Couild Fender stay in business without Leo?

[Mark Davis]

What if there was sone kind of new law where Fender 2008 couldnt use any of Leo's designs from 1946-1965.

Would they be able to stay in business?

[Flannel Pat]

No.

[Jorge]

Ofcourse the could. Fender owns alot of daughter companies like Gretsch, Squier, Jackson etcetc. They would do fine.

[boris bubbanov]

Hmmm, no Strats or Teles, Fender label or Squier?

And the other companies could use the designs?

I dunno, this makes my brain hurt.

We did this in 2000, my mind has been boggled enough.

[jwells393]

A slight correction to an earlier post ........... Fender doesn't own Gretsch.

[e-merlin]

No. Almost everything they produce is based on the bolt-on neck. Didn't Leo invent that?

[Colt W. Knight]

Well they still have an ample pick, string, amp, and accessories line. On the guitar side, they could step up acoustic production. On the electric side, will other companies be able to make teles and strat style guitars? I think a company with Fenders resources could probably design some new style guitars and stay in the game, but I doubt they'd be an industry leader like they are today. I mean, strats and teles are corner stone/ legend of the electric guitar industry.

[rednwhiteblues]

if they were only being told to stop using the designs, then yeah, all they'd have to do is come up with a new body/headstock shape for the tele and strat guts to fit into. problem solved, fender still in business

[bowlfreshener]

It'd be rough, but I think they'd pull through. Ford is successful even though they don't use any of Henry Fords designs or concepts anymore...

[e-merlin]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I think a company with Fenders resources could probably design some new style guitars and stay in the game, but I doubt they'd be an industry leader like they are today.

I really question whether they are an industry leader. None of their newer designs have really taken off (Toronado, Venus). All of these side projects like the surfboard guitar stand and guitar shaped coffee tables really aren't that innovative. I hate to say they are resting on their laurels, but so is pretty much the whole guitar industry. And it's all our fault. We want (for the most part) Teles and Strats and a good tube amp to play 'em through.

[martino]

Originally Posted by jwells393

A slight correction to an earlier post ........... Fender doesn't own Gretsch.

good call Jack!
The Gretsch family owen Gretsch and has
Fender make them . . .

Finally, in 2003, Gretsch and Fender reached an agreement giving Fender most control over production and distribution of guitars (although the Gretsch family still owns Gretsch Guitars) — and a foothold in the hollowbody guitar market traditionally dominated by Gibson. The Gretsch family continues its involvement in the drum business, which is now part of the Kaman Music Corporation of musical instrument companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretsch

someone posted a link way back when that showed Gretsch guitars in the fender custom shop???

[Nick JD]

The amount a Telecaster needs to be changed to avoid registered trademark violation is so slight as to be insignificant. They could also just change the r and the n in Fender around and sell Ferdens.

But everyone would know they were still Fenders.

If, however, all the "cool" guitar players suddenly began playing Parker Flys and Ibanez Jems ... Fender would go belly-up in a week.

Fender owe more of their success to their famous players than their guitar designs. And we're all sheep.

[stephwills]

I don't see us as sheep. We're just following the sound that moves us. But I see your point.

[fivenote]

That would be some kind of law. But hey, this is America (just kidding).

[RodeoTex]

The question was kind of vague as to the rules of who would own Leo's work and whether it would exist at all today.
My take is that there was a real innovative zenith that was reached in the late 40s/early 50s. Both at Fender and Gibson things were invented or perfected and mass produced. The work was done by the time Leo sold Fender. It existed, CBS bought it. Many of the 'CBS' changes were already on Leo's drawing board before that time.
It is kind of impossible to draw any certain line about Leo Fender's work.

[surfoverb]

Maybe.

[Nick JD]

I've never heard Hank Williams on a BC Rich or an Ibanez Jem. 14 year old boys will follow their guitar hero off a cliff if he says jump. They will buy whatever guitar their hero plays. Fender and Gibson were there at the right place, right time. Everything else is a copy of Fender and Gibson guitars because to copy the music you must copy the instrument.

People in Dance Clubs don't buy Fenders, they buy turntables and computers.

[Flat357]

Originally Posted by martino

good call Jack!
The Gretsch family owen Gretsch and has
Fender make them . . .

Finally, in 2003, Gretsch and Fender reached an agreement giving Fender most control over production and distribution of guitars (although the Gretsch family still owns Gretsch Guitars) — and a foothold in the hollowbody guitar market traditionally dominated by Gibson. The Gretsch family continues its involvement in the drum business, which is now part of the Kaman Music Corporation of musical instrument companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretsch

someone posted a link way back when that showed Gretsch guitars in the fender custom shop???

I don't think they make all of them though .
Behind the scenes , there are an awful lot of companies making an awful lot of guitars for an awful lot of other companies , and the Gretsch brand is no different , especially ones made by our cousins in the East .

As for Fender ,

I think they'll soon have to move forward and find a new design anyway .
They're still a relatively young company considering their status , and though the Strat / Tele / Bass are doing good , they can't sit back on what has worked so far , if they are to remain competetive .
Pushing the Fender brand is always going to be top priority , but you can gaurantee that more than a few sleepless nights will have taken place trying to figure out just how they are going to move forward .

Many other companies are now offering very good quality products at very competetive prices , and Fender will need to address this for sure .

The guitar is becoming less of an importance in modern music compared to yester year , and the days of the guitar toting rock gods are fastly becoming a thing of the past on bedroom walls . There are probably more guitar players than ever before , but the market seems to be moving away from the guitar holding the limelight as it once did .

Fender are also not the easiest company to deal with from the retailers perspective , and certainly in England , the Fender brand is taking up less shelf space these days than it used to .

[Michaell]

I wonder what % of sales is Tele, or Strat or P-bass........and what is the % of guitar vs amp.........not counting the other brand names they now own...Just the fender gear....

[PJ]

There was a time in Fender's history when they had all but abandoned the vintage models, for the "modern" models.
Then, the market let them know that it was the original
designs that people liked - so they started making them
again. Now, I'd bet it's 80/20 vintage-to-modern. Good
thing they were able to do that, or their sales sure wouldn't
be waht they are today - probably getting close to $1bn
in sales. Same with the vintage amps.

[Gareth John]

Perhaps none of the new designs have taken off because in comparison to the strat and tele they probably don't sell well, perhaps other companies would be happy with the turn over on a toronado.

[riolux]

That would be a pretty sad line-up compared to what were used to:
Toronado, Jag-stang and Venus, TC-90, Cyclone I and II, Lead I, II and III and HM Strats and Tele's. I wouldn't mind a Starcaster RI though. Would they be able to make the Bullet, stratosonic and telesonic?

[scooteraz]

Originally Posted by martino

good call Jack!
The Gretsch family owen Gretsch and has
Fender make them . . .

Finally, in 2003, Gretsch and Fender reached an agreement giving Fender most control over production and distribution of guitars (although the Gretsch family still owns Gretsch Guitars) — and a foothold in the hollowbody guitar market traditionally dominated by Gibson. The Gretsch family continues its involvement in the drum business, which is now part of the Kaman Music Corporation of musical instrument companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretsch

someone posted a link way back when that showed Gretsch guitars in the fender custom shop???

But didn't Fender buy Kaman in January of this year? Wasn't there a thread as to how Tacoma was being moved to the Ovation plant. My head hurts

Fender would survive without Leo's designs, they would just buy out whoever owned the designs and produce them