Developing a following?

[EasilyAmused]

sigh... I've found myself in a new part of the country and a very different situation with gigging, so I'm looking for some advice.

I've played in cover bands in the past and been fairly successful. In fact, over the last few years I had basically made my living playing music - which was great. We never really had any problems getting gigs. Now I've moved to a new part of the country and I've got a great new band, but it seems almost impossible to get hired and even more difficult to get paid when places are interested.

The biggest thing we run into over and over again is that everyone wants you to have a following. Unless you can guarantee 100 people on a thursday, they don't seem interested in talking to you and weekend gigs seem reserved only for well established acts from the area. When I was younger I might have been able to get all of my friends out on a night like that, but being in a new city, I don't know enough people to invite out as friends, and since they want to book us for what are often 10pm-2am gigs on those nights, even the people I do know refuse to come out because they have to work in the morning (I can't even get my wife out to shows like that!)

I'm at a point in my life where I'm no longer looking to play every night of the week, but 3-4 nights a month seems like an incredible challenge around here.

So my question is, what advice do you have for developing a following - particularily as a cover band. How, in a very tight market where it is challenging to even get a gig, do you develop a following? How does a cover band get to a point where they can promise to fill a room with people on a regular basis?

Thanks!

[vjf1968]

Really, the only way to build a following is to keep playing and promote, promote, promote. You can't get people to like you, a following just happens and it takes time to cultivate.

It's the same thing as anywhere else. You got to have something that seperates you from everybody else and you have to play out a lot which is kind of next to impossible in a tight market. It is the same story in cities across the U.S.. A coverband has to have a really big song list because you don't want to be the band that if people seen you once they don't have to see you again. It's hard work.

You are going to have to do some footwork. Find out more about the bigger places to play. Get to know some of the people who book those clubs and see if you can get at least an opening slot on a show. Better yet, make yourself a fixture at some of the clubs and get to know some of those bands.
Of course most cover bands are the only ones on the bill but it is worth a shot. You might have to become a promoter in a sense and try to sell gigs paring up bands of he same genre.

What is the big thing with coverbands in England at the moment anyway? What I mean is what is most popular? Blues? Oldies? Country? Top 40?

[woodman]

you need to have a unique element that sets you apart from other similar bands, and pay the dues to get initial exposure -- freebies, benefits, opening gigs, jam nights, etc. once you get traction in a few clubs and people willing to get off their butts to come out and hear you, you might can think about making some money.

[vjf1968]

Woodman just said it it all in one sentence.

[tiktok]

While the scenario you describe is standard for bands playing original music, I'm surprised to hear about it happening to a cover band. Typically a cover band is hired to provide a known quantity (i.e. proven hits) to an already existing clientele.

[wetland10]

Originally Posted by tiktok

While the scenario you describe is standard for bands playing original music, I'm surprised to hear about it happening to a cover band. Typically a cover band is hired to provide a known quantity (i.e. proven hits) to an already existing clientele.

Not in NJ!!! Right now my band plays original music and is going through this exact same thing. However, when we were a cover band, every bar wanted to know how many people we could bring in. The thing is, people don't really seem to go out to live music places anymore. This makes it more difficult for the band because they not only need to perform, but they need to give the bar its customers for the night. Not easy. Especially when, like my band, we are not young, our "families and friends" aren't coming out late for a gig, and we are trying to build some sort of following.

It is a very tough business to work in. I'm glad I just do it for fun.

Wayne

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by wetland10

Not in NJ!!! Right now my band plays original music and is going through this exact same thing. However, when we were a cover band, every bar wanted to know how many people we could bring in. The thing is, people don't really seem to go out to live music places anymore. This makes it more difficult for the band because they not only need to perform, but they need to give the bar its customers for the night.

Wow--when cover bands are expected to bring the crowd, I'd declare that music scene to be officially flat-lined. Might as well play your own tunes at that point.

[wetland10]

Originally Posted by tiktok

Wow--when cover bands are expected to bring the crowd, I'd declare that music scene to be officially flat-lined. Might as well play your own tunes at that point.

In part, that is what happened. We evolved into playing original material anyway, but even the original music places want you to bring a certain amount of people. It is like that in any part of NJ. Most bars don't have a built-in crowd anymore. You need to supply the music and the patrons. Not cool.

Wayne

[vjf1968]

Actually, this is a pretty good thread. I wonder if there is anyone who can give thier 2 cents on the general state of live music at the club level where they live. Especially from our more "seasoned" members who can most likely give us a good "then" & "now" comparison. I think things carry more weight if they comes from the mouth of someone who was there.

[EasilyAmused]

Originally Posted by vjf1968

What is the big thing with coverbands in England at the moment anyway? What I mean is what is most popular? Blues? Oldies? Country? Top 40?

Lol - I'm actually in London, Ontario, Canada - not England.

Anyway - yeah, as tiktok put it - it does seem like one might as well do originals. I do have an original band as well, but my previous experience was that is was generally easier to get gigs/make money as a cover band so I've often tried to have both. Before moving here, I never had problems getting gigs as a cover band, but it seems that around here that is less of the case. I used to think that as an original band, it made sense to worry about a following, but cover bands were hired to provide atmosphere for a club. I also used to find that as a cover band you could play more BECAUSE of the fact that you were providing atmosphere, where as an original group is more concerned about following so has to be careful not to play too often as to avoid market saturation.

If anything, I think it is much MORE difficult to develop a following as a cover band - because you are playing music that a whole bunch of people are playing already - so it is much more difficult to stick out...

For those of you in cover bands, what do you do to "stick out" and promote your shows?

[emu!]

It sounds like you are describing Austin, Texas. The club owners are all spoiled because there are WAY more bands than places to play. Supply and demand are out-of-wack. Oh yeah, they MIGHT let you play...a 45 minuted "slot" between 2 other unknown bands...IF you play for free...AND bring your own PA. BUT, you better also bring an audience, or you won't be welcomed back.

[Dave_O]

Originally Posted by emu!

It sounds like you are describing Austin, Texas. The club owners are all spoiled because there are WAY more bands than places to play. Supply and demand are out-of-wack. Oh yeah, they MIGHT let you play...a 45 minuted "slot" between 2 other unknown bands...IF you play for free...AND bring your own PA. BUT, you better also bring an audience, or you won't be welcomed back.

remove "Austin, Texas".... insert "Melbourne, Australia".....
but I'm just a glutton for punishment, and I love playing live, so I go through all the crap. Even listening to some pimply 20yo bar manager telling me how the music biz works....

[bonefish]

the whole "can you bring a crowd in" mentality is a load of bollocks. if a club has a rep for booking good bands the people that want to hear live music will show. it's not my job to fill the seats, i'm there to entertain the people sitting in them.

i've had club owners book my band at the last minute, on a night when there's some huge event going on the next town over, and then whine that we didn't bring a crowd. yarbles, i say! great bolshy yarblockoes!

[vjf1968]

Oops. Just saw LONDON after location and just assumed ENGLAND.

[wetland10]

OK, so this is definitely a global issue. I don't feel so bad now. Pretty sad though. What has happened? It wasn't always like this.

Wayne

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by wetland10

OK, so this is definitely a global issue. I don't feel so bad now. Pretty sad though. What has happened? It wasn't always like this.

As has been said before, supply greatly outstrips demand. Too many bands!

Plus, live music at the local level was always part and parcel of the "drink and try and hook up" experience, and stricter DUI laws, higher drinking ages, higher liability for clubs and AIDS have taken their toll on that segment of the nightlife. Plus, the baby boomers all got old and stopped going out. There's another boomer "echo" coming up here in a few years that should provide a bit of a boost for nightlife in general.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by vjf1968

....Especially from our more "seasoned" members who can most likely give us a good "then" & "now" comparison. I think things carry more weight if they comes from the mouth of someone who was there.

Really ?, well i have been playing 30+years and i would say the 'scene' has never been worse for a million and one reasons (fuel, pay to play, Karaoke players, an over spoilt for choice audience etc. etc. etc.) but music itself seems as healthy as ever, more and different places and ways to get your music heard via the 'net and stuff, now you can 'network' globally as well as 'locally' ---- see, we're doing it right now !

I suppose as a 'seasoned' type i'm almost bound to say "it was better then", in a lot of ways i think it was harder then (crappy gear, venue's, PA's etc) but i do feel there was a healthier, less competitive/combative atmosphere then. In our neck of the woods at least bands and players would always help each other out with gear or players but i don't see that today, "Thats MY amp so dont even look at it OK ?"

As mentioned earlier, it's supply and demand and there are just too many bands but the real fact is ......... things change and just because they are different don't make 'em better or worse.

As long as you can play then do !

[RocksOff]

The kiss of death - A band that is known for covers switching over to original tunes. Just start a different band or rename it.

[Dave_O]

Originally Posted by Big John

... but music itself seems as healthy as ever, more and different places and ways to get your music heard via the 'net and stuff, now you can 'network' globally as well as 'locally' ---- see, we're doing it right now !

I suppose as a 'seasoned' type i'm almost bound to say "it was better then", in a lot of ways i think it was harder then (crappy gear, venue's, PA's etc) but i do feel there was a healthier, less competitive/combative atmosphere then.

100% agree on that side of it, Big John. The "biz" side of it is disappearing up it's own sphincter, but music is pretty damn healthy. IMHO, of course.
Thanks to the innermess, we can hear a whole bunch of regional stuff, good stuff, that we weren't able to get before. And we can natter away like this for hours. Back in the day, you needed one fast pigeon....


I've just gotten home from a gig (3am here) and we played to 5 people. Those 5 people had a damn good time, a lot of smiles and good comments. Maybe very small audiences are all we can expect from now on...
As far as the "following" part of the thread, man.... I don't think we're gonna see those days again. With all due respect, most of us here are geezers, playing geezer music on geezer guitars.
I love what I play, but maybe that's the truth of it.....

You know things have changed when two guys with four turntables can pull 4500 people at $60 a head, and call it a live performance....because there were no sequencers.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Dave_O

.....You know things have changed when two guys with four turntables can pull 4500 people at $60 a head, and call it a live performance....because there were no sequencers.

Thats beginning to sound like an epitaph !

Times is changing, and the past wont be back !, i suppose we all want to tour in our own jets, trash hotel rooms, lay waste to women and alcohol then do a sound check and play to 20.000 people in a stadium but by and large those days are gone, gone, gone except for the few obvious established acts.
Much as we might not want it the whole game has changed, there won't be another Beatles but what they couldn't do back then was buy a cheap computer and software, record themselves and get a bloke in Melbourne to hear it minutes after they finish it !!, if your connection is up to it you could hear it live for flips sake !!
I can eMail my info to a prospective agent or gig in milliseconds, the 'net is a powerful tool and rather than be one of these "it don't affect me" types it's good to harness it and use it.
Easily amused, get out there and network, sell yourself and don't follow the old rules, invent a few of your own.