shipping is hardly pushing you around.

[studio1087]

Originally Posted by Hackguitarist

Last time I tried to add the text 'Money Order' eBay flagged it and i could not even enter the auction until I removed it.

Yes. They scan every posted ad for key words. I always used to take paypal or a US Postal Money Order and my ads always said this. I got a warning email about 18 months ago saying that after a certain date, I would not be allowed to say anything about money orders of any kind. They said that they would remove auctions with such verbiage.

I sell pedals. I've sold many amps and about 10 guitars. I have had many bidders PM me through the ebay message system that they want to pay with a check or money order and not use paypal. I always respond through PM that I will take a US Postal Money Order but they should mail it the day after the auction.

You can still sneak around the rules to help buyers out but I won't be surprised if they start scanning PM's for key words.

The Paypal people are watching us. We're being scanned.

John

[RiverDog]

Originally Posted by Brian blaut

that's the problem with monopolies. They have you by the short and curlies. You do it their way or you do without. :(

Speaking of Monopolies, I hadn't sold anything in a while and I was pretty surprised when I listed something recently and got blasted by Ebay for offering to accept a money order. Apparently you can ONLY ACCEPT PayPal now. No money orders, no checks. I wonder who benefits from that?!? I think there was another electronic payment method mentioned but I had never heard of it.

[RiverDog]

Oh, and by the way 5 days ago they deleted my auction because I put "like new" in the title of the auction.

Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because the following information violates our policy:

in title: Like new

To make it easy for buyers to find what they're looking for, sellers need to make sure their titles and item descriptions accurately describe what they're selling in the listing.

That's why listings can only include keywords and other information that are directly relevant to the item for sale, and sellers should clearly describe both the item and the terms of the sale.

It's getting to be ridiculous.

[Lathem]

Originally Posted by J-man

Somebody asking for positive feedback before shipping is hardly pushing you around.

I don't know if it's "pushing you around," or not, but it's certainly reprehensible conduct. If I act in good faith and send the seller payment immediately, it's unacceptable for them to hold onto what is now my property until I send positive feedback (or perform any other action, for that matter).

I just checked; my feedback is 77 (all positive) after 11-1/2 years as an eBay member. It would likely be three or four times that number if I didn't refuse to cater to sellers who would withhold leaving feedback until I gave them a positive. I make it a point to pay instantly when I win an auction--within five minutes unless I need to wait on the seller to give me a final total. Once that's done I've lived up to my end of the bargain.

I haven't read eBay's terms of use for a very long time, but holding feedback hostage used to be against the rules. I don't know if that's still the case or not. I just know it's exceptionally bad form. IMHO, of course.

[J-man]

Originally Posted by Lathem

I haven't read eBay's terms of use for a very long time, but holding feedback hostage used to be against the rules. I don't know if that's still the case or not. I just know it's exceptionally bad form. IMHO, of course.

Before the policy in question was introduced I would agree with you, but when I sell something I want the money BEFORE I ship.

[68 Shovelhead]

Originally Posted by J-man

Maybe the guy was in the position that I and many others have been in where we can't afford to ship an item until we have the money from the sale?
Somebody asking for positive feedback before shipping is hardly pushing you around.

I already mentioned he was paid in full for item & shipping before any trouble started.
As for the other, somebody asking for pos feedback is not the issue, a seller demanding pos feedback before they ship your item is. That's called feedback blackmail, and it damn sure is being pushed around.
But again, the details of my bad deal are not important to the point I was trying to make about Ebay, and what it meant to this thread

[1977CJ5]

Same thing happened to me. I have 80 transactions with 100% positive feedback. I sold a G&L Tribute Bluesboy last winter and they held my funds. I reluctantly sent the item, but required a signature. Glad I did that, because the buyer would not respond to any of my emails and never left me any feedback. It took about 3 weeks and a bunch of phone calls from me to get them to release my funds. The only reason they did was because of the signature. I have avoided using Ebay since. I kind of understand there policy, but it seems really slanted towards the buyer.

[jjkrause84]

Originally Posted by RiverDog

Oh, and by the way 5 days ago they deleted my auction because I put "like new" in the title of the auction.



It's getting to be ridiculous.

I'm sorry but "ridiculous" is on "The List"....you're gonna have to remove that....

[Lucretia]

Originally Posted by Mike Eskimo

Once they stripped sellers of the right to leave negative feedback the nasty writing was on the wall.

Well, I had someone do this to me after I contacted them and gave them about 2 weeks to respond, they didn't, so I left negative feedback, they responded by complaining that I ruined their feedback, that I didn't contact them (I did) and then they closed their account to start again. eBay then informed me that they couldn't get rid of this feedback even though it was purely malicious.

Luke.

[DMace]

Considering the degree of dissatisfaction among ebay users, I'm really surprised no one has introduced a viable alternative. I'm sure they're out there, but none to my knowledge have caught on.