The Number 1 Fender Telecaster Guitar authority in the world.
fender telecaster electric guitar discussion forum
Make a donation with PayPal Telecaster Guitars at Ebay

Supporting Vendors
Wilde Pickups by Bill & Becky Lawrence WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Amps, Mods, Pedals dallenpickups.com Tommy Guitars Warmoth.com
advertise on the tdpri 


   

Go Back   Telecaster Guitar Forum > Other Discussion Forums > B-Bender Forum
Forgot Username/Password? Join Us!

Notices

B-Bender Forum Bend your mind around the TDPRI's B-Bender Forum.

Forum Jump


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 9th, 2012, 12:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Silverface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Age: 60
Posts: 2,810
Modernized take on Clarence White's bender

Shots of the other half of the pedal steel changer used for this one have been posted before; I supplied the changer (a stray from a short-scale Fender 400); Brian Friend came up with the design.

The lever system swivels, making the pull very even and linear (and about 1" - 1 1/8" at the strap depending on string gage); Dave Evans supplied Pullstring stops and spring tension adjuster systems.

This one (mine) is mounted on a VERY light Chinese pine body (not Pawlonia - a little heavier and more substantial, but with a resonance other lighter woods do not seem to have). I'm having a brain freeze so I'll let Brian chip in with who made the back rims (sorry! ).

Should have the assembly done by tomorrow night. The neck is a GFS (don't laugh - one of my students has built a dozen guitars using these necks and they're great!).

I used all light parts and Brian worked out the lightweight bender design intentionally - my bad back has a tough time with my 11 pound Nashville West for extended sessions. This puppy, with all the stuff piled on a scale, comes in at right around 8 pounds, which I think has to be a record for a double-back, non-routed strap-lever type bender!








__________________
“No Chops – Great Tone” ©
Silverface is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Ads   #
Sponsored posting
 
 
Join Date: March, 2003
Location: Forum HQ
Age:
Posts: N/A
Sponsored by...

Google is online  
Old February 9th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Woodsfield, OH
Age: 36
Posts: 1,435
I REALLY want a Clarence type guitar. A reasonable facsimile like this would be perfect. I like taking the same vibe and making it more modern too.good job!
Chet Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9th, 2012, 09:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
TEXXBEND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quebec City Canada
Age: 67
Posts: 24
Very good work... Very impressive.
Beautiful tribute to Clarence White,...Bravo.
__________________
B-Bender on guitar = Free Pedal/Steel on the stage.
TEXXBEND is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #4 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
telex76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fort Worth,Tx.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,823
Beautiful, enjoy it.
telex76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Silverface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Age: 60
Posts: 2,810
More pics -

It went together without a hitch. Pickups are a set of Duncan Broadcasters, installed with a 4-way switch (just for the moment...other plans brewing for the electronics but I wanted to get an idea of the overall tone in "stock form first).

Interestingly, just like the Nashville West guitars made by Mike "Stringpull" Nihen, which have a false back for appearance, this one resonates due to the chamber on the back (and the ultralight pine body). The action is extremely low and the relief is 0.00" - dead flat.

I guessed at the action and intonation, threw a preslotted Tusq nut on the fat GFS neck (don't laugh - they may be cheap, but the quality has been excellent and there's an interesting advantage...

At the tech shop where I teach we've been comparing necks from various sources and have found an interesting variation - the placement of the headstock in relation to the back (and fretboard). Fenders...mostly...are dead flat along the back, and the angle from nut to tuners usually requires a B/E tree. Some of the "big name" aftermarket suppliers vary from flat to 3/32" or so dropped back, with a slightly greater angle.

An old 70's Mitey Mite (different company) I have is actually angled slightly - as are ESP's (even more so). A Scott Lentz neck I have is dropped back about 1/16", with a fat profile giving it a good break angle.

The GFS necks, though (both the Teles and Strats) drop from 1/8" to 3/16"; doesn't sound like much, but it means no string trees and very easy behind the nut bends. The profile varies - this one is beefy, .968 at the 14th fret and .935 at the first., 1.66 wide at the nut. I get them as paddles and carve a sort of "volute" on the back, but above the nut. Not too worried about maple necks suffering from "Les Paul Disease" (broken headstocks).

Fretwork was clean - I didn't even polish 'em, did zero setup except for neck relief, set the action by eye and it plays beautifully and in tune. Really good snap with a .0135 3rd string (the rest a hybrid .009 set) and the chambered back gives it great "on the edge of feedback" sustain through a cranked '66 BFDR. Really roars in the series position. Sounds (in the bridge position) remarkably like the '68/69 Clarence recordings, before Red Rhodes installed the Velvet Hammer pickup/harness (which is what this will have someday...I hope...).

Just need to slap on the Frankfurt and Nudie stickers and find another Satellite emblem!

Oh - total weight...just under 8 pounds, with strap!
(Note - tops of dome knobs are NOT black! it's just a weird reflection)


The back cover of traditional virgin Masonite!

Just needed a tiny notch filed with a diamond needle file for the string to clear the back of the bridge plate. It's hard to see at all!

(snicker) - my tribute to the years of friendly needling over Clarence's original configuration (an Esquire) and a group of us finally finding photos showing multiple necks on Clarence's guitar over the years! Yes, Vintage Police, I know, I know...but it's never gonna be sold and there's no way it could be mistaken for a real Fender. Maybe....
__________________
“No Chops – Great Tone” ©
Silverface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Silverface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Age: 60
Posts: 2,810
Sloppy one-take sound file into a Yamaha handheld recorder. Please ignore the pathetic timing - the tone (both pickups, .068uf tone cap w/250k pots, tone rolled off 15%, volume backed off 10%) and sustain are what I wanted to show. Even with the little Y-pattern mics sitting 5' from a BFDR (which was only turned up to 3) the sustain is still evident at the end:

YAGN intro
__________________
“No Chops – Great Tone” ©
Silverface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 01:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
BrianF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Carlsbad, Ca
Posts: 2,511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chet Johnson View Post
I REALLY want a Clarence type guitar. A reasonable facsimile like this would be perfect. I like taking the same vibe and making it more modern too.good job!
Silverface's Tele (shown above) was the second half of this project. The first one that I built was for myself. I machined all the parts for both guitars myself in my garage with the exception of the actual pedal steel chrome fingers and part of the changer. The rest of the mechanism is an all new design that I came up with

The fake wooden backs were fabricated and supplied by my friend Mike McCullough (Dogbear on the TDPRI, Clarence White forum and UMGF)..

Here's a couple pix of my finished Tele


BrianF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 12:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
jmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 1,835
Excellent Jim! I shoulda figured you'd get Fender steel parts on a guitar somehow!
JB (SGF)
jmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
telex76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fort Worth,Tx.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,823
Great BrianF, very nice.
telex76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Silverface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Age: 60
Posts: 2,810
Brian did absolutely amazing work. We originally intended to copy Gene Parsons' original design, but 1) it's been done once, by Gene for TDPRI member Mur, and 2) it was a daunting task. So Brian came up with plan of using the same basic platform I'd come up with, the pedal steel changer as used on the original, and updating the mechanism using modern engineering ideas and tapping Dave Evans' genius to provide some flexibility to the feel.

The whole result is a quiet, smooth bender with an absolutely consistent fell on the up and downstrokes; you can stop anywhere along the line and hold your position, drift slowly in and out without any stutter, and snap it quickly to and from a note like a short throw. Combine that with Dave's tension adjustment system and it can be set up to any player's liking.

Some like a tight bender - I set mine right on the edge of accidental bends, where the weight of the guitar doesn't cause a pitch change...but just barely. It's not a setting I recommend to my students (who end up hitting sharp notes unintentionally) but it's a really good setting for experienced bender players.
__________________
“No Chops – Great Tone” ©
Silverface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
BrianF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Carlsbad, Ca
Posts: 2,511
Here's how the project developed and the influences...

Speaking of influences, anyone that is familiar with artistic things like playing guitar can appreciate the concept of 'standing on the shoulders of giants'. The same applies to technical and engineering related design...some things are execution by rote and others are the result of inspiration and external influence in creating yet again something new. This is how these 2 particular benders came about...

In the very beginning all I could so was stare at pictures of Clarence's original and not having access to it for inspection, nor the experience or machinery of Gene Parsons, I had to adapt using things that I knew how to do, and had to learn and or invent. Using the tools at my disposal which were a small bench-top lathe and milling machine. The notion of copying Clarence's original exactly was quickly abandoned.

Main Influences (in order of importance)

#1. Clarence's original Parsons designed and fabricated B Bender
Overall look, basic pedal steel changer. General arrangement of the Strap lever, and position of the pull rod, and spring location, the use of a fake back, and back mounted components without routing. Bolt through body for strap lever.

#2. A Parsons custom b bender based on the Clarence's original but different (Mur's first custom Parsons bender)
The means by with the pedal steel changer is attached to the pull rod, and overall arrangement of that section of the bender.

#3. Conversation with Bob Warford
Helped clarify some points that further solidified ideas in 2.

#4. Parsons Greene benders
The use of and general design and fabrication of the clevis's used to attached the rod ends

#5. Higgins Peg bender
methods used to secure strap lever to strap lever hub

#6. Parsons White (contemporary design)
Experience from thorough knowledge of and installing Parsons White benders led to my own design and implementation of the strap lever hub (some influence from #1 here too). I used a Parsons White B tuning screw on my bender. General location of bender rest stop. There are other similarities to the modern PW bender too such as spring location but that comes from the #1 original design

#7. My own ideas to adapt all of the above including some new ideas not seen elsewhere
strap lever hub mentioned in #6 as well as the detailed design and fabrication of the strap lever, the clevis, and rods

#8. Evans bender
The use of Evans spring tension adjuster. The use of Evans Delrin stop on the top side of the strap lever. Use of Evans tuning adjuster (on Silverface's bender)
BrianF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2012, 02:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
TelePeter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 158
That is just some awesome work! Thanks for sharing!
TelePeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oregon
Age: 32
Posts: 11
fantastic! i bow to you both. now i need the double back for my P/G "Clarence".
smithcollector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
jd_elam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 76
Looks great! Very nice work!
jd_elam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Silverface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Age: 60
Posts: 2,810
Finishing touches...

The Frankfurt and Nudie stickers (with the wrong Nudie sticker - Clarence had a "black hat" one that Marty replaced with a different one), and the Satellite emblem have been done a zillion times, so since the bender is updated:



(If you don't know what all of those are, you need to do some research...)
__________________
“No Chops – Great Tone” ©
Silverface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2012, 02:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Don Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Age: 61
Posts: 1,153
Pretty slick guitar there Jim...nice blend of old and new....sort of a Parsons White Friend Evans Jim...you need to add someone with a name that starts with a vowel to get a good acronym...I spend about a half and hour playing with your YAGN intro...like Ive heard that Bb to C bend on the C chord a billion times but never thought to play it...ya learn something every day...
Don Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2012, 12:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids Mi.
Posts: 145
Wow!
coolbreeze475 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 12:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Silverface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach CA
Age: 60
Posts: 2,810
Followup -

This thing is more fun to play than can be described legally ;-)

I got *real* lucky with the off-the-wall choice of a cheap, ultralight Chinese pine body, which was strictly due to serious back problems. Not only is it a light guitar (especially for this or any similar type of bender, much less one with an extra back!) but the tone/sustain are unbelievable.

I fully expected it to be a fun guitar and a conversation piece - something I'd take to jams and a few ggs here and there. But I'm finding it gets as much playing time as my #1, my Evans Pullstring prototype. It gets the more traditional "Tele-ish" work while the Evans gets the prog-rock, edgier and blues stuff.

Now, to address a question I've gotten about 25 times via email:

To duplicate one of these is a complicated process. I can't speak for Brian (so I will - snicker)...it isn't a cheap proposition as everything except the changer and bearings is hand-made, with stops and spring tensioning systems from Dave Evans that would also have to be purchased.

The biggest hurdle besides money - finding a Fender pedal steel changer. The only suitable ones are from Fender short-scale 400 and 1000 8-string pedal steels, manufactured from '64 - '81 (actually those are catalog dates - the first ones may have been made in '63 and the last probably in the mid-70's).

These were NOT popular with steel players (the earlier Fenders are much preferred) and resulting production numbers are estimated to be very low...with 400's far outnumbering 1000's. The changers from the 10-string models are totally different and not suitable; a long-repeated error attributed to Gene Parsons (but undoubtedly made by someone unfamiliar with Fender steels) noted that Clarence's original bender used an 800 changer that Gene got from Sneaky Pete; that's incorrect. It was a 400 changer (the 1000 changer is identical - as a double neck it just had two of them).

One changer can be split to make two benders...but the problem is, spare changers are as rare as hen's teeth on the used market, and Fender steel players will seldom sell a steel to someone if they know it's going to be parted out and chopped up...even the short-scale models have increased in demand (and price) in recent years.

Which is partially my fault as the "owner" of the Fender Steel Forum. Oops!

IF you could find a beater short-scale 400 (and I don't condone buying one to chop up) it'd probably cost you $700-1000 plus $100-200 shipping. Some of that would be recovered in selling parts (which are in very short supply - none are made any longer and Fender can't locate any engineering drawings), but the whole thing would be a huge hassle before you even got the key unit to Brian.

And then you STILL need a guitar to mount it in.

I have not seen a changer for sale, ever. And I'm sorta the "go-to" guy for parts for these monsters! I had one because I was very lucky about 8 years ago to locate a mint 400 and a basket case that had a changer - which became the bender "donor" part. I needed other parts to increase the number of pedals on my initial Fender 400 (since superseded by a hot-rodded long-scale 1959 model).

There HAVE been other "clones" made, but none recently since demand has increased for "whole" steels. I'm sure a changer will show up somewhere someday, but it would be sheer luck for it to be found by a guitar player wanting a bender...and not a steel player who wants to rebuild an old Fender steel.

So all I can say is - good hunting!
__________________
“No Chops – Great Tone” ©
Silverface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
telex76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fort Worth,Tx.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,823
Congrats on the finished look.
telex76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
Tele-Holic
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: "Between raisin' hell and Amazing Grace"
Posts: 776
NOYCE!
__________________
"You've left my heart a vacant lot...I'll fill it with another shot"

John Prine
BWNadeau is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump




IMPORTANT:Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult! No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2
© TDPRI.COM 1999 - 2012 All rights reserved.