If it's true about violins...

[mojocasterman]

... does it also apply to guitars?

LONDON (Reuters) - Researchers using a medical scanner have worked out why a Stradivarius violin sounds so good -- it is because of the remarkably even density of the wood.
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For the past 300 years, musicians and scientists have puzzled over the unparalleled quality of classical Cremonese violins made by Italian masters like Antonio Stradivari and Giuseppe Guarneri del Gesu.

Now a Dutch doctor and a violin maker from Arkansas think they have cracked the mystery after comparing five classical and eight modern violins in a computed tomography (CT) scanner normally used to examine patients.

Using an adaptation of a computer program developed to calculate lung densities in people with emphysema, they were able to analyze the physical properties of violins without risking damage to instruments worth millions of dollars.

They found no significant differences between the median densities of the modern and the antique violins but did discover far less variation between wood grains of early and late growth in the old ones.

Since differentials in wood density affect vibration and therefore sound quality, the discovery may well explain the superiority of the Cremonese violins, they reported in the online journal PLoS ONE on Wednesday.

So why is the maple and spruce wood in a Stradivarius so different?

Part of the reason may be that trees grow slightly differently today than in the past.

"Climate difference could explain part of it but treatment of the wood could be another explanation. A third answer could simply be the ageing of the wood over the past 300 years," Dr Berend Stoel of the Leiden University Medical Center told Reuters.

"There is no way of knowing from this data; we've just shown there are density differences."

Still, Stoel and U.S. violin maker Terry Borman think the research may help modern instrument makers seeking to replicate the work of the Italian masters.

Their paper is available at http://www.plosone.org/doi/pone.0002554

[Durtdog]

Maybe acoustic guitars.

[GhostofJohnToad]

huh, so maybe a violin, made entirely of constant density plastic, could rival a Stradivarius.

[Tele Fan]

I always wonder if there were a bunch of junkers way back when and only the good violins survived.

[ajgus]

Violin.jpg

[Tele Fan]

So that's how you get a chin print on an LP.

[eryque]

I'm not sure this is a new discovery. I remember reading a few years ago that they speculated that Stradivari created even density tops and backs by holding them up to a window with a very bright source of light (like directly into the sun) so he could carve the top until the it was entirely even in density.

In any case, pretty neat stuff. Might be cool for an acoustic guitar luthier to try out. The top could be planed and sanded flat so it looks good and the variations in thickness done on the backside.

[charlie chitlin]

Originally Posted by GhostofJohnToad

huh, so maybe a violin, made entirely of constant density plastic, could rival a Stradivarius.

I bet you could get constant density dog poo, but it wouldn't make a good sounding instrument.

[Big John]

OK, i know it's apples and oranges but since Terry Downs made a guitar that sounded just like a Tele out of MDF i'm even more sceptical about what wood does and doesn't do.
I suppose we want the myths and magic to be true and i suppose it's all part of the romance, i thought some other experts had decided it was the waters reaction with the glue when the boards were steamed and microscopic critters in the river water getting in to the grain of the wood or somesuch ...........

Them are pretty fiddles though !

[mojocasterman]

Originally Posted by charlie chitlin

I bet you could get constant density dog poo, but it wouldn't make a good sounding instrument.

I demand that you provide your backing information for this statement

[SMPTE]

Consistent violins never solved anything.

[ramblinmike]

Originally Posted by Tele Fan

I always wonder if there were a bunch of junkers way back when and only the good violins survived.

Yea pretty sure this is the case. We're talking hundreds of years here. So the ones that sucked wouldn't have been treasured like the ones around today. If the instrument was popular, chances are there was SOMEBODY making cheap ones to get in on the craze.

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by eryque

I'm not sure this is a new discovery. I remember reading a few years ago that they speculated that Stradivari created even density tops and backs by holding them up to a window with a very bright source of light (like directly into the sun) so he could carve the top until the it was entirely even in density.

In any case, pretty neat stuff. Might be cool for an acoustic guitar luthier to try out. The top could be planed and sanded flat so it looks good and the variations in thickness done on the backside.

But you're talking about thickness which is not the same as density.

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by SMPTE

Consistent violins never solved anything.

There's just altogether too much sax and violins on TV today.

[eryque]

Originally Posted by Big John

OK, i know it's apples and oranges but since Terry Downs made a guitar that sounded just like a Tele out of MDF i'm even more sceptical about what wood does and doesn't do.

Pickups mask about 90% of the acoustic properties of an electric instrument. Wood on an acoustic instrument (and all sorts of other variables) have definite effects.

[Mark Davis]

You cant compare acoustic instrmnetns to solid body guitars.

Thats the whole reason for so many misconceptions about electrics peojple take things that do matter on an acoustic instrument and apply them to a solidbody electric.

Paint a violin with poly the thickness of a coin like the MIM's are and see what happens to the tone. SInce the top of the violin has to vinrate anything that hampers that will make it sound different on a solidbody guitar you dont want the top to vibrate thats why they were designed so the finiosh doesnt matter at all.

[hekawi]

Originally Posted by boneyguy

There's just altogether too much sax and violins on TV today.

Try to TUNE it out, they're just STRINGING you along

[SMPTE]

Originally Posted by boneyguy

There's just altogether too much sax and violins on TV today.

What happened to those good old fashioned values,
on which we used to rely?

Lucky there's a Family Guy....

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by Mark Davis

You cant compare acoustic instrmnetns to solid body guitars.

Thats the whole reason for so many misconceptions about electrics peojple take things that do matter on an acoustic instrument and apply them to a solidbody electric.

Paint a violin with poly the thickness of a coin like the MIM's are and see what happens to the tone. SInce the top of the violin has to vinrate anything that hampers that will make it sound different on a solidbody guitar you dont want the top to vibrate thats why they were designed so the finiosh doesnt matter at all.

I really, really wish people would realize this, but I'm afraid there's still a long way to go, 'cos many luthiers are constantly trying to convince us of the opposite ...

[casterway]

You beat me to this Mojo. I saw this in the paper today. What stood out for me was at the end where they talk about how the wood has aged over the 300 years. Goes right along with a recent post where it was RonKirn discussed how important it is to have the resins in the wood age properly over a long period of time. Makes sense as to why they sound today, but what about when they were new?

[winny pooh]

Do people even care about violins anymore since Hendrix plugged into a Plexi?

P.s good point Mark about the finishes on acoustics as related to electrics, will remember that.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by eryque

Pickups mask about 90% of the acoustic properties of an electric instrument. Wood on an acoustic instrument (and all sorts of other variables) have definite effects.

Yes, i understand that but given the hand wringing and arguments we sometimes have here about how weight and wood type effect the tone of a Tele and how Terry utterly blew that out of the water made me wonder if there is also a lot of pooh talked about wood and it's 'magic' properties.