Lack of half-decent musicians!...?

[Lerb21]

Granted I live in a small town, but still it there seems to be two kinds of people who play music. A lot a REALLY BAD people, and a few really good people.

My father and I gig together, for a few reasons that you can easily guess, but it's so hard to find anyone who can play decently. We know about 3 good bass players (scary good) and they are all employed by good bands. My bass player is simply a friend who I taught the bass to. It kinda sucks for him because we discovered after a while that he (oh jeez how do I say this without sounding like a jerk) lacks rhythm. Anyone who could be considered a drummer are either stereotypically lazy, talented and hired, or have no rhythm.

It's a shame because I want to gig more than anything and I hate having to play lead, sing harmony, mess with the drum machine and direct the bassist all at the same time.

Okay, I'm done venting.

[Tim Armstrong]

I know you love playing guitar, but you might consider playing bass yourself. As you already know, a MUSICIAN who plays bass is like gold!

Tim (who is like gold! )

[beep.click]

Move to California; bring your dad. I'll play bass... AND sing harmony!

[klasaine]

I will 2nd Tim's advice. Learn to play bass. I have a bass playing "alter-ego". Many good guitar players where I live also gig on bass.

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I know you love playing guitar, but you might consider playing bass yourself. As you already know, a MUSICIAN who plays bass is like gold!

Tim (who is like gold! )

Tim, you are indeed gold.

I actually bought this for that specific purpose:

Rondo Bass 1.jpg

It's just there no lead guitarists either...

[Flannel Pat]

Lerb, we should get together and play sometime. I don't know where New Florence is, but I live what I am assuming is up the road in Indiana. I know how you feel, unfortunately.

[91xlntS-3]

I know the feeling! I used to have an address book filled with names & phone numbers of all the local musicians. If you needed someone to fill in, or wanted to put something together, you just started calling. Not any more...

I am now playing 3 piece (guitar,bass, drums) as there are no other guitarists available to add the 4th piece. Hasn't been a problem, but I miss having another guitarist to "play" off of. Gigging has also slowed down, and I wonder how much longer the other local clubs will continue to have "live" music.

If you & your Dad ever move to Indiana, just give me a call!!

[trag-o-caster]

Everything that Tim said (do ya notice how all great Tim's think alike?), and.....

Try some solo acoustic gigs. Do you sing? Can you fingerpick? I just noticed that your age is listed as 16. You've got a lot of time ahead of you. Learn to finger - or hybrid pick, and play bass lines, while throwing chords over top of them. You can be your own band that way. I've gigged a bunch either solo acoustic, or with a drummer buddy providing light brushes underneath me. It's surprising how much you can sound like more than one person playing together.

I've had HUGE troubles over the years with band members - drunks, drugs, egos, etc. etc. and stopped gigging for a long time. When I decided to come back to it, it was the solo acoustic act that really got me going again.

I've since started another band made up of guys who are non-drinkers, tired of typical band B.S. and we all get along great. Now, they're not the greatest musicians in the world, and I often have to pull 'em aside and give 'em a little tutoring, but they're dedicated, and love doing it.

Good luck to you!

[mickeydean]

bass player = bomber pilot
lead player = fighter pilot
bass player = offensive line
lead player = running back
bass player = guts
lead player = glory

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by Flannel Pat

Lerb, we should get together and play sometime. I don't know where New Florence is, but I live what I am assuming is up the road in Indiana. I know how you feel, unfortunately.

It's in Northeast Westmoreland County.

I'm actually closer to Ligonier if you know where that is. My address is New Florence though. (Go Figure )

[Flannel Pat]

I know exactly where Ligonier is. You on AOL?

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

Everything that Tim said (do ya notice how all great Tim's think alike?), and.....

Try some solo acoustic gigs. Do you sing? Can you fingerpick? I just noticed that your age is listed as 16. You've got a lot of time ahead of you. Learn to finger - or hybrid pick, and play bass lines, while throwing chords over top of them. You can be your own band that way. I've gigged a bunch either solo acoustic, or with a drummer buddy providing light brushes underneath me. It's surprising how much you can sound like more than one person playing together.

I've had HUGE troubles over the years with band members - drunks, drugs, egos, etc. etc. and stopped gigging for a long time. When I decided to come back to it, it was the solo acoustic act that really got me going again.

I've since started another band made up of guys who are non-drinkers, tired of typical band B.S. and we all get along great. Now, they're not the greatest musicians in the world, and I often have to pull 'em aside and give 'em a little tutoring, but they're dedicated, and love doing it.

Good luck to you!

I've spent a fair amount of time with a D sized Martin. I can do the alternate Bass picking strum thing, hybrid pick half decently, and travis pick a bit. I can also do some stuff with a thumbpick.

I'm not the best at this stuff quite obviously, but I can do them well enough.

Thank you for the adice.

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by mickeydean

bass player = bomber pilot
lead player = fighter pilot
bass player = offensive line
lead player = running back
bass player = guts
lead player = glory

Okay! I get it.

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by Flannel Pat

I know exactly where Ligonier is. You on AOL?

No I don't have AOL.

I do have yahoo....

[dr. love]

Well, I'd offer my help on bass, but it's a little too far of a commute from here.

I think this problem exists about everywhere... I know out in the wastelands of West Texas, we have the same thing. Lots of the good players are:
A. Already overemployed.
B. College students who go home every weekend/holiday.

Just do what you do and try and play with what you have for now, it may lead to other opportunities or connections.

[getbent]

keep up the hunt. Run ads regularly in craigslist... keep asking around... you'll find someone... like a lot of things if you are unwilling to quit, eventually it works out.

[sean79]

You might find some Pitt-Johnstown students who would want to play. Aren't you pretty much between the eastern suburbs of Pittsburgh and there? Where do you and your dad gig?

[Lerb21]

map.jpg

Yeah, I'm a little on the Johnstown side, but I rarely meet any college students...

[Rombel]

+1 on picking up the bass yourself.

A number of years ago, I did it to help a friend out who had the same problem as you.
I've been gigging with him regularly for the last 8 years, at VERY nice venues and for high paying gigs. The extra income comes in handy, but the benefits don't just end there.

I've been getting a lot of calls because of the extra exposure (leading to more $$), and it also proved to be a very valuable musical lesson. I made me get in the groove a lot more, and to stay in the pocket, something i transpose to my guitar playing gigs as well. So I'm an all-around better musician for it, and I'm never stuck whenever I need to lay down a bass line on a track.

While you're at it, hone up your mandolin, banjo, keyboards and singing chops.
Being a multi-instrumentalist means you're less likely to go hungry and frustrated!

[Oskar]

I can understand your frustrations, but on the other hand try not to think of yourself as "too much better" than others. This can be a trap for yourself down the road and you may end up finding yourself with no one to play with because no one is "good enough." Also, have a little patience. I started out teaching a guy to play guitar about 16 years ago and he was dreadful, lacked rhythm couldn't find notes, etc. Ten years later he fronted his own blues band and I played bass for him. It was great to see him finally find his "groove." The suggestion someone made of doing some solo acoustic, or even electric, gigs is a good one. We would all love to find the perfect musicians to play with us, both in terms of character, personality and musical ability. But it rarely works out that way.
And remember, no matter how good you will get in life, I'll guarantee you that there will be someone, somewhere who could play circles around you.

[sean79]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

Yeah, I'm a little on the Johnstown side, but I rarely meet any college students...

Maybe you can post in the Altoona-Johnstown craigslist thing. I've never done anything like that, but you never know what you'll find. Might try the Pittsburgh craigslist too.

Ask around in music stores, post flyers, but keep looking.

[emiller45]

I have always played guitar. Funny thing though, when I was working in the studio in more demanding situations, I was often tagged to play bass because I had an extensive theoretical knowledge and actually understood what a bass was supposed to do. (I hope that doesn't sound too arrogant).

Bass is often the default position for worst guitar player in the band which is unfortunate because a good bass player is like gold. I like it when the bass player is the best musician in the band - a lot like riding my Electra Glide

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by Oskar

I can understand your frustrations, but on the other hand try not to think of yourself as "too much better" than others. This can be a trap for yourself down the road and you may end up finding yourself with no one to play with because no one is "good enough." Also, have a little patience. I started out teaching a guy to play guitar about 16 years ago and he was dreadful, lacked rhythm couldn't find notes, etc. Ten years later he fronted his own blues band and I played bass for him. It was great to see him finally find his "groove." The suggestion someone made of doing some solo acoustic, or even electric, gigs is a good one. We would all love to find the perfect musicians to play with us, both in terms of character, personality and musical ability. But it rarely works out that way.
And remember, no matter how good you will get in life, I'll guarantee you that there will be someone, somewhere who could play circles around you.

I was actually trying to allude to the fact that I'm 'Half-Decent' with the thread title. I'm not trying to make it seem like I have high standards or anything, I just don't want to have to tell my bass player what how to the notes in a g chord in the middle of a gig.

[Rombel]

While we're on the subject...

You're still a kid. I have children older than you, and bad habits even older than they are, so this comes from experience.

i know your geographical location may not be ideal to do so, but try to find people who are older and better than you are, and sit in. This will give you invaluable playing experience, regardless of the genre and style they're playing. Soak in as much as you can, and strive to put yourself in situations where you'll have a chance of learning something. However dismal or lackluster it may be, a playing session can always teach you something. It can be disheartening, it can be frustrating, it can be intimidating and even humbling, but you'll be a better musician for it.

While developing your skills is a must, developing an attitude is not.
I'm not saying you are, I'm just picking up on something that was mentioned and which I think is important. Auditions are a great way to learn about yourself. You get very little time to learn parts and arrangements, and you have to step up on that high wire without a net (and sometimes people trying to knock you off of it).
It doesn't get any easier as you get older, you just get more used to it, and know how to deal with it.

Best of luck to you.

[spicolli]

when i was a few years younger than you are i was in the same situation(small town,lack of decent musicians,etc) and when i was about 14 or 15, i started looking for older musicians to gig with and i ended up finding a band when i was 14 or 15 that i ended up gigging with 3-5 nights a week for almost 10 years straight and got alot of valuable experience/knowledge, and also made alot of money in the process.

now making it to school on time or even at all somedays after playing gigs all over the northeast USA/some of canada was a challenge, and i do recomend you still finish school even if you dont get the best grades(i missed almost half of the school days each year but still graduated with almost 90 average in everything), it will help you find a job for when getting the gigs isn't happening.

i will also add that alot of the material we played in that band wasnt really what i wanted to do, but it was good experience to play music i didnt care as much for because that opens up more gig options for you if you are willing to play anything needed.

as others mentioned above also being multi instrumentalist is a very good thing, my main instrument is now and has always been drums, but i learned to play guitar and bass(even played in bands with both and was great experience),a little keys,i can sing when needed even though i really would rather not most of the time.

good luck in your eternal search for that great band, if you keep at it you will eventually find what you are looking for, but small towns sometimes make that search seem to take forever.

[getbent]

hey, just a thought... why not horn into one of the 'good bands' that the good bass players play in. I think a guy can learn a lot by being 'just a sideman'. One of my favorite quotes is from Joey Harris who at 17 started playing lead guitar for a pretty big star... in talking about Chris Whelan (my favorite all time bass player) he said about Chris, "I was 17 and Chris taught to keep my mouth shut when a big man was gonna talk."

I say worm your way in to the best band in town and do that through high school

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by getbent

hey, just a thought... why not horn into one of the 'good bands' that the good bass players play in. I think a guy can learn a lot by being 'just a sideman'. One of my favorite quotes is from Joey Harris who at 17 started playing lead guitar for a pretty big star... in talking about Chris Whelan (my favorite all time bass player) he said about Chris, "I was 17 and Chris taught to keep my mouth shut when a big man was gonna talk."

I say worm your way in to the best band in town and do that through high school

Looks like I'll have to see if anyone wants a pedal steel player...

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by mickeydean

bass player = bomber pilot
lead player = fighter pilot
bass player = offensive line
lead player = running back
bass player = guts
lead player = glory

bass player = employed 5 nights week/3 bands
lead player = regular craigslist poster "Want to start a band, need bass player"

[rextasy]

Even in Nashville, Lerb, it's hard to find someone you fit with. Or someone who isn't determined to make it in the business.

[Alnico Sunburst]

If there are a lack of decent musicians in your town you must help out to make more of them. I applaud the fact that you are teaching a friend to play. Appreciate that it can take a while for some things to sink in, and that if you are someone who is a bit more advanced, it can be really hard to recall what your own state of mind was back when you were entirely clueless about how to play.

Think about it - creating music is one of the most powerful mind altering substances known. The more hours you have spent doing it, the more your neural pathways have been permanently altered, which in turn alters your perceptions of it. Doesn't it feel sometimes like playing music is something you have always been able to do?

This raises the "assumed knowledge" factor to a large degree - there are aspects of playing that are so deeply ingrained in you that they are autonomous like breathing, or your heart beating.

You couldn't articulate them or explain them in such a way to your friend that he would understand, anymore than you could try to teach someone to breathe or to have a heartbeat.

If you taught your friend how to program your drum machine and showed him a bit on guitar and he had some multitracking software on a computer, he could start to make up his own little songs, and would likely become a much better bassist as a result of knowing a bit of the other guy's job, as well as getting to really hear himself.

You're 16. You have lots of time and opportunity to start cultivating some future musical collaborators. Encourage as many non-musical friends as possible to try out a guitar or a bass. The desire is there in many people, and suitable instruments have never been so plentiful and inexpensive as they are today. The problem is that "music" has been turned into something that is neither of, or for the people anymore. You can help to change this. You could build a scene in your town.

I wish you success!

[TG]

I'm lucky that I've got 'work' as a guitarist, but I understand that I would probably be much busier if I were to focus on the bass. And if I didn't love playing guitar so much and have these bands I would go that direction.
I have been playing bass in a friend's jamming band for a while now and it's quite a lot of fun. It's a different sort of mind-set from being a guitarist with regards what your purpose in the band is and how you approach being 'expressive'. You can be every bit as inventive and experimental as you would be playing a guitar...so long as you don't stop being (forgive the pun) the base of the band.
To me, good bass playing is there but often taken for granted. Unnoticed...until it stops and the rest of the band goes to bits. It takes skill to do it right.

[Leon Grizzard]

I agree that you can get work if you play bass; there are never enough competent bass players. And playing bass will make you work better with the rhythm section, etc. when playing guitar. There is some danger in getting typecast as a bass player, and folks not thinking of you when they need a guitarist. But if you want to play guitar, consider seeing if your bass player is willing to work some on whatever deficiencies. It would be to his advantage to get better; he would get a lot more pleasure out of playing well, or could later dump you and get better gigs (tajs). Or not.

Just today, my band leader/pedal steel player was telling me how the bass player in another band he works with had a falling out with the leader/rhythm player/singer over the latter’s deficiencies in starting off tunes; stuff like counting off and calling out the key. They talked it over with the result that the bass player and leader are having sessions working those deficiencies, to good effect. The steel player said it has gotten a lot better already. (Practice, you say?)

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

Granted I live in a small town, but still it there seems to be two kinds of people who play music. A lot a REALLY BAD people, and a few really good people.

My father and I gig together, for a few reasons that you can easily guess, but it's so hard to find anyone who can play decently. We know about 3 good bass players (scary good) and they are all employed by good bands. My bass player is simply a friend who I taught the bass to. It kinda sucks for him because we discovered after a while that he (oh jeez how do I say this without sounding like a jerk) lacks rhythm. Anyone who could be considered a drummer are either stereotypically lazy, talented and hired, or have no rhythm.

It's a shame because I want to gig more than anything and I hate having to play lead, sing harmony, mess with the drum machine and direct the bassist all at the same time.

Okay, I'm done venting.

I will apologize on behalf of the bad musicians since I am one.

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I will apologize on behalf of the bad musicians since I am one.

Sorry, I feel like a real jerk now.

[garytelecastor]

Okay, you guys have convinced me. I am going to start working on my bass skills.

[boris bubbanov]

When your brother is a bass player, then you WILL know quite a few good bass players, that's the way I always found it to be.

Are you close enough to Indiana, PA? I use to date a gal that moved up there; she knew all kinds of musicians there going to school there when I visited her a couple times.

Central PA. Every campsite has 5 porcupines and 20 skunks. Think carefully before you open that package of food!

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

When your brother is a bass player, then you WILL know quite a few good bass players, that's the way I always found it to be.

Are you close enough to Indiana, PA? I use to date a gal that moved up there; she knew all kinds of musicians there going to school there when I visited her a couple times.

Central PA. Every campsite has 5 porcupines and 20 skunks. Think carefully before you open that package of food!

Well, my brothers a mechanic... Hmm...

I am not too awful far from Indiana, not too far north...

Yes our wildlife is indeed 'unlike any other'.

[guitaradelic]

Here is another option, play the "Chapman Stick". Then you can cover bass and lead. I saw a demo by one of the guys from "Kittyhawk", it was quite impressive. It's kinda like Stanley Jordan but with 10 or more strings.

[Rombel]

Playing the Chapman stick would be awkward in a John Lennon tribute band.

Ono, the humanity...

[Alnico Sunburst]

"Cold Turkey" would kick ass on a Chapman Stick.