My sports fan days are over (They shoot horses, don't they?)

Charlie Bernstein · May 16th, 2008, 12:36 PM

I'd never watched a sports game on TV all the way through, except for some bowling and roller derby when I was a kid. Too long, and not much happens - I've just never had the attention span to make it through a whole game.

Then, a little more than two years ago, my friend Steve turned Ellen (my wife) me onto the perfect TV game: the Kentucky Derby! A whole game in well under five minutes! And stuff is happening the whole time. No waiting to see if a millionaire dork in tight pants is actually going to hit the ball for a change. Those horsies are on the go. And you get to drink a mint julep while you watch the fun.

But Steve and his wife out of town this year, so I Ellen and I didn't make our (third) annual pilgrimage to their house to watch the race. But we picked up the paper next day, and there's a story about a dead horse at the Derby. Collapsed and had to be - uh - what did they call it? Put down? Destroyed?

What a way to go.

So today I saw Steve and thanked him for being out of town. Looks like we're going to have to think of another way to consume five minutes a year. Shouldn't be that hard. He's says he's been known to throw a May Day party or two...

=O[

ajgus · May 16th, 2008, 12:55 PM

Yeah, I kinda think in sports all the participants should be a) willing & b) know that there involved in a sport. But, to each his own. I've spent a little time at the track when I was a kid & had lots of fun, though.

However, I can't agree with you on the whole sports thing. I LOVE baseball. I've been a HUGE Cubs fan my intire life (25-16 to start the season, thank you very much). I'm also a HUGE Bears fan. Now I'll be the first to admit that watching a baseball game can be like watching dry paint get drier. But its the "chess game" that makes it so briliant. I guess its like everything else...everybody's into what they're into...

superchicken_VI · May 16th, 2008, 01:04 PM

Yeah, we're done with horse racing. We went to an inaugural steeplechase here years ago, it's now a big deal in the area. One of the horses broke a leg and was euthanized. We're horse people, and the disregard of the jockeys toward their mounts was the most vile display I'd seen in sports here in the states.

We watched the Derby this year, and it ended with my wife crying. Never again.

We're big sports people--we'll be at all 6 nights of racing here in Charlotte over the next 10 days, we're NBA Charlotte Bobcats season ticket holders, we go to the PGA and Champions tour events near us, we support local minor league baseball, hockey, and short-track racing. However, if a NASCAR driver gets hurt or killed, he knew that was part of the deal when he signed up. The horses don't.

I understand that those particular horses wouldn't exist the way they do without the sport, but that doesn't mean that the sport couldn't be improved. Take away the whip? I don't know the answer, and I love to watch the horses run, but not at the current cost to the animals. I never want to see horse racing banned, but it could be made safer for the horses.

e-merlin · May 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM

I wanted to watch the Kentucky Derby, but there's just so much crap leading up to the acutal race, I couldn't handle it.

I will, however, sit through every game of the NCAA Mens Basketball tournament! And I enjoy the NFL. I also am a motorsports fan, but I don't have to watch every NASCAR race, and open wheel is not my thing...

Guess I'm a sports nut.

chet · May 16th, 2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajgus

Yeah, I kinda think in sports all the participants should be a) willing & b) know that there involved in a sport. But, to each his own. I've spent a little time at the track when I was a kid & had lots of fun, though.

However, I can't agree with you on the whole sports thing. I LOVE baseball. I've been a HUGE Cubs fan my intire life (25-16 to start the season, thank you very much). I'm also a HUGE Bears fan. Now I'll be the first to admit that watching a baseball game can be like watching dry paint get drier. But its the "chess game" that makes it so briliant. I guess its like everything else...everybody's into what they're into...

There's a lot going on in a baseball game that the casual fan is not aware of. It's kinda like you say- sort of a chess game by the managers.
The problem is the players don't always execute.

Or hustle- which was the case yesterday with Castillo on the dropped fly ball to right.

chet · May 16th, 2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superchicken_VI

Yeah, we're done with horse racing. We went to an inaugural steeplechase here years ago, it's now a big deal in the area. One of the horses broke a leg and was euthanized. We're horse people, and the disregard of the jockeys toward their mounts was the most vile display I'd seen in sports here in the states.

We watched the Derby this year, and it ended with my wife crying. Never again.

We're big sports people--we'll be at all 6 nights of racing here in Charlotte over the next 10 days, we're NBA Charlotte Bobcats season ticket holders, we go to the PGA and Champions tour events near us, we support local minor league baseball, hockey, and short-track racing. However, if a NASCAR driver gets hurt or killed, he knew that was part of the deal when he signed up. The horses don't.

I understand that those particular horses wouldn't exist the way they do without the sport, but that doesn't mean that the sport couldn't be improved. Take away the whip? I don't know the answer, and I love to watch the horses run, but not at the current cost to the animals. I never want to see horse racing banned, but it could be made safer for the horses.

What happened to that horse? Did the jockey try to make it stop too soon? Had the horse overtaxed it's ankle joints so much that they couldn't take it?

Both horse racing and dog racing's animals meet cruel ends for what I've read.

ajgus · May 16th, 2008, 02:22 PM

Appearently the horse just kinda tripped. Something to do with the track surface. It was kind of random actually.

I completely agree about the casual fan. Wrigley Field, one of the oldest & arguably the greatest baseball stadium, attracts a lot of "Wrigley Fans". People who just enjoy getting drunk & catching some rays. I enjoy those things too, but its because of these people that real fans, Cub fans can't get tickets to the games.

boris bubbanov · May 16th, 2008, 02:37 PM

My understanding is that thoroughbreds have been selectively bred to be as fast as they can possibly be, with no reserves of structural integrity should a foot be placed wrong. Kinda like the Lotus racecars of the 60's designed by Colin Chapman. With the Lotus you either won or died.
The breeding, combined with large doses of drugs to control pain and swelling are what permit the horses to go faster and faster, but they also explain why there've been breakdowns in 2 of the last 3 Triple Crown races. Eight Belles did not trip, her front legs just blew up.

Sure the horses having racing in their blood and are willing to give it all; the question is, should breeders be at liberty to create kamikaze horses in the first place?

Telepatio · May 16th, 2008, 02:42 PM

boris is exactly right about what happened. it was a fluke, but one that's been engineered over time.

i was there, it was pretty sad. i felt bad about cashing my ticket.

i think there's going to be new regulations as far as drugging goes. there really has to be...it's gotten out of hand. horses should be able to run a mile and a quarter without falling apart.

eight belles was a real beauty, and so is big brown. i think he's got a real legitimate shot for a triple crown. quite the athlete.

chet · May 16th, 2008, 02:42 PM

It looked like she stuck both legs in front to stop suddenly for some reason and the ankles couldn't take it.

There's a small horse farm near where I live and I like to watch them. There's a cute foal there now with it's mother. I really need to take it's pic.

mudbean · May 16th, 2008, 02:46 PM

I love sports. Most sports. Don't have time to watch much, though. Guess I'm glad I missed the Derby this year. HUGE Yankees fan, since before birth.

Nice start for the Cubbies, BTW, aj.

mud

jazztele · May 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM

i won a fair amount of money on eight belles...beginner's luck, i'm no gambler. i felt horribly guilty when she had to be "put down."

it really had me thinking...is that really the only humane thing to do? you really can't nurse a horse back from broken ankles? forgive an ignorant city slicker, but it just seemed like a viscious disregard for the horse's life...kinda like, "well she's useless now, so..."

i'm done "playin the ponies." but i'm still going to watch/ listen to every cubs game this year, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before that, and....

woodman · May 16th, 2008, 03:44 PM

pro sports turn me off increasingly with each passing year. there's something obscene about a guy earning $8 mil a season when most fans are scrapping to survive and sweating out the economic downturn (will their job still exist next month?) ... but i confess i still get fired up for games involving "my" teams!

as for the horses, wow, that's a two-edged sword if there ever was one.

superchicken_VI · May 16th, 2008, 03:56 PM

A horse doesn't know it's hurt, and will keep trying to run on a broken limb until it just falls down. It's very difficult to rehab one, and you risk atrophy in the other limbs if you isolate it. They can go insane standing around in a stable for 4 months trying to heal, all the while their muscles are dying and the animal has a poor chance of survival. The humane thing is to put them down, but the sport must be changed so that we're not faced with this after every race. Maybe we need to quit racing 3 year olds, and go to 5 year olds--they're sturdier.

ajgus · May 16th, 2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudbean

I love sports. Most sports. Don't have time to watch much, though. Guess I'm glad I missed the Derby this year. HUGE Yankees fan, since before birth.

Nice start for the Cubbies, BTW, aj.

mud

Thanks. There up 6-0 against the Pirates right now. Soriano's got 2 dingers!

wooderson · May 16th, 2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

there's something obscene about a guy earning $8 mil a season when most fans are scrapping to survive and sweating out the economic downturn (will their job still exist next month?)

Professional athletes are paid according to the revenues they create - multi-billion-dollar TV contracts, 2-3+ million attendance every year, etc. etc. etc.. The situation would be absurd if they were getting paid peanuts to create that kind of wealth.

That's why I won't watch or support D1 college football or basketball.

ramblinmike · May 16th, 2008, 06:01 PM

It seems that to the jockeys the horses are just a tool, like a race car. However, with horses, a blown tire means the horse is "totaled." I wonder if the jockey had any indication that the horse was hurt? Surely he must've felt the horse running a little funny. Did he just push it to the finish regardless? If so, he should face penalties of some sort. Not only is it very unfortunate for the horse, but it hurts the sport.

The horses are bred to run, and it is a great age-old sport. They're not built like farm horses. My sister's horse is a thoroughbred, and it suffers from very weak hooves, which I understand is a common ailment for them. Would be nice if the owners & jockeys showed a little more care for their animals.

ajgus · May 16th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooderson

Professional athletes are paid according to the revenues they create - multi-billion-dollar TV contracts, 2-3+ million attendance every year, etc. etc. etc.. The situation would be absurd if they were getting paid peanuts to create that kind of wealth.

That's why I won't watch or support D1 college football or basketball.

Interesting take. I'd not thought of that.

CatfishStudios · May 16th, 2008, 06:16 PM

Thoroughbred=inbred to me...always some bad genetic repercussions...I do like the sheepdog compititions though ;]

mudbean · May 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodman

pro sports turn me off increasingly with each passing year. there's something obscene about a guy earning $8 mil a season when most fans are scrapping to survive and sweating out the economic downturn (will their job still exist next month?) ... but i confess i still get fired up for games involving "my" teams!

as for the horses, wow, that's a two-edged sword if there ever was one.

Sorry, boss, I hear your point, but ya gotta look at 'em as entertainers ... we don't begrudge our favorite rock stars their millions, do we?

mud

petebradt · May 16th, 2008, 06:24 PM

Yep, after Eight Belles and Barbaro, no more horse racing for me.

ramblinmike · May 16th, 2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatfishStudios

Thoroughbred=inbred to me...always some bad genetic repercussions...I do like the sheepdog compititions though ;]

Yea, they swim in a very shallow gene pool. It's sad.

musicalmartin · May 16th, 2008, 07:02 PM

[quote= Kinda like the Lotus racecars of the 60's designed by Colin Chapman. With the Lotus you either won or died.
[/QUOTE]

Boris is right about the Team Lotus cars,i know a lot of the old team members as I live in Norfolk and wrote and photographed and interviewed them quite a few times about Team lotus .I also know the last Team Lotus Boss Peter Collins well so had good team access. .Bob Dance ,the chief mechanic in Chapman's time told me that Chapman would insist on roll bars being made of much thinner wall tubing than was legal just to save weight .of course it did little to save the driver in an accident .I was pretty disgusted even though I knew what Chapman was like .
Bob Dance is a great guy ,the best .My daughter then just 16 , did some work experience at TOMS Toyota F3 and already knew Bob a bit at Team Lotus .Two of her very close friends died in an auto accident while she was there and Bob helped her to pull through ,.She said he told her he had been to so many drivers funerals including Sennas and you just had to carry on the race.Bob used to chaperone her quietly and discreetly at race meetings .She has always refused to date race drivers ,although asked often ,two she knew have died,both Japanese ..Instead she is marrying a quiet,young , but authoritive F3 team manger at Carlin Motorsport ,a lot like Bob Dance .
I love motor racing but at one time I hated it when drivers were dying nearly every week in the 60's so I sympathise with all of you who hate horse racing now,I stopped following motorsport after Jim Clark died and restarted in the mid seventies but only got involved properly in the mid eighties .Both are blood sports but at least in motorsport the authorities have it under control at least a bit .

May 16th, 2008, 12:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Charlie Bernstein Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Augusta, Maine Posts: 2,516	My sports fan days are over (They shoot horses, don't they?) I'd never watched a sports game on TV all the way through, except for some bowling and roller derby when I was a kid. Too long, and not much happens - I've just never had the attention span to make it through a whole game. Then, a little more than two years ago, my friend Steve turned Ellen (my wife) me onto the perfect TV game: the Kentucky Derby! A whole game in well under five minutes! And stuff is happening the whole time. No waiting to see if a millionaire dork in tight pants is actually going to hit the ball for a change. Those horsies are on the go. And you get to drink a mint julep while you watch the fun. But Steve and his wife out of town this year, so I Ellen and I didn't make our (third) annual pilgrimage to their house to watch the race. But we picked up the paper next day, and there's a story about a dead horse at the Derby. Collapsed and had to be - uh - what did they call it? Put down? Destroyed? What a way to go. So today I saw Steve and thanked him for being out of town. Looks like we're going to have to think of another way to consume five minutes a year. Shouldn't be that hard. He's says he's been known to throw a May Day party or two... =O[

May 16th, 2008, 12:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
ajgus Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: chicago Posts: 2,264	Yeah, I kinda think in sports all the participants should be a) willing & b) know that there involved in a sport. But, to each his own. I've spent a little time at the track when I was a kid & had lots of fun, though. However, I can't agree with you on the whole sports thing. I LOVE baseball. I've been a HUGE Cubs fan my intire life (25-16 to start the season, thank you very much). I'm also a HUGE Bears fan. Now I'll be the first to admit that watching a baseball game can be like watching dry paint get drier. But its the "chess game" that makes it so briliant. I guess its like everything else...everybody's into what they're into... __________________ "I'm still married to my first wife...and that's my first guitar...she don't talk back to me, she talks for me..." -Stevie ray Vaughan

May 16th, 2008, 02:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
ajgus Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: chicago Posts: 2,264	Appearently the horse just kinda tripped. Something to do with the track surface. It was kind of random actually. I completely agree about the casual fan. Wrigley Field, one of the oldest & arguably the greatest baseball stadium, attracts a lot of "Wrigley Fans". People who just enjoy getting drunk & catching some rays. I enjoy those things too, but its because of these people that real fans, Cub fans can't get tickets to the games. __________________ "I'm still married to my first wife...and that's my first guitar...she don't talk back to me, she talks for me..." -Stevie ray Vaughan

May 16th, 2008, 02:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 8,430	My understanding is that thoroughbreds have been selectively bred to be as fast as they can possibly be, with no reserves of structural integrity should a foot be placed wrong. Kinda like the Lotus racecars of the 60's designed by Colin Chapman. With the Lotus you either won or died. The breeding, combined with large doses of drugs to control pain and swelling are what permit the horses to go faster and faster, but they also explain why there've been breakdowns in 2 of the last 3 Triple Crown races. Eight Belles did not trip, her front legs just blew up. Sure the horses having racing in their blood and are willing to give it all; the question is, should breeders be at liberty to create kamikaze horses in the first place? __________________ Bubban0v

May 16th, 2008, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Telepatio Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 410	boris is exactly right about what happened. it was a fluke, but one that's been engineered over time. i was there, it was pretty sad. i felt bad about cashing my ticket. i think there's going to be new regulations as far as drugging goes. there really has to be...it's gotten out of hand. horses should be able to run a mile and a quarter without falling apart. eight belles was a real beauty, and so is big brown. i think he's got a real legitimate shot for a triple crown. quite the athlete. __________________ Isn't life a series of images that change as they repeat themselves? - AW

May 16th, 2008, 01:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
superchicken_VI Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe, NC Age: 36 Posts: 1,515	Yeah, we're done with horse racing. We went to an inaugural steeplechase here years ago, it's now a big deal in the area. One of the horses broke a leg and was euthanized. We're horse people, and the disregard of the jockeys toward their mounts was the most vile display I'd seen in sports here in the states. We watched the Derby this year, and it ended with my wife crying. Never again. We're big sports people--we'll be at all 6 nights of racing here in Charlotte over the next 10 days, we're NBA Charlotte Bobcats season ticket holders, we go to the PGA and Champions tour events near us, we support local minor league baseball, hockey, and short-track racing. However, if a NASCAR driver gets hurt or killed, he knew that was part of the deal when he signed up. The horses don't. I understand that those particular horses wouldn't exist the way they do without the sport, but that doesn't mean that the sport couldn't be improved. Take away the whip? I don't know the answer, and I love to watch the horses run, but not at the current cost to the animals. I never want to see horse racing banned, but it could be made safer for the horses.

May 16th, 2008, 02:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
chet Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Jersey Shore Posts: 6,819	It looked like she stuck both legs in front to stop suddenly for some reason and the ankles couldn't take it. There's a small horse farm near where I live and I like to watch them. There's a cute foal there now with it's mother. I really need to take it's pic. __________________ In Brett & Eli We Trust!

May 16th, 2008, 02:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
mudbean Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SoCal Semi-Desert Semi-Paradise Age: 49 Posts: 1,704	I love sports. Most sports. Don't have time to watch much, though. Guess I'm glad I missed the Derby this year. HUGE Yankees fan, since before birth. Nice start for the Cubbies, BTW, aj. mud __________________ www.mudbean.com "Do ya want it to be interesting, or do ya want it to be true?" "So far, it's neither."

May 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
jazztele Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: chicago Age: 29 Posts: 2,113	i won a fair amount of money on eight belles...beginner's luck, i'm no gambler. i felt horribly guilty when she had to be "put down." it really had me thinking...is that really the only humane thing to do? you really can't nurse a horse back from broken ankles? forgive an ignorant city slicker, but it just seemed like a viscious disregard for the horse's life...kinda like, "well she's useless now, so..." i'm done "playin the ponies." but i'm still going to watch/ listen to every cubs game this year, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before that, and.... __________________ “For the guitar is the most unpredictable and least reliable musical instrument in existence...and also the sweetest, the warmest, the most delicate, whose melancholic voice awakes in our soul exquisite reveries.” Andres Segovia

May 16th, 2008, 03:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 5,898	pro sports turn me off increasingly with each passing year. there's something obscene about a guy earning $8 mil a season when most fans are scrapping to survive and sweating out the economic downturn (will their job still exist next month?) ... but i confess i still get fired up for games involving "my" teams! as for the horses, wow, that's a two-edged sword if there ever was one. __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

May 16th, 2008, 03:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
superchicken_VI Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe, NC Age: 36 Posts: 1,515	A horse doesn't know it's hurt, and will keep trying to run on a broken limb until it just falls down. It's very difficult to rehab one, and you risk atrophy in the other limbs if you isolate it. They can go insane standing around in a stable for 4 months trying to heal, all the while their muscles are dying and the animal has a poor chance of survival. The humane thing is to put them down, but the sport must be changed so that we're not faced with this after every race. Maybe we need to quit racing 3 year olds, and go to 5 year olds--they're sturdier.

May 16th, 2008, 06:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
ramblinmike Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Location: Long Island NY Age: 23 Posts: 924	It seems that to the jockeys the horses are just a tool, like a race car. However, with horses, a blown tire means the horse is "totaled." I wonder if the jockey had any indication that the horse was hurt? Surely he must've felt the horse running a little funny. Did he just push it to the finish regardless? If so, he should face penalties of some sort. Not only is it very unfortunate for the horse, but it hurts the sport. The horses are bred to run, and it is a great age-old sport. They're not built like farm horses. My sister's horse is a thoroughbred, and it suffers from very weak hooves, which I understand is a common ailment for them. Would be nice if the owners & jockeys showed a little more care for their animals.

May 16th, 2008, 06:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
CatfishStudios Banned Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon , United States Age: 33 Posts: 727	Thoroughbred=inbred to me...always some bad genetic repercussions...I do like the sheepdog compititions though ;]

May 16th, 2008, 06:24 PM	#21 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,424 12 Photos	Yep, after Eight Belles and Barbaro, no more horse racing for me.

May 16th, 2008, 07:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
musicalmartin Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Age: 60 Posts: 506	[quote= Kinda like the Lotus racecars of the 60's designed by Colin Chapman. With the Lotus you either won or died. [/QUOTE] Boris is right about the Team Lotus cars,i know a lot of the old team members as I live in Norfolk and wrote and photographed and interviewed them quite a few times about Team lotus .I also know the last Team Lotus Boss Peter Collins well so had good team access. .Bob Dance ,the chief mechanic in Chapman's time told me that Chapman would insist on roll bars being made of much thinner wall tubing than was legal just to save weight .of course it did little to save the driver in an accident .I was pretty disgusted even though I knew what Chapman was like . Bob Dance is a great guy ,the best .My daughter then just 16 , did some work experience at TOMS Toyota F3 and already knew Bob a bit at Team Lotus .Two of her very close friends died in an auto accident while she was there and Bob helped her to pull through ,.She said he told her he had been to so many drivers funerals including Sennas and you just had to carry on the race.Bob used to chaperone her quietly and discreetly at race meetings .She has always refused to date race drivers ,although asked often ,two she knew have died,both Japanese ..Instead she is marrying a quiet,young , but authoritive F3 team manger at Carlin Motorsport ,a lot like Bob Dance . I love motor racing but at one time I hated it when drivers were dying nearly every week in the 60's so I sympathise with all of you who hate horse racing now,I stopped following motorsport after Jim Clark died and restarted in the mid seventies but only got involved properly in the mid eighties .Both are blood sports but at least in motorsport the authorities have it under control at least a bit .