Hipshot B-string downforce solution

[voided3]

I had a lightbulb moment tonight after getting sick of nearly zero downforce on my B string w/ my Hipshot equipped Esquire. I had tried running it through a hole in the back of the ashtray, but it would bind up. I tried the metal hook, but even with it bent down, it wouldn't give enough pressure when using light gauge strings. Here is my solution (my camera doesn't take good close-ups):




I removed the springs form the Hipshot (for looks) and screwed into the body of the guitar through the bridge a graphite string tree. I just detuned the B string, lined up the tree, marked where I needed to drill, then drilled with a bit the same diameter as the screw (so it won't thread into the metal, but don't drill into the body with this bit!), then switched to a small 1/16" bit for the screw I used that extends about 3/8" into the body; I think it's a strap button screw.

I tuned it up and it stays in tune perfectly with ample downforce on the saddle (notice mine are slotted, too). Remember that my ashtray is notched in the back, which is essential for this to work. If I ever need to raise or lower my action, I can adjust the string tree height by either sanding the bottom of it or loosening the screw that holds it and putting some thin washers under it like those used on the butterfly trees. The nice thing about this is the tree blends in with the bridge and if you ever take off the Hipshot, just get a new $9 baseplate and the hole is covered up.

The only drawback is that those w/ G benders won't be able to hook both the B and G under the tree unless they rig up a custom tree or maybe modify one of those metal string trees that go over all six. I hope this helps anyone w/ the same problem!

[Chet Johnson]

I'm sure that works well. I never owned a Hipshot, but To resolve the binding at the hole through the bridge, I used a Piece of teflon tubing through that hole. It comes with Hipshot benders, and that's where I got it from for the Timara. It works pretty well, you get down force and no binding.

Your idea is cool though. Did you try the Teflon tubing?

[BrianF]

It's hard to see what you did, but anything that increases the downward force on the saddle will increase the friction and 'sawing' action of the string through the saddle.... especially brass saddles. You should notice a groove being cut pretty quick in the brass, after which the string will start to get stuck in teh groove and you'll need to keep it lubricated.

Another side effect of pulling down the string behind the saddle is that it lengthens the distance that the string has to travel in order for it to be pulled up a whole step. It's due to some basic geomtery math...the string no longer forms a straight line as it goes over the saddle so to get the same pull across the saddle the bender has to mov emore... Some benders run out of adjustment tuning range if this happens. Did you notice this?

[voided3]

I had tried the Teflon and it got hung up when ran through the hole (it wore right through it and made direct contact w/ the metal). I have .009's on the guitar so it doesn't get too much of the "sawing effect," and when it does I can just flip the saddle over or get some steel ones (though I used to have steel on the guitar and I prefer how the brass sounds). I didn't have to adjust it too much between the stock setup and now, just a little tweak. I had to play with the height of the string tree a bit to make it come back into tune just right as too much downforce made it bind again, and I put a dab of 3-in-1 oil on the saddle as well.

What would you guys recommend for saddles? I have determined that I need notched saddles to keep my G, B and high E from sliding around from bending since the guitar came with unslotted steel barrels. Would the compensated RS Guitarworks saddles do the trick (or vintage style threaded ones), or should I look into String Savers (which I hear don't do the greatest things to your sound)? Thanks!

[voided3]

I searched and found a few threads about the saddles. It sounds like the String Savers might be an option, but it doesn't cost me anything to just keep lubricating what I have now. I have some steel saddles sitting around, too, but I am curious about how the RS Guitarworks sets hold up with benders.

[jmiles]

I think it's a great idea! And you'll get better tone and more sustain from the B string now. A small price to pay in order to sound better!

[MickM]

Took me a few minutes to figure out what the hum you were saying. Afew looks at the pics and I see! Looks good. I had an issue with the lack of downward force with a stock G&L six saddle bridge but cured it with one of their hook springs and a notch.

Truth is If I wasn't so lazy I could've probably fixed it by shimming the neck and been done! Just one more way to skin a cat I guess! Enjoy and get Will's instructional disc if you're a beginner. Lots of cool stuff that'll take you years to figure out on your own. JMO of course.

[tele2313]

That is a great idea i had a hipshot on my tele for 10 + years and loved it but always had a string tension problem & when I had the string tension a tuning problem. I had kinda the same idea as you but didn't think to put the string tree in the bridge I was planning to put it behind the bridge. I have taken the bender off the guitar and its been in a drawer for a couple years but I might just have to get it out and try this. I even still have the string trees I bought years ago and didnt have the heart to drill in to the wood behind the bridge. Thanks for the idea.

[voided3]

The key is to have it close to the saddle with very little break angle so it doesn't bind, but still has something holding in place from side to side and upward movement. I actually raised it up a bit since the pic and it's rock stable with an addition of 3-in-1 oil on the saddle.

[eddiewagner]

have the same result with a simple little hole in the back of the ashtray.

[voided3]

Call it overkill of you want, but here's my phase two of Hipshot madness:





I removed the felt from underneath it and cleaned off the adhesive with WD40 (which I cleaned off with degreaser). I then drilled and countersunk two holes in the front edge of the base plate and then drilled and countersunk (to avoid finish chipping) the holes in the body and threaded in the screws with some wax on the threads. I also relocated the strap button to the bass side stabilizer hole since I use Dunlop strap locks and the bar sometimes hits them. I must say it is dead stable with this setup and doesn't have the flexing like before, but I'd imagine this would have been more useful for those with G-levers and other doodads. Peace of mind for free, and the unit isn't leaving this guitar any time soon/ever.

[voided3]

Oh, and here's the rest of the guitar ('06 MIM 50's Esquire):




I just finished making that pickguard for it from a piece of black fiberboard covered in many coats of wipe on poly. Not too bad for a homebrew experiment, but I may spend the $15 for a real one once it wears through and looks sketch. This photo also partly shows off my "Jeff Beck" tummy cut I added with an oscillating spindle sander and followed up with tung oil. No more bruised rig rage for me (seriously, it's happened)!

[gumbo]

Naw...

...overkill would have been a ROLLER string tree....

[jmiles]

"I removed the felt from underneath it and cleaned off the adhesive with WD40 (which I cleaned off with degreaser). I then drilled and countersunk two holes in the front edge of the base plate "

An action that I advocated a couple of weeks ago here on the Forum. It made my double bender Hipshot much more stable. It also eliminated most of what steel players call "cabinet drop." There's no doubt in my mind that that felt is a problem with double benders. Not so much with just B benders, but it's a good idea to have the baseplate coupled tightly to the body.

[asatfan]

Nice lookin' rig there! That's a nice job on the extra holes on the face...looks great. I also like the "tummy" cut...Tele's can be kinda hard on the ribs sometimes!

[voided3]

Originally Posted by jmiles

"I removed the felt from underneath it and cleaned off the adhesive with WD40 (which I cleaned off with degreaser). I then drilled and countersunk two holes in the front edge of the base plate "

An action that I advocated a couple of weeks ago here on the Forum. It made my double bender Hipshot much more stable. It also eliminated most of what steel players call "cabinet drop." There's no doubt in my mind that that felt is a problem with double benders. Not so much with just B benders, but it's a good idea to have the baseplate coupled tightly to the body.

I think your post was the one that inspired me to do it, so I owe you credit for that good idea.

[jmiles]

Well,,,, Thank you! That felt is soft. The felt compresses when you use a lever, and even if your bend is in tune, other strings will go slightly flat when the felt compresses even ever so slightly. Removing the felt and screwing down the baseplate eliminated probably 2/3s of the "cabinet drop" on my guitar.

[BrianF]

Originally Posted by eddiewagner

have the same result with a simple little hole in the back of the ashtray.

I would imagine that this would be true..although don't you have a problem with the sting rubbing against the raw cut edge of the metal bridge? Seems like it would tend to break the string.

[jmiles]

"string rubbing against the raw cut edge of the metal bridge?"

Brian, you just use a pice of teflon tubing. I think Hipshot still includes it. But if not, go to a bike shop and get a brake cable liner. That's what I use. Plus a drop of oil into the tube, or an extra shot of Triflow.