cheap b & g bender for noob (hipshot/timara/higgins)

[kp8]

I am thinking to get bendy this summer. I am interested in a bender on the cheap and would be thrilled to get B & G bending and possibly a drop for E and/or A.

I know that lots of folks here seem to have the hipshot but i find hipshots offerings a bit hard to navigate. Additionally there is some wild disparity in prices. I am guessing the item i am describing is the Hipshot B-Bender with G-A Palm Lever? I see this for 8 billion dollars on hipshot's site but looking at Guitar Parts Resource i see part # 10300C for $189.79 so i guess that it is it? (where is a good place to buy a hipshot?) Looks like Stew-Mac only has the basic Hipshot B-bendah but not the fancy pants one. The Fancy pants one looks like it has a E-D detuna on it too.... so that looks like a lot of bending for 2 bills. BUT.... i heard that the one to get is this one in Aluminum. For the life of me i don't see any Hipshots in Aluminum.

Additionally i am very curious about Higgins Peg Bender, which i hear about but have never seen and can't find for sale any ol' place.

and ... last question i promise (that's a lie) i am also interested in this Timara Bender and the Timara String Drop (www.timarastringbenders.com) and wonder if folks have any recs on that.

my dream is a long throw smooth & slow bender.... i know a real PW bender is the way to go for that but to get my feet wet i was wondering about the Hipshot, Higgins, and Timara stuff and any other alternatives folks might recommend for mega bending on the cheap.

-kp--

ps. I am also intrigued by Telesavant's Bender doohicky...

[bender-freak]

well, for a first timer especially, i can't see how you can go wrong with the Hipshot....i have a P/G bender amer. stand. that i added a Hipshot to years ago; now have B, G and A string benders on that guitar...also have a Shelton B bender installed in an amer. stnd. silver sparkle tele...for my applications and style the Hipshot works best hands down...i have not tried the Timara system, ya would need to "talk" to Tim Wallis about that one; he's a member here and a fantastic bender player....i have used but don't currently have anything set up with Bigsby Palm Pedals...i do have but not mounted on anything several of the Epiphone EZ benders....

let me try to explain why i prefer the Hipshot above other sytems...#1 is the price (a fourth of the cost of an internal installation) and the fact they can be self installed in minutes as opposed to sending your guitar off and waiting and waiting and waiting for it to come home; been there and will never again...just my opinion....others here will disagree....

another plus in my opinion, is if you don't find bending is what you want to do, you have done no mutilation to your guitar with the Hipshot...all other multi-bend systems require routing/drilling and it can't be "un-done"..

one last + and i'll hush....with the Hipshot i find i can for example do a "raise" on the B and at the SAME time do a "lower" on the G string...i don't think that can be done with the Timara or any of the "strap" activated systems, but i could be wrong....

when i grab a "bender" guitar it always one of my Hipshot rigs....

good luck on the search and welcome to the insane world of bending....

[lmcgillet]

That's right. Hipshots are fine items, and the hip lever - even if short throwing - can easily be played very controlled and smooth. The palm levers are a little more difficult to play smooth (but maybe only for me). Go and see (or mail) Ed at http://stores.ebay.de/Classic-Clones-Amplification for good prices. I did some trades with him, and he is a reliable and kind guy.

Hipshots can be installed on many hardbody guitars, but I don't think they are to be combined with whammies (didn't try this yet). They don't work too well on acoustics (thin wood of the body is too elastic, and bends have effects on the unbent strings).

The Higgins Peg bender is a VERY cool bender. Even if extremely short throwing, it can give you the feeling of a much longer throwing bender when you play around with the position of the guitar on the strap while you are playing (as you can change the "admission", or better: the way you have to go pushing down the neck for a full bend). One may have to get used to it's looks - some people may think it's home-made and it stylistically harmonizes very well with washtub basses and skiffle music. They are wrong - it's an ingenious and exceptionally well built precision machine! You can find it at the inventor's website here: http://www.bradivarius.com/

The Higgins can be installed on virtually every guitar with a peghead (not on a stick, ok). Acoustics: No problem. It even works well with whammies, but if you have a free-floating whammy it's a good idea to block the whammy's up-bending ability (with a little tension towards the down-bending - does anyone understand what I mean???? ;) ) to avoid detuning effects on the unbent strings while using the bender.

See my post here http://www.tdpri.com/forum/b-bender-...ml#post1282007
to avoid some mistakes I made when I installed it the first time.

Both of the above systems can be combined with each other.

Timara is also a very good bender. It meets my preference for playing sitting on a bar stool and is short throwing. It's not made for parallel or diametral bends, but if you have arms like Popeye or you are sort of a contortionist you will be able to abuse it to produce these bends. The Timara is the easiest system to install (on a Tele) of those mentioned in this post.

Timaras are made for Telecasters, but will work on many other guitars, if you are willing to ruin the look-and-feel of them.

The Timara can theoretically be combined with the Higgins bender. The Timara is dedicated to bending B and G, so there are E, A, D and e left. I have no doubt the Higgins will work well for the e string, but don't know if any of the wound strings may cause problems with fixation (the strings are fixed by an allen screw attached to the working part of the bender). Brad Higgins recommends not to use heavier gauges than 14'' for the B-string, btw.

Hope this helps a little.

Greetings -
Luther

[bender-freak]

Originally Posted by lmcgillet

That's right. Hipshots are fine items, and the hip lever - even if short throwing - can easily be played very controlled and smooth. The palm levers are a little more difficult to play smooth (but maybe only for me). Go and see (or mail) Ed at http://stores.ebay.de/Classic-Clones-Amplification for good prices. I did some trades with him, and he is a reliable and kind guy.

Hipshots can be installed on many hardbody guitars, but I don't think they are to be combined with whammies (didn't try this yet). They don't work too well on acoustics (thin wood of the body is too elastic, and bends have effects on the unbent strings).

The Higgins Peg bender is a VERY cool bender. Even if extremely short throwing, it can give you the feeling of a much longer throwing bender when you play around with the position of the guitar on the strap while you are playing (as you can change the "admission", or better: the way you have to go pushing down the neck for a full bend). One may have to get used to it's looks - some people may think it's home-made and it stylistically harmonizes very well with washtub basses and skiffle music. They are wrong - it's an ingenious and exceptionally well built precision machine! You can find it at the inventor's website here: http://www.bradivarius.com/

The Higgins can be installed on virtually every guitar with a peghead (not on a stick, ok). Acoustics: No problem. It even works well with whammies, but if you have a free-floating whammy it's a good idea to block the whammy's up-bending ability (with a little tension towards the down-bending - does anyone understand what I mean???? ;) ) to avoid detuning effects on the unbent strings while using the bender.

See my post here http://www.tdpri.com/forum/b-bender-...ml#post1282007
to avoid some mistakes I made when I installed it the first time.

Both of the above systems can be combined with each other.

Timara is also a very good bender. It meets my preference for playing sitting on a bar stool and is short throwing. It's not made for parallel or diametral bends, but if you have arms like Popeye or you are sort of a contortionist you will be able to abuse it to produce these bends. The Timara is the easiest system to install (on a Tele) of those mentioned in this post.

Timaras are made for Telecasters, but will work on many other guitars, if you are willing to ruin the look-and-feel of them.

The Timara can theoretically be combined with the Higgins bender. The Timara is dedicated to bending B and G, so there are E, A, D and e left. I have no doubt the Higgins will work well for the e string, but don't know if any of the wound strings may cause problems with fixation (the strings are fixed by an allen screw attached to the working part of the bender). Brad Higgins recommends not to use heavier gauges than 14'' for the B-string, btw.

Hope this helps a little.

Greetings -
Luther

but the Hipshot CAN easily be used with a whammy system; i have used one with great results with a Washburn Wonder Bar tremolo; easily installed on a guitar with a Kahler tremolo...just a dremel tool and a few minutes and yer there....friend of mine here in Springfield, Mo installs B and G benders on tremolo equipped guitars such as Strats quite regulary and has for years...i like his benders quite well, but for the before mentioned reasons i sometimes like to "raise" one string while "lowering" the other...the Hipshot is my weapon of choice every time, and due to health problems i do have to play sitting down and the lever poses no problems for me.....been a Hipshot user for 20+ yrs, have a boxfull of them and parts; i snag one every time i seen one pop up on the cheap.....again, it's all a matter of personal preference.......again, just relating my experience with them, not trying to start a pro/con........

[jmiles]

"The palm levers are a little more difficult to play smooth (but maybe only for me)."
I'm strictly a fingerpicker. I put the G palm lever at at about a 45 degree angle . Sorta pointin' at my left shoulder, and I play it with my wrist. I can rest/position my right hand on it that way. If you adjust the levers tension screw right, you can swivel it easily out of the way for palm-blocking, and quickly back into position. I've been playin' mine since the Guitar Player review. That's gotta be around 25 years. For me, it's seamless and fast.

[lmcgillet]

Thank you, Bender-Freak and Jmiles for the input!

Wouldn't have thought Hipshots were whammy-compatible. Also the string tension vs floating whammy springs issue should be no problem this way... (sorry, don't want to hijack this thread for my own benefit)

As for my inability to engage the palm lever as smooth as the hip lever, blame it on my less than mediocre artistry. I afforded my first bender (a Hipshot) only a year ago or so. I kind of manage the fast bends with the palm lever; the more difficult part for me are the slow and smooth bends.

Greetings -
Luther

[bender-freak]

must admit when i got my first Hipshot multibender back in the 80's i had some trouble with the G lever being too long and in the way and with it moving around and never being where i wanted it to be to activate the G bender...quickly discovered that if i cut it shorter with the end reaching just behind the saddles and running it paralell/same direction as the neck, and cinching it down as tight as possible, it was much easier for me to use...even with the length of the palm lever shortened there is no problem "activating" the bender and it is not in the way of right hand picking/muting techniques at all.....i prefer for my levers not to move in any way once i have them "pointed" the angle i want them.....

[hockey_head]

don't have a bender but can vouch for the timara string drop, use it on me treble e for detuning to d for slide pickin. simple and effective and other detuners won't fit there.

[jmiles]

I don't have the problem of the lever moving around. I put the lever where I want it, and tighten the pivot screw quite tightly. It will then pivot out of the way easily, because that's the rotation of the screw to loosen it. When the lever is pivoted back into place, the screw naturally tightens back up to it's preset position, and stops the lever in the right spot.
As a fingerpickin' only guy, my technique is undoubtedly a bit different. When I play my Strat, I also put the whammy bar under my wrist. Don't have to stop playing for even an instant to reach for the bar. Seamless.

[Brick]

The only problem I have with the Hipshot is that I quickly saw the potential of having three pedals and four knee levers on a guitar.

Seriously,the Hipshot is a fine piece of hardware that can be added to. I'd start simple and add more gizmos as I went along.

I have had a drop D bass tuner for ten years, and while I don't use it too often, it is always right in tune when I do.

[jmiles]

Brick, "the potential of having three pedals and four knee levers on a guitar."
Yup! Got me five of those type bender guitars here. They're fun!

[kp8]

I am getting a Timara string drop to try. I just purchased one.

Lots of great info on this thread. Now i want a hipshot for B/G/maybe more bending. My understanding is that you can buy the B bender and add more levels later for bending no? also... in my googling around i keep seeing mention of Aluminum hipshots... i don't see them for sale.

Finally... anyone know a good place to buy a hipshot in the US. The Ebay site looks great, but the with the dollar in the crapp_er that might not be the best price.

Where did you all get your hipshots? Can you get one stock with the B-bender, G lever, and drop D?

cheers,

kevin

[jmiles]

If you buy from Hipshot, you can get whatever you want. Mine has a G and a B bender, plus toggles on both E's and on the A. Flip the toggles for bottleneck G tuning. Gotta put the Higgin's Pegbender on the high E one of these days.

[bender-freak]

Originally Posted by kp8

I am getting a Timara string drop to try. I just purchased one.

Lots of great info on this thread. Now i want a hipshot for B/G/maybe more bending. My understanding is that you can buy the B bender and add more levels later for bending no? also... in my googling around i keep seeing mention of Aluminum hipshots... i don't see them for sale.

Finally... anyone know a good place to buy a hipshot in the US. The Ebay site looks great, but the with the dollar in the crapp_er that might not be the best price.

Where did you all get your hipshots? Can you get one stock with the B-bender, G lever, and drop D?

cheers,

kevin

i got aproxx. 1982 at a music shop here in Springfield that is no longer there..it was the fully loaded version; B bender, G bender, detuners on small E, A and big E strings...still have it, thinkl i gave right at $100 for it new; 2 1/2 times that to buy one now ....all the others i've either picked up from people that didn't want them, didn't want to take the time to learn bending, found one at a yard sale for $10, have a couple that were just given to me outright, just recently got a B bender Hipshot with Detuner on the big E from Evil-Bay for $45 cause the guy didn't have the hip lever....the days of picking them up for little or nothing are just about over with...now, i AM talking the add-on tailpiece Hipshot benders, not the internal units...the only internal installs i have are a P/G amer stand and a Shelton...

as already said, you can order directly from hipshot and get pretty much what ever configuration you may want....if you are a "Bay" cruiser, they can be found cheaper SOMEtimes, but, as i said above, the "bargains" are few and far between....mostly dealers on the "Bay" now...

[lmcgillet]

I think when people talk about an "aluminium Hipshot" they mean the Hipshot aluminium version of the Parsons/Green bender as seen here:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Hipshot-Parsons-G...QQcmdZViewItem

Rumours say it's a great item, but it needs the Tele body to get modified the same way as if to install an original P/G.

As far as I know there are no hip-shooting Hipshots (the hip and palm lever type) made of aluminium. In fact there is no need for them (in my opinion), as the standard Hipshot levers do a great job and don't add significant weight to your guitar. BTW I think the standard Hipshot's "working" parts ARE made of aluminium (not the hip and palm levers, axis and base plate, which are made of steel, but the things you attach the strings to), or am I wrong?

Greetings -
Luther

[kp8]

Lots of great info here. Thanks for all the help. I am very interested in the Hipshot and I will call and see... I just missed a used one on the GearPage. I wish i could get one on the cheap. I ordered the string drop and will try that and look for a hipshot. Maybe down the road look at a getting a tele set up telesavant's design, which is very slick indeed.

[MartinH]

Hey there, the best you can do its to get TimaraBenders, they stay extremely in tune and works real good ,here i leave a link where you can take a listen to some recording with Timara StringBenders & StringDrop.
see ya
Martin
http://www.myspace.com/martinharispe

[Silverface]

I've had Hipshots, Palm Pedals, Higgins, Parsons-Whites (long and short throw) and several one-off custom bender based on various cloned or unique designs.

Of the lower-priced units only the Higgins has the stability and control of my PW's. Palm Pedals were horrid because of the complete change needed in right hand position and associated limitations; the Hipshot is OK, but a "training wheels" bender to me - it's not that stable, consistent, and is an "on-off" switch type bender - slow, smooth legato bends are not easy, and it also forces some odd body positions. The Higgins, when you find the "sweet spot" of the strap attachment point for the cable, has a short but very smooth and linear pull, and has enough tension you don't accidentally bend. It's very easy to install, set up, adjust and play with without affecting your normal playing technique at all - ALL the other lower-priced units affect hand or arm positioning (I'm including the Hipshot in that as most get it with at least one palm lever that I used once and then swung it the heck out of my way.

The Timara I wouldn't even want to try. The oddball (IMO) arm-position method of bending again forces a complete change in how you normally play. I've seen several similar types come and go over 35+ years of playing various string bending devices. I'll try to dig up pics of some of the more bizarre ones I've had over the years.

The whole idea originally (when Clarence White was brainstorming with Gene Parsons) was a bender that would allow him to play like normal, but *add* bending to the repertoire.

The PW, Glaser, Fender (or Parsons Green, distributed by Hipshot), Shelton, a few others based on similar designs and the original production bender, the Evans Pullstring (going back into production!), all accomplish that goal as does the Higgins. The ones that eliminate palm muting, force arm contortions, or just lack stability miss the boat IMO.

[kp8]

gosh.... an on-off discreet bender is not at all what i want. The main goal is a slow, smooth steady bend. I thought that the hipshot was good at this. hmm... if not, i better rethink this.

[Silverface]

There ARE players who can pull it off with a Hipshot, but it takes a lot of work and is very unnatural, as you don't have weight/gravity working with you to control the motion - it's ALL up to you in a forward/backwards push/pull of the neck. I found it extremely difficult to get the slow Clarence-style bends pushing forward with my fretting hand (and shoving my hip out didn't work at all), and I lost all smoothness of movement with that hand.

With the shoulder-strap types, the whole motion is balance with either spring and/or string (in the case of the Higgins) tension and gravity, and the meat at the base of your thumb is kind of the "control point"...ad it just takes a light touch if you're set correctly, which gives you the slow control OR speed when you need it. That's how Clarence and Bob Warford pull off all the odd timing and mix of slow bends with pulloffs and hammer-ons; your left hand isn't affected by the bender and you have pinpoint control over the bend - it's very linear. Evans' designs do the same thing. The Glaser type is more of a quick/snap bender, although I've heard a few players use them for slower stuff...most Glaser players, though, seem to be more of the Nashville speed-picking variety and the quick on-off works well for them.

That's the thing with the Hipshot - Will Ray is a great guy and plays the heck out of one - but if you listen closely almost every one of his bends is a lightning-fast move.

All the different benders are functional- but in different ways and for different styles. I just watched several Timara videos to really study it again, and it looks like another one more suited for quick moves - again, the body parts used to control the motion just aren't suited for lazy, legato, "drifting" bends.

[J. Hayes]

My main guitar is a Tele with a P/W bender and my 2nd favorite guitar is a Tele with a P/G bender. All that said I strongly disagree with most everything Silverface said. The HipShot bender is not in any way an "on/off" bender. Slow legatto bends can be done as well with a H/S as any P/W bender there is. Also Bigsby Palm Pedals are great units just check out the legendary Al Bruno and Nokie Edwards as well as Peter Stroud with Sheryl Crow's band. Personally I think they're the most "expressive" of any bender out there with the HipShot coming in second. With a P/W or P/G bender you have to more or less hang your thumb over the top to use it. Try a P/W with a bar chord and see what happens. With a H/S you can use any left hand positioning you want even the thumb behind the neck style that classical guitarists use. Also with a H/S you can play sitting down with no strap required and still use it, try that with a P/W. Also a HipShot is great for adding pedal steel things to your slide guitar work if you're into that. The BPP is also great for that. The only thing I don't like about the HipShot is the flip lever for lowering your 6th string. I prefer the unit they make that goes on the headstock or a Keith/Scruggs banjo style tuner with pre-sets. Will Ray of Hellecaster fame uses the HipShot exclusively and could have any bender out there if he wanted but he chose the H/S, probably for it's ease of operation and the fact that he's a great slide player as well........JH in Va.

[bender-freak]

everything J. Hayes says....i am a Hipshot fan, and will be from now on....i have tried all the others with the exception of the Higgins....i don't quite understand the concept of "on/off" bender....

[kp8]

Originally Posted by bender-freak

i don't quite understand the concept of "on/off" bender....

I think he is just saying that the transit