Any Web Designers out there?

[mistermullens]

I've dabbled a bit (mostly HTML), love computers & the Internet, and I was thinking about really getting into it. Even going back to school for it. How do you guys like it? Any money in it? My wife is a Graphic Arts Designer and we could even start our own business. What are you thoughts?

[51tele]

sorry--------------just finished reading about spiders on another thread -------got confused

[kingnimrod]

the money is just not there like it used to be. It's all I did for years until it really bottomed out in 02-03. It's come back a bit but now design firms are working for the same money freelancers used to get for it.


It's a good service to offer, but it won't make you rich like it used to. When I lived in Seattle and was looking for a place to live, telling people I was a web designer bypassed the need for a credit or background check. the good old days.....

[blacklove]

The term "web designer" is kind of a throwback term, really, imo. I considered myself a "web designer" back in the early 2000's but consider myself more of a "designer" now. I contract out things I don't do very well, like Flash and the more advanced CSS programming. There are some hotshots who can do everything start to finish (I hate 'em ) but I'm sadly not one of them.

If your wife is the "eye" and you're the "programmer", you might be really marketable. There's a LOT of stuff to learn on the programming front, though.

A big thing now is dynamic content. Check this out:

http://www.csszengarden.com/

[TDPRI]

Yes, Web design can be a good job. You have to have design talent, marketing savvy and programming skills to succeed. There are designers making hundreds of thousands of dollars on a website, and others make $35 on a website. Your ability and your ability to attract customers with real money to spend will make all the difference.

I bid on many sites and win some and lose some. When I lose them it's because the client has "cheap" and "quick" in mind. Not, "good."

I will bid, $7,500 to design and code a site and find that I'm up against others bidding $1,500 for the same job. Luckily many of my clients see the value in my work. Otherwise, I'd be in real trouble.

Here's a site I designed and coded this years: http://www.airforcefcu.com

That one sold for a lot more than $1,500 I can tell you.

By the way, there are millions of clients that think $300 for a website is a lot of money. You have to be smart enough to NOT go after clients like that.

[AZMIKE]

I am currently enrolled in a Web Design curriculum at a local junior college. My background is actually in corporate communications, mostly on the marketing side. Basically, I am a writer, and I wrote a lot of ads, brochures, videos, and news releases. It has been hard finding jobs for the last few years, but I kept noticing ads for "Web Editor" and "Web Content Manager." They wanted the writing/editing, but they also wanted some other things, like HTML, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash, etc. I was somewhat familiar with web publishing, as I learned to do my own modest little site from a "For Dummies" book. I also did a site for a local hiking group as a volunteer.

Anyway, I got a brochure from the junior college in the mail one day, and they had a Web Design certificate program that included a lot of the previously mentioned courses. Eighteen hours, which is six courses, and I am on track to finish in a year. Kind of interesting going back to college nearing the age of 60. I got my English degree in 1970, and I took some MBA courses in the mid-80s, and this is the first time I have been to school since then. I am enjoying the hell out of it, however, and I do think it will lead to steady employment.

Mike

[Grin'n'pick]

I used to be an 'interactive developer' for a top web design agency here in London. We did exciting work for well known clients, it was all new, and it was exciting. When the first blip happened though I jumped ship into another profession but all of my colleagues who stayed with it are still doing pretty well. Some are still doing EXTREMELY well.

As said above there is plenty of money to be made from the web but it is important to keep on top of the technologies and always be looking ahead at which new ones will be available. You need to be able to provide solutions and those solutions need to be usable. Good web work is about functionality first and foremost.

I don't know your level of expertise, so forgive me if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs in the following, but... I'm not sure you need to go back to school yet. Especially if you are going to work for yourself. There are already zillions of kids coming out of every school and college in the developed and not so developed world well trained in graphic design, computer science, and any other applicable courses. Be proactive. Most of the practical stuff can be learned on the web itself, it is a great resource.

Learn HTML, learn CSS, learn some scripting languages, learn Flash. Most importantly, learn about usability and functionality. Really study how good web sites work from the end-user's point of view. Look into information architecture, navigation, and accessibility. If that comes together by all means then go off an maybe take some classes in how databases work and how to interact with them. Then if you're really serious do some proper programming. In my day it was all Java, but I think C# and .Net are ubiquitous too nowadays (although I have dropped the ball so don't quote me).

Maybe think about college when you have a better understanding of which areas you really do need actual tuition in. You can teach yourself the general stuff, and don't forget you'll be teaching yourself a lot along the way if you do this as a career. If you're working for a company by all means let them send you on courses, but remember that you'll still be experimenting, getting advice from others, learning from books and the internet, and working on REAL jobs to really nail it anyway.

If your wife is a graphic designer you're quids in there, although if she has not designed for the web before she will need to look into many of the same things as you so that she gains a true understanding of what is realistic in a page design. Print designers with no empathy for the web medium were always the bane of my life. She should look to learn Flash too, Flash is still a good payer.

The best thing about many of the jobs in this sphere is that you are actually creating something, which if you are that sort of person is very rewarding. Looking back that was as good as the money, I got a lot of satisfaction working on the web which sadly I now miss. But also remember that it is a job, there are often very tight deadlines, clients with less knowledge than you dictating how things should be, and the limitations of emerging technologies to frustrate you. But all in all it is a great industry for sure.

Good luck!

[mistermullens]

Nice job, Paul. Very easy to navigate and it looks good too!

[octatonic]

The best money is in corporate, which is inherently less interesting work- more backend, less design oriented.

I got out of it in 2003 after 10 years in order to open a recording studio.
Best decision I've made.

[Nick JD]

If you're in it for the cash, rather than the "Job Satisfaction" (whatever that may be) I'd suggest to go whole hog and do a degree in programming/database management. HTML, flash, CSS (front end stuff) pays about half what back end stuff pays.

If you learn C (in its various guises), Java, PLSQL, scripting languages (CGIs) - you'll be employable until retirement for nearly twice as much moolah.

[TDPRI]

CSS is mandatory and I suggest some classes in that. Throw in some flash and the like too. College may be cheaper than independent classes.

I taught myself to code HTML in 1995 in notepad. That makes all the difference if you ask me.

Now, of course I'm using Dreamweaver 100% of the time, but it's a huge program with LOTS of capability. Luckily, I started with it at version 1.0 too.

Good design, good writing, good usability, good marketing and good programming make for good websites. It's a LOT of things. Not just one thing.

[stephent2]

Like the others have said, you need to be able to do everything in this market to make any $$s at it. I've been dabbling for years and my chops are old. I'm the worst kind, a visual designer.

I've found myself committed to a website for a friend and also having to learn a new application at the same time, my old Abode app is discontinued and it's time. I went with Freeway 5 Pro, I have the 450 page reference manual in front of me,... yikes. But Dreamweaver is the app for a pro.

Here's one of mine I did for a local band.

http://www.cazanovas.com/index.html

[Sleph]

By the way, there are millions of clients that think $300 for a website is a lot of money. You have to be smart enough to NOT go after clients like that.

+1...learn some skills and do a business plan so that you know what your time is really worth.

"Bulletproof web design" by Dan Cederholm is a book that I would recommend once you know the basics of CSS and XHTML.

You'll need to learn some flash...do a Google and there are online tutorials for learning Flash.

....and just to give you an idea I have Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, CSS edit, Xscope, Indesign, Word, Finalcut pro, Img2Icons Quicktime player and Logic open...right now...for 1 website...Dreamweaver alone wont cut it.

HERE is an old one of mine...
tip: it will slow down if you put your mouse in the middle of the screen.

[stephent2]

Originally Posted by Sleph

+1...learn some skills and do a business plan so that you know what your time is really worth. ....and just to give you an idea I have Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, CSS edit, Xscope, Indesign, Word, Finalcut pro, Img2Icons Quicktime player and Logic open...right now...for 1 website...Dreamweaver alone wont cut it.

HERE is an old one of mine...
tip: it will slow down if you put your mouse in the middle of the screen.

Wow Sleph. a complex and beautiful work, (past the balls) and the backend on TDPRI's site is just as beautiful in it's function.

And that illustrates the difference between a Pro (Sleph & TDPRI) and a Hack (me). Ya gotta have chops to be paid well. If not, you're doing Mom & Pop sites for $300 to $500 a crack.

[imwjl]

The ones I work with that make it have very strong skills beyond the obvious. That's typically business sense, other high level programming skills or superb sales skills. As in they can either make a web front end to a business system with good security and performance, they know they must make an efficient information machine, or they can buy a $25 hammer and sell it to somebody as a $5000 El Slammo.

My customers are increasingly less tolerant and less interested in designers and design firms. They are not seeing the payback because of the high percentage of people that either don't understand or take the time to understand their business and give them an information machine. Example would be a time, money, CPU and bandwidth wasting bunch of Flash cr_p or just not understand the business. Or they are less tolerant because they're not going to pay the agency's rate for simple tasks that are often not done right. Thus, we have a good explanation for the rates being lower yet there still being opportunity.

I would not give up your day job or reinvent the wheel before you know your new mode of life and making a living will work if you can't fund your life otherwise. It took a few years for my business to really work and right now we have a strange economy where I am not sure inflation has caught up in a lot of segments. Few if any of my customers have fully passed on their higher shipping costs, and some are in pain from higher materials costs as examples so I see reluctance to spend.

Good luck and hang in there.

[aunchaki]

Originally Posted by Nick JD

If you're in it for the cash, rather than the "Job Satisfaction" (whatever that may be) I'd suggest to go whole hog and do a degree in programming/database management. HTML, flash, CSS (front end stuff) pays about half what back end stuff pays.
If you learn C (in its various guises), Java, PLSQL, scripting languages (CGIs) - you'll be employable until retirement for nearly twice as much moolah.

+100

I was a "Web Designer" back in 1994. I made good pocket money hand-coding web pages in the days when all the webpage backgrounds were gray! (Mosaic anyone!)

By 1997 I'd moved up to back-end database integration and dynamic web page generation. Still, those guys need to know real HTML (not the auto-generated crap produced by Dreamweaver, etc...). Learn web-coding standards. Obey them. Make sure your pages are standards-compliant. It's easier to work with them (and come back to them later).

I designed high-end dynamic web systems, specing the servers, setting them up, designing, administering, training. Good skills, better money (6 figs, even after the bubble burst). I'd still be doing it (fun, challenging work) but I found something better to do (I'm a United Methodist Pastor). I got out in 2002.

The money's not pouring like it was in the Golden Age of Free Money, but it's still a good field for people with the right skills. Bottom line, start dabbling and see if you like the work. If you do, the money's out there.

[claudel]

Originally Posted by mistermullens

I've dabbled a bit (mostly HTML), love computers & the Internet, and I was thinking about really getting into it. Even going back to school for it. How do you guys like it? Any money in it? My wife is a Graphic Arts Designer and we could even start our own business. What are you thoughts?

My US $0.02.

Make sure you can handle the business angles as well as the creative.

Pick a niche, and target it in your marketing effort.

Once you get the hang of things and get a few different site templates built you might even be able to make a few bucks from the cheap clients.

Be sure to establish the scope of your involvement with your clients sooner rather than later.

Make it clear from the beginning to your clients what, if any, ongoing support they can expect after the initial delivery.

Establish a relationship with a good ISP that is experienced in web hosting and can provide you the tools that you are comfortable with.

I personally like Sonic, because they run LAMP servers and provide shell access. Other ISPs may better for your needs.

Get an old PC from wherever, load up a Linux or FreeBSD distro and install Apache, PHP, MySQL and a few other things on it as needed for a dev server.

This doesn't need to be expensive. Lots of PCs that are too wimpy for newer Windows versions work fine with Open Source software.

Building your own web server will give you much insight as to how things function.

Don't overlook the security aspects of your chosen technology.

Start off from wherever you are at, technologically, and decide where you want to get to.

There are many on line tutorials for website building that will allow you to increase your grasp of the technology at minimal expense.

Your own personal dedication and discipline will be the limiting factors.

Creativity and a good eye for what is appealing goes a long way.

Avoid cluttered pages and excessive amounts of annoying video cliplets and things that automagically invoke themselves like ear-piercing sound effects.

Even simply coded websites can look great and perform their intended function in a visually attractive manner.

I'm pretty much an amateur webmaster (20+ years industry experience in other roles) , but my first attempt at a "real" website turned out pretty nicely, if I can pat myself on the virtual back.

ISACA Las Vegas Chapter Website

Coded in HTML by hand, with a bit of PHP for a few pages.

Hmm. This got a bit long. Sorry.