Hellatones - Tell Me More

Am I missing something?

These are identical to the Celestions that everyone else is selling for $20 more or higher, but they've been broken in, and sound superior?

I'm not calling it a lie - just don't know how Profits 101 works for Avatar, in this case. Maybe it's Competition 101...

For anyone who's A/B'd the H's against factory GB's and V30's, please tell me of your experiences, no matter how subjective.

I'm looking to buy one more GB/V30'ish speaker, and they're all so close in price, between the RedCoats, Legend GB, and Weber ceramics. The Hellatones fit right in with these four other choices, pricewise.

I own 3 of these speakers. Two of the 60 watt and one 30 watt. I have the 60 and 30 in a 2x12 cabinet and the other 60 in a 1x12 cabinet. I am very pleased. If you are going to get a Celestion, I'd suggest these. They are broken in a bit (not exactly sure how much) but right out of the box they have a great tone.

Wayne

I am very pleased.

Details? Other than broken in...

The only reason I want to know is that there are so many great Brit flavored 12's for around a C note, that I can't decide on one just by price alone.

Certain Emi RedCoats and the Leg GB128 have a leg up on the Celestions in subtle ways, but nothing earth shattering...

The Brit Webers are awesome for the money, but are mainly targeted at repro'ing the diff. Celestions - awesome speakers, but just a variation on the theme...

I guess I'm looking for a reason to go with the H's over Emi's and Webers, if there is one.

Details? Other than broken in...

The only reason I want to know is that there are so many great Brit flavored 12's for around a C note, that I can't decide on one just by price alone.

Certain Emi RedCoats and the Leg GB128 have a leg up on the Celestions in subtle ways, but nothing earth shattering...

The Brit Webers are awesome for the money, but are mainly targeted at repro'ing the diff. Celestions - awesome speakers, but just a variation on the theme...

I guess I'm looking for a reason to go with the H's over Emi's and Webers, if there is one.


Broken in is the only difference (sometimes Dave forgets to slap on the Hellatone label over the Celestion one, or it's a little askew and you can see the old label underneath), but it's a big difference in many cases. I don't know if the newer Chinese V30's are stiffer or something, but on another forum there have been several people wanting to either get rid of their new amp or swap out speakers- all with a new V30. You know how spikey and harsh they can be when new. Usually, the V30 breaks in just in the nick of time, and presto, everyone's happy. I can tell you from personal experience there is a huge difference if you A-B them. It is probably less noticeable if you just let your Celestion break in, since it's obviously gradual.

As far as profit motive, I think Dave at Avatar is just a good guy and wants people to be happy with his stuff right away. He told me personally that his break-in procedure is to daisy chain a bunch of Celestions together with alligator clips and leave 'em playing rap music through a CD player overnight!

Not meant as a plug, but he's really one of the best folks I ever dealt with in the gear business. Great product for the $, not greedy and always tries hard to please. He answers the phone himself often.

Oh, to follow up it may be that he buys the Celestions in such huge quantities that he gets a break on them. He also told me of several boutique amp makers (I'll mercifully let them remain anonymous) who routinely buy Celestions from him when they run out.

Details? Other than broken in...

The only reason I want to know is that there are so many great Brit flavored 12's for around a C note, that I can't decide on one just by price alone.

Certain Emi RedCoats and the Leg GB128 have a leg up on the Celestions in subtle ways, but nothing earth shattering...

The Brit Webers are awesome for the money, but are mainly targeted at repro'ing the diff. Celestions - awesome speakers, but just a variation on the theme...

I guess I'm looking for a reason to go with the H's over Emi's and Webers, if there is one.

Basically what was said in the other responses. But, you have to like the tone of the Vintage 30. That is the speaker that it is. I'd match the Vintage 30 up against any other speakers you are looking at. If you decide you like the V30 the best, I'd get the Hellatone and save yourself that "break in" period where the speaker doesn't sound its best.

Wayne

Thanks, guys.

I think I am leaning towards the Hellatone.

The V30 characteristics seem to be my reference point, so I should probably just cut to the chase, and go with the real McCoy.

I tend to break in speakers fast (usually a marathon weekend of heavy playing), but the fact that Avatar doesn't even charge extra for it is a wonderful thing, IMO.

Good luck, you will like the speaker.

I have bought several Hellatones - G12H-30 and V30s. I cannot say I 'know' how he is making a profit. But I will speculate this: Volume + margin equals profit. He may be making less profit, but sells far more than most Celetion suppliers.

As far as the quality, he claims that they are identical to Celestions in every way because they ARE Celestions. I will confirm that I have peeled the stickers back and found the Celestion label on several. But one did not have a Celestion label beneath the Hellatone (though it looked the same). I have one particular Hellatone V30 that has a rubbing voise coil. That can happen to any production speaker from any manufacturer. But it raised my brow and made me considr if shear volume that Dave gets, would imply that his speakers are not meeting QA 100%. BTW, the rubbing speaker does have a Celestion sticker.

Overall, I am extremely happy with the cost savings of the speakers that I wanted. In my opinion, you should go for the Hellatone and save a little cash.

I have one particular Hellatone V30 that has a rubbing voise coil. That can happen to any production speaker from any manufacturer.

Yes it can, but returning raw speakers is a huge PITA, IMO. Incurred shipping costs, and the vendor/manufacturer getting the ultimate say if the speaker is covered make me wary (some will claim either abuse, or no defects found during tests).

I'm on the East Coast and Avatar's on the West Coast, so I really don't want to go through any returns headaches...

...Out of how many Hellatones you've bought did you incur a defective one? How did Avatar handle it?

I slapped one in my Champ 12, I think they sound great. for the $, I think a great value. I was with you on the wondering about the $ thing, why are they so much less than the Celestions? I think that Reverbbb got it right, they are making it up in volume and making less on each speaker.

A lot of retailers try to go for the keystone, but obviously Avatar is not making that with this price. who cares? great speaker at a great price, IMO

They're simply the SAME speaker, only they're broken in. That's all.

You might as well go for the properly labelled (not relabelled as Hellatones) version (especially if its cheaper).

Experiencing the break-in on your own lets you know which speakers actually change when broken in and which ones don't change at all... selling pre-broken in speakers is ridiculous - especially considering SOME speakers don't really sound any different when "broken in" at all.

They're simply the SAME speaker, only they're broken in. That's all.

You might as well go for the properly labelled (not relabelled as Hellatones) version (especially if its cheaper).

Experiencing the break-in on your own lets you know which speakers actually change when broken in and which ones don't change at all... selling pre-broken in speakers is ridiculous - especially considering SOME speakers don't really sound any different when "broken in" at all.

The Hellatones actually cost less. The question is whether you think the $10-25 dollar savings and the potential for a better sounding speaker out of the box is worth buying from someone other than the manufacturer. I've only heard good things about the Hellatones, so I would probably take the chance on the Hellatone, which I was considering before I found the Heritage Greenback I have now.

I was under the impression the savings were more on the order of $30 or $40, but my memory may be suspect...

I believe the hellatone was about $85 shipped, and I think the same celestion was about $130 or so? I really didn't (and still don't) care about the pre-broken in aspect, just was looking to save some $ on a great speaker, for a cheap Champ 12.

I do recall dave at Avatar describing the break-in thing. apparently he just hooks them up to a medium level output for about 15 hours, continuously. I am no speaker expert by any means, but I think the sound on this speaker is good

...Out of how many Hellatones you've bought did you incur a defective one? How did Avatar handle it?

I have bought perhaps 4 or 5 Hellatones. So statistically that does not sound like a good success rate. But that also does not prove anything either since the sample lot is so small.

I think that I have bought all of mine from Dave through eBay. I didn't notice the coil rubbing until WAY down the road. This speaker went in and out of different amps for the past two years. It sat in a box for nearly a year. I apparently didn't notice it right off the bat. Therefore I can assume that it either developed the rub later or I just didn't notice it. It wasn't until I was doing some very specific amp A/B tests that I noticed this speaker rubbing. It is not bad. I sort of look at it as a lo-fi effect. I don't think it would be noticed in a full band mix or recording. But since so much time had past, I could not pin-point how it happened or which purchase this was. So, I have not bothered to confront Dave about the issue. It simply does not bother me enough to hassle with it. I only bring it up so that you understand that there is not a 100% success rate. I will say, that mine is the only one that I have heard of having this issue.

I haven't compared it to a non-treated G12H30, but I was very pleased with the Hellatone 30 I put in my Marshall 18-watt clone, and it sounded good right out of the box.

Warehouse Guitar Speakers, I have one of their Vintage 30 clones, my buddy has a Hellatone, we both have the exact same amps.
The WGS Veteran 30 sounds just as good or better than the Hellatone to both of us.
Also a local amp builder Robert Hinson ( who makes killer amps by the way) been using the WGS in his amps lately too, he likes them better than the V30s/Hellatones.

And ... they are $45 ea + shipping !

http://www.warehousespeakers.com/

They're simply the SAME speaker, only they're broken in. That's all.

You might as well go for the properly labelled (not relabelled as Hellatones) version (especially if its cheaper).

Experiencing the break-in on your own lets you know which speakers actually change when broken in and which ones don't change at all... selling pre-broken in speakers is ridiculous - especially considering SOME speakers don't really sound any different when "broken in" at all.

I may be wrong, but I think the idea is that V30s DO sound quite different after break-in, so I can see the benefit in buying one that way...

Cheers, Tim

Cost less?

Hmm... that is scary. Same speaker, relabelled, less cost...

As far as V30s and break in, I can't even remember. I've only gone through two sets of V30s over all these years. They're my favorite speakers and I use them 100% of the time live and at least 60% of the time recording... I don't recall any difference, but like I said - its been a long, long, long time since I've used any new/unbroken-in ones, these old V30s will go in my casket when I croak :)

There are rumors that the "break in" process also involves spraying something on the cone to soften it, maybe Downy fabric softener.

Warehouse Guitar Speakers, I have one of their Vintage 30 clones, my buddy has a Hellatone, we both have the exact same amps.
The WGS Veteran 30 sounds just as good or better than the Hellatone to both of us.
Also a local amp builder Robert Hinson ( who makes killer amps by the way) been using the WGS in his amps lately too, he likes them better than the V30s/Hellatones.

And ... they are $45 ea + shipping !

http://www.warehousespeakers.com/

Geez! Now my head is spinning...

I like that they were clear about their intention to attenuate the upper midrange spike. Some folks dig that spike as is, others will no doubt appreciate the WGS twist.

Maybe I need a Hellatone and a WGS. My goal was a pair of 2X12 cabs - maybe I'll end up building three or more...

Geez! Now my head is spinning...

I like that they were clear about their intention to attenuate the upper midrange spike. Some folks dig that spike as is, others will no doubt appreciate the WGS twist.

Maybe I need a Hellatone and a WGS. My goal was a pair of 2X12 cabs - maybe I'll end up building three or more...



Forget that!

Why the hell would anyone "attenuate the upper midrange spike" of a V30??!!

The spike "notorious in V30s"... what idiots... "notorious"??!! If you don't like that honking midrange bump, get something NOT like a V30 in the first place.

Jeez, no thanks. That's why guys like Angus Young and Slash loved the V30s. That "notorious" spike adds flavor. That massive midrange "honk" makes the guitar pop out in the mix in a big way.

It can take some getting used to for sure, but that midrange will make you be able to stick out in the mix.

As far as the Hellatones, I wouldn't doubt it if they were RETURNS, refurbs, or otherwise open-box speakers that got a fabric softener treatment and breaking-in to justify relabelling and reselling them.

Why the hell would anyone "attenuate the upper midrange spike" of a V30??!![/B]

I think that this is their twist to the V30 - everyone seems to be doing it, or claiming that they've done it.

I agree with you - that spike is what makes the V30 what it is, love it or hate it. I tend to favor it, but when you have four or eight of them in closed back cabs, it can be a bit much, IMO. That's why I think it's cool to mix 'em up.

The G12T-75 is one that I personally think sounds like doo doo. The Emi Wiz is pretty similar, and by itself many guitarists don't seem impressed with it. Where it works is paired up with a Gov/V30/etc., IMO.

I'd bet that most of the spike in the WGS is still there, though. Guitarists seem to be pretty conservative when it comes to someone messing around with a classic design. When they "improve" it too much, it typically doesn't seem to be well embraced, IMO.

Forget that!

As far as the Hellatones, I wouldn't doubt it if they were RETURNS, refurbs, or otherwise open-box speakers that got a fabric softener treatment and breaking-in to justify relabelling and reselling them.


They are not returns or refurbs.

Avatar simply sells lots of Celestion speakers and since they purchase in bulk they get a volume discount.

The break-in as I understand it is similar to what Ted Weber offers on his break-in service -- pumping an unspecified number of hours of music or sound through the speakers.

The reason for the relabel is simple, it allows them to sell the speakers at a lower price point.

Forget that!

Why the hell would anyone "attenuate the upper midrange spike" of a V30??!!

The spike "notorious in V30s"... what idiots... "notorious"??!! If you don't like that honking midrange bump, get something NOT like a V30 in the first place.

Jeez, no thanks. That's why guys like Angus Young and Slash loved the V30s. That "notorious" spike adds flavor. That massive midrange "honk" makes the guitar pop out in the mix in a big way.

It can take some getting used to for sure, but that midrange will make you be able to stick out in the mix.

As far as the Hellatones, I wouldn't doubt it if they were RETURNS, refurbs, or otherwise open-box speakers that got a fabric softener treatment and breaking-in to justify relabelling and reselling them.

In court your comments, absent of proof, could be construed as slander.

Do you have an axe to grind with Avatar?

In court your comments, absent of proof, could be construed as slander.

Do you have an axe to grind with Avatar?

I think that all that is needed is to cut JC a little slack. He holds some amp gear (like the V30) as very precious and perfect in their original design. The thought of someone rebranding one or "fixing what ain't broke" is upsetting to him.

If Johnny has an axe to grind, he's up front with it, immediately (if I may speak on his behalf).

Luckily for all of us, this isn't a courtroom.

The Emi Wiz is pretty similar, and by itself many guitarists don't seem impressed with it. Where it works is paired up with a Gov/V30/etc., IMO.



The Wizard by itself is pretty good. Really nice bass and good articulation but maybe not all around as good as a G12H-30 alone like you say.

Paired with a Red Fang...now that's a nice combo. You get it all.

But to the Hellatones, they sound great. I played my Winfield head through an Avatar cab with the Hellatone 30 & 60's in it and it was nothing short of awesome.

I seriously doubt they are refurb's. I'm sure Avatar gets a price break on volume.

They are brand new speakers. Best speakers I've used. Avatar is a great company that produces excellent quality. They have great customer service and support. I wouldn't want negative words getting around about them because of hearsay or assumptions. He works very hard and is a small business, there should be more companies like Avatar.

Wayne

I think that all that is needed is to cut JC a little slack. He holds some amp gear (like the V30) as very precious and perfect in their original design. The thought of someone rebranding one or "fixing what ain't broke" is upsetting to him.

If Johnny has an axe to grind, he's up front with it, immediately (if I may speak on his behalf).

Luckily for all of us, this isn't a courtroom.

I'm fairly new here although I've been sneaking in now and then for a couple of years. I don't want to piss off Johnny. However, I did find his comments to be curious.

I've pretty much decided to go with a Hellatone combo for my Lightning build. I like the idea that they've been worked in a bit and the price isn't too shabby either.