New to recording.... Need a little beginning advice

Okay guys,

I have decided I should probably start recording my practices and jams, etc. I am on a Windows XP machine. I will only be recording guitar for now and possibly down the line, some vocals. I used to work with Cakewalk, way back many versions ago. I'm also familiar with Soundforge (and have a copy on the PC now). I play through a Mesa MK IV and Line 6 Spider III both have recording outs. I'd like to keep the budget pretty low.... maybe a few hundred bucks? Heck, I don't even know what's reasonable these days!

My goal is simply to begin really listening to what I play, maybe working up some simple demo stuff to pass around to other musicians for working up songs. Nothing CD quality or anything like that.... just halfway decent.

Having exactly no knowledge about what's out there today, what would be a decent starting package? Do I need another piece of hardware to get a decent sound quality over my sound card? What software is out there these days that I could do some simple multitrack stuff... but nothing massive, just a few tracks is probably going to be overwhelming at first anyways!

Thanks in advance!

Hey John. I just started using Reaper. It is a shareware program. I think it is 50 bucks to keep using past the 30 day trial. Actually you could keep using for free but I think once you try it you will gladly cough up the 50 bucks. I use Reaper and a small Alesis mixer. I have a SM58 and a SM78. I am also new to recording. I find Reaper very similar to Sonar in many ways. It also has great effects built in. Can't go wrong.

Dan

Some of the wise folks who frequent this forum recently recommended I get Cakewalk Sonar Home Studio 6xl, which can be had for $160. The basic version is $100 but the things you get with the xl version are worth it. Plus it uses Sonar Pro's engine, so it's top notch. See http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cakewalk-SONAR-Home-Studio-6-XL?sku=700935

Like you I'm just recording guitars and bass, with some drum loops. HS 6xl makes it really easy to do this, but it's also Midi capable with soft synths, so if you ever wanted to take the plunge, the sky's the limit.

To hook up my guitar and mics, I have a Lexicon Lambda mixer http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Lexicon-Lambda-USB-Audio-Interface?sku=245506 but there are cheaper ways to hook up your guitar. Line 6 TonePort is pretty good. The cheapest one is about $70. Comes with lots of amp sims and effects.

Personally I use AmpliTube Jimi Hendrix for amp sims and effects, about $200. It's great, but Line 6 really isn't bad.

Have you looked at anything like the Zoom H4 Digital 4-Track Recorder? (http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1901)


It seems fool proof, an important consideration for someone like me... :grin:

The cheapest way to hook up your guitar is with a microphone. I have done some experimenting with some plugins and my V-AMP. My amp with a mic sounded best after fiddling with mic placement. The modelers didn't sound bad though.

Keep in mind I am a newbie like you. I have only been messing around for about 2 weeks. It is lots of fun when you start getting the hang of whichever program you choose. Good luck.

Dan

My main DAW rig consists of:

M-Audio Delta 66 card w/breakout box
KRK studio monitors
Mackie 1624 board
Cool Edit Pro v2 software
Drums on Demand loops
Line6 guitarport for guitar and amp simulation

This is more than your $200 budget but the cool edit pro software is great and works with no latency. Simple to use, a lot simpler than a lot of other programs which have way too much going on and never get utilized! The trick is to get a simple system which will let you get your ideas on HD fast......inspiration can get stifled by technology real fast........

If you don't already have one, do yourself a favor and get a good soundcard straight away. Relying on whatever is on the motherboard is a crap-shoot at best. I think the ones from M-Audio are pretty good - you can find the Audiophile 2496 on eBay for under $90.

If you don't already have one, do yourself a favor and get a good soundcard straight away. Relying on whatever is on the motherboard is a crap-shoot at best. I think the ones from M-Audio are pretty good - you can find the Audiophile 2496 on eBay for under $90.

I think this is really good advice, plus the bulk of these audio interfaces will come with some light version of a bigger audio program. If it's not something you do right away you should at least consider it as a near term upgrade.

I'm a big Cakewalk Sonar fan but think it might be a bit over the top for what you want to do. Reaper would definitely be a great pick and for 50 bucks it's pretty darn impressive.

Avoid recording out's if you can- they rarely sound authentic.
I record an awful lot of guitars- I've moved away from using 57's in the last few years and tend to favour dual micing with a Sennheiser E609 or E906 mixed with a condenser, usually a U87.
A 87 is an expensive mic but there are a lot of condensers you could substitute to good effect. The Shure KSM32 is a good budgetish mic to try.
Make sure you align for phase.

Jim

Have you looked at anything like the Zoom H4 Digital 4-Track Recorder? (http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1901)


It seems fool proof, an important consideration for someone like me... :grin:

+1 , funny little thing and it sounds just fine!

Thanks everyone for the advice so far.

I think I'm seriously still confused... That Zoom H$ looks very interesting. I think ti would be very functional for other things... the USB direct record looks VERY interesting. I'm definitely gonna go check it out next time I'm at GC!

OR

I am also seriously considering a mixer to add to my mix. THis might be the way to go for home recording... and cheaper than the H$. However, I'm sure I'll still need to figure out which software to go with. Though Reaper looks like it might be just the trick there!

Then there's Mic's. I've got a pair of AKG's that might work for now, but they're over at the band practice house. So, maybe I'll grab them next time I'm over there and do a little 'spearmintin!

Have you looked at anything like the Zoom H4 Digital 4-Track Recorder? (http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1901)


It seems fool proof, an important consideration for someone like me... :grin:

how are the preamps on the H4? i've been looking at an interface upgrade, and this gadget's got all the features i'd need for that (plus much more), assuming the pre's are decent ....

I am also seriously considering a mixer to add to my mix. THis might be the way to go for home recording... and cheaper than the H$.

A mixer is handy, but most DO NOT get sound into the computer -- that's the job of an "audio interface" or soundcard. The ones that do output to the computer are often kinda sneaky: while you may have 4-8 channels on the mixer, they only send STEREO to the PC.

I suggest you take a look at stuff like this:

$150

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Edirol-UA4FX-USB-Audio-Capture-Interface?sku=241810

$240

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Edirol-UA25-USB-Bus-Powered-Stereo-Audio-Interface?sku=705371

Both of these boxes connect to the PC with a simple USB cable. The $150 box comes with Cakewalk's Sonar LE -- if you've used Cakewalk in the past, you'll be right at home. I bet the $240 box comes with software, too.

You can spend more, and you can also get started even cheaper. I've plugged a guitar directly into my soundcard's mic/line input, with an adapter. Doesn't sound so great, but it works.

Software-wise, you can often get the cheapest version of Cakewalk at Fry's for about $30-40 -- if you can wait, you can often get a rebate for the FULL price. I've done scads of recording with that stuff; it works amazingly well.

Have fun!

P.S. One reason I suggest looking at those two particular Edirol boxes -- they've already got the driver software ready, if you ever move to Windows VISTA...

Thanks everyone for the advice so far.

I think I'm seriously still confused... That Zoom H$ looks very interesting. I think ti would be very functional for other things... the USB direct record looks VERY interesting. I'm definitely gonna go check it out next time I'm at GC!

OR

I am also seriously considering a mixer to add to my mix. THis might be the way to go for home recording... and cheaper than the H$. However, I'm sure I'll still need to figure out which software to go with. Though Reaper looks like it might be just the trick there!

Then there's Mic's. I've got a pair of AKG's that might work for now, but they're over at the band practice house. So, maybe I'll grab them next time I'm over there and do a little 'spearmintin!

The Zoom seems like a lot to spend ($300) for what you are looking for. Reaper looks pretty good - great price. From experience I can tell you Cakewalk Home Studio is great, but Reaper looks like it does the same thing. To use either Reaper or Home Studio, you need a USB interface like TonePort or the Lexicon Lambda I mentioned. If you are going to be micing stuff, you'll probably want something with a high impedance input. You can get a TonePort with one for about $130, plus another $50 for Reaper and you are all set.

The Zoom seems like a lot to spend ($300) for what you are looking for. Reaper looks pretty good - great price. From experience I can tell you Cakewalk Home Studio is great, but Reaper looks like it does the same thing. To use either Reaper or Home Studio, you need a USB interface like TonePort or the Lexicon Lambda I mentioned. If you are going to be micing stuff, you'll probably want something with a high impedance input. You can get a TonePort with one for about $130, plus another $50 for Reaper and you are all set.

I agree that Reaper may be the way to go but you do not necessarily need a USB interface. As an option you can use a mixer and use a 1/4 inch to mini plug connection into the soundcard. That is what I do. My mixer cost me 39 bucks.

Dan

The Zoom seems like a lot to spend ($300) for what you are looking for.

as an interface alone, probably not. as a standalone live recorder, probably not. what trips my trigger is having both in one portable unit, with straightforward file management from the Zoom to your computer. i think it comes with Cubase, which a lot of people talk favorably about.

I agree that Reaper may be the way to go but you do not necessarily need a USB interface. As an option you can use a mixer and use a 1/4 inch to mini plug connection into the soundcard. That is what I do. My mixer cost me 39 bucks.

Dan

This is true but speaking strictly computer soundcard with no mixer there are a couple of problems. Impedance mismatch (no DI input for instruments), the generic soundcards are MME or WDM compliant however full duplex ASIO is by far the best driver type to be using especially if you are monitoring a live signal processed with a software based effect as it will introduce near undetectable latency as low as 3 thousandth of a seconds depending on the speed of your machine, of course the mic pre's are not usually of good quality with a generic soundcard, and I've always thought havig to adapt a 1/4 inch caple down to 1/8 inch was a sign I was not using something designed for studio recording.

Your right though these problems are nullified if you introduce a reasonable mixer and you use the majority of you effects outside of the computer. I guess it really depends on what you have in the studio to work with and how you want to work. It's so easy getting carried away.

I guess it really depends on what you have in the studio to work with and how you want to work.

a big +1! only you can decide what your personal recording standards are, based on your needs. attention to detail can take you a long way even if you don't have a Starship Enterprise studio, but in the end, it takes hardware to raise your standards to whatever the next level is. that's why pro studios don't hang a mike in the room where the band's playing and input the signal into the back of a PC.

I'm also looking to get started. The Lexicon Omega has been suggested to me as an interface, with some type of guitar preamp in front of it (Line 6, Digitech, etc.). I also want a drum machine - something with some fairly intuitive programmability, I don't want to have to spend 6 months figuring out how to program it. For this reason I'm considering a Digitech GNX4, which eliminates the need for the Lexicon. All advice would be very welcome.

I'm also looking to get started. The Lexicon Omega has been suggested to me as an interface, with some type of guitar preamp in front of it (Line 6, Digitech, etc.). I also want a drum machine - something with some fairly intuitive programmability, I don't want to have to spend 6 months figuring out how to program it. For this reason I'm considering a Digitech GNX4, which eliminates the need for the Lexicon. All advice would be very welcome.

Depneding on the program you end up with, you might have an included drum program or can add one to the program. So purchasing an external drum machine might not be necessary. Some of the software based drum packages will blow away cheap external drum machines.

Also some audio interfaces have HiZ instrument inputs with pre-amps already built in. A pre-amp before the audio interface might not be necessary for tapping a guitar in directly. I have a Presonus Firebox which handles guitars very well direct but the mic pre-amps are a bit weak on this unit. I could see myself using an external mic pre if miking an amp at low gain or a vocal direct but directly tapping a guitar is not a problem.

I am using Guitar Tracks Pro3 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cakewalk-Guitar-Tracks-Pro-3?sku=704988), a cakewalk product that includes a limited version of Amplitube and right now its on sale for $69.00. When combined with my Samson Q1U Dynamic USB Microphone (on line for around $40.00), I have been able to get some pretty good results.

Well, I picked up a toneport UX1 of the Bay.

Then I got a virus on my machine a few days later and haven't been able to play with it much! However, after a little tweaking, I was having fun and recorded a really crappy little 12 bar bit. When I get everything recovered, I'll make another, I'm sure, better one and post it just to prove I did listen to some of the advice here! It was pretty simple,once I figured out how to configure the TonePort to get sound out of my computer! I used Reaper, too, by the way.

Thanks to everyone who helped, much of what you guys said has been cataloged away for the next level of purchases!