Shellac neck tinting

Ive taken care to read a few threads on this and am looking for the most up to date advice I can get hold of.

Ive just applied a few coats of shellac to one of those paler than pale squier necks and am happy with the colour entirely and just need to steel wool it a little once its dried.

Do I have to lacquer it over the top to make the finish hold up? Or is it good to go as it is? Ive read that shellac will disolve in the unlikely event my guitar comes into contact with alcohol :shock:

Any advice greatly appreciated. I guess the only thing that worries me is though I have an aerosol can of nitro lying around Ive had limited success in the past with it due to a) its an aersosol can b)I dont have much space to spray/dry it c) poor technique/operator error!

For this reason if there is a way to do it without spraying thatll be very cool.

I have finished many necks in zinser amber shellac mixed with brownish tinted stain. I makes a great color in my opinion. I did always put coats of either nitro or poly over the top of it. I don't think shellac can be considered a final top coat. It's more of a wood treatment/tinting tool.

Yes it will come off with alcohol contact, and I don't think it makes for a really nice slick feel like poly does. It has been a great medium for tinting a pale maple neck for me though.

Tinted Shellac/Plus poly topcoat = happiness IMHO.

Thanks McFly, so I need a topcoat and im guessing poly will be nicer on my lungs than nitro.

Anyone in Europe who can tell me where they buy their lacquer?

Thanks McFly, so I need a topcoat and im guessing poly will be nicer on my lungs than nitro.

Anyone in Europe who can tell me where they buy their lacquer?

Hey Steve...you don have to put anything on top of the Shellac finish...most of the old instruments (pre-WWII) like guitars and violins were finished with shellac and the finish holds up just fine.
I used Shellac as a sanding sealer underneath nitro and it turned out great. But I cannot say if you can shoot Poly on top...you might want to wait until more fellas chime in because some paints just don't match and before you stand in frontof a mess...
If you decide to shoot some nitro on top of the shellac, here's a guy who sells it: Manchester Guitar Tech (http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/)
I have not used his products as he cannot send them to mainland Europe but I assume that they are fine...
Good luck!

Cheers,

Sascha

Thanks Lostheart, thats helpful.

I may try it with just plenty of shellac and a little sanding and see what I can achieve. If the WWII instruments are still holding up it should outlast me!

I have some nitro lacquer from the manchester guitar tech guy. He's been helpful in the past but Im afraid if I start spraying now Ill ruin a job Ive managed not to make a pigs ear of so far.

Thanks again for evryone's help.

You can put Poly urethane right on top of that shellac. so if you had some wipe on poly, that would solve your spraying issues.

Or you can leave the shellac as is as well!

Not only are old instruments finished in shellac, so are many old pieces of furniture! If you have ever seen a piece of furniture that is a hundred years old and is really shiny, chances are it's a french polish... which is nothing but shellac laid on by a very tedious and labor intensive process!.

Ill commence searching for wipe on poly.

Its tricky when you cant get hold of a particular brand name over here (eg. minwax) and youre not really sure what youre buying.

Steve, make sure you use only the best shellac, that which is totally dewaxed, as the contents in unrefined shellac will not make a good finish, covered or otherwise.

Don't forget there's alcohol in a lot of modern products, soaps, lotions, you name it so make sure your hands are not contaminated, as well use care on any product that comes near the guitar.


Bubbanov

"Hey Steve...you don have to put anything on top of the Shellac finish..."

Yep...
I love the feel of good 'ol shellac....
And I really love the look....

Hi Steve,
How did you apply your shellac? As French or Button polish, it is normally applied with a rubber, one cloth balled up inside another. A rub down with very file wire wool between coats when dry but a very light finish coat of polish with a few drops of linseed oil applied directly to the rubber face. The final rub heats the surface and the linseed lubricates otherwise you may 'pull' the under coats. The final with linseed oil gives it that hard glossy surface, no other finish is necessary and it will last years and be a joy to play. It's not as tough as a synthetic but will not dissolve unless you soak it in brandy etc., and it's fairly easy to repair.
Have fun, Jeff.

Use "real" shellac... flakes and alcohol...

I prefer Nitro over shellac but I have 1 neck that is just shellac with no problems.

This is Nitro over shellac
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/714/img_1125a.jpg

I have finished many necks in zinser amber shellac mixed with brownish tinted stain. I makes a great color in my opinion. I did always put coats of either nitro or poly over the top of it. I don't think shellac can be considered a final top coat. It's more of a wood treatment/tinting tool.

Yes it will come off with alcohol contact, and I don't think it makes for a really nice slick feel like poly does. It has been a great medium for tinting a pale maple neck for me though.

Tinted Shellac/Plus poly topcoat = happiness IMHO.

McFly: I need to refinish a headstock that I reshaped. The neck I'm working with is a dark amber poly finish. The Tinted amber coat came off fine but is underlain by some sort of clear sealer the stripper won't touch - got most of it off by sanding. I don't want to strip and refinish the entire neck at this point. I've been looking at the Zinser bullseye amber shellac for tinting the part I'm refinishing as it seems to be very close to the shade I need to match.

Would like to topcoat with spray poly but noted the shellac says it is not recommended as a sealer under poly. Apparently you have done it successfully though. Any special technique? Would acrylic laquer be an acceptable topcoat or is the poly (Minwax gloss) better? What type of brownish stain have you used....assume only a slight amount? Sorry for all the questions but I've spent much of the day mixing various oil base artist tints with poly trying to get the proper shade and am not satisfied so tomorrow I'm thinking of trying the shellac instead.

Thanks !!

I have put both poly and nitro (sprays) over the top of shellac and it hasn't been a problem. Some guys are saying that shellac is a good topcoat and I won't dissagree if it works for them, but it doesn't work for me. Here's why:

With shellac as the top coat, you will spend a lot of time, sanding/polishing/rubbing etc. If you are using the shellac as you primary coloring tool for the maple, it's very hard to keep the coat even given the time you spend tinkering with it. For me it's easier to spray the shellac/stain mixture using a Preval Sprayer. This lets me get the perfect shade I want. From there it's straight to the clearcoat spray.

I have found that if I trying to sand and polish shellac, I always wind up with uneven coloring. I'm sure it can be done, but it makes the job much more time consuming. Given I am applying a nice deep brownish amber, those spots really stick out.

I will try to post a pic later today.

Thanks very much for your response/info, McFly. I'm going to give it a try.

Hi Steve,
How did you apply your shellac? As French or Button polish, it is normally applied with a rubber, one cloth balled up inside another. A rub down with very file wire wool between coats when dry but a very light finish coat of polish with a few drops of linseed oil applied directly to the rubber face. The final rub heats the surface and the linseed lubricates otherwise you may 'pull' the under coats. The final with linseed oil gives it that hard glossy surface, no other finish is necessary and it will last years and be a joy to play. It's not as tough as a synthetic but will not dissolve unless you soak it in brandy etc., and it's fairly easy to repair.
Have fun, Jeff.

Pretty much the french polish method Jefrs, as you described. I am finding it tricky to get an even finish, and am currently using fine wire wool to bring it back a little.

As a by product of this ive ended up with a neck thats matt finish and tinted a little darker than it was. Itll win no beauty pageants but I quite like it. Its also a finish that isnt thick enough to chip.

May risk some more shellac coats and see what happens after that.

Thanks for everyones help on this.

Steve, if you don't like what you've got now, you can easily remove it with meths and wire wool. I stripped and refinished a concert classic then stripped it again and did it properly. The bare wood must be very smooth and clean. Each coat should be quite thin and allowed to dry thoroughly. If thick it may dry to chinese writing or orange peel. Don't put too many coats on. Powdered pumice is finer than the finest wire wool but will stick to wet polish, as do bits of wire. If you make your own polish then industrial methylated spirits (IMS) not blue meths, unless you want a blue neck. The cricket bat linseed seems to harden the polish and make it tougher. There's shellac and then there's shellac, different grades, colours and wax contents: yellow shellac buttons make button polish. My home made orange pearls did not make up to work as well as good quality bought stuff, it's cheap and you don't need much. Good luck, Jeff.

how do you delete a double post?

Steve, Attached is the most recent neck I finished used the shellac/stain mixture on the bar wood. It was then sprayed with nitro and wet-sanded.

Steve, if you don't like what you've got now, you can easily remove it with meths and wire wool. I stripped and refinished a concert classic then stripped it again and did it properly. The bare wood must be very smooth and clean. Each coat should be quite thin and allowed to dry thoroughly. If thick it may dry to chinese writing or orange peel. Don't put too many coats on. Powdered pumice is finer than the finest wire wool but will stick to wet polish, as do bits of wire. If you make your own polish then industrial methylated spirits (IMS) not blue meths, unless you want a blue neck. The cricket bat linseed seems to harden the polish and make it tougher. There's shellac and then there's shellac, different grades, colours and wax contents: yellow shellac buttons make button polish. My home made orange pearls did not make up to work as well as good quality bought stuff, it's cheap and you don't need much. Good luck, Jeff.

Thanks Jeff, Im going to persevere with the shellac and lots of polishing, your contribution has been really useful.

Steve, Attached is the most recent neck I finished used the shellac/stain mixture on the bar wood. It was then sprayed with nitro and wet-sanded.

looks good McFly, if I cant get the result I want with the shellac alone I may resort to having a go with the shellac/nitro combo.

Well, I tried the Zinser amber shellac to tint the headstock I reshaped. I have never worked with shellac before and there was a learning curve to achieve uniform application with a brush - trick for me was to only make one light pass over the surface using a foam brush. First time I put on too many coats and it was too dark/ brownish so I stripped it off. The particular neck finish I was trying to match has a strong yellowish - orange hue so the second time I but down a base coat of poly tinted with some yellow artist paint tint. Followed by a couple of light coats of amber shellac. This resulted in a very close match but being super picky I thought a little more orange would be just right. So, I finished with 2 very light topcoats of poly tinted with some orange artist paint tint, lightly sanded between coats. Came out perfect!

I went through a lot more difficulty/steps than a full neck finish/refinish because of trying match a specific color. After several unsuccessful prior matching attempts the amber shellac was the key. If I was doing a full neck finish just the amber shellac and poly or nitro topcoat would be my approach. Thanks to McFly and others for the advice/tips !

...i have a problem with polyurethane. i have come to realize it is nasty stuff. it is akin to dipping your guitar into molten plastic; it never really bonds with the wood and it totally kills off resonance. if it ever does actually start to come off, it is like a sunburn, and the whole freaking layer will eventually bubble up: the poly sticks to poly, and the wood is its enemy. when polyurethane starts to come off it looks like your guitar has been "saran wrapped". horrible. i'm in the middle of a maple fingerboard stratocaster refret covered in poly. tonight i just laid down my first ever coat of shellac, and i must say i was immediately impressed. i plan on covering that with some rattle can laquer.
i have played and heard unfinished/lightly finished guitar necks, and i can testify, there IS a difference. plus, who wants a nasty plastic cocoon drowning their axe? not i.
also to those of you finishing/stripping/refinishing your necks multiple times...you're asking for trouble with warping, etcetera! ...play the dang thing, it ain't an ornament! i only refret/refinish when the neck and frets are fuct, not because its not a perfect 1954 "amber". newsflash: maple is a very, very light colored wood. it is not supposed to be orange. must you pretend that you have antique guitars? i hope you can play em, then!
PS, JDR- don't use foam "brushes"...!the laquer/shellac dissolves the foam, so you are applying the foam from your brush to your guitar in addition to the intended finish! i was about to buy foam throwaway brushes myself but luckily on the handle of the brushes it was imprinted: "do not use for applying laquers or shellacs". i use some cheapo natural bristles.