Fly Fishings Parent Companys???

Easydog · April 28th, 2008, 11:33 AM

Just wondering who owns who in the fly fishing world? i.e Simms, Sage, Orvis, Loomis, Simms, St Croix. Im a big fan of buying locally, but cant find any info as to whether these companys are independantly & operated owned or not. Some are obviously independant, but I am more concerned with the less obvious brands. Simms, Sage, Loomis, independant. Orvis (part of Reddington?), St Croix (some rods made overseas). Everyones 2 cents seems to differ when I ask them..... so now I ask you all. Feel free to include other brands. Thanks

imwjl · April 28th, 2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easydog

Just wondering who owns who in the fly fishing world? i.e Simms, Sage, Orvis, Loomis, Simms, St Croix. Im a big fan of buying locally, but cant find any info as to whether these companys are independantly & operated owned or not. Some are obviously independant, but I am more concerned with the less obvious brands. Simms, Sage, Loomis, independant. Orvis (part of Reddington?), St Croix (some rods made overseas). Everyones 2 cents seems to differ when I ask them..... so now I ask you all. Feel free to include other brands. Thanks

St. Croix is a real company in N. WI. They've grown over time and a broader product line so it may not all be made in WI anymore, but they're still a WI company in the middle of fly rod musky fishing country.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=16&iwloc=addr

Guitarzan · April 28th, 2008, 12:16 PM

G. Loomis is owned by Shimano, but that does not affect me any.

Orvis is a privately owned company in Vermont, it is not owned by heirs of the founders, it has changed hands one or two times. It has independent dealers, but also has company owned stores. Orvis now makes and sales an appreciable amount of stuff offshore, including its reels, which are made in Asia. They shifted reel production from England a couple of years ago by packing up their plant and moving their equipment. I won't say its lesser equipment from a manufacturing standpoint, but it lost its panache to some extent. Orvis is the world's foremost purveyor of expensive dogbeds.

Reddington--it was purchased by Orvis, sold, and then apparently taken back by Orvis. I really lost track of the details, but there are bargains to be foud among its product lines.

St. Croix is independent in WI as discussed above.

Simms is independent in Bozeman, MT. I like their products very much, but everything they make is very expensive. But that is generally true of everything in flyfishing.

Sage is independent and is on Bainbridge Island, WA. It sells reels as well as rods, for which it is best known.

Temple Fork Outfitters-independent, sells products on prices more than anything, most of its product are made offshore. However, Lefty Kreih is associated as a consultant, and their Korean made rods have their fans.

Scientific Anglers-owned by 3M. Its lines are the best known products. It bought Charlton reels and ran the brand into the ground. Its entry level kits have their fans and believe that it offers the most you can get in flyfishing for $70-80. To my recollection, all its reels are cast rather than forged.

Cortland-apparently a big company in NY state, best known for flylines under its own name, and has ownership or distribution alignment (that i do not fully understand) with STH of Argentina and House of Hardy of England. Hardy has been known as a meticulous manufacturer of very handsome reels. It uses to make reels for Orvis, and then Orvis established its own production in England in the late 80's or early 90's. Even Hardy is making some reels in Asia now.

Lamson/Waterworks-an Idaho company with several brands under one roof. Some products are top notch, but there has been a lot of derision of Lamson's lower end imported reels because of various problems. Several shops have told me that they dropped them because of quality and custoemr service problems.

Ross Reels-independently owned and sits in Montrose, CO. I like their products, most reels are machined in the US. They have started importing some stuff, including rods and investment cast reels made abroad, under the Ross Worldwide name.

Bauer, Galvan, Tibor, and Abel are more independent companies with reels machined in the US

As it is in any other business, a lot of work is contracted out. There are not that many graphite rod makers in the world or forgers or casters of fly reels. I am led to believe that there are manufacturers that produce various lines for various companies, much as it is done in apparel and other industries.

Guitarzan · April 28th, 2008, 12:18 PM

BTW, noticing that you are in PDX, the guys at Kauffman's can tell you even more than I can.

scooteraz · April 28th, 2008, 12:50 PM

A couple of corrections on Guitarzan's really complete reply:

Sage, Reddington and Rio are all owned today by the Joshua Green Family Enterprises of WA. Was sold in '94. Didn't see when Reddington was sold to them; I too thought they were part of Orvis.

In addition to his list, there are custom rod makers. People line Metolius Custom and J.P.Ross. These folks, for the most part, buy other's blanks and build your rod to your specifications.

R.L. Winston, Scott and Thomas & Thomas all three rod makers still appear to be US companies that are "family" owned. By that I mean they are not part of some larger corporate structure, though they may not be owned by the families of the original owners.

As Guitarzan noted, Temple Fork is mostly offshore manufacturing to their own specs, and they sale on price; or at least they sell on price performance ratio. I have two, and they are great for what they are. They are not a high end Sage, Orvis, G Loomis, Winston or Scott. Nor, by the way, are they $600-$1200 for the rod either. I can say, however, they beat the everliving out of the absolutely top of the line 1981 Sage that I have owned (and successfully fished happily) for all those years. I don't get out enough anymore to justify a high dollar fly rod, and these fit the bill. So...take that for what it is worth; list me as a fan.

Some of the high end companies build all their stuff here. Some are high end here, and lower end blanks from Korea or China. Some are assembly here, materials from where ever and some are completely built off shore. The only to have an idea is to call the individual company and ask about the specific product you are interested in.

Flyfishing is a botique pastime. Just like Fender is not jonsing to buy out Victoria, Allen or (name your botique amp maker here), AMF, Diawa and Shimmano etc. are not in a big hurry to buy the fly fishing manufacturers. Orvis is about as big as it gets.

Birdsnest · April 28th, 2008, 01:00 PM

Big +1 for Scott Fly rods as a US company.

I will also say, being involved in the fishing business as a pro-staffer I know that many companies (even the family owned outfits) buy some of their lower end blanks from overseas. Most of the high dollar rods are fabricated and made in the US... but some cheaper sticks that say "made in USA" are fabricated stateside with Chinese or Korean blanks.

fltpkr · April 28th, 2008, 01:17 PM

Check out Glenn Wicks down in Creswell. He's a local rod builder who sells very nice rods out of his own shop at reasonable prices. He has a few guys winding rods for him full time, and more blanks than you can believe.
I have a 9' 5wt that's still my number one I bought from him almost ten years ago.

Guitarzan · April 28th, 2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooteraz

A couple of corrections on Guitarzan's really complete reply:

Sage, Reddington and Rio are all owned today by the Joshua Green Family Enterprises of WA. Was sold in '94. Didn't see when Reddington was sold to them; I too thought they were part of Orvis.

R.L. Winston, Scott and Thomas & Thomas all three rod makers still appear to be US companies that are "family" owned. By that I mean they are not part of some larger corporate structure, though they may not be owned by the families of the original owners.

I was not aware that Jim Vincent had sold Rio into common ownership with Sage, and definitely lost track of Reddington after the first sale to Orvis.

Winston is not family owned, an outsider, I believe an attorney, bought it. In fact, I believe that it has sold more than once.

I understand that Thomas & Thomas is owned by someone out of Europe, I can't remember exactly, but believe it to be an Irish or Dutch company.

I don't know much about Scott. I've fished with those owned by others, incluig guides on their pro-staff, and the company is certainly capable of making a good rod. Scott took a lump in 2001 or 2002 because it decided to sell through REI. A number of dealers rebelled because REI is a coop with a rebate, and in their eyes, it amounted to permission to discount. Kaufmann's dropped Scott's rods at that time, I don't know if it resumed distribution or whether REI still sells its rods.

You can typically find at least one rod that pleases you in any maker's line. The distinction is that you can go into one maker's line and find a better value-casting characteristics that work for you and quality of hardware-at a lower pricepoint than another. TFO typically offers more rod at a given, lower pricepoint than Sage and many others do, but TFO is offshore. I know a guy that bought a Fenwick for $100 on closeout, it casts great for him, not bad at all to me, and he has gotten well over a decade of use out of it.

I've bought used and on closeout when possible. I'm going to become more of a minimalist when I see rods at $750. IMO, all flyfishing prices are out of hand. It's getting that way with bass fishing tackle too, with the median baitcaster pricepoint between $150-200. It's the same for name brand rods as well.

Birdsnest · April 28th, 2008, 01:55 PM

Just one more thought... I've had some experience with an Italian fly rod company called Gatti. I don't know if they are still around, but they also make some very nice fly rods. Really enjoyed those... FWIW

Easydog · April 29th, 2008, 10:22 PM

Thanks for the info. I assumed Loomis was indepent as well as Sage but had no way to tell (loomis being local to me as well as sage...kind of WA).
How do you all find out this type of info? Had no luck with online research and word of mouth is always questionable. So thanks, Glad to hear SIMMS is indy. Simms is the best! & one of my favorites.
-Easy

WisconsinStrings · April 29th, 2008, 10:57 PM

I always buy St.Croix rods. Good Wisconsin company - along with Justin Charles fly rods.

http://www.justincharles.com/split-bamboo-fly-rod.aspx

They have the coolest parent company of all.

Made by the same guy that makes McPherson Guitars and Mathews Bows. Matt McPherson is some kind of freak genius. I guess he does all the product development himself. I think his bows are more innovative then his guitars.

Guran · April 30th, 2008, 12:30 AM

Not really locally for you, but Danielsson Flyreels (formerly marketed under the Loop brand) are beeing made about eight miles downstream from me. Owned by the founders. That would be overseas for you though.

Easydog · April 30th, 2008, 12:36 AM

All 3 of my current rods are St croix & theyve never done me wrong & cast well.
Imperial 5wt 9' 4pc
Imperial 7wt 9' 2pc
Legend ultra 8wt 9' 3pc

I find myself wanting a 5wt 10' nymphing rod for the Deschutes but the $$$ seems to go to guitars lately. Loomis has an "East fork" line in a 10' 5 wt 4pc with wicked fast action that casts real nice, so that may be in my future.

Easydog · April 30th, 2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Not really locally for you, but Danielsson Flyreels (formerly marketed under the Loop brand) are beeing made about eight miles downstream from me. Owned by the founders. That would be overseas for you though.

Those reels are great! Awesome large arbor. Real slick, had my eye on those for a while.
Ill buy overseas to get quality machined equipment, I just like to support my local economy if I can.

scooteraz · April 30th, 2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

I was not aware that Jim Vincent had sold Rio into common ownership with Sage, and definitely lost track of Reddington after the first sale to Orvis.

Winston is not family owned, an outsider, I believe an attorney, bought it. In fact, I believe that it has sold more than once.

I understand that Thomas & Thomas is owned by someone out of Europe, I can't remember exactly, but believe it to be an Irish or Dutch company.

I don't know much about Scott. I've fished with those owned by others, incluig guides on their pro-staff, and the company is certainly capable of making a good rod. Scott took a lump in 2001 or 2002 because it decided to sell through REI. A number of dealers rebelled because REI is a coop with a rebate, and in their eyes, it amounted to permission to discount. Kaufmann's dropped Scott's rods at that time, I don't know if it resumed distribution or whether REI still sells its rods.

You can typically find at least one rod that pleases you in any maker's line. The distinction is that you can go into one maker's line and find a better value-casting characteristics that work for you and quality of hardware-at a lower pricepoint than another. TFO typically offers more rod at a given, lower pricepoint than Sage and many others do, but TFO is offshore. I know a guy that bought a Fenwick for $100 on closeout, it casts great for him, not bad at all to me, and he has gotten well over a decade of use out of it.

I've bought used and on closeout when possible. I'm going to become more of a minimalist when I see rods at $750. IMO, all flyfishing prices are out of hand. It's getting that way with bass fishing tackle too, with the median baitcaster pricepoint between $150-200. It's the same for name brand rods as well.

I'm sorry, I should have been more explicit. What I meant by "family owned" was that they were not part of something like AMF or Shimano or even Cabela's, but rather they were closely held by one or few people. So, by that definition, I considered "an attorney" as "family owned. As I said, may not be the original family.

Thomas and Thomas have this to say about who owns their company, "...In March 1991 the company was sold to Lon Deckard of Cincinnati, OH. Len Codella left the company to engage in a new business of his own, and Dorsey remained as rod builder/designer...." Dorsey is Thomas Doresy, one of the original two Thomases. But, maybe it has been sold again.

I agree that fishing tackle has gotten out of hand, price wise. Fly fishing started getting there in the mid '80's. But the high price on bass rods and reels has got to be due to the advertising budgets in sponsoring tournament fishing. But, that is another thread.

Yeah, I would love to have a Sage or Winston in 7 or 8 weight, one of the new long fast rods meant for fishing on small alpine lakes from floats. But...when the rod alone is 3 times the cost of the inflateable boat I was looking at...I had to revise my expectations. I think another TFO may be in my future.

KC · April 30th, 2008, 09:59 AM

keep your eyes peeled, and you can find high-end rods for a lot cheaper than list. I paid, I think, $200 for my T&T Horizon and $225 for my Sage XP, one was a demo and one was out of a rental fleet. both killer rods.

hoping to sneak in a little fishing this week before runoff starts around here. could be a doozy this year.

Easydog · April 30th, 2008, 10:05 AM

Im actually headed to Missoula the first week of July. Cant wait!

bassbuster33 · April 30th, 2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooteraz

I agree that fishing tackle has gotten out of hand, price wise. Fly fishing started getting there in the mid '80's. But the high price on bass rods and reels has got to be due to the advertising budgets in sponsoring tournament fishing. But, that is another thread.

I haven't noticed any big price increase in the rods or reels that I buy.

I fish with Gloomis rods and Shimano reels. In fact, in terms of reels, I get a lot more reel at $120 now then I did at the same price 8 - 10 years ago. Gloomis has added a lot of premium offerings that are bass specific. But the prices on their Mag Bass Rod series and their Spin Jig Rod Series have held the line.

I think as bass fishing has gained in popularity there have been many higher priced alternatives added to the mix. But there are plenty of really reasonably priced options available that are an improvement to the equipment that was offered at the same price in year's past.

I have noticed an exponential price increase in bass boats and lures though.

Back to topic

I used to fly fish and I haven't for years.

Get the Loomis. You'll be very happy. Their warranty and service are unbeatable.

mrbdxmpl · April 30th, 2008, 11:25 AM

Another big fan of Scott, which I am pretty certain are still independent. I picked up a discontinued STS for about $250 a few years back, and if I knew it was the only rod I'd ever own, I'd have nothing to be unhappy about. They are often a much better value than Sage because they are less of a name, especially here on the east coast--give 'em a look.

Tele-Caster · April 30th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Teton Reels are machined and assembled in California. I've used them since they first came out and have been VERY satisfied. I use their lower priced (but still Made in California) Tiogas for surf zone and shallow embayment fly fishing along the California coast and I've been very pleased with them, too.

I was a licensed guide in California from 1995 to 2005, guiding mostly salt water, and those relatively inexpensive Tiogas held up very well. Virtually all of them still present as new, in spite of season after season of hard use in a corrosive environment.

Teton is pretty much a family affair. Wes (the fellow who owns the company) used to have his kids work his booth for him at trade shows for a while.

And speaking of small companies, I'll plug my favorite fly fishing magazine -California Fly Fisher.

It is published out of Truckee, CA and is kind of a one-man show, as the editor/publisher also does the layout and works as the subscription department. Call the magazine and he'll be the one answering the phone.

He doesn't do it ALL by himself, thankfully. I'm on the masthead as a contributing editor, but I am a freelancer rather than employee, just as everyone else who writes for the magazine is.

I'm also going to plug Echo rods. These are Asian-made, but designed by Tim Rajeff, a champion tournament caster and all around swell guy. While Echos are inexpensive, I'm into them more because of the way they cast. I used his first generation 5 weight in ACA tournament casting, and a LOT of guys in the casting club I was in also used 'em in tournament casting. I like the Echo composite large arbor reel, too. Tim is the U.S. distributor of Airflo lines -another product line that I am a huge fan of.

There are some rods in Tim's Echo line that I would own if they cost three times what they do. The "original series" 9 foot 5 weight is my favorite all-time trout rod. I like his Tournament Model 5 weight A LOT. I also am a huge, huge fan of the 12 1/2 foot 7 weight double handed "Scandi" rod in the Echo line.

But my favorite is the Echo2 Salt Water 6 weight, because I played a small role in the development of it, and Tim designed exactly what I wanted for the fishing I do out in California.

Colt W. Knight · April 30th, 2008, 02:52 PM

What about Fenwick? Are they even still in the fly rod business?

superchicken_VI · April 30th, 2008, 03:02 PM

Yeah, don't forget that Tim Rajeff's brother Steve is also something of a name in the rod business, as a lead designer for Loomis.

Redington was acquired by Sage probably 18 months ago. I doubt it did anything but hurt its distribution, but I may be wrong.

Orvis, under the Perkins family, has done an amazing job of becoming a lifestyle and travel company rather than a flyfishing company. Their product line is vast and high-end, with everything from a size 16 Adams to your very own Montana ranch.

As noted, most of the flyfishing names are not part of multi-industry conglomerates as happens in other sports. Only G.Loomis (Shimano) and ScientificAnglers (MMM) come to mind. Unlike golf companies, where the same people that bring you Titleist ProV1s also sell you your Jim Beam and Moen faucets.

Tele-Caster · May 1st, 2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

What about Fenwick? Are they even still in the fly rod business?

My first fly rod was an 8 1/2 6 wt Fenwick "World Class" model and it is a very nice, smooth-casting rod. They were still made here in the U.S.A. back then and even individually serial numbered. I've got a soft spot in my heart for the brand, and still fish my old rod when I am feeling nostalgic.

Cabelas still sells the U.S.A. made Fenwick HMG and they've still got that old HMG vibe, even though the tapers are tweaked a bit from the originals for a bit faster action. I personally think they are very good rods, having cast more than a few of the older classics and the current incarnation. They have a unique grip shape that I find quite comfortable. I like the later ones over the orginals because the slightly faster action complements my, uh, "aggressive" casting stroke and works well with integrated shooting head lines that I frequently fish with.

If I needed a new 8 or 9 weight, I'd give one of these HMG's serious consideration, but I don't really need one.

April 28th, 2008, 11:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
Easydog Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 257	Fly Fishings Parent Companys??? Just wondering who owns who in the fly fishing world? i.e Simms, Sage, Orvis, Loomis, Simms, St Croix. Im a big fan of buying locally, but cant find any info as to whether these companys are independantly & operated owned or not. Some are obviously independant, but I am more concerned with the less obvious brands. Simms, Sage, Loomis, independant. Orvis (part of Reddington?), St Croix (some rods made overseas). Everyones 2 cents seems to differ when I ask them..... so now I ask you all. Feel free to include other brands. Thanks __________________ Guitars are shaped like ladies.

April 28th, 2008, 12:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
Guitarzan Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hotlanta, GA Posts: 849	G. Loomis is owned by Shimano, but that does not affect me any. Orvis is a privately owned company in Vermont, it is not owned by heirs of the founders, it has changed hands one or two times. It has independent dealers, but also has company owned stores. Orvis now makes and sales an appreciable amount of stuff offshore, including its reels, which are made in Asia. They shifted reel production from England a couple of years ago by packing up their plant and moving their equipment. I won't say its lesser equipment from a manufacturing standpoint, but it lost its panache to some extent. Orvis is the world's foremost purveyor of expensive dogbeds. Reddington--it was purchased by Orvis, sold, and then apparently taken back by Orvis. I really lost track of the details, but there are bargains to be foud among its product lines. St. Croix is independent in WI as discussed above. Simms is independent in Bozeman, MT. I like their products very much, but everything they make is very expensive. But that is generally true of everything in flyfishing. Sage is independent and is on Bainbridge Island, WA. It sells reels as well as rods, for which it is best known. Temple Fork Outfitters-independent, sells products on prices more than anything, most of its product are made offshore. However, Lefty Kreih is associated as a consultant, and their Korean made rods have their fans. Scientific Anglers-owned by 3M. Its lines are the best known products. It bought Charlton reels and ran the brand into the ground. Its entry level kits have their fans and believe that it offers the most you can get in flyfishing for $70-80. To my recollection, all its reels are cast rather than forged. Cortland-apparently a big company in NY state, best known for flylines under its own name, and has ownership or distribution alignment (that i do not fully understand) with STH of Argentina and House of Hardy of England. Hardy has been known as a meticulous manufacturer of very handsome reels. It uses to make reels for Orvis, and then Orvis established its own production in England in the late 80's or early 90's. Even Hardy is making some reels in Asia now. Lamson/Waterworks-an Idaho company with several brands under one roof. Some products are top notch, but there has been a lot of derision of Lamson's lower end imported reels because of various problems. Several shops have told me that they dropped them because of quality and custoemr service problems. Ross Reels-independently owned and sits in Montrose, CO. I like their products, most reels are machined in the US. They have started importing some stuff, including rods and investment cast reels made abroad, under the Ross Worldwide name. Bauer, Galvan, Tibor, and Abel are more independent companies with reels machined in the US As it is in any other business, a lot of work is contracted out. There are not that many graphite rod makers in the world or forgers or casters of fly reels. I am led to believe that there are manufacturers that produce various lines for various companies, much as it is done in apparel and other industries. __________________ Set an eye on 'em Amos. Make it count, son.

April 28th, 2008, 12:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Guitarzan Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hotlanta, GA Posts: 849	BTW, noticing that you are in PDX, the guys at Kauffman's can tell you even more than I can. __________________ Set an eye on 'em Amos. Make it count, son.

April 28th, 2008, 01:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Birdsnest Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 232	Big +1 for Scott Fly rods as a US company. I will also say, being involved in the fishing business as a pro-staffer I know that many companies (even the family owned outfits) buy some of their lower end blanks from overseas. Most of the high dollar rods are fabricated and made in the US... but some cheaper sticks that say "made in USA" are fabricated stateside with Chinese or Korean blanks. __________________ Let Fury Have The Hour

April 28th, 2008, 01:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
fltpkr Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregoon Posts: 770	Check out Glenn Wicks down in Creswell. He's a local rod builder who sells very nice rods out of his own shop at reasonable prices. He has a few guys winding rods for him full time, and more blanks than you can believe. I have a 9' 5wt that's still my number one I bought from him almost ten years ago. __________________ The preacher says all my sins is warshed away, including that Piggly Wiggly I knocked over in Yazoo.

April 28th, 2008, 12:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
scooteraz Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 751	A couple of corrections on Guitarzan's really complete reply: Sage, Reddington and Rio are all owned today by the Joshua Green Family Enterprises of WA. Was sold in '94. Didn't see when Reddington was sold to them; I too thought they were part of Orvis. In addition to his list, there are custom rod makers. People line Metolius Custom and J.P.Ross. These folks, for the most part, buy other's blanks and build your rod to your specifications. R.L. Winston, Scott and Thomas & Thomas all three rod makers still appear to be US companies that are "family" owned. By that I mean they are not part of some larger corporate structure, though they may not be owned by the families of the original owners. As Guitarzan noted, Temple Fork is mostly offshore manufacturing to their own specs, and they sale on price; or at least they sell on price performance ratio. I have two, and they are great for what they are. They are not a high end Sage, Orvis, G Loomis, Winston or Scott. Nor, by the way, are they $600-$1200 for the rod either. I can say, however, they beat the everliving out of the absolutely top of the line 1981 Sage that I have owned (and successfully fished happily) for all those years. I don't get out enough anymore to justify a high dollar fly rod, and these fit the bill. So...take that for what it is worth; list me as a fan. Some of the high end companies build all their stuff here. Some are high end here, and lower end blanks from Korea or China. Some are assembly here, materials from where ever and some are completely built off shore. The only to have an idea is to call the individual company and ask about the specific product you are interested in. Flyfishing is a botique pastime. Just like Fender is not jonsing to buy out Victoria, Allen or (name your botique amp maker here), AMF, Diawa and Shimmano etc. are not in a big hurry to buy the fly fishing manufacturers. Orvis is about as big as it gets.

April 28th, 2008, 01:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
Birdsnest Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 232	Just one more thought... I've had some experience with an Italian fly rod company called Gatti. I don't know if they are still around, but they also make some very nice fly rods. Really enjoyed those... FWIW __________________ Let Fury Have The Hour

April 29th, 2008, 10:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
Easydog Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 257	Thanks for the info. I assumed Loomis was indepent as well as Sage but had no way to tell (loomis being local to me as well as sage...kind of WA). How do you all find out this type of info? Had no luck with online research and word of mouth is always questionable. So thanks, Glad to hear SIMMS is indy. Simms is the best! & one of my favorites. -Easy Last edited by Easydog : April 30th, 2008 at 12:28 AM.

April 29th, 2008, 10:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
WisconsinStrings Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arcadia, Wisconsin Age: 37 Posts: 640	I always buy St.Croix rods. Good Wisconsin company - along with Justin Charles fly rods. http://www.justincharles.com/split-bamboo-fly-rod.aspx They have the coolest parent company of all. Made by the same guy that makes McPherson Guitars and Mathews Bows. Matt McPherson is some kind of freak genius. I guess he does all the product development himself. I think his bows are more innovative then his guitars.

April 30th, 2008, 12:30 AM	#12 (permalink)
Guran Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sweden Age: 41 Posts: 216	Not really locally for you, but Danielsson Flyreels (formerly marketed under the Loop brand) are beeing made about eight miles downstream from me. Owned by the founders. That would be overseas for you though.

April 30th, 2008, 12:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
Easydog Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 257	All 3 of my current rods are St croix & theyve never done me wrong & cast well. Imperial 5wt 9' 4pc Imperial 7wt 9' 2pc Legend ultra 8wt 9' 3pc I find myself wanting a 5wt 10' nymphing rod for the Deschutes but the $$$ seems to go to guitars lately. Loomis has an "East fork" line in a 10' 5 wt 4pc with wicked fast action that casts real nice, so that may be in my future.

April 30th, 2008, 09:59 AM	#16 (permalink)
KC Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Missoula, Montana Posts: 1,224 15 Photos	keep your eyes peeled, and you can find high-end rods for a lot cheaper than list. I paid, I think, $200 for my T&T Horizon and $225 for my Sage XP, one was a demo and one was out of a rental fleet. both killer rods. hoping to sneak in a little fishing this week before runoff starts around here. could be a doozy this year.

April 30th, 2008, 10:05 AM	#17 (permalink)
Easydog Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 257	Im actually headed to Missoula the first week of July. Cant wait!

April 30th, 2008, 11:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
mrbdxmpl Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington, DC Age: 42 Posts: 197	Another big fan of Scott, which I am pretty certain are still independent. I picked up a discontinued STS for about $250 a few years back, and if I knew it was the only rod I'd ever own, I'd have nothing to be unhappy about. They are often a much better value than Sage because they are less of a name, especially here on the east coast--give 'em a look.

April 30th, 2008, 01:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
Tele-Caster TDPRI Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tahlequah, OK Age: 43 Posts: 83	Teton Reels, Rajeff Sports, CA Fly Fisher Teton Reels are machined and assembled in California. I've used them since they first came out and have been VERY satisfied. I use their lower priced (but still Made in California) Tiogas for surf zone and shallow embayment fly fishing along the California coast and I've been very pleased with them, too. I was a licensed guide in California from 1995 to 2005, guiding mostly salt water, and those relatively inexpensive Tiogas held up very well. Virtually all of them still present as new, in spite of season after season of hard use in a corrosive environment. Teton is pretty much a family affair. Wes (the fellow who owns the company) used to have his kids work his booth for him at trade shows for a while. And speaking of small companies, I'll plug my favorite fly fishing magazine -California Fly Fisher. It is published out of Truckee, CA and is kind of a one-man show, as the editor/publisher also does the layout and works as the subscription department. Call the magazine and he'll be the one answering the phone. He doesn't do it ALL by himself, thankfully. I'm on the masthead as a contributing editor, but I am a freelancer rather than employee, just as everyone else who writes for the magazine is. I'm also going to plug Echo rods. These are Asian-made, but designed by Tim Rajeff, a champion tournament caster and all around swell guy. While Echos are inexpensive, I'm into them more because of the way they cast. I used his first generation 5 weight in ACA tournament casting, and a LOT of guys in the casting club I was in also used 'em in tournament casting. I like the Echo composite large arbor reel, too. Tim is the U.S. distributor of Airflo lines -another product line that I am a huge fan of. There are some rods in Tim's Echo line that I would own if they cost three times what they do. The "original series" 9 foot 5 weight is my favorite all-time trout rod. I like his Tournament Model 5 weight A LOT. I also am a huge, huge fan of the 12 1/2 foot 7 weight double handed "Scandi" rod in the Echo line. But my favorite is the Echo2 Salt Water 6 weight, because I played a small role in the development of it, and Tim designed exactly what I wanted for the fishing I do out in California.

April 30th, 2008, 02:52 PM	#21 (permalink)
Colt W. Knight Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wyoming Age: 24 Posts: 1,610	What about Fenwick? Are they even still in the fly rod business?

April 30th, 2008, 03:02 PM	#22 (permalink)
superchicken_VI Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe, NC Age: 35 Posts: 1,219	Yeah, don't forget that Tim Rajeff's brother Steve is also something of a name in the rod business, as a lead designer for Loomis. Redington was acquired by Sage probably 18 months ago. I doubt it did anything but hurt its distribution, but I may be wrong. Orvis, under the Perkins family, has done an amazing job of becoming a lifestyle and travel company rather than a flyfishing company. Their product line is vast and high-end, with everything from a size 16 Adams to your very own Montana ranch. As noted, most of the flyfishing names are not part of multi-industry conglomerates as happens in other sports. Only G.Loomis (Shimano) and ScientificAnglers (MMM) come to mind. Unlike golf companies, where the same people that bring you Titleist ProV1s also sell you your Jim Beam and Moen faucets.