Joe Satriani Sues Coldplay For Plagiarism!!

[ecsong187]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7766683.stm

Here is how he figured it out most likely:


Go Joe!! It amazes me that people in today's world are still trying to get away with plagiarism of music.

thanks
edwin

[Jackson Jackson]

Wow. I'm really shocked Joe would sue them. I highly doubt this was intentional on Coldplay's part.

I've worked with Joe's drummer, Jeff Campitelli and I've heard that he's a great guy on every level, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on his motives, but I am shocked.

[Cygnus]

Wow ... he's certainly got a good case

[Jakedog]

I don't care how good a guy Joe is, if I were him, I couldn't let that go. That Coldplay song is all over TV, radio, the net, it's saturating everything. And if Joe's came first, he ought to get a piece of it. They are far too much alike to deny the similarities. You can't copyright a chord progression, but being that the two songs are identical in both progression AND melody, I think he'll win his case.

I would just hope that rather than going for an ugly court smackdown, they can reach some kind of payment/royalty agreement that's good for everybody. That way, Coldplay gets to keep the song out, Joe gets tons of exposure from it, and a fair piece of the millions of copies it's selling. I'd be willing to bet Coldplay outsells Joe at least three to one, probably more. He could come out of this really well on a lot of levels, if everybody is willing to hash it out without being nasty.

[Skully]

Just wait. They'll find they're identical to some other tune that predated both of them.

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Skully

Just wait. They'll find they're identical to some other tune that predated both of them.

I hope I wrote it!

[Jackson Jackson]

Originally Posted by Skully

Just wait. They'll find they're identical to some other tune that predated both of them.

I guess that's my point. I just have a hard time picturing Chris Martin listening to to Satriani's tune and thinking "hey, I could slap some lyrics on this bad boy and have a hit!"

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by Skully

Just wait. They'll find they're identical to some other tune that predated both of them.

Damn, you're right. I have it in my head right freakin' now, and I can't place it. It's a little new wave 80's ditty. I'm dead serious. It's right on the outskirts of my brain. I'm going on a mission. Talk amongst yoursleves while I dig through about a thousand stored cassettes. I WILL find it.

[JKjr]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I don't care how good a guy Joe is, if I were him, I couldn't let that go. That Coldplay song is all over TV, radio, the net, it's saturating everything. And if Joe's came first, he ought to get a piece of it. They are far too much alike to deny the similarities. You can't copyright a chord progression, but being that the two songs are identical in both progression AND melody, I think he'll win his case.

I would just hope that rather than going for an ugly court smackdown, they can reach some kind of payment/royalty agreement that's good for everybody. That way, Coldplay gets to keep the song out, Joe gets tons of exposure from it, and a fair piece of the millions of copies it's selling. I'd be willing to bet Coldplay outsells Joe at least three to one, probably more. He could come out of this really well on a lot of levels, if everybody is willing to hash it out without being nasty.

+1. My bet would be that Skully's right on the money as well.

[hekawi]

well, it does make for a pretty cool mash-up.

[nosuch]

Originally Posted by Skully

Just wait. They'll find they're identical to some other tune that predated both of them.

my first thought when I listened to it!
anyway the coldplay song may be similar but not identical to satrianis instrumental.

[TBoneDeluxe]

Creaky Boards should sue Coldplay also!

Chris Martin was actually was in the audience at one of their shows and heard their song before he "wrote" his.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KEGHfQuZJY

[Balky Mule]

It's not an exact match, but I'm reminded of Marty Balin's "Hearts."

[FenderBenderNY]

it's also a Creaky Boards song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUhFLiw6h6s

[momotrucker]

as Chuck Berry said:

" there is nothing new under the sun "

the first thing i thought too was " i've heard this melody before "

it conjures up an 80's 'Spandau Ballet' type band and that is an image

and memory that doesn't need reflecting on!

[FenderBenderNY]

Originally Posted by TBoneDeluxe

Creaky Boards should sue Coldplay also!

Chris Martin was actually was in the audience at one of their shows and heard their song before he "wrote" his.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KEGHfQuZJY

We must've been posting at about the same time! Sorry!

[lobotomyactivist]

Honestly? Joe probably isn't the first person ever to put those notes over those chords, and Coldplay could release something I wrote and sell a million of them.

[CrazyManAndy]

How exactly do you sue for this sort of thing? What are the legal issues at hand?

I was under the impression that musical plagiarism, if you want to call it that, is a pretty common thing. So many composers/songwriters/bands have done it (even the greatest of the great), that I couldn't count them all.

CMA

[Paul45]

Hmmmm......3 weeks shopping 'til Christmas.It's nothing but a cheap record company publicity stunt.And it''ll work.

[rextasy]

Litigation sounds downright civil compared to the story linked on that page about the kareokster who wouldn't get off the stage!

[lewis]

Same key, same bpm.

[Dan German]

There ain't much original in popular music. Coldplay's melody is very similar to to Satriani's, but primarily because of the oft-repeated 3 note hook. I'll leave it to people who care to decide whether it's plagiarism. As far as the Creaky Boards tune goes, it's no more similar than a thousand other pop tunes.

[Jakedog]

Figured it out!! Only had to dig through four suitcases of tapes!

Not as identical as I first thought, but check out this melody when he starts singing:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77T0AncLKo

[rangercaster]

John Fogerty got sued for plagiarizing himself ...

[romo]

Got to admit, his guitar solo sounds pretty good layered over the Coldplay song!

[tiktok]

On one side, we have the largest earner for EMI records, a multi-platinum band at the peak of its global popularity. In the other corner, a guy whose combined catalog sales may almost equal the sales of the last Coldplay album. And they're going to argue over which of them stole a song from the Creaky Boards?

My guess is that Coldplay will not be losing any money.

[V-Man 809]

Sue or not to sue, I wish they'd release it, the mix I mean - that in my opinion is what Coldplay could sound like!!

[jhundt]

Chuck Berry - now if he got paid for every song that had the same rhythm, chord progression, melody, and key signature as his copyrighted recorded works - he would be so rich that he could hire Bill Gates to wash his windshield.

[WallyArms]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Figured it out!! Only had to dig through four suitcases of tapes!

Not as identical as I first thought, but check out this melody when he starts singing:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77T0AncLKo

Good catch on the New Order tune... I hear a lot of similarities in that melody too.

I suspect someone will find an even older tune with a similar melody eventually... this happens in all genres of music. I heard Faith Hill singing one of here big songs recently (Mississippi Girl) and it struck me as strangely familiar.... after a few minutes I realized it had a strong resemblance to Alabama's Song of the South.

[Unseen]

You know, if they can prove it was conscious, like Coldplay held a meeting, listened to Joe's tune, and proceded to copy it with some small alterations, great. Sue the bastards.

However, cases built on short strings of notes and a few chords in a progression...the legal system needs to be careful.

In these times when you can feed your IPOD or cell phone/MP3 player a melody and it will tell you its title and who wrote it, there must soon be a program (probably written for a bunch of copyright attorneys) that will sort through all the available recordings looking for similarities.

When that happens, it probably won't be worth it to even write music anymore, or at least not until the bar for bringing a copyright suit is raised considerably.

I love Joe, but I believe the similarities could be unintentional. As to whether this should entitle Joe to some money, I don't know...

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by Unseen

In these times when you can feed your IPOD or cell phone/MP3 player a melody and it will tell you its title and who wrote it, there must soon be a program (probably written for a bunch of copyright attorneys) that will sort through all the available recordings looking for similarities.

When that happens, it probably won't be worth it to even write music anymore, or at least not until the bar for bringing a copyright suit is raised considerably.

Oh, you can keep on writing music, it's the recording part that causes all the problems...

[tboy]

Originally Posted by Paul45

Hmmmm......3 weeks shopping 'til Christmas.It's nothing but a cheap record company publicity stunt.And it''ll work.

A man who looks beneath the covers. It's working already. Ingenius move by Joe's people. The background marketing noise out there is louder than a tornado, and not only are they breaking through, they stand to profit big outside of their own sales generated by the buzz. If all Joe wanted was a piece of the profits, he could have waited till just AFTER Christmas. Kudos! Great move.

IMHO, JS deserves every penny.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by tiktok

Oh, you can keep on writing music, it's the recording part that causes all the problems...

Actually you can keep recording as well.
It is the selling that gets you into trouble.

[Slow Reflexes]

I remember at the Crystal Ballroom show he did here in Portland a few years ago, he was talking about someone downloading a song off the internet if they wanted it - said if they really felt compelled to pay someone for it, just "send Lars a check" for a couple bucks. That got a good chuckle.

I dunno if it's an "accident" or not, but if it is then Coldplay oughtta at least try to come to an agreement with him and toss an apology his direction. Really, now that the precedent has been set with a band seizing ALL rights to a song that was merely based on a sample of a third party cover version (Bittersweet Symphony), I'm not sure anyone has any defense at all once the similarities are observed. Obviously a completely different lyric over a slowed down chord progression with flourishes and added parts that weren't even in the original is still plagiarism

[hekawi]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

Figured it out!! Only had to dig through four suitcases of tapes!

Not as identical as I first thought, but check out this melody when he starts singing:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77T0AncLKo

good catch with the New Order song. ever heard this acoustic cover version by the group Frente? even stripped down you still get that melody:

[Jahmbie]

Infringement is the more proper term than plagiarism. Here is a great website about Copyright infringement:
http://cip.law.ucla.edu/
My sister was at Northwestern University when her professor testified in the Bee Gees "How Deep Is Your Love" case. She thought it was hilarious that this prof had no idea who the BGs were. A friend of mine in Nashville did some musicological research on the Michael Bolton / Isley Brothers "Love Is A Wonderful Thing" case. The ultimate outcomes of these cases were pretty different. Proving copyright infringement is a pretty subjective process and most of these never get to court.

"A good composer does not imitate; he steals."
-Igor Stravinsky

[TELEkinetic]

Originally Posted by Skully

Just wait. They'll find they're identical to some other tune that predated both of them.

Right - They both ripped off The Chiffons' "He's So Fine" ......

[68tele]

They should tour together...bedwetter-pop meets xtreme-sports-video-music-bed-rock: it could work.

[Unseen]

Originally Posted by Slow Reflexes

Obviously a completely different lyric over a slowed down chord progression with flourishes and added parts that weren't even in the original is still plagiarism

I don't know. I think more than a potentially accidental/coincidental duplication or resemblance between two pieces should be needed to successfully sue for plagiarism, at least in terms of popular music. In literature, the possibilities are far more vast and the chance of two pieces resembling each other closely are far less likely than in popular music where we have only 12 notes to play with and are forced to use them within a very rigid structure (by comparison with literature).

So, don't you think some proof of mens rea (legal term meaning the intention to commit a wrongful act) should be required, at least as a standard for punitive measures, if not for injunctive measures (to stop the offense from continuing)?

[jazztele]

just downloaded that creaky boards tune. i rather like it...

and it sounds a lot more like the coldplay tune than the satch one, if ya ask me.

it's a very basic melody, and a very basic chord progression. kinda hard to say "plaigiarism."