Tremolo system for a B-bender tele..?

[rednebb]

Hello, this may sound crazy, but would it be possible to install a tremolo system of some kind on my Nashville B-bender Tele (Parsons-Green system)..?
And of course, I also want a tremolo system that stays in tune and allows me to do all the normal tele stuff: double-stop bends, drop tuning and even breaking a string without the other strings going flat, like on conventional strat or floyd rose systems. Am I asking for the impossible..?

[dconeill]

The web is a wonderful research tool. Learn to use it.

For example, in five minutes searching I found this, which isn't what you've stated you're looking for but might suffice:
http://www.geocities.com/dbalde.geo/dbbigsbypp.html

[Don Miller]

I read somewhere someone put a stringbender in a strat in such a way that the tremelo still worked. If I recall, they used Gene Parsons' G bender hardware to bend the B string. It may have been Larry at Music One who did it.

[BrianF]

This Chimemaster bridge from Glendale might work for you. You would have to drill a hole in the rear edge pf the bridge for the b string

http://www.glendaleguitars.com/trem%20blocks.htm

[helle_man]

This is a Trem King that Mac Whiteside installed on one of my guitars. Works great. The funny thing is, the B string is independent of the trem. You can dive bomb all 5 strings but the B string stays on pitch.

[Ming]

That is , undoubtedly, the most "industrial fire rescue" looking guit I've ever seen.

Good that it works to your perfection as it is plum ugly IMHO.

chuckling in good nature fellowship I remain,

Ray W.

[Iain]

The Holy Grail of benders - for me - would be to have a strap-activated bender and a trem that worked on all 6 strings both functioning on the same guitar. Don't really see how it'd be possible, though (I realise a trem-equipped guitar and a Higgins-type headstock bender would do it but I'm shallow enough to prefer not to have the wacky look of a link from my strap to the headstock)

[asatfan]

I think that guitar is delightful! Makes me smile...

[rednebb]

Originally Posted by dconeill

The web is a wonderful research tool. Learn to use it.

For example, in five minutes searching I found this, which isn't what you've stated you're looking for but might suffice:
http://www.geocities.com/dbalde.geo/dbbigsbypp.html

Yes, I know how to use the web.. And no, this was not what I was looking for; this is not a tremolo system, but a string bender system..

But thanks for your reply anyway

[rednebb]

Are you actually Will Ray himself..? If you are, I'm deeply honored, I'm a big fan! And that guitar of yours is amazingly ugly and cool at the same time..;-) But I like the tremolo/B-bender arrangement, that's exactly what I was thinking, that the B-bender would have to be independent of the trem. But I was hoping I could find a trem system that was easy to install so I could do it myself and didn't require routing and stuff, like the Stetsbar, but I guess there would be no room for my B-bender there..?

[jmiles]

Maybe with a Bigsby? On second thought, and second reading your first post, NAHHHHH!
But maybe I'll put my Higgins peg bender on my Nashville Tele that I put a Bigsby on. That might be fun!

[rednebb]

Originally Posted by jmiles

Maybe with a Bigsby? On second thought, and second reading your first post, NAHHHHH!
But maybe I'll put my Higgins peg bender on my Nashville Tele that I put a Bigsby on. That might be fun!

I've been thinking about a Bigsby type maybe, but I'm more intrigued by the Stetsbar, however it's probably not "compatible" with my Parsons/Green B-bender..

[BrianF]

Originally Posted by rednebb

I've been thinking about a Bigsby type maybe, but I'm more intrigued by the Stetsbar, however it's probably not "compatible" with my Parsons/Green B-bender..

I was looking one of those and it definitely looks like it would interfere with the B Bender hub..

[rednebb]

Thank you everyone for your replies and suggestions, but now I think I've found a solution: A Bigsby B5/50 (since the Stetsbar option won't work) combined with a special telecaster bridge taken from a cheap mini tele copy that I suddenly realized I had, where the strings go through the back of the bridge instead of through the body (there's an extra string-hole next to each individual saddle adjustment screw). So I'm planning to replace the original bridge plate on my tele with the one from the tele copy (the dimensions seems to be exactly the same), and then installing a Bigsby B5 or B50 (what's the difference between these, by the way?) According to my calculations, the B-bender "hub" should just go clear under the Bigsby string retainer bar (if that's what it's called?). Hopefully, I'll come back with a report later when I'm done with the operation..

[Chet Johnson]

https://secure.centurytel.net/musico...hop/videos.cfm

This page states several times that the strats pictured have full tremolo use and B Bender. Would that mean that a Parsons equipped tele could get a strat trem installer and possibly work?

A parsons Greene bender should (in theory) have more downward string pressure than a hipshot on the B string.

I'd like to hear if it works.

[bender-freak]

check with this guy www.b&wbenders.com he lives here in Springfield, Missouri, USA, is a semi-retired machinist, has done work for me in the past and all of it top-notch and really quick.....he can/has done benders and full function tremolo systems...am thinking seriously about buying one of his MIM's here before too long with B and G and A benders installed...

[Greg Seaman]

Hey helle man,
Your playing is so hot, it looks as if you've toasted your guitar! This looks like a great setup. Is it possible to hear the trem/b-bender in action? Have you recorded anything with it?

[Greg Seaman]

My curiosity just got the best of me and I just did some research on the Trem King. The reason why the B string on helle man's Trem King/Hipshot setup is unaffected by the trem bar is because the Trem King bridge is screwed directly to the top of the guitar in a fixed-bridge fashion. Only the tremolo block underneath the bridge moves, not the bridge itself as in a traditional Fender Strat trem.

Strings that do not pass through the Trem King trem block are unaffected by the trem bar. In order for the Hipshot B-Bender to work, the string must pass through it and not through the Trem King trem block.

Because of this, only the remaining 5 strings are affected by the trem bar. This can be interpreted as an advantage or disadvantage depending on the player's requirements. It's pretty subjective but hey, this is a pretty unique setup and very clever too.

Here's a link to Trem King's site and a couple of videos that explain the nitty gritty of the Trem King system: http://tremking.com/vid.html

Please be patient as it takes a couple of seconds for the second video to appear. That's the one that really explained it for me.

[Mac Whiteside]

Hey Ya`ll,

What has`nt been discussed is how it sounds when you bend the B but go down with the bar ! Another plus is that you can still restring the B thru the trem and have that too, if you`re normal. Rusty`s trems stay in tune when bending strings unlike some regular units which is way nice.

This guitar has a severe bi-polar disorder, please don`t dis it`s appearance too much ! It does`nt know if it`s a Tele or a Strat and, well, when it get`s upset, we have to use fire to calm it down !

Have fun !
Mac

[helle_man]

Originally Posted by Mac Whiteside

Hey Ya`ll,

What has`nt been discussed is how it sounds when you bend the B but go down with the bar ! Another plus is that you can still restring the B thru the trem and have that too, if you`re normal. Rusty`s trems stay in tune when bending strings unlike some regular units which is way nice.

This guitar has a severe bi-polar disorder, please don`t dis it`s appearance too much ! It does`nt know if it`s a Tele or a Strat and, well, when it get`s upset, we have to use fire to calm it down !

Have fun !
Mac

========================
If you don't know, Mac is the guy who does all of my custom guitar work, including Turg-a-zilla pictured here.

[Greg Seaman]

Yup! I second the motion. I think you'll love it here, Mac! It's a huge resource. Nice job on Will's guitar. I've been trying to figure out the B-bender/trem thing for a while now and your solution is the best I've seen so far. Very clever although I still wonder if there's a way to make the trem work on the B string while still keeping the bender functioning. How'd did you toast the guitar? Propane torch?

REDNEBB, I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with as far as a bender/trem goes. I have a BB Tele very similar to yours. After all, this is your thread. Everyone, I highly recommend checking out REDNEBB's youtube videos. The guy can play!!

[telesavant]

Zitnik/Moore's Pat. # 3,479,917....1969....allows the bending of select strings and the option of vibrato on those select strings.

[J. Hayes]

sat on the floor in front of him was pretty unique! The pulling device on the guitar also had a tremolo arm on it so he could bend any of the six strings and use the tremolo arm at the same time.........

I don't really like the way they look, but if you're wanting the tremolo arm to work on all six strings along with a bender, I think the Higgin's Peg Bender would have to be the answer as it'd be on the peghead of the guitar and would work no matter what type of bender was on the guitar. Some of the "floating" type tremolos might detune a bit when it was operated though. I don't think I'd like a tremolo that didn't activate all six strings.

All that said, I was entranced with something I noticed on Will Ray's B-Bender Mania video! In addition to the bending licks I particularly watched his left hand. On a non vibrato guitar it's hard to add tremolo to a full chord. Will would hold a chord and just move his index finger, thus adding vibrato on only one string! Yet it gave the impression that the whole chord was moving. A pretty sweet trick, I'd never seen that done before and have since added it to my bag of tricks........Thanks Will.....JH in Va.

[telesavant]

That is very true...a single string massaged into vibrato will give the illusion the entire chord is shifting pitch....because it IS in relation to the string that vibrato is being applied to!!

[gumbo]

Zitnik/Moore's Pat. # 3,479,917....1969....allows the bending of select strings and the option of vibrato on those select strings.....

.......and basically is pretty much the layout of a Bigsby Palm Pedal...

[telesavant]

Originally Posted by gumbo

Zitnik/Moore's Pat. # 3,479,917....1969....allows the bending of select strings and the option of vibrato on those select strings.....

.......and basically is pretty much the layout of a Bigsby Palm Pedal...

Similar....except for the available vibrato and single stringbending abilities combined......additionally; the hand operated pedals are similar, but that is where the similiarities end. This, as far as I'm aware, never saw the light of day...unless the patent was parked with Bigsby for them to do as they pleased and it morphed into the Palm Pedals as we know them. I thought Boomer Castleman invented the Palm Pedal though?

[gumbo]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing the detail in that drawing....are the levers actually 'suspended' against the pressure of a spring somewhere then?? ....thus allowing pitch raise and lower from the central (neutral) position??

...and yes, I thought Boomer C's design was the one that morphed into the Bigsby...just saw a few similarities in this one....perhaps JH can confirm that...

[telesavant]

Originally Posted by gumbo

I guess I'm having trouble seeing the detail in that drawing....are the levers actually 'suspended' against the pressure of a spring somewhere then?? ....thus allowing pitch raise and lower from the central (neutral) position??

...and yes, I thought Boomer C's design was the one that morphed into the Bigsby...just saw a few similarities in this one....perhaps JH can confirm that...

Don't feel bad...I'm looking at it and it's difficult to ascertain its function, but it appears that spring #70, in cavities #72 and #74, allow a shift in pitch of the entire assembly downward to deadstop #42. Not sure if it can be made to float...but I doubt it. I'll have to go back and read the patent again for more detail.