B Bender installer in Britain and another question

[hip hop chip sh]

I would like to have a Parsons/White B-bender fitted to one of my Telecasters.

Has anyone had experience of sending a telecaster to Gene Parsons to have him fit a B-bender from the UK?

Does anyone know of someone based in England who can install a B Bender.

Also, can anyone explain the difference between a Parsons/White and a Parsons/Green string bender.

Also! Is it bad of me to want to put the B-bender into one of my cheaper teles; A mexican squire around £300 from 8 years ago.

Also, sorry lots of questions, can a b bender be fitted to a thin line telecaster.

Glad to be part of your community - Darren

[vjf1968]

There has been some folks here that had Gene Parsons install the B-Bender but it is expensive and takes some time. The difference with the 2 b-benders is the Parsons/White bender is put together and installed in to the guitar while the Parsons/Green unit is already assembled and is made of stainless steel. I think the installation on a P/G bender is a little cheaper also.

But honestly both do the same thing.

B-benders can be installed on any guitar, even Les Pauls. The only downside is once it is on it is on forever.

I suggest you try the HipShot B-Bender. You can install it yourself and it is reversable. It took me 20 minutes (because I went the extra mile and anchored it with 2 screws along with the strap button) and it is also a cheaper alternative. Plus if B-Bending isn't for you can sell the bender on E-Bay and your guitar will go back to normal.

[hip hop chip sh]

Originally Posted by vjf1968

There has been some folks here that had Gene Parsons install the B-Bender but it is expensive and takes some time. The difference with the 2 b-benders is the Parsons/White bender is put together and installed in to the guitar while the Parsons/Green unit is already assembled and is made of stainless steel. I think the installation on a P/G bender is a little cheaper also.

But honestly both do the same thing.

B-benders can be installed on any guitar, even Les Pauls. The only downside is once it is on it is on forever.

I suggest you try the HipShot B-Bender. You can install it yourself and it is reversable. It took me 20 minutes (because I went the extra mile and anchored it with 2 screws along with the strap button) and it is also a cheaper alternative. Plus if B-Bending isn't for you can sell the bender on E-Bay and your guitar will go back to normal.

I've had a look at the hip shot thing, but I think I really want the parson/white one. Its funny but I quite like the invasive nature of them.

Once done, forever!

Has anyone here had experience of sending their tele to Gene from England?

And just to re-ask a question does anybody know of someone performing this service in the UK?

[Iain]

Jimmy Moon, in Glasgow, fits them. He's a great tech and builds some lovely guitars.

http://www.moonguitars.co.uk/

[BrianF]

Bill Bores told me once that Charlie Chandler's Guitar Experience in the UK was going to start installing them. You can use any US installer as well but have the extra hassle of the expensive shipping and value added tax coming back into the UK.....

As for which guitar to install it on....Parsons White B Benders are best installed on guitars with a vintage 3 saddle bridge. It can be done on a modern bridge but is more difficult and non-standard installation. Also...The tele should be a a guitar that you already enjoy playing since you most likely be playing it ALOT after the B Bender is installed. With that in mind many people have it installed on their number 1 Tele...

[Silverface]

"But honestly both do the same thing."

Not really.

They both bend the "B" string via the shoulder strap - but that's where the similarity ends. The mechanisms are totally different, and the hubs even pull in different ways. The PW is a more finely-machined and precision-made unit. It also has less tendency to go out of adjustment, and unless you have someone working with you that REALLY knows their way around a Parsons Green they all have a slight "hitch" in the pull where the tension increases near the middle of the throw - it can be really disconcerting and make it difficult to do smooth, slow bends. That being said, IF you have the right installer and IF the unit is set up properly it can be pretty good for the money.

After playing Hishots quite a bit over a two-year period, I have to say they don't feel nearly as smooth or natural *to me* as a PW or even PG-type. Even with extra holes drilled in the end of the guitar and Hipshot to stablize it, it just had a "loose" feel and a very light tension I didn't care for. And with those two holes drilled, your guitar is anything BUT "back to normal" if you remove the unit. Try to sell a drilled '52 reissue or vintage Tele on eBay...those holes will affect the value significantly (maybe not justifiably, but that's the way it is!)

If I stumbled on one again the first thing I'd do is try to develop sometype of "reverse helper" spring to increase the tension a bit. It's something we often do on vintage Fender pedal steels (mainly the 1964 and later short-scale models), where string raises can have a weirdly light feel on the pedal(s). A spring pulling against it gives it a much more solid feel...that's something I think might work for me on a Hipshot. But as far as I'm concerned, the shoulder-strap types feel far more comfortable and natural.

As far as installation in Great Britain, a good luthier should be able to handle the installation, although the major British players I know of all had theirs done stateside. You could check with BrianF about a contact for parts and if there's not yet a local installer you might be able to get one going.

[telesavant]

I use multiple springs of varying tension on the strap lever......eliminates any "hitch" problems. For any ancillary pulls where the guitar body doesn't have to be supported, and although the tension of the string itself COULD return to pitch, it would feel mushy...I use a spring assist that pulls the bellcrank into a deadstop, and gives the second or third pull some resistance. The pullstring changer itself also uses spring assist to return to "Zero" position.... this way the string only plays a small part in the return to pitch, as the mechanism theoretically, will return to "Zero" with no string attached.
The strap lever also has an adjustment of plus, or minus one pound of resistance...........Didn't mean to hijack, just responding to the "hitch", and lever resistance/tension concerns.

[Dogbear]

hip hop chip sh, as you can see, it doesn't take long for the different bender factions to start. All have their many merits, but in a nutshell, you asked about internal benders and a Parson's White bender in particular. I own (photos in the archive) a P/W long throw (Brian Friend install), a factory Fender Parson's Green Nashville and a Hipshot aluminum Parson's/Green and they are all slightly different. The Parson's White is certainly smoother, but you can get smooth bends with the P/G. The hitch that Silverface is talking about certainly exists in certain "non set up properly" P/Gs. It doesn't exist in mine and Brian F(riend) can explain to you how to get it out if it ever exists in yours. Both P/W and Parson's Green can be had in a long throw. The Parson's White on install and the Parson's Green with a long throw Clevis from Gene. The P/W is certainly a more sophisticated bender and is visually and functionally a step up from the P/G even with Fender Chrome. That being said, I play each kind about as much as the other. I particularly like the light weight of the Hipshot aluminum Parson’s Green.

Brian and I discussed the feasibility of installing a P/W in a thinline. Brian was sure it could be done, but he had not done one. He was sure that Gene could install one. Brian installed an Hipshot aluminum P/G in his. I have had bad GAS for a thinline like Brian's, but have avoided buying "another guitar". If I do a thinline, it will most likely have an aluminum P/G in it.

Also...The tele should be a guitar that you already enjoy playing since you most likely be playing it ALOT after the B Bender is installed. With that in mind many people have it installed on their number 1 Tele...

and in my #2 and #3 and any others that I might obtain in the future.

[dmt101proof]

I shipped one of my Teles out to Gene Parsons from the UK to have a long throw PW fitted. Turnaround time was pretty good - it was back with me in just under two months. I think Gene's prices are at the top end of the scale (I just fancied the idea of having mine installed by the inventor!) but it is the shipping costs that really add to the cost (I recall about £150 each way). Gene was a delight to deal with and did a masterly installation - as you would expect.

I did look for a UK installer. Didn't realise Jimmy Moon did the work (I have one of his bouzoukis which is an excellent instrument - if the quality of his bender installations matches the construction of his instruments it will be great).

[hip hop chip sh]

Thanks so much for all your help guys. This is a big learning curve but I feel like I'm getting there.

Could someone tell me what those pictures are of in telesavants pictures? I recognise the bottom pictures as a hipshot right? But what are those top pictures?

For the record and everyones info Moon Guitars replied to me and said;

"As far as we know the Parsons-White B Bender is no longer in production. We did at one time fit quite a few of these, but were contacted by Gene Parsons some time ago and he advised that he had decided to discontinue production. I think there are now alternatives available from Hipshot or perhaps Fender - but we have no information on htese.
I'm sorry I can't be of more help."

This seems to run contrary to whats being said here though, right? Gene seems to be still doing P/W string benders doesn't he?

OK some more questions. My only three saddle tele is my thinline, on balance from what everyone's said here I think I want a Parson/White put in this guitar, and you guys think this is at least feasible right?

BrianF, would you be someone who I could buy the B-bender P/W parts from and then I could get someone to fit in the UK? or are you someone I could send my guitar to and get to fit if the Gene Parsons idea proves to be prohibitively expensive?

Lastly, and for fun, I wasn't trying to explain B-bending guitar to someone and they asked me to make a compilation of great b-bending solos. Any suggestions?

[telesavant]

Hello hip hop chip sh;.... The referenced bottom pics are of my tailpiece, and pullslides, and are used in conjunction with the referenced top pics, which are of an unassembled, and assembled view of the workings of my strap actuated "B" pullstring system, and in this case, a double, with the "G" pull as the added string pull. Although the referenced bottom pics of the changer are propriatary to my system and have no connection to Hipshot, the pullslides can be added to any existing Hipshot tailpiece, thus... with the shown strap mechanism mainframe (referenced top pics), allows a strap actuated pull to be added to any Hipshot, or an additional strap actuated system can be added to any Parsons/White, or Glaser.... but is most often ordered as a stand alone single, double (shown), or triple pullstring system, using my tailpiece, and pullslides... for a strap actuated pullstring device that requires no routing, no holes, and can be installed in minutes.

This pic might help clear up any questions as to it's workings.

[Silverface]

"Some time ago" the PW parts-only prices were first raised, then "inventory depleted" - to all but one installer. This was not Gene's doing from what I have been told, but his former musical, business, and...errr...well "partner". It wasn't that production stopped - but for a while only Gene and Music One HAD parts.

That's also about the time the patent expired and Bill Bores began making copies. It took a while to get things running smoothly but he seems to make nice parts at a fraction of the cost.

That being said, many players still want Gene to personally work on their guitars - there's a certain "mojo" to that.

Then to make it even MORE interesting, the guy who started the whole "production" process with shoulder-strap benders (with Gene's blessing"), Dave Evans, is reissuing the original Pullstring. Not all the details are finalized yet, but it's possible there could be a limited run or originals OR a full-scale production type. Gene's in full support of Dave, as Dave was classy enough to flat stop (in the middle of some guitars of his own) making benders when Gene told him he was going to start doing them himself.

That's an absolute class act thing to do - and it shows someone who "gets it" - understands the history, the emotions, and the whole Gene/Clarence vibe. I'm not sure others who started making them after the patent expired took those things into consideration or even contacted Gene - as far as I know, they just saw an opening and jumped on it. I guess you can't fault them for a whole 60's/70's "vibe" thing they were not aware of, but it is a sore subject with some folks (Of course, so is the Stringbender parts pricing to others!)

I sure hope when Dave re-releases the "Pullstring" (which was also the name Gene originally used for a bit before changing it to Stringbender) anyone using that name or parts of the design shows him some of the same courtesy he showed Gene...there are plenty of different designs and names to go around without having them overlap and confuse things (I don't even know if there are any overlaps, but it'd be nice if there weren't).

Sidebar - there was ONE unit Gene had that I don't know if he ever sold or not - it was a double-bender nicknamed the "joystick", where the B and G strings BOTH were bent from the same upper strap peg. Apparently, it was determined to be far too costly and complicated - but I sure would like to SEE that just for fun! If anyone knows where it is (I seem to recall Meridian, when she and Gene were still together, telling me it was gone) please shoot me a note - I'd like to even just see pictures of it! Not to have anyone try to copy it - I'm slowly trying to work on a compilation of bender design pics (so if you have anything else unique, please send it on). I'm thinking of taking my unused website and turning it into a "bender museum"...

[hip hop chip sh]

My head is starting to hurt.

[telesavant]

Originally Posted by Silverface

"Some time ago" the PW parts-only prices were first raised, then "inventory depleted" - to all but one installer. This was not Gene's doing from what I have been told, but his former musical, business, and...errr...well "partner". It wasn't that production stopped - but for a while only Gene and Music One HAD parts.

That's also about the time the patent expired and Bill Bores began making copies. It took a while to get things running smoothly but he seems to make nice parts at a fraction of the cost.

That being said, many players still want Gene to personally work on their guitars - there's a certain "mojo" to that.

Then to make it even MORE interesting, the guy who started the whole "production" process with shoulder-strap benders (with Gene's blessing"), Dave Evans, is reissuing the original Pullstring. Not all the details are finalized yet, but it's possible there could be a limited run or originals OR a full-scale production type. Gene's in full support of Dave, as Dave was classy enough to flat stop (in the middle of some guitars of his own) making benders when Gene told him he was going to start doing them himself.

That's an absolute class act thing to do - and it shows someone who "gets it" - understands the history, the emotions, and the whole Gene/Clarence vibe. I'm not sure others who started making them after the patent expired took those things into consideration or even contacted Gene - as far as I know, they just saw an opening and jumped on it. I guess you can't fault them for a whole 60's/70's "vibe" thing they were not aware of, but it is a sore subject with some folks (Of course, so is the Stringbender parts pricing to others!)

I sure hope when Dave re-releases the "Pullstring" (which was also the name Gene originally used for a bit before changing it to Stringbender) anyone using that name or parts of the design shows him some of the same courtesy he showed Gene...there are plenty of different designs and names to go around without having them overlap and confuse things (I don't even know if there are any overlaps, but it'd be nice if there weren't).

Sidebar - there was ONE unit Gene had that I don't know if he ever sold or not - it was a double-bender nicknamed the "joystick", where the B and G strings BOTH were bent from the same upper strap peg. Apparently, it was determined to be far too costly and complicated - but I sure would like to SEE that just for fun! If anyone knows where it is (I seem to recall Meridian, when she and Gene were still together, telling me it was gone) please shoot me a note - I'd like to even just see pictures of it! Not to have anyone try to copy it - I'm slowly trying to work on a compilation of bender design pics (so if you have anything else unique, please send it on). I'm thinking of taking my unused website and turning it into a "bender museum"...

Giving this thread a cursory glance, I can only surmise that you are addressing my device, and any "overlaps" as you call them, or infringements as what I'd call them. I can assure you that there WERE patent infringements on Gene's device, but NOT by me. Additionally, my patent was worded, by my insistance, to specifically leave out the word "Stringbender" when compiling it, and describing the device, as I knew that "Stringbender" was, and is a trademark of Gene's,... "Pullstring" was not. With that said... Bowden's, and Borisoff's devices are actually called STRING BENDERS in their patents, but I'm sure there was NO malice intended.

I can also tell you that not only did I CITE Gene Parsons, Dave Borisiff, and Joe Glaser in my patent....also I contacted them all, and all are well aware of my device. Meridian Green actually wished me good luck, and told me.........."I'd done nothing but GOOD THINGS for benders".

If you "don't even know", if there were any "overlaps", or "not sure" Gene et al were contacted....you shouldn't broach the issue.

My device is called a "SLINGSHOT"..... but most everyone that orders one or discusses it, OR ANY OTHER BENDER refers to it as a....bender, B bender, stringbender, pullstring, puller, stringpuller... or my favorite.....Texas Cheater. I have used some of these terms, as well. This is because of WHAT IT DOES....pulls, or bends a string. In this forum, people are also very loose with the trademarked name held by Gene, when referencing a variety of devices. We've probably all called every device made.... a stringbender at on time or another, it's part of the lexicon.

I have also been in contact with Dave Evans about the availibility of his devices, and closed with my company name..."PULLSTRING SYSTEMS" (a name I have used for 12 years with no adverse affects), so he too, is aware of the moniker I am using, and kindly responded with no mention of an issue. I would have NO problem discussing "infringements" if any, he would have an issue with.

So.......... although I didn't have to....everyone pertinent was contacted, NO patent infringements, NO trademark infringements, recieved Meridian Green's blessing, and.... will be ABSOLUTELY, HAPPY to discuss any legitimate issues as my usage of "Pullstring systems" as a company name with Dave Evans anytime, and would consider ceasing usage, OUT OF RESPECT for the history of the device, not legal infringement.......How's that for a "Class Act?"

[Silverface]

Hey Paul!

Just a quick note as I'm late for an appointment, but I wasn't alluding to you at all! I didn't even know you were using "Pullstring" in the name (I recalled seeing it somewhere on a bender, but not exactly where), - I remembered "Slingshot" as the name in the info you sent me. I also know you contacted everyone in the "small circle" early on, which was great, and know the kind of guy you are from past conversations on the web. Yes, "class act" is EXACTLY what I would call you.

No worries...definitely nothing aimed at you, and personally I think there's plenty of room for the differing types of mechanisms...and someday I STILL want one of yours, which to me is the absolute Ferrari of bolt-on units!
Take care,
Jim

[telesavant]

WHEW!!!! Thanks for the reply Jim!!
Pauly

[Dogbear]

My head is starting to hurt.

Darren, I understand, many in this bender forum tend to be very passionate about their instruments. PM Brian F (Brian Friend) as he has installed P/W benders for musicians in the UK before so he is familiar with your dilemma. He does quality work, is reasonable, and has installed benders for many on this and the Clarence White Forum (CFW). He has many satisfied customers including me. If a reasonable quality P/W bender is your objective, you can't miss with Brian.

[Silverface]

Like Dogbear said, if you wanted a good deal on a shoulder-strap actuated bender (based on the original Parsons-White prototype, then the Evans Pullstring and Parsons-White production models) installed in your own guitar, I'd contact Brian, who could either put a PW-type or a Hipshot-manufactured Parsons-Green in it; if you wanted a bolt-on that's the next closest thing I'd contact Paul (Telesavant) about his Slingshot system, which appears to what a PW or PG does WITHOUT any routing; and if you wanted a lower-cost but still effective shoulder-strap system (again with no routing)I'd go with the Higgins.

In the shoulder-strap actuated systems, those (to the best of my knowledge) are the best "bang-for-the-buck.

If you want a different physical action, then you go with a Hipshot, Timara, Palm Pedals, EZ Benders, etc.

At the top of the heap are the Parsons-installed PW, the Glaser (and Shelton and similar "neck plate lever" systems that still require extensive...but hidden...routing and drilling), and soon the original Evans Pullstring.

Hope that "groups" them up a little more clearly.

[hip hop chip sh]

I think I've narrowed this down a bit. Defintitely want either the Parsons/Green or the Parsons White B-bender and I have found two places that will install them.

For other peoples reference the installers I've found are Moon Guitars and Charlies, both mentioned above. Moon cannot supply parts but can install. Charlie can install although as yet I am unclear what b bender parts he can supply.

BrianF has been in contact and is very helpful.

The only thing is now, I'm tempted by B and G benders and long throw benders, sigh.

Will keep you informed.

[BrianF]

I think Hip Hop has the leads he needs now...if not check back with us... Good Luck!!! (and lets see some pix when you get it done )

[bargoedboy]

approx 11 years ago i tried everywhere in uk to buy a b bender , i travelled from dorset up to s****horpe to buy a "fender" tele with factory fitted Bbender ! ( a tokaii with new sticker on headstock and cheaply made homemade bender which did not work ) a round trip of 600 miles , also another 400 mile roundtrip up in midlands for another with homemade bodge job done . eventually i contacted PW for info on a installer in uk , and i was told chandlers in london who quoted me approx £550 which i thought for a simple device was quite a lot to pay , so i knocked my own up , i found a picture of one and made it out of alloy first constantly adjusting and trimming it till i got it right then made it out of stainless steel where it has worked perfect for years, never broken a string or lost its tuning . i would still love to have a tele done with a pW original one but to me cost is prohibitive so will just have to dream .anyone else make their own one offs ?