I rented a Toyota Prius --48 MPG

[TDPRI]

I went to Tifton, Georgia for my 40th High School Reunion this past weekend and we flew to Atlanta and drove to Tifton 175 miles south of ATL.

Hertz had Toyota Priuses (Priui?) for rent so we thought it would be cool to give one a try for the weekend.

First, Hertz doesn't tell you how to start and operate the thing and it doesn't start like a regular car. I got it to go into neutral and rolled it into the middle of the road on my row in the parking lot. Finally someone came and told me, sort of, how to start it. That was embarrassing.

For the next few times we stopped we had to refer to the owners manual but we finally got the hang of it. Turns out you MUST have the parking break set or you cannot start the car. Who knew?

To our surprise the car worked very well and we didn't mind it turning off at traffic lights at all. It seemed so natural after just a little while. It always moved away quickly and when the engine started it was barely noticeable. I mean, you knew that it had happened but it wasn't odd or disconcerting at all.

Parking and such on the electric motor seemed just fine too.

We traveled 455 miles total in the car and used 9 gallons of gas -- for a total of 48 MPG. Mind you, we drove 320 of those miles at 75 miles per hour on I-75 from Atlanta to Tifton and back.

All in all we were impressed and liked the car quite a bit. If these were readily available, or if this technology was readily available, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car with this form of operation.

[chet]

The guy at the car rental place couldn't start it the first time he showed it to me.

The next time he knew how to do it and I thought it was pretty easy to operate.

They have a used one for sale now for around $23,000.00.

[octatonic]

I had a Prius for a couple of days last November.
They are fun, but I kept getting distracted by the HUD that shows when each motor is kicking in.

We get 42mpg in our Volvo D5 diesel- not quite as good, but really it depends how you drive.
If you are a high rev driver, constantly accelerating and decelerating then you'll get poor milage even from a Prius.
If you are a calm driver then you can get reasonable milage from most cars.

[Ricky D.]

This is economics, not politics.

My 2003 VW Jetta TDI was $18,000 brand new, and not sudsidized by tax dollars or mandated minimum unit sales requirements. 48 MPG in daily country-road commuting, 54 (!) MPG on a trip to Roanoke, Va., 350 miles of high speed mountain interstate driving. On a 12 gallon tank, that's almost 600 miles between fillups.

Prius is command driven economy, Jetta is market driven.

[Cross Roads]

1996 geo metro 4 door, 43-47 mpg at 65 on the interstate. 155,000 miles cost $5000 dollars 7 years ago used. If I go 75+ it drops to 38 mpg.
And the chicks really dig it, maybe cause I'm bald and they also dig bald men.....OK even my wife says it's ugly and I should wear a hat.

My work mate has a Prius and he claims 60+ MPG on the interstate. I believe he's getting it as well, he drives around 65-70 mph. Darn nice car, he bought right before the gas jumped up in price so he got a great deal on it as well.

Our speed limit is 75 and there is little or no traffic, we both commute around 70 miles each day.

[Nighthawk]

Originally Posted by octatonic

I had a Prius for a couple of days last November.
They are fun, but I kept getting distracted by the HUD that shows when each motor is kicking in.

We get 42mpg in our Volvo D5 diesel- not quite as good, but really it depends how you drive.
If you are a high rev driver, constantly accelerating and decelerating then you'll get poor milage even from a Prius.
If you are a calm driver then you can get reasonable milage from most cars.

Its true that how you drive very much affects your mileage and I find you get better mileage locally than on the highway, though I haven't used cruise much. Getting 46 + MPG. The car has good acceleration. Its fairly roomy. I like it. Driving the Prus has affected how I drive my Subaru and now I get better mileage there too. Oh, you can change the display to something less distracting or more distracting for that matter. Good car so far.

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by Ricky D.

mandated minimum unit sales requirements.

Prius is command driven economy, Jetta is market driven.

I agree that Diesel is a great alternative, but as I have commented before, I think you are incorrect about your assertion that the government mandates X number of hybrid autos be sold. I'm not sure where you picked that up, but I believe you are mistaken on that.

[Guitarzan]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

I went to Tifton, Georgia for my 40th High School Reunion this past weekend and we flew to Atlanta and drove to Tifton 175 miles south of ATL.

Ha, Tifton! You've been holding back on us.

Did you take pictures of the Krystal's rocket to show everyone?

It's a good thing that you had a good mileage car, it's been hard to get gas around here. Did you notice whether gas was available in S. Ga.?

The Prius has a problem in that it is an ugly duckling, and I'd be concerned if I could survive a crash in it. I'll be curious to see the cost of ownership issues in relation to battery durability and replacement. Moreover, I don't know that we've been fully able to assess all the true costs and issues with mining and production of batteries and then dealing with the waste.

Are there attractive hybrids on the market yet that get close to that kind of mileage?

[getbent]

Nice review Paul. I am supposed to be getting one after the first of the year... maybe the new one! (I don't actually care, I'm not a big car guy but I do want access to the HOV/Diamond Lane as a lone driver it will save me 6 hours a week)

As for comparing it to other cars (diesels etc above) the economics on a single user level may very well be factual... but the larger concept about hybrids is that if folks buy them then dollars will be poured into research and improvements will be made and the 'ceiling' in a hybrid is perceived to be greater than with, say, diesel.

Folks who buy the Prius are buying it in part to be a contributor to 'what will come' and not just what savings they can personally get today... So, sure, if your major consideration is 'what can I save for myself today'? then the jetta may be a better choice... but, if you are thinking about the community as a whole, about all potential drivers and future savings and viability for the whole mass of people... then investing in a Prius or hybrid makes some sense too.

It just has to do with your overall view...

[Norrin Radd]

I've got a Toyota Highlander Hybrid (it's a medium sized SUV). We get 24 MPG - at least that's what we averaged over the 1st 10,000 miles. That might not seem like a lot, but it's not bad for a car that big. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another Hybrid. Looking forward to see how the hydrogen experiment goes in Northern California.

[ccrnnr9]

They are pretty nifty cars however one thing "green" people overlook and is very representative of American culture (or even human culture) is that while they lesson dependence on oil as a fuel source, someone has yet to address the issue of what will happen to all those old prius electric batteries. The statistic I saw is that they contain very high levels of mercury that have no environmentally safe method of being disposed of. So while they are beneficial now, we may have a different story 8 years down the road when the first of them make their way to the junk yards en mass.
~Nick

[timmer]

Paul, I thought you already owned one? I'm confused.

[getbent]

Originally Posted by ccrnnr9

They are pretty nifty cars however one thing "green" people overlook and is very representative of American culture (or even human culture) is that while they lesson dependence on oil as a fuel source, someone has yet to address the issue of what will happen to all those old prius electric batteries. The statistic I saw is that they contain very high levels of mercury that have no environmentally safe method of being disposed of. So while they are beneficial now, we may have a different story 8 years down the road when the first of them make their way to the junk yards en mass.
~Nick

Battery toxicity is a concern, although today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

Being called 'green' or 'environmentalist' typically is used to marginalize folks. Like terms like 'pc' or 'neo con' they don't actually mean another other than a whole group of people are to be dismissed without consideration... Certainly not what Thumper's Mom would suggest and counter productive when folks are trying to figure out better ways to live.

I don't know a single person who owns a prius who think that they are the ultimate car nor the complete solution to energy dependence, thrift or sustainability... but they are an active step toward that goal. There are many reasons not to buy one, but there are a few good ones to consider them.

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by timmer

Paul, I thought you already owned one? I'm confused.

No, not even close.

[robt57]

My wife went with her friend to see her ailing dad last month. Her friend has a Civic Hybrid and they said they got 44.3 MPG average for the trip. Not hard to swallow that. My Greyhound [dogs] mover, an old conversion van with a raised roof got 13 once.... ;)

[Tim Armstrong]

I'd note that I owned a 1996 Saturn SL-2 sedan (a perfectly nice car, smallish but not tiny) with a 5-speed and a 4-banger that got 35-37 mpg all the time. Paid under a grand from it (friend sold it to me). I gave it to my nephew in February and he's still driving it.

And someone mentioned a Toyota Highlander Hybrid that gets 24 mpg, which is the same mileage that I get with my current car, a 1992 Volvo 240 wagon, which can carry five adults quite comfortably, or two adults and my band's entire PA system plus my bass rig. I paid $2200 for that one.

It just seems to me that paying $23k for a used car because it gets very good gas mileage is kinda like ordering a Diet Coke with your Big Mac...

But hey, I'm a bottomfeeder semi-pro musician, I HAVE to be frugal!

Cheers, Tim

[robt57]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

It just seems to me that paying $23k for a used car because it gets very good gas mileage is kinda like ordering a Diet Coke with your Big Mac...

Sure, go ahead and confuse the issue with facts.

You and I are both old enough to have seen the day when selling a 460ci linclon @ a $4k loss to pay $3k over sticker for a Honda was not uncommon. I bought a Olds Toranado back then for 3k under loan value and drove it until it had 175k mile on it. ;)

[getbent]

an interesting factor---> the Prius creates half the C02 in a year than most production sedans...

Again, the distinction isn't for the individual it is for the larger group. Anecdote + Anecdote ≠ Data. The only way we get to have alternative fuel cars, hybrid cars and cars that are not slaves to current technology is to make some and drive them and learn from them to make better ones. Tim, your method saves YOU some money but, in the long run, the folks who invest in the future will have a shot at having a better future.

Folks who buy Priuses are partially investing in that.

The pollution from a Toronado compared to a Honda... oof...

which is not to say that they weren't cool... but in the long run, the answer isn't in that technology...

An old friend said to me once, "If you stare at your navel long enough, it starts looking like the universe, the only problem is it is a pretty lonely place 'cause you're the only one in it."

Within that quote is the crux of why folks are willing to pay more for a prius or a highlander or the other hybrids...

[Tim Armstrong]

I hear ya, Randy, But if we were REALLY serious about consuming less and polluting less, we'd be working on alternatives that reduce or eliminate America's dependency on owning individual cars! I realize we live in a car culture, where hopping into your own personal ride is considered an inalienable right, but I know that if I could get to work via dependable and convenient buses or trains, I'd be all over that.

The large coach buses that I drive for my day gig get 6 mpg, a number that horrifies my passengers when they ask me about it. But I point out to them that if we have 57 people on the bus (56 passengers and me), we're getting 342 mpg/person.

I'd also note that on my trips to major cities where folks get around on foot/bus/subway, I see a whole heck of a lot fewer fat people than I do here where everyone drives! I'd include myself in that second group, I KNOW I'd be in better shape if I had to get around in NYC!

As recently as the 1940s, both of my parents as children lived in small town middle America in families that didn't own automobiles...

Cheers, Tim

[Buckocaster51]

If I drove much, and could buy one locally, I would certainly look at a Prius or a diesel VW. But I don't and I can't.

Back on August 25 I filled both the Mighty Ford Power Ranger and the Race NEON with some of the last non-ethanol blend gasoline in town. (One more mom & pop service station has bit the dust.)

Since then, while I push them out of and back in to the garage every day so I can spray goop, I have driven them a grand total of 107 miles.

(Most of that was on a "trip to the city" this past weekend to pick up some paint supplies.)

During that time I have put way more than 107 miles on my TREK.

And that is what life is like in Northeast Iowa.

[Rocks]

if they ever get it figured out on how we can safely run cars off methane we could just feed the driver taco bell (off the dollar menu of course) and have a hose sticking up out of the drivers seat.

[getbent]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

I hear ya, Randy, But if we were REALLY serious about consuming less and polluting less, we'd be working on alternatives that reduce or eliminate America's dependency on owning individual cars!

Don't disagree with any part of your post.... but, we don't get to choose as widely as we'd like in many cases. What we have are just a few choices... some lead us in a direction that could be helpful and some lead in a direction that we already know is not headed in the right direction.

They just approved a high speed rail system that will run from LA to SF and do it under 4 hours... It will run a few miles from our house and I"m pretty excited about it. Will it cost stupid money? yep. Will it take too long to complete? yep. But, in the grand scheme of opening up conversations and opportunities for what you describe it will go a long way... so, I support it and see what it CAN bring.

Everyone should be smart and be better and do more and be thoughtful and conserve and look out for each other... but, at this stage I cannot hold out for all of it at once. I'll take some single acts toward improvement and build on them rather than decry that folks aren't serious and keep my thumbs in my belt loops. The current hybrids are without doubt modest beginnings... but, I'll take a beginning knowing full well what we OUGHT to do.... I'm gonna do what I can and go from there..

But, I am a sappy optimist and many people DO laugh at me.

[Rocks]

If they could just make traffic lights so they made sense we could save millions of gallons of f