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Stripping Polyester

Bob Rogers
April 21st, 2003, 10:50 AM
I've posted this over at reranch, but I was hoping that someone over here might have an idea. I've been trying to strip a black Classic 60's RI Fender Strat. According to Fender it has a polyester finish. (I've been able to strip their polyurethane finishes before.) I've tried Zip-Strip, Bondo Aircraft Finish Remover, Sherwin-Williams Savoran. They all take off a clear top coat but do not even soften the black color coat. Still hard as nails. I really don't want to go with a heat gun. Too many bad memories of stripping cabinets.

Any other ideas? I'm ready to give up and coat over the black.

openbar
April 21st, 2003, 09:36 PM
Been down the same road. Only way to get it off is by a professional who has all the dipping and whatnot...or a belt sander. That stuff is basically a plastic version of mumification, kinda like powder coating.

Scotland
April 22nd, 2003, 04:12 PM
My old guitar tech used to use an acid bath, can't remember the type of acid he used but it stripped it totally in around 10-15 minutes. Goodness knows what it does to the wood though.

tc
April 22nd, 2003, 11:15 PM
I stripped a finish off an old guitar once with
some stuff I got from home depot. The finish
never melted, it just sort of flaked away. slowly.
underneath was a real nice maple body.
If you are not going to do it in natural, why
bother? Even so, it's probably not worth the
effort and exposure to nasty chemicals that might
shorten your lifespan.
If you gotta refinish, just paint over what you got.

chuckamok63
April 26th, 2007, 04:06 AM
sand it to get a grip, bondo to get rid of the holes/gaps/dings, and paint over it. Otherwise you'll have to sand it all!

Sarge
April 26th, 2007, 08:58 AM
I stripped Poly once, but had to get her drunk first! :lol:

Ronkirn
April 26th, 2007, 09:00 AM
Removing that stuff is easy... first ya get a small Thermo-Nuclear device.

Ron Kirn

charlie chitlin
April 26th, 2007, 09:03 AM
You might need to rethink your aversion to the heat gun.
You like the heat gun...
The heat gun is your friend...
The heat gun's your daddy..............

rjhalsey
April 26th, 2007, 09:04 AM
Been down the same road. Only way to get it off is by a professional who has all the dipping and whatnot...or a belt sander. That stuff is basically a plastic version of mumification, kinda like powder coating.

1500watt heat gun from Harbor Freight, a scraper and finally a orbital sander and you will have it all off in a couple hours. Wear eye protection because the poly explodes and flies across the room when it is heated. Also, do not hold the heat gun in one place for too long because you will burn the body. I hope this helps.

mellecaster
April 26th, 2007, 09:26 AM
I've posted this over at reranch, but I was hoping that someone over here might have an idea. I've been trying to strip a black Classic 60's RI Fender Strat. According to Fender it has a polyester finish. (I've been able to strip their polyurethane finishes before.) I've tried Zip-Strip, Bondo Aircraft Finish Remover, Sherwin-Williams Savoran. They all take off a clear top coat but do not even soften the black color coat. Still hard as nails. I really don't want to go with a heat gun. Too many bad memories of stripping cabinets.

Any other ideas? I'm ready to give up and coat over the black.

The only one I've ever had any results with that were Positive....was Klean-strip Aircraft Remover....and it will do it...but it's some work involved.

magicguitar
April 26th, 2007, 09:40 AM
Really RETHINK the heat gun! I've tried many of the commercial finish strippers and tried a heat gun after the strippers failed to work. I will not use anything else. Just stripped a Tele yesterday... heat and scrape and done in about an hour or so.

daddyopapa
April 26th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Heat gun.

morroben
April 26th, 2007, 10:58 AM
Throw dollar bills at it.

Vegasrock
April 26th, 2007, 11:03 AM
I always use a heat gun when stripping poly-anything.

fezz parka
April 26th, 2007, 11:07 AM
I've spent the last three days stripping this with Air Craft Remover:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/DSCN0096.JPG


Should have got a heat gun.http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/images/smilies/confused8.gif

Lostheart
April 26th, 2007, 11:45 AM
I always use a heat gun when stripping poly-anything.

Hey Vegas!
Great to see folks from the The Guitar Refinishing and Restoration board hanging out here as well!
Don't wanna hijack this thread, but...help me understand here...won't a heatgun scorch the wood real easy?!?
Is Polyurethan (basecoat of a 52 AV RI) easier to strip with chemicals than Polyester?

Vegasrock
April 26th, 2007, 11:52 AM
Hey Vegas!
Great to see folks from the The Guitar Refinishing and Restoration board hanging out here as well!
Don't wanna hijack this thread, but...help me understand here...won't a heatgun scorch the wood real easy?!?
Is Polyurethan (basecoat of a 52 AV RI) easier to strip with chemicals than Polyester?


Only if you get too close. A method that works really good for me is to clamp the body down and then hold your heat gun in one hand and a scraper in the other. Keep the heat gun about 6-8 inches away from the body until you see the finish start to bubble a little. Start scraping the finish off. it works best if you keep the heat on it constantly and just scrape with the other hand. Also make sure you keep the heat gun moving and not keep it in just one spot.

Mark Davis
April 26th, 2007, 01:30 PM
The best thing to do is just use some 400 grit over the original finish to rough it up and paint right over it. This way no sealer no filler just paint the color coats and clear and your done.

Ronkirn
April 26th, 2007, 05:50 PM
just use some 400 grit over the original finish to rough it up and paint right over it.


I was wondering if anyone would come up with the Original Fender solution, . . . Ummm. . .. Leo Fender solution...

Ron Kirn

gtech
April 26th, 2007, 05:56 PM
I started to use the chemicals on a body once, and didn't like the mess and the work involed.

I finished with a heat gun, and it took me less time to do more with it...

I used the method as explained by Vegas.

Gilles

Mark Davis
April 26th, 2007, 08:05 PM
It helps to paint on the remover thick and put it outside in a garbage bag for 24 hours. That seems to help on the tough ones where nothing else will work on.

rjhalsey
April 26th, 2007, 11:01 PM
The best thing to do is just use some 400 grit over the original finish to rough it up and paint right over it. This way no sealer no filler just paint the color coats and clear and your done.

I think the idea is to get the tone robbing poly off.

Ronkirn
April 26th, 2007, 11:31 PM
I think the idea is to get the tone robbing poly off.


Oooooo Just Ooooooo...

Ron Kirn

fezz parka
April 27th, 2007, 10:52 AM
Three days and a quart of Air Craft stripper to go from this:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/DSCN0096.JPG

To this:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/DSCN0143.JPG

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/images/smilies/confused8.gif

Jack Wells
April 27th, 2007, 11:12 AM
Was it worth it? It sure seem like a waste of time and effort to me. You didn't find a pretty body under that gold did you? They paint guitars a solid color for a reason.

fezz parka
April 27th, 2007, 11:15 AM
I just wanted to get the crud off. I was really hoping that it would improve the body's tone a bit. Since I'm kinda semi-retired I've got nothin' but time on my hands.

It's going to get painted pink.:grin:

Mark Davis
April 27th, 2007, 11:16 AM
I think the idea is to get the tone robbing poly off.


Hahahah you need to watch mythbusters.

Jack Wells
April 27th, 2007, 11:19 AM
Right on Mark Davis ............ right on .....http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/jwells393/Animations/ThumbsUp.gif

Ronkirn
April 27th, 2007, 12:47 PM
If ya wanna have a nice fresh hunk of wood to work with, I can understand, but don't get caught up in the poly vs. nitro (I think I just heard Fuzzy chuckle) tone quest. Poly, nitro, or automotive body undercoat, is not going to make a significant difference. (My opinion, no need to offer a counter, go start your own thread).

As Jack said, they paint guitars a solid color for a reason, so don't be surprised at what you find. The poly makes a great undercoat... use it. Fender has been squirtin’ catalyzed undercoats from the moment they discovered ‘em, somewhere around the mid 50’s. That’s what Full-O-Plast was…


Ron Kirn

0le FUZZY
April 27th, 2007, 01:25 PM
... Chuckle Chuckle!

...Yew make the call!

Acrylic Enamel
Acrylic Lacquer
Acrylic Latex
Alkyd
Alkyd Enamel
Catalytic
Enamel
Lacquer
Oil Base
Oils (linseed, tung, etc)
Polyurethane
Shellac
Urethane Enamel
Vinyl Latex

...Then there iss this:

Part A
Resins: Polyester, Bayer Desmophen 650A/65
Polyester, Bayer Multron R221/75
Pigments: Titanium dioxide - imparts color
Yellow iron oxide - imparts color
Chrome oxide - imparts color
Carbazole violet - imparts color
Silica - flattening agent
Diatomaceous silica - flattening agent
Solvents: Methyl isoamyl ketone (MIAK) - viscosity and spray properties
Methoxypropanol acetate (PM Acetate) - viscosity and spray properties
Xylene - viscosity and spray properties
Aromatic 100 - spray properties

Part B
Resin: Hexamethylene diisocyanate (HDI), Bayer Desmodur N751
Solvent: N-Butyl acetate - viscosity and spray properties

2. Green 383, two-component coating:

Part A
Resins: Polyester, Bayer Desmophen 650A/65
Polyester, Bayer Multron R221/75
Pigments: Chrome oxide - imparts color
Cobalt – chrome green, - imparts color
Magnesium ferrite - imparts color
Carbazole dioxazine - imparts color
Silica - flattening agent
Diatomaceous silica - flattening agent
Solvents: Methyl isoamyl ketone (MIAK) - viscosity and spray properties
Methoxypropanol acetate (PM acetate) - viscosity and spray properties
Xylene - viscosity and spray properties
Aromatic 100 - spray properties

Part B
Resin: Hexamethylene diisocyanate (HDI), Bayer Desmodur N751
Solvent: N-Butyl acetate - viscosity and spray properties


...Boy sum of that junk jes gotta affect/effect the tone I reckon.

...Or--------------------jes play yer TELECASTER naked (both yew and it) and check out the tone.

...Jes burn it all off and check the tone HEE! HEE!!!

http://pulsarco.com/~fuzzy/realrelic1.jpg..http://pulsarco.com/~fuzzy/realrelic2.jpg



http://personalweb.sunset.net/~barron/sig.gif

(deranged internet-based alter ego, with my own lexicon and all.)

Please visit my page (http://personalweb.sunset.net/~barron/)

Jack Wells
April 27th, 2007, 02:44 PM
...Or--------------------jes play yer TELECASTER naked (both yew and it) and check out the tone.

Yikes .................. not a pretty thought .......... at least in my case.

fezz parka
April 27th, 2007, 02:48 PM
Fresh wood is what I'm after. It does ring better when I thunk on it with my knuckle now than when it had the finish on it.:grin:

Rufus
April 27th, 2007, 07:21 PM
If ya wanna have a nice fresh hunk of wood to work with, I can understand, but don't get caught up in the poly vs. nitro (I think I just heard Fuzzy chuckle) tone quest. Poly, nitro, or automotive body undercoat, is not going to make a significant difference. (My opinion, no need to offer a counter, go start your own thread).

As Jack said, they paint guitars a solid color for a reason, so don't be surprised at what you find. The poly makes a great undercoat... use it. Fender has been squirtin’ catalyzed undercoats from the moment they discovered ‘em, somewhere around the mid 50’s. That’s what Full-O-Plast was…


Ron Kirn

What if Bob just WANTS to strip it and repaint it?...same tone or ugly wood notwithstanding.

There are some good suggestions to save him some unnecessary labor, if he doesn't need to strip it, but from my reading of the original post...my guess is Bob WANTS to strip it. Could it be that he might ENJOY refinishing his guitar??

We get both ends of the spectrum...On one hand, some folks seem to be springloaded to opening the poly vs. superior nitro tone can of worms...others just condescendingly think its ignorant and naiive to want a guitar finished in other than poly, ...like you're a sucker if you fall for all that hype or you've been taken for a ride.

But the original post was about procedures to strip, not about which one is better, or if he should.

Personally, I like the FEEL of a real nitro guitar...don't give a damn if the wood is pretty or if it sounds exactly the same as when covered in 1/16" of poly...modern poly just FEELS too plastic-y. If I was deaf or blind, I'd still feel the same way...

Bob- I'd suggest the heat gun and some elbow grease... (thought about doing it myself, to a MIM Tele, just for grins)...playing it naked is your option :oops:

Lostheart
April 28th, 2007, 03:47 AM
A little while ago I read a bit on a website by a guitar refinisher who took poly off an old guitar that was 1/16th of an inch thick, refinished it in thin Nitro and the guitar was a pound lighter!

Arlo
April 28th, 2007, 07:48 AM
The only polyester that is easy to strip was from the 70's

https://www.dressthatman.com/pics2/suit/suit479.jpg

I knew a few girls that could get that stuff off in under 60 seconds. :shock:

Ignatius
April 28th, 2007, 10:16 AM
Yikes .................. not a pretty thought .......... at least in my case.

At least you wouldn't have any belt buckle rash on the back of the guitar.

On the other hand, I think I'd pass on any offer to play it.