Are CD's on the way out?

[Caffeine Patrol]

I wouldn't say that MP3ers/downloaders are "ignorant" or aren't "true music lovers"; some of my best friends are iTunes users. Even my friends who do make a lot of use of MP3s and the like, though, admit the sound quality is pretty bad. To overuse the burger analogy, being a music lover and using MP3s as your primary or sole format of choice is like claiming to be a gourmand who only eats at McDonalds. To my thinking that says you prefer convenience over sound quality. Is that a value judgment? Not necessarily, but I'd personally take a slab of ribs from Arthur Bryant's over a McRibwich anyday. And to keep the sweeping cultural generalities rolling, (soapbox, please) I might go so far as to say that it is another indication of our willingness to settle for mediocrity when quality, with a little work, is within reach. Discuss!

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by cntrary2ordnary

You can get high quality downloads here.

http://computeraudiophile.musicgiant...rtnerid=001124

That would be great... if it worked with Mac and it worked with iTunes and it worked with iPods. But unfortunately, it doesn't work with any of those things.

[rand z]

Originally Posted by cntrary2ordnary

Everything sounds screechy and thin through cheap little speakers.

absolutely!

but, half the point of my above post is that it seems that's how everyone is listening to this stuff, these daze, and i dont care to go that route when i listen to music. and, it's too easy to lose one of those losable, delicate, expensive little suckers...

verstehen?!?

imho.

rand z tropicalsoul.net

[Skully]

Like they say "for every action there is an equal or greater reaction".

The more that degraded downloadable mp3 files sell, the more high quality vinyl sells go up.

Equal or greater reaction? C'mon. Get real. The vinyl "revival" is a niche market fad. Specialty shops may be doing brisk business, your friends may be buying it, but it's not coming back as a force in the marketplace.

[Wildhawk]

Originally Posted by Derek S

I think sales of CD's will continue to decline. they've only really survived this
long by reselling popular albums.

Yep

Originally Posted by jonitkin

One essential failing of MP3's is that they tend to live on hard drives (like mine) and hard drives don't last forever....

Hard drives are dirt cheap. Two drives are a must if one cares about their collection.

Originally Posted by Big John

"it's the old saying "listen to the music not the gear !! ".

Exactly.. Crap music from a big $ system does nothing for me.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by Scotland

Maplin in Aberdeen sold more record decks in December than CD players. Most were for presents according to the instore survey. That speaks volumes to me.

How many of them were good ones, and how many were those crappy little all-in-one USB ones made for instantly digitizing your LPs?

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by geddins

CDs are probably done....

On another note, I don't understand why some folks would make statements that infer that those who choose to use ITunes/MP3's, etc are somehow ignorant or not true music lovers.

Yes, the quality isn't nearly as good...but when I'm riding my New Holland G4010 mower, the difference can't be heard....by me or ANYONE. When I'm on a 13 hour trip with the family and we all want to be able to listen to our OWN music...the difference isn't enough to matter....as Big John said...I'm listening to the MUSIC, not the gear.

I have no problem with those who choose to not adopt the Ipod/whatever as a means to listen to music. But please....don't get so worked up over it

Music is fun!

Yeah, but there are many millions of kids for whom their iPod is their primary, only source of music whether they're on the go or in their rooms. These are not people who are making an informed decision to trade quality for convenience, it's literally all they know about music reproduction.

[Kid Klash]

Well, yes and no.

At today's retail prices, the answer is yes. Believe it or not, the largest retailer in the U.S. (and maybe the world now) is WalMart. They're having some very heated discussions with the bog labels, and they're demanding that CD's in their stores retail for $10 each or less. WalMart has recently downsized their CD shelf space too, further putting the squeeze on the labels. They told the labels that if they don't adjust the wholesale prices so that the retail price can drop to $10 or less across the board, they'll discontinue selling CDs alltogether. With the big labels spiraling down in flames these days, this is probably their last wakeup call. CD sales were down 15% last year, and they're down another 12% in just the first quarter of this year, so they better act fast. An interesting statistic is that most young people quit buying CDs a few years ago; they're only downloading music now, although the downloads aren't making up the difference either. Personally, I think the overall quality of commercially released music is at a all time low too...

There are so many other things to spend money on these days other than music.

[Nick JD]

I laughed the other day - slipped a mixed CD (burnt from MP3s, and converted back to CDA!) into the car stereo and then looked at the little LCD screen.

No album title? Whaaaat? No track titles? Huuuuh?

What is this primitive system where I have to open a booklet to find out something as simple as a track name?

I honestly can't believe CDs have had such a long life [irony intended]. They were a design fault (aka individual planned obsolescence) because they scratch and become useless. The whole CD, cover and all, should have been inserted into the player and a slide could have revealed the playing surface like a floppy or a minidisc.

I was in a cafe a few days ago and the CD was skipping. It brought back old memories of the days before MP3s. CDs may have great sound quality, but when they get scratched ... get scratched ... get scratched ... get scratched ...get scratched ... get scratched ... get scratched...

I won't miss CDs at all. Good riddance.

[tiktok]

Originally Posted by Nick JD

I honestly can't believe CDs have had such a long life [irony intended]. They were a design fault (aka individual planned obsolescence) because they scratch and become useless.

Unlike the amazingly robust LP...

[chet]

Originally Posted by Bernie

One good thing that CDs did bring was, with the longer and more compact format, old catalogs were revived, vaults of tapes were researched and new discoveries were made - alternate takes and outtakes - were included in the reissues. This kind of material was a gold mine for fans and completists. These sets often came with great new liner notes and booklets with all kinds of great info. I'm a jazz fan, and there were many great box sets and reissues in the "CD years". That stuff never would have seen the light of day had it not been for the "new" CD format. Will this continue with the MP3 or other "non-physical" format? Sadly, probably not.

They're starting to do that with vinyl also. They may have to include an extra disc but so what?

[chet]

Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

I have a really good turntable and a huge Vinyl collection. I still like the sound of Vinyl, but hear less of a difference than I used to. Perhaps because I'm older, or because I can't sit and listen any more - I'm on the go, in the car, or wandering around. True audiophile sound can't really be appreciated while riding on a lawnmower listening to an iPod, or the like...

One problem is that phono cartridge prices are through the roof! To replace the Micro Acoustics 530 mp that I still use (well, that one is impossible to replace since they went out of business), but cartridges anywhere near that quality would be around $1-2000 nowadays.

Maybe an Ortofon would do, but I think we'll see digital technology improve to the point where everything else will be outdated (someday).

My $129.00 Technics sounds awesome. I doubt I'll ever upgrade as long as I keep it up and make sure I dust it off and keep the junk off the needle.

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by Nick JD

The whole CD, cover and all, should have been inserted into the player and a slide could have revealed the playing surface like a floppy or a minidisc.

Good idea. My first computer CD-ROM drive was like that. You put your CD (or data disc) into a "caddy," and never touched it again. A little door slid open on the bottom, so the laser could read it...

[chet]

Originally Posted by kidA

Okay this is going to be long and rambling.

1. the cd isn't dead but it's in decline. The prevalance of the itunes+ipod combination is responsible for this decline, but this isn't to say that cds will be gone. there will always be people who want the physical copy, whether for audiophile or personal reasons.

2. this being said, i don't really buy cds anymore. this is simply because with my current set up both for portable and at desk listening, i don't have equipment that can give me the detail for me to distinguish between higher quality mp3s and lossless (wav on cd, or digital lossless). Itunes Plus and amazon both sell DRM free (no protection) AAC/mp3s at i believe over 200kbps (256 maybe?) and at that point, you are hardpressed to hear any difference even with the equipment in i'd say 70% of "popular contemporary" music (you can really tell with classical and jazz from my experience)

so i can't tell the difference between higher quality mp3 and cd, and even when i can it's only in a/b comparisons. actually walking around or even sitting and listening to a 192kbps+ mp3, i don't find enough artifacts, if any, to make me absolutely have to lug around all my cds)

3. vinyl is on the rise because vintage is in. see: reliced guitars. Vinyl has a romanticism related to it of an old feel, and people like this, they feel cool. also, in the audiophile community, you have people spending literally 10s of thousands of dollars to put together reference vinyl systems because of the quality of sound you get from the purely analog process. But this ties in with my final and most important point.

4. vinyl is also favored in audiophile circles because the older recordings had completely different production values that went into them.

We shouldn't be complaining about the death of cds or arguing about mp3s, but we should really be worried, or at least i'm worried, about the loss of dynamic range from the excessive loudness and compression in "pop music." I refer to this as "mainstream production," that glossy perfectly polished, but compressed sound that makes every pop singer, pop country, pop rock band sound the same. The production is so "clean" and "sparkly" and the sound is so filled out by filler noise from string samples or synth additions that the sonic landscape blends into a singular monovolume force that i really can't get so emotionally connected with, because in all honesty it feels artifical and insincere.

The prevalence of compressed file formats as the main vehicle for music through lower fidelity earbuds is in many ways, changing production values of sound engineers and the result is even good albums being ruined. well maybe not ruined, but very close. Just listen to even music from the 90s and compare it to today. Let's take U2's "Where the Streets Have No Name" and compare it to "Vertigo." It's hard to describe it, but there's just that sound of mainstream production. This is (in addition to the fact that mainstream popular music is garbage now, for the most part) why I find myself listening to more "indie" bands, because they generally have a less produced sound.

Like I said- you don't have to spend thousands of dollars on audio equipment to enjoy listening to vinyl. I think that's what's scaring a lot of people out of trying it. I'm using the relatively cheap Technics turntable and a Radio Shack Integrated Amp (that I already had).
Sure, you can get the state of the art turntable etc. but you don't have to. Rock music still sounds awesome on cheaper stuff if you get the right stuff.

[chet]

Originally Posted by geddins

CDs are probably done....

On another note, I don't understand why some folks would make statements that infer that those who choose to use ITunes/MP3's, etc are somehow ignorant or not true music lovers.

Yes, the quality isn't nearly as good...but when I'm riding my New Holland G4010 mower, the difference can't be heard....by me or ANYONE. When I'm on a 13 hour trip with the family and we all want to be able to listen to our OWN music...the difference isn't enough to matter....as Big John said...I'm listening to the MUSIC, not the gear.

I have no problem with those who choose to not adopt the Ipod/whatever as a means to listen to music. But please....don't get so worked up over it

Music is fun!

If you're using those little Ipod earphones I'd say that you're only hearing *part* of the music.

[chet]

Originally Posted by Jimo

I have 5 or 6 hundred albums with only a "half fast" turntable---to really reap the benefits of records you have to have a EXPENSIVE set up........It is a miracle we could even figure out the old songs by records---we could only hear half of what was going on with our $100 stereos......ha! JIMO

Not really...the technology has made good sound very affordable.

[chet]

Originally Posted by Skully

Equal or greater reaction? C'mon. Get real. The vinyl "revival" is a niche market fad. Specialty shops may be doing brisk business, your friends may be buying it, but it's not coming back as a force in the marketplace.

True...for the time being. If there's money to be made someone will take advantage of the opportunity and start reissuing good vinyl versions of popular music sooner or later.

The good used vinyl supply is thinning out as we speak.

[chet]

Originally Posted by tiktok

Unlike the amazingly robust LP...

Take care of them and they won't get scratched.

[chet]

Originally Posted by Kid Klash

Well, yes and no.

At today's retail prices, the answer is yes. Believe it or not, the largest retailer in the U.S. (and maybe the world now) is WalMart. They're having some very heated discussions with the bog labels, and they're demanding that CD's in their stores retail for $10 each or less. WalMart has recently downsized their CD shelf space too, further putting the squeeze on the labels. They told the labels that if they don't adjust the wholesale prices so that the retail price can drop to $10 or less across the board, they'll discontinue selling CDs alltogether. With the big labels spiraling down in flames these days, this is probably their last wakeup call. CD sales were down 15% last year, and they're down another 12% in just the first quarter of this year, so they better act fast. An interesting statistic is that most young people quit buying CDs a few years ago; they're only downloading music now, although the downloads aren't making up the difference either. Personally, I think the overall quality of commercially released music is at a all time low too...

There are so many other things to spend money on these days other than music.

One big problem with trying to listen to vinyl right now is that most music is very hard to get on a new vinyl disc. I'm forced to resort to buying the CD version. Right now I'm interested in getting some of the Stone Temple Pilots and Velvet Revolver recordings but they aren't available on Vinyl LP. I'll have to get the CDs for the time being.

[winny pooh]

I looove Cd's (have 300) but sadly they are going out. I find that at home, I just switch on the computer and play 95% of my music (around 95GB in mp3's) through my studio monitors with 002 as soundcard and never think "this quality is bad".
I will miss the art though, looking at a pdf at the computer is not like slouching on the sofa with a cd sleeve dreaming away.

[tpaul]

Originally Posted by winny pooh

I looove Cd's (have 300) but sadly they are going out. I find that at home, I just switch on the computer and play 95% of my music (around 95GB in mp3's) through my studio monitors with 002 as soundcard and never think "this quality is bad".
I will miss the art though, looking at a pdf at the computer is not like slouching on the sofa with a cd sleeve dreaming away.

That's funny. When CDs first came out, I (and lots of other folks) lamented that we could no longer look forward to the art, inserts, booklets, etc. that we used to get in those full-sized LP sleeves.

I never liked CDs. As someone said, they were a flawed design from the beginning. Not as warm and friendly as the vinyl LP, and not technically advanced enough to be easily portable and storable, and too susceptible to damage on top of all that. Unfortunately we haven't had much choice over the last two decades so I'm stuck with hundreds of them that I won't be able to afford to replace in whatever the new format is.

I think the last album I bought new on vinyl was Bob Dylan's "Under the Red Sky." Wonder what the last album I'll buy new on CD will be. Oh, wait, I never buy new albums on CD, I get them used from Amazon for a third of the price... never mind.