Internet Cd Sellers Shipping Collusion?

SINCASTER · July 30th, 2008, 05:18 PM

Until recently you could buy numerous cds from almost all of the big online sellers and get a shipping discount on all the cds after the first one.
No more.
Now all cds, 1 or 100 cost the same $5.99 - $6.99 each to ship.
Sellers will tell you that as they come from different warehouses they can't offer you discounted shipping.
My last dozen or so shipments left the seller within 48 hours of my order and arrived in one box.
Here's just one of many similar examples :

10 cds with a shipping charge of - $ 69.99.
Sellers actual cost to ship according to the postage label - $23.25.

I repeat, all cds came in the same box shipped within 48 hours of my order.
Different warehouses?
I think not.
That may be the case on occasion, but not for my last dozen or so orders.
This is now standard business practice for almost all the big sellers.
Are we being gouged?

tiktok · July 30th, 2008, 05:58 PM

The big online sellers have a lot of suppliers. A half dozen of the biggest suppliers may cover 80% of their inventory. The other 20% could be split up among fifty suppliers. The seller may have done some analysis on how diverse the average order was and gone to a one-price fits all model, regardless of whether multiple suppliers are involved in a given order.

Guitar_Ninja · July 30th, 2008, 06:00 PM

What country do you live in?

SINCASTER · July 30th, 2008, 06:06 PM

It's not an international shipping issue.
You could live next door to them and still be charged $6.99 per cd.

Guitar_Ninja · July 30th, 2008, 06:22 PM

Oh, okay. Well I thought maybe you lived in England or Europe. They have all sorts of weird gouging that goes on there. "20 miles out of town..." doesn't really indicate where you're from and you don't note in your OP where it's being shipped to.

I know that with Amazon, if you buy everything from them directly then you get their shipping discounts, but if you buy from their third party sellers then each item will be charged a shipping fee of $5.99-6.99, even if all of the items come from the same seller. That's to Canada.

Borgnine! · July 30th, 2008, 06:30 PM

The rotten Ba5tard5.

romo · July 30th, 2008, 06:49 PM

Amazon always does free shipping on CD's as long as you spend over 25 bucks. Of course its the slowest option but hey, its free.

SINCASTER · July 30th, 2008, 09:03 PM

I have no doubt the analysis tiktok mentions happened, but as most of the sellers I buy from operate a huge central warehouse, and none of the over one hundred cds I've received recently were shipped separately, I believe said analysis had this outcome in mind from the word goUGE. It's also curious that many of them " independently " changed to this policy within a matter of days. Admittedly they offer good purchase prices but if the experience of my most recent shipping costs are any indication, I believe the fix is in.
To add insult to injury many of them ship in cheap, lightly padded at best envelopes that requiring frequent replacement of busted jewel cases.

RodeoTex · July 30th, 2008, 09:35 PM

If you want 10 CDs, order them one by one over 10 days. Won't be any cheaper but at least you'll get your moneys worth in shipping.

I only buy CDs at half.common and get pretty good shipping rates.

Nick JD · July 30th, 2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borgnine!

The rotten Ba5tard5.

Bastard isn't a swear word!

Brutalblues · July 30th, 2008, 10:18 PM

Are you paying some crazy low, too good to be true, price for the CD's? Not saying I agree with their tactic, but I think you might be omitting some pertinent details. I would just buy somewhere else after dropping their customer service an email about my choice to go elsewhere. Not that they would give a whoot!

SINCASTER · July 30th, 2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutalblues

Are you paying some crazy low, too good to be true, price for the CD's? Not saying I agree with their tactic, but I think you might be omitting some pertinent details. I would just buy somewhere else after dropping their customer service an email about my choice to go elsewhere. Not that they would give a whoot!

Prices are only good to average.
A lot closer to average with the new shipping policy.
I have talked to customer service.
Total waste of time.
No details, pertinent or otherwise omitted.
They all decided to raise their prices at the same time.
Remind you of anyone?

e-merlin · July 31st, 2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodeoTex

If you want 10 CDs, order them one by one over 10 days. Won't be any cheaper but at least you'll get your moneys worth in shipping.

I only buy CDs at half.common and get pretty good shipping rates.

+1. Get your moneysworth. Sounds like they won't change and carping about something that you can have absolutely no effect on is like:

SINCASTER · July 31st, 2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-merlin

+1. Get your moneysworth. Sounds like they won't change and carping about something that you can have absolutely no effect on is like:

According to their feedback ratings, business is down by an average of 3% since the change in shipping rates.
I'd like to think that a lot of folks are p.o.'d and it ain't just the flaccid economy, but it may well be.
Either way, flogging the deceased equine isn't always the exercise in futility it's cracked up to be.

Durtdog · July 31st, 2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-merlin

+1. Get your moneysworth. Sounds like they won't change and carping about something that you can have absolutely no effect on is like:

Yeah, vote with your feet. Buy somewhere else.

SINCASTER · July 31st, 2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durtdog

Yeah, vote with your feet. Buy somewhere else.

Were that an option it would be done.
Unfortunately, collusion by nature eliminates alternative.
The point of this thread is not that it costs me a few more bucks for music, it's that broad based price fixing is despicable.

Dave W · July 31st, 2008, 02:34 PM

One merchant allegedly charged you $6.99 per CD shipping on a combined order, but you won't name them. Even Amazon overnight isn't that expensive, and they've always charged a per-item rate.

Collusion would require at least two merchants. You claim there's collusion but you don't name any others doing this. You just claim almost all the big sellers are doing this and you apparently think claiming it makes it true.

I buy CDs from Amazon, CD Baby and occasionally Buy.com. None of them have any such policies. If there are any larger online sellers, please name them.

You can buy 10 CDs from CD Baby and have them shipped UPS Overnight for $21 total. Even if you're not using Super Saver shipping, Amazon is only $1.99 plus .99 per CD. Even if you use Amazon Marketplace independent sellers, regular shipping is $2.98 per item. It's always been that way and it's clearly stated.

Guitar_Ninja · July 31st, 2008, 03:40 PM

Yeah, I'm finding this thread a bit odd.

You still haven't said who "they" are.

I'm not even entirely sure what country this is supposedly happening in, since you ducked that question.

Need more information, please.

SINCASTER · July 31st, 2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave W

One merchant allegedly charged you $6.99 per CD shipping on a combined order, but you won't name them. Even Amazon overnight isn't that expensive, and they've always charged a per-item rate.

Collusion would require at least two merchants. You claim there's collusion but you don't name any others doing this. You just claim almost all the big sellers are doing this and you apparently think claiming it makes it true.

I buy CDs from Amazon, CD Baby and occasionally Buy.com. None of them have any such policies. If there are any larger online sellers, please name them.

You can buy 10 CDs from CD Baby and have them shipped UPS Overnight for $21 total. Even if you're not using Super Saver shipping, Amazon is only $1.99 plus .99 per CD. Even if you use Amazon Marketplace independent sellers, regular shipping is $2.98 per item. It's always been that way and it's clearly stated.

I'm well aware of the policies of the sellers you mention as I use them often.
If it makes you happy I will list a few of many of the cd sellers I " allege " and " claim " no longer offer shipping discounts that reflect actual shipping costs :

MovieMarz
DVD Legacy
Red Tag Market
Mega Media Depot
North Key Movies
Kevhead Media
Crisp Movies

Feel free to use the full extent of your investigative powers to determine if in your opinion collusion is involved.

SINCASTER · July 31st, 2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar_Ninja

Yeah, I'm finding this thread a bit odd.

You still haven't said who "they" are.

I'm not even entirely sure what country this is supposedly happening in, since you ducked that question.

Need more information, please.

See above.
Country : U.S.A.

Guitar_Ninja · July 31st, 2008, 05:06 PM

Well, MovieMarz and Red Tag Market are both Chinese companies which operate out of Indian Trail, NC 28079. Same zip code and everything... Both have a history of complaints.

These are also all eBay sellers, which you didn't mention. I think everyone was assuming you were talking about Amazon.com and the like. These eBay businesses make their money by selling DVDs and such for very low prices and then gouging on the shipping. Notice that they don't offer combined shipping on anything. That's their business model. And why they can offer new CDs for $6-7.

I don't know if there's any collusion at work, but in all honesty I think they're far too small time to put something like that together.

SINCASTER · July 31st, 2008, 07:14 PM

My point is that until very recently numerous sellers did offer reduced shipping rates.
Now they don't.
Plain and simple, a semi - industry wide switch to charging triple actual shipping costs despite the fact that perhaps some of their products are on the lower end of market average still rubs me the wrong way, but I'll get over it.
Could be coincidence, could be collusion.
This symbol ? at the end of the heading indicates is it, rather than it is.

Dave W · July 31st, 2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SINCASTER

I'm well aware of the policies of the sellers you mention as I use them often.
If it makes you happy I will list a few of many of the cd sellers I " allege " and " claim " no longer offer shipping discounts that reflect actual shipping costs :

MovieMarz
DVD Legacy
Red Tag Market
Mega Media Depot
North Key Movies
Kevhead Media
Crisp Movies

Feel free to use the full extent of your investigative powers to determine if in your opinion collusion is involved.

Umm...no. You're making the collusion claim. It's up to you to back up your claim. You have no evidence of collusion. Just the names of some eBay sellers with the same policy, some even with common ownership.

These aren't "almost all the big sellers." Not even close. Just some large eBay sellers. As Guitar_Ninja said, it's just their business model. They can charge for handling as part of the S & H charge, and they don't have to offer discounts. You have plenty of other options if you don't like their policies.

SINCASTER · July 31st, 2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave W

Umm...no. You're making the collusion claim. It's up to you to back up your claim. You have no evidence of collusion. Just the names of some eBay sellers with the same policy, some even with common ownership.

These aren't "almost all the big sellers." Not even close. Just some large eBay sellers. As Guitar_Ninja said, it's just their business model. They can charge for handling as part of the S & H charge, and they don't have to offer discounts. You have plenty of other options if you don't like their policies.

Evidence of collusion?
Do you think if I had evidence of collusion I would be posing the question and asking for opinions here?
Just throwing out my experience of late to see if others share it.
I'm well aware I couldn't possibly make the case for collusion, but decided I'd raise the issue here and hope it was worthy of discussion.
If you are fine with " just some large eBay sellers " deciding to triple the cost of actual shipping and excusing it as " just a business model " that's one for the no collusion column.
Appreciate your input.

July 30th, 2008, 05:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
SINCASTER Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 20 miles outta town and cold irons bound Posts: 473	Internet Cd Sellers Shipping Collusion? Until recently you could buy numerous cds from almost all of the big online sellers and get a shipping discount on all the cds after the first one. No more. Now all cds, 1 or 100 cost the same $5.99 - $6.99 each to ship. Sellers will tell you that as they come from different warehouses they can't offer you discounted shipping. My last dozen or so shipments left the seller within 48 hours of my order and arrived in one box. Here's just one of many similar examples : 10 cds with a shipping charge of - $ 69.99. Sellers actual cost to ship according to the postage label - $23.25. I repeat, all cds came in the same box shipped within 48 hours of my order. Different warehouses? I think not. That may be the case on occasion, but not for my last dozen or so orders. This is now standard business practice for almost all the big sellers. Are we being gouged? Last edited by SINCASTER; July 30th, 2008 at 05:52 PM.

July 30th, 2008, 05:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
tiktok Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,188	The big online sellers have a lot of suppliers. A half dozen of the biggest suppliers may cover 80% of their inventory. The other 20% could be split up among fifty suppliers. The seller may have done some analysis on how diverse the average order was and gone to a one-price fits all model, regardless of whether multiple suppliers are involved in a given order. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/travishartnett http://www.myspace.com/sugarcanemutiny Pearce Amps Info Page

July 30th, 2008, 06:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
Guitar_Ninja Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 1,717 7 Photos	What country do you live in? __________________ "Envy is Not the Root of All Enmity"

July 30th, 2008, 06:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
Guitar_Ninja Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 1,717 7 Photos	Oh, okay. Well I thought maybe you lived in England or Europe. They have all sorts of weird gouging that goes on there. "20 miles out of town..." doesn't really indicate where you're from and you don't note in your OP where it's being shipped to. I know that with Amazon, if you buy everything from them directly then you get their shipping discounts, but if you buy from their third party sellers then each item will be charged a shipping fee of $5.99-6.99, even if all of the items come from the same seller. That's to Canada. __________________ "Envy is Not the Root of All Enmity" Last edited by Guitar_Ninja; July 31st, 2008 at 03:15 PM. Reason: It makes me feel like a big man.

July 30th, 2008, 06:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Borgnine! Tele-Meister Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 103	The rotten Ba5tard5. __________________ Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead---Charles Bukowski

July 30th, 2008, 06:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
SINCASTER Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 20 miles outta town and cold irons bound Posts: 473	It's not an international shipping issue. You could live next door to them and still be charged $6.99 per cd.

July 30th, 2008, 06:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
romo Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 247	Amazon always does free shipping on CD's as long as you spend over 25 bucks. Of course its the slowest option but hey, its free.

July 30th, 2008, 09:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
SINCASTER Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 20 miles outta town and cold irons bound Posts: 473	I have no doubt the analysis tiktok mentions happened, but as most of the sellers I buy from operate a huge central warehouse, and none of the over one hundred cds I've received recently were shipped separately, I believe said analysis had this outcome in mind from the word goUGE. It's also curious that many of them " independently " changed to this policy within a matter of days. Admittedly they offer good purchase prices but if the experience of my most recent shipping costs are any indication, I believe the fix is in. To add insult to injury many of them ship in cheap, lightly padded at best envelopes that requiring frequent replacement of busted jewel cases.

July 30th, 2008, 09:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
RodeoTex Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,453	If you want 10 CDs, order them one by one over 10 days. Won't be any cheaper but at least you'll get your moneys worth in shipping. I only buy CDs at half.common and get pretty good shipping rates. __________________ Turn it on, turn it up, turn me loose.

July 30th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
Brutalblues Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 1,181	Are you paying some crazy low, too good to be true, price for the CD's? Not saying I agree with their tactic, but I think you might be omitting some pertinent details. I would just buy somewhere else after dropping their customer service an email about my choice to go elsewhere. Not that they would give a whoot!

July 31st, 2008, 02:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dave W Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2003 Location: Guadalupe County, TX Age: 61 Posts: 1,809	One merchant allegedly charged you $6.99 per CD shipping on a combined order, but you won't name them. Even Amazon overnight isn't that expensive, and they've always charged a per-item rate. Collusion would require at least two merchants. You claim there's collusion but you don't name any others doing this. You just claim almost all the big sellers are doing this and you apparently think claiming it makes it true. I buy CDs from Amazon, CD Baby and occasionally Buy.com. None of them have any such policies. If there are any larger online sellers, please name them. You can buy 10 CDs from CD Baby and have them shipped UPS Overnight for $21 total. Even if you're not using Super Saver shipping, Amazon is only $1.99 plus .99 per CD. Even if you use Amazon Marketplace independent sellers, regular shipping is $2.98 per item. It's always been that way and it's clearly stated.

July 31st, 2008, 03:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
Guitar_Ninja Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 1,717 7 Photos	Yeah, I'm finding this thread a bit odd. You still haven't said who "they" are. I'm not even entirely sure what country this is supposedly happening in, since you ducked that question. Need more information, please. __________________ "Envy is Not the Root of All Enmity"

July 31st, 2008, 05:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
Guitar_Ninja Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 1,717 7 Photos	Well, MovieMarz and Red Tag Market are both Chinese companies which operate out of Indian Trail, NC 28079. Same zip code and everything... Both have a history of complaints. These are also all eBay sellers, which you didn't mention. I think everyone was assuming you were talking about Amazon.com and the like. These eBay businesses make their money by selling DVDs and such for very low prices and then gouging on the shipping. Notice that they don't offer combined shipping on anything. That's their business model. And why they can offer new CDs for $6-7. I don't know if there's any collusion at work, but in all honesty I think they're far too small time to put something like that together. __________________ "Envy is Not the Root of All Enmity"

July 31st, 2008, 07:14 PM	#22 (permalink)
SINCASTER Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 20 miles outta town and cold irons bound Posts: 473	My point is that until very recently numerous sellers did offer reduced shipping rates. Now they don't. Plain and simple, a semi - industry wide switch to charging triple actual shipping costs despite the fact that perhaps some of their products are on the lower end of market average still rubs me the wrong way, but I'll get over it. Could be coincidence, could be collusion. This symbol ? at the end of the heading indicates is it, rather than it is.