aNaLoG.MaN King of Tone (review)

well, I said I'd post a review...here goes!

Well, I finally got my King of Tone pedal a week or so ago after a 2+ year wait. I packed up almost all my other effects and went to town with the KoT!

I spent most of the time with my #1 Telecaster, my Strat and my 58 reissue Les Paul. The amp I leaned on the most was my 62 brown Fender Deluxe but my Mission Amps Super and my 69 Twin reverb did get some time too.

First off, this is an amazing looking pedal...I got v4 which is the newest at this time, it's finished in hammer tone purple paint with yellow/gold graphics, it sports 6 external controls and 3 internal controls. The controls on the outside are a pair of volumes, a pair of tones and a pair of drive controls. On the inside there are 2 treble boost (or cut) mini pots and a bank of 4 dip switches. The KoT v4 is more or less 2 OD pedals in one box that share a common power supply but that’s it...they have all their own controls and each side can be set in a number of different ways. There is more to it and if you want more about the specs of the pedal check it out at AM's web site.

I also have to say this...the KoT is a VERY well made pedal...great parts, high quality and made very well, solid as a tank. Very well thought out design and VERY user friendly.

There are 3 modes that can be had on either of the 2 channels of this pedal..."clean", "od" and "dist"...I will say this, this pedal is NOT a TS type unit and sounds NOTHING like one to my ears but for comparison purposes Mike uses a TS as a measuring stick if you will, this is from his site and will break down the 3 modes...

1) Normal Overdrive mode (OD mode): This is the standard King Of Tone sound- a little less drive available than a tube screamer. Factory DIP switch setting has this mode on the right (red) channel. This mode can get about 4 times louder than a tube screamer if desired.

2) CLEAN mode : This mode has less drive, can be used for clean boosts or clearer, louder sounds. It's like a clean boost with an overdrive knob. CLEAN MODE is even less compressed than the standard OD mode. The factory DIP switch setting uses this mode on the left (yellow) channel. This mode can get twice as loud as the OD mode. You can think of the clean mode as the OD mode with the overdrive removed, allowing louder, clearer tone. But the drive knob still functions and can add some drive to the sound, and volume as it's turned up.

3) DISTORTION mode : This mode has more drive than the standard OD mode- a touch of hard distortion. The sound is more compressed, yet retains the King Of Tone character. This mode can get about twice as loud as a tube screamer. Think of this mode as a cross between a Boss DS-1 distortion and OD-1 overdrive, with more clarity. We recommend most players use the OD and CLEAN modes. While the DIST mode sounds great, and I like to use it on certain occasions, it does not allow the pedal to get its absolute BEST tones. You can put an aged single malt Scotch whisky on ice, but it would be a shame to dilute it!

This pedal is simply one of the best (if not THE best) Overdrive pedals I've ever heard! It keeps all the bass in your tone, it doesn't muddy up the mids and the treble never gets harsh or fizzy. The tone control(s) have a very broad range but never get muddy or harsh in either extreme of it's rotation, the drive control(s) are very useable as well, and the volume controls can be used to get less than unity gain (if need be) and way beyond it if you want it...this pedal has LOTS of volume on all 3 settings! If you like the tone you get from your guitar/amp combo as is you'll love the KoT, if you have a crappy tone don't expect the KoT to "fix" it

This is what I have found so far and what I’m using the pedal for...if I’m at home (I live in an apartment) and can't crank my amps I'll set the red channel for the 3rd mode (distortion) and use that side as a stand alone crunch box...it's not high gain by any means but **** does it have killer tone!!! It's a nice crunchy tone and responds to all your playing changes like a cranked amp does, it's full of very natural sounding harmonics and let’s the tone of the guitar and amp really shine through. I use the yellow channel set to the 2nd mode (od) and use it as a boost for solo's...I keep the volume and gain controls set to get a little more volume but with a very similar tone and I just cascade them together, in other words I don’t switch the red side off then switch the yellow side off...red for crunch and red and yellow for solos, however if I do turn the red side off the yellow side alone gives me a killer mild OD on it's own.

Now, if I can crank the amp I go back to the factory settings...that is the red set to OD and the yellow to clean...and I use the red side to give the amp that kick that makes for a killer thick crunchy tone for chords and such then I'll kick on the yellow side, again for leads...set to a very similar tone (maybe just a hair more cut to the tone) but with more volume.

Like I said above this is simply one of the best OD pedals I've ever used, I couldn't be happier with it. Not a high gain crunch box by any means but if you want to hear you amp cranked but can't crank it the KoT is great, if you're looking to take a killer cranked amp and add a little more to it...give it a nice kick in the pants w/o loosing the tone you took so long to create the KoT is for you...in other words, believe the hype...the price is very reasonable IMO, the wait on the other hand is long (I waited just over 2 years) but IMO it is worth it and if my KoT were to get stolen I wouldn't be bothered t all to either have to pay the crazy high ebay prices or wait another 2 years to get another one! It's hard to get a bad sound out of this pedal!

Pretty much what I found. I normally use the normal :) mode as it's the best sounding to my ears. Lately, I've been using the KOT in my Northern VA apartment during the week...and I've been using the distortion mode. The distortion mode is really too thick for any tube amp that's already crunching but is still fun. In front of my Super Champ it's a load of fun...but the distortion mode gets squishy.

This isn't the stomp box for a crap amp. If you've already got a good sounding tube amp, this is an awesome pedal to put in front. Don't expect magic from a Gorilla or other junk amp. But in front of my '65 BFDR....the tone is maaaaahvelous!

and there's the Stupid Wait.

Compared a/b with my Klon, I'd really have to give the nod to my Klon. It's a little better but we're talking about a very slight differences. But....then again, the Klon doesn't have that second channel.

Maybe think of it as a Klon with an OCD after it?

I am just not a fan of the Klon pedal top be honest, it sounds great for some guys but for me it just doesn't do it. However the ability to have 2 channels and all the different settings make the KoT a keeper for me for sure...none of my amps have master volumes so the distortion setting really helps with low lever crunch...Im still just lovin it!

I'm another very satisfied KoT owner. Awesome pedal. Just to add to what has already been said, I don't use it for a solo boost the same way I would use a TS9. I use it more as a tone shaping tool for rhythm and sometimes if I want to add a little sustain to a solo. I have it set up for 3 stages of light gain and my TS9 provides a 4th. Awesome little box. Well worth the wait.

Had mine a few years. Perfect!!

It's the only overdrive I've kept besides the FD2. I wish the FD2 had two seperate channels like the KOT does... I'd set one for comp-cut and one for FM. The KOT is great, I can't imagine getting rid of it. I use it to push an already-pushed tube amp farther into overdrive territory, and it works great for that. As a clean boost, I prefer the FD2 comp-cut, but as an overdrive, both pedals rock incredibly. The seperate channels (with seperate vol, tone, and drive controls) really sets it apart. And it's in a relatively small box...

How does it compare to the boost side (not overdrive) of a Klon? The Klon is still one of the most transparent and best sounding boosts I've heard.

Tom

There's no "Boost" side of a Klon per se. There's only three control: drive, volume and tone. If what you're asking is whether a KoT sounds as good as a Klon being using as a clean boost (meaning drive set to low; volume high)....then, my experience is that it's pretty close. I really haven't heard anything yet that is as transparent as a Klon but again...the differences are very slight once you're in the realm of these boutique pedals.

The KoT does the clean boost very well. However, I think there are a number of very good clean boost alternatives that will sound almost as good for a lot less $$$. I think what sets the KoT apart really is that the channels act a lot more independently than other dual pedals....that and that the OD seems to mate well with a variety of amps. It also seems to very easy to dial in two sounds that work well together....whether that be clean boost/OD or OD/distortion.

I love my KOT V4. Very amp like pedal and sounds great w/any guitar. I run the internal treble boost real low and then use the external tone to add some grit to the OD. I run a hoochie mama in front of it for solos and it screams. Big open lead tones w/great harmonics.

I run a hoochie mama in front of it for solos and it screams

Interesting...I always run the distortion stuff after my KoT (or Klon). Boosting a distortion seems to mush it up too much.

Guess it depends on the amp, etc. I have tried it the other way too.

I have the original version of the KOT, #25 to be exact. Best sounding overdrive pedal I've ever owned or ever tried.

"If what you're asking is whether a KoT sounds as good as a Klon being using as a clean boost (meaning drive set to low; volume high)....then, my experience is that it's pretty close."


Yeah, Lance, that's it. Was just curious how they compared as clean boosts.

Tom

I have an earlier (1st?) version, small enclosure. I like it a lot but it does not retain ALL of the bass. I notice the loss mostly at home not on a gig. My OCD does seem to retain all of the bass but the only setting on the OCD that I really love is with the drive turned all the way down. The OCD does clean up with the guitar's volume control, better than any pedal I've owned. I think my ideal OD pedal would combine the best aspects of both pedals. I'd love to try the GT-500.

Well, I just got mine hooked up this weekend but have some questions about the volume range on each channel before I go and bug Mike about it (bear in mind I've been usng a FD2 for a number of years now so that's what I'm used to). At what volume knob setting (with the others at 12 o'clock high) do you get unity volume and how much volume increase range after that? I have attenuation at volumes below 2 o'clock in either channel, and unity between 2-3, running either a battery or adaptor power.

I will say this, this pedal is NOT a TS type unit and sounds NOTHING like one to my ears

That's because the KOT is a Marshall Bluesbreaker tweaked clone.

There are 9 differences in components between a BB and the KOT, plus the dip switch which allows you to turn on or off resistors and diodes, to get the different "modes."

The FullDrive is a Boss SD-1 tweaked clone, and the OCD is a Voodoo Labs Overdrive tweaked clone.

Well, I just got mine hooked up this weekend but have some questions about the volume range on each channel before I go and bug Mike about it (bear in mind I've been usng a FD2 for a number of years now so that's what I'm used to). At what volume knob setting (with the others at 12 o'clock high) do you get unity volume and how much volume increase range after that? I have attenuation at volumes below 2 o'clock in either channel, and unity between 2-3, running either a battery or adaptor power.

David,
Basically, straight up on all controls is unity. I usually run my tones slight higher...maybe 1pm. On the boost side, I have the knob at 1pm and the OD side is around 3pm. Adjust the volume to suit. It's a pretty conservative setting as I also use an OCD for the heavy stuff.

Inside, DIP switches are stock setting.

L-

2 Year wait :shock: Fargen Mini Plex or Suhr Badger will give you pure
Power Tube O/D at Bedroom levels. Don't need any
pedals pushing the front end.

I have attenuation at volumes below 2 o'clock in either channel, and unity between 2-3, running either a battery or adaptor power.


I've got a KOT v.4. That doesn't sound right. Better call Mike.

I have had weird phase issues with pedals before, where I have some pedals powered by different sources I think, and this affects the volume of that individual pedal pretty drastically. I almost sent an SIB Echodrive back for repair because I thought it was broken, but it turned out to be a weird phase issue (or maybe a cable issue) that I got sussed out.

I find that the output is very interactive with (and dependent on) the amount of gain dialed in. That is, little or no gain will yield little or no volume, regardless of how high I crank the volume. Not at all like (for instance) TS-type pedals, or the Gainster, where it's recommended to start with gain = 0, set volume for unity, and bump up the grit from there. I have v2 and v4 and both units share this characteristic.

Great pedal in any case!

I received mine recently. Waited 10 months. Very nice transparent boost/ overdrive/distortion. But it is true, this pedal only works with an amp that you already love. It can ad gain but it doesn't change the overall tone. Make me think about getting a better amp.

I find that the output is very interactive with (and dependent on) the amount of gain dialed in. That is, little or no gain will yield little or no volume, regardless of how high I crank the volume. Not at all like (for instance) TS-type pedals

That's because the KOT is 85% Marshall BluesBreaker.

In the BluesBreaker, the first gain stage is biased with a 10K resistor, and gain is added with a 100K pot. There are no clipping diodes. Even when you set the gain on zero with a TS or similar clone, you still have a 51K resistor in the feedback loop. The TS has a 500K drive pot. Higher values=more gain. BB/KOT has 10K min/110K max, TS has 51K min/551K max.

All of the action with a Tubescreamer or clone is in that first gain stage, whether it be boost or overdrive. The BluesBreaker or KOT is different - stage one is extremely mild, even with the drive knob maxxed. The second gain stage uses a BIG resistor to bias - 220K vs. 1K for a TS. Also, the diodes are added in at this stage. Mike also adds a crossover distortion clipping pair AFTER the second gain stage, and it runs tandem with the tone controls.

This is why the KOT behaves nothing like a TS - it isn't a TS clone. It is a Marshall BluesBreaker-based pedal. The only thing that the TS and BB really have in common is the dual opamp.

Hi,

I recently purchased one of these pedals and I am really enjoying it. It's the only pedal that I have played that sounds and feels like my guitar plugged into my amp at high volume (extremely natural and organic).

Even at high gain settings on the OD channel (red) when picked lightly my guitar is almost dead clean. When I really dig in with my pick it distorts beautifully only exhibiting compression at these moments. If you like the tone of your instrument and the distortion nature of your amplifier, you'll like this pedal. If you want a pedal to EQ your sound, like a midrange boast you wont like it.

My $.02

Bob

But it is true, this pedal only works with an amp that you already love. It can ad gain but it doesn't change the overall tone. Make me think about getting a better amp.

Not to get off topic here but, this is exactly how I feel about pickup swapping!

Not to get off topic here but, this is exactly how I feel about pickup swapping!

Are you saying the amp has more to do with the overall sound than the pickups? :wink:

I think so.

Are you saying the amp has more to do with the overall sound than the pickups? :wink:

I think so. No, not at all. I'm saying that a guitar I already love will respond well to a pickup change where as I've never been able to "save" a mediocre guitar by changing pickups. The guitar either "has it" in the first place, or it doesn't have it at all. That's just my personal experience and it reflects yours where the KoT pedal sounds great through an amp you already love, but won't save an amp that's just not doing it for you in the first place. In my experience, swapping pickups in a guitar I don't like just further exaggerates and amplifies the characteristics I don't like. Much the same, a KoT pedal used with an amp I don't like, just makes the amp sound worse.

Telenator Speaketh the Truth!

The amp has the most affect on tone....then guitar.........and way down there....pickups.

With the KoT it's same concept. Great amp....KoT awesome. With a crap amp....a fancy KoT just can't make up for bad tone.

Another thing with the KoT.....get the power tubes working and you'll really see it shine. Running a sqeaky clean amp with a KoT in front isn't the concept. I like getting my DR up to 4 or 5 using a Weber MiniMass. The KoT is the happy ending.

I got on the list on September 10th, 2006. Just checked today and Mike is shipping on orders as of July 30th, 2006. 40 days or so out. Man, I can't wait; I remember waiting 10 weeks for my Keeley Compressor, that was child's play compared to this. I'll try to remember to post up a review when I get it. I have a 68 Tele and a 67 Tele reissue (that CS time machine job) that I run through a 66 SR and a 70 DR.

It's funny, the closer you get, the more the tension builds; like having your first baby I guess. I said, "I guess", okay?

I got on the list on September 10th, 2006. Just checked today and Mike is shipping on orders as of July 30th, 2006.

A 2-year waiting game. Seems ludicrous that they could be that far behind.

I can't help thinking someone somewhere is giggling about this.

I originally posted that I had a 10 month wait. I looked again and it was 22 months. I put my name on the list for the heck of it and didn't worry about it.

I've noticed a lot of these on ebay lately. Probably selling them to by gas.

A 2-year waiting game. Seems ludicrous that they could be that far behind.

I can't help thinking someone somewhere is giggling about this.

The pedal really is THAT good. Their shop is about 15 miles from where I live and they're always looking for skilled people to build these things!

You'll often see them on ebay for twice the retail price.

Still loving mine as well!!! Nice to see Mike getting caught up!!

A 2-year waiting game. Seems ludicrous that they could be that far behind.

I can't help thinking someone somewhere is giggling about this.

Yeah - all the guys who know that the KoT = Marshall Bluesbreaker.

Granted, the KoT is actually 2 BB circuits in one box, and Mike's added the dipswitch macgruberized gizmonoid and a few other tweaks, but you could buy a pair of BB's and have them modded into a KoT in probably two weeks or less.

Actually, revolutiondeux shows how/where to mod the GGG BB pcb to make it into a KoT. You could actually buy a pair of BB clones from GGG, put them both in your own box, and even add a few more switching options or tweaks.

Don't believe me - here's the skinny:

http://revolutiondeux.blogspot.com/

Schemos for all of the hot new boutiquer's are listed on the right, and there are details about the original pedal that the boutique design is lifted from.

Pedals covered:

HAO Rust Driver
Fulltone OCD
ZVex Machine
Skreddy Mayo
Xotic AC/RC Booster
Paul C. Timmy Overdrive
KoT Overdrive
Zendrive
ZVex Wah Probe
COT50 (modified)
Klon Centaur
Lovepedal Eternity
Clay Jones Overdrive

NOTE: There is some colorful language at this site. Maybe not inappropriate for kids of decent aptitude, but colorful just the same. Also, if you worship any of these pedals, some of the details/verbiage may be irritating or offensive.

No need to wait forever for a pedal. Maybe for something tricky to build like a Klon Centaur, but that's about it. No rocket science with most designs.

But patience is a virtue.:lol:

I was surprised to see this thread back but after reading most of the newer posts I have to admit...Im a little let down...

If you don't think a pedal is worth the asking price, if you feel like the wait time is too long or if you want to trash talk the pedal by simply putting it down please find another thread to do it...

I really like my KoT and maybe the circiut is simlilar to a Marshall Blues Breaker but having owned both I can tell you that the KoT is a much better sounding pedal hands down...

I really wish I could simply deleat this thread now but there is no deleat option so it stays but please take the negative comments somewhere else.

Thanks
TGWIF

If you don't think a pedal is worth the asking price, if you feel like the wait time is too long or if you want to trash talk the pedal by simply putting it down please find another thread to do it...

Whether or not I or anyone else feels that a pedal is/isn't worth the cost or wait is just an opinion, and is part and parcel of any thread. You cannot dictate the tone or positivity/negativity/humor/etc. nature of replies to your original post.

I don't think I'm talking trash - I've pointed to a source that accurately defines what circuit current boutique pedals are lifted from. It's facts, not trash. If you wish to deny it, that is your personal choice. You may also notice that pedals such as the Klon Centaur are 100% original. Folks have a right to know that, as well, IMO.

There are lots of folks out there with hard earned money who have a right to know that you don't have to spend a fortune or wait until heck freezes over to get your hands on one of these unobtanium circuits. They deserve to know that the KoT is not a unique circuit - it's lifted from a Marshall Bluesbreaker...

...Now, if someone chooses to wait in line or pony up the big bucks (or both), that's fine, and nothing wrong with it. But not everyone is in a position to do so - they deserve the facts, IMO. Sorry to drop some rain on your parade.

Do you have a problem with facts? Not trying to pick a fight, but why be defensive? A little balance of opinion should never hurt - the best products out there will weather any such storm.

No problem at all with facts, I just prfer to keep my threads positive...FWIW, what I was wasn't just directed at you.

...At any rate Im not going to get into big discussion about pedals, clones, copies, etc...there are very few origin al ideas floating around these days (Klon included) so it's a near pointless discussion IMO.

I have a KOT as well, and also think it's great. I didn't mind the wait or the cost. I would be curious to hear from someone who has modded a BB pedal to see how they like it, and if they have ever compared the two.

I just searched YouTube, thinking there must be a clip of someone comparing the two, but I didn't find anything.

That's because the KOT is 85% Marshall BluesBreaker.


Just my two cents, but I didn't take any of that info as a slam at all. I thought it was pretty educational, actually. But remember, it's usually the extra 15% that makes all the difference!
Especially for those of us who can't solder or build our own pedals.
Again, just my two cents.

I have a KOT as well, and also think it's great. I didn't mind the wait or the cost. I would be curious to hear from someone who has modded a BB pedal to see how they like it, and if they have ever compared the two.

I just searched YouTube, thinking there must be a clip of someone comparing the two, but I didn't find anything.

That's the odd thing about the original Marshall pedals - highly revered (generally), but most seem to have disappeared.

The Dano Daddy-O is a direct lift of the venerable Marshall Guv'nor.

Even Marshall has altered the spec's on the latest issues of the BB, Guv'nor, et al.

If you're used to looking at pedal schematics, you can see that the BluesBreaker really holds the most promise, especially when compared to TS type pedals, and Dist +/DOD OD 250/Rat pedals, IMO. You can get a really light drive that sounds good, and it stays pretty clear as you turn up the drive. The KoT adds on this foundation - you get different clipping options and expanded tone control.

General Guitar Gadgets has nice BluesBreaker kits that are fairly true to the original design.

The revolutiondeux website contains the info necessary to transform the GGG BB clone into a KoT.

Saying the KOT = MBB is like saying most of the ODs out there = TS.

So all we need in life is a MBB & a TS to have all the OD bases covered huh?

Don't think so. Yes, alot of products are based on alot of other products, but they are generally "better mousetraps." I don't think anyone will argue Mike built a "better Bluesbreaker" or Fuller built a "better Tubescreamer." Just because they started with another design doesn't invalidate the improvements/additions they made.

I don't know why everybody loves JTM45s so much... all it is is a Bassman copy... :roll:

I don't know why everybody loves JTM45s so much... all it is is a Bassman copy... :roll:
Yeah, but it doesn't take 2 years on a waiting list and 2 or 3x the dollars to get one. Some people are ok with that, I'm not.

Just my two cents, but I didn't take any of that info as a slam at all. I thought it was pretty educational, actually. But remember, it's usually the extra 15% that makes all the difference!
Especially for those of us who can't solder or build our own pedals.
Again, just my two cents.


Agreed. I found it informative too. What we really have here is a little "thread sheparding." That's cool. It's good to care, and to be positive.

Just because they started with another design doesn't invalidate the improvements/additions they made.

No, it certainly doesn't invalidate their contributions to the foundational design. On the contrary. We can't reinvent the wheel, but we can make it roll better.:razz:

My "gripe" (for lack of a better term) is that the marketing for many of these pedals is that it's something completely different from anything that's out there, when it's really resting firmly on the shoulders of a previous design. I understand that these guys want their pedals to stand out, but they don't have to dismiss the roots of the original design to do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with paying homage to good designs. And a well tweaked clone by any name will be loved and sought out by guitarists.

Pedal builders are in a semi-unique advantageous position where you can't tell the true nature of their wares due to the fact that the answers lie within that little box. Guitar clones, tweed clones, Marshall clones, even replacement pickups usually have visual clues galore.

I certainly won't argue that Mike built a better MBB, that Fuller built a better TS (actually, his design borrows much more from the Boss SD-1), that Fuller built a better Voodoo Labs Overdrive. But have you heard them state this? Why do you think they haven't?

that Fuller built a better TS (actually, his design borrows much more from the Boss SD-1), . But have you heard them state this? Why do you think they haven't?

Whoops... SD-1... right...I knew that. Forgot. :razz:

I guess the same reason Marshall never called the JTM45 an "upgraded Bassman"... just marketing. Marketing runs product sales. And Mike & Fuller certainly don't have a patent on "creative marketing".

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you're saying. I waited 2 years for a KOT, and I think it's great, but I rarely use it... I'm just moving away from pedal overdrives. But of the scores of ODs I've tried, I do think it's one of the best. And I can say the 2 years was "worth the wait", but I can also say I would never wait 2 years for anything again. It just doesn't matter that much. (what I mean is, nothing matters enough to wait 2 years for it). But hey- if someone wants one of the best 2-channel ODs out there, I can wholeheartedly say "it's worth the wait", or "it's worth whatever inflated price you're willing to pay on ebay." Same logic applies to the Klon- talk about over-hyped... original design or not, uber-over-hyped. NOTHING is THAT good. Nothing.


This whole argument of "I don't like the way they market their product" reminds me of the "I don't like the music that station plays" argument. Don't try to make the station change, change the station.

I was disucssing this thread with a friend of mine and he pointed out that a lot of Mike's pedals are based on other pedals. He makes it very clear on his website that the Beano Boost is based on a Dallas Rangemaster - he has compressors based on an old Ross Comp, another based on a DA Orange Squeezer. I know Mike, and although I've never asked him about this, I would assume, if the KOT was derieved from a BB, he would have said so right from the beginning.

This whole argument of "I don't like the way they market their product" reminds me of the "I don't like the music that station plays" argument. Don't try to make the station change, change the station.

In most cases, I would agree with you.

In this specific case, the marketing tends to throw off prospective buyers, or even try to conceal some facts. Nothing illegal, but definitely requires a moral gut check before committing to such marketing. Obviously, AM, Fuller, et al either have no qualms, or got past them. But this is a change of tact, since other pedals were clearly marketed as clones - the Sun Face, '69, '70, SoulBender, etc. Maybe it only applies to fuzzes:?:

If someone took an '08 Mustang GT (MSRP 26K), took off the body, put their own on, added a few more features, and charged $162,500 for it, would you just "change the station" without blinking? Would you at least take pause? FWIW, a used BB on eBay usually fetches about $80. A GGG clone is about the same once you add in shipping and the time to assemble one. A KoT on eBay will typically cost you $500 or more...

Despite all of these pedals being either pretty good or really good, I still think that David Hannum (NOT P.T. Barnum) really got it right, concerning marketing, customers, et al.

I would assume, if the KOT was derieved from a BB, he would have said so right from the beginning.

Well, then THERE's the challenge - find us a quote or other proof that Mike has clearly divulged such info, easily accessed by any potential customer, and that will basically put this conundrum to bed!

If someone took an '08 Mustang GT (MSRP 26K), took off the body, put their own on, added a few more features, and charged $162,500 for it, would you just "change the station" without blinking?


Yes, yes I would... by not buying it. That's all. I wouldn't climb the nearest sopabox to deride his business priciples, I would simply not give him my business. However, people want what they want, and they'll pay what they're willing to pay, and they'll wait. Music gear is BASED on this principle. If the world was "your way", Matchless & Badcat (along with MANY other boutique builders) would have been out of business a long time ago... for copying the venerable Vox AC30. I don't see where it matters or not if Matchless & Badcat ADMIT to the AC30 being the "inspiration" or not. People like, want, are willing to wait for, and are willing to PAY$$$ for Badcats & Matchless. They couldn't give a hang whether it's simply an "upgraded AC30" or not. Way of the world.

If the world was "your way", Matchless & Badcat (along with MANY other boutique builders) would have been out of business a long time ago... for copying the venerable Vox AC30.

Please elaborate on what you mean by "my way"?

Matchless, Bad Cat, Z, Allen, Metro Amps, Victoria, etc. etc. are all quite clear concerning their inspirations. And that's done "their way." I like "their way." I like Analogman's way too, when I don't feel like I'm getting the ol' bait and switch.

I would appreciate an explanation of how providing some facts is climbing a soapbox or deriding principles. I would suggest that it's healthy debate, and something that should be asked, that at least some folks should be curious about. It isn't written anywhere that being a passive consumer is appropriate or best.

Your "pay and wait" modus operandi for the average musician is presumptive at best, I'm sorry to say. And even if it did apply at one time, I'm not so sure it does any more. Why else the surprised replies from musicians right here that it isn't the only road to take?

You're absolutely right - the average Joe doesn't really give a toss if his Cornford is a total lift of some other design. Heck - for what some folks are willing to pony up, I'd expect some of them want a dead-on clone!

But basic economics 101 - a consumer is always looking for a good deal. Notice I didn't say a low price. But a good deal is a combination of things, and more often than not does not include the passive "pay and wait" shopping strategy.

It's the 21st century - you can get handcrafted goods from halfway around the world in a week or less, check inventory globally, get in touch with folks who will build you something in a timely fashion, or customize it your way. "Pay and wait" may still prevail to some degree today, but I wouldn't invest in companies that are banking on it.

The reason that I brought this up in the first place is that I've come across a few KoT owners who are relatively shocked that their pedal isn't a unique design. It's seems that they give a toss - especially after waiting 700+ days. It might just be a handy thing to know up front, wouldn't it?

One point regarding "pay and wait" - I've ordered a KOT, a Timmy and a Zen Drive, and had to wait for all of them, but none of them required payment until the pedal was ready to be shipped. I was going to order a Klon, and he required payment up front. I didn't order it.

If I may throw another thought out there - Mike's website tells the story of how the KOT came to be. Again, bringing up the point that he also details the original pedals his others are based on, it seems strange that he wouldn't do the same with the KOT if it were based on the BB. (Which leads me to think it isn't)

There's a year wait for his mini-bicomp, but I've never seen a thread about people saying "all it is a ________ with some mods". It almost seems like this is "the second gunman in the grassy knoll" of effects pedals. :lol:

If I may throw another thought out there - Mike's website tells the story of how the KOT came to be. Again, bringing up the point that he also details the original pedals his others are based on, it seems strange that he wouldn't do the same with the KOT if it were based on the BB.

The schematic presented upon my blog is taken from an actual reverse engineered KOT - It has been verified by several KOT owners (Who are pretty well versed in stompbox construction)... As you can see it is based well and truly upon the old Marshall BB. It's a great sounding stompbox, you get two in one box and the build quality is good, nuff said...

As many have said themselves in this thread - the only problem I have with many of these boxes is the "smoke and mirrors" advertising and the incessent "Gooping" of stompbox circuits which makes self service/modification and repair impossible - one of the main factors I would look for in a stompbox (Living in the UK there would be no way I would buy, say, a lovepedal to have it break down and have to ship it back just for a simple repair I could have done in 15mins myself had it's circuit board not been covered in black epoxy!)

Again, bringing up the point that he also details the original pedals his others are based on, it seems strange that he wouldn't do the same with the KOT if it were based on the BB.


I don't understand it, either. Almost all of them (Fuller, AM, PE, WH) were up front for the longest time, but something has changed.

Mike is very clear to state that the KoT is an alternative to the 808 tone, that it's nothing like a TS, it was built to complement a TS, etc. He's also very clear about his modded BD-2 and how it sounds nothing like a TS - maybe there was too much overlap there, and he didn't want to "devalue the king" by revealing it's origins? Just a wild guess...

I think that both Fuller and AM clearly know that in order for your new designs to stand out, they can't be equated with a pedal that has no current buzz going on. If the OCD was marketed as a "Voodoo Labs Overdrive on steroids," it may have died out early on. Instead, we got this:

"PEDALS (until now) just can't hold a candle to what a good amp can do if you are really picky. You not only lose all the touch sensitivity, but forget about those complex Harmonics. (For me) It's always been somewhat of a compromise using Overdrive pedals... until now. Ladies and Gentleman, I am proud to introduce the Fulltone OCD. I made this pedal for me, but I think you might like it too.."

So, he made it for himself? Until now? What about Voodoo Labs? By adding a pair of mosfets as clippers and a LPF/HPF tone control, he converted a 10+ year old design into a tube amp in a box?

Part of the problem seems to be that the new breed are based on designs that haven't achieved mythological status. Folks have played around with a BB, a VLO, numerous TS clones, etc. but if it isn't an 808, a Fuzz Face, a Rangemaster, a Ross compressor, etc. - it isn't legendary. Why be tied to a pedal with a tepid history? Just make no mention of it at all!

Hi Briggs - Welcome to the TDPRI!!!

11 Guage - Interesting point about the "mythological status". Do you think these discussions (KOT/BB) are, or will push the original BB's into that category?

I just checked Ebay and TGP and didn't find any for sale. There are a few "New" ones, but I have read that they don't compare to the originals.
Would the original BB be considered a rare pedal at this point? I don't know anything about them, or for how long they were made. When did they stop making them?

Hi,

It's funny, I don't mind this conversation at all. I own one of the pedals and love it. The fact that its based on a Marshall Blues Breaker Pedal Circuit doesn't de-value it in my mind. I think I had heard this before I purchased one.

I suppose I felt I was paying for craftsmenship, component tweaking to package product in a convenient format. It would be nice to hear a head-to-head comparison. Is my Valley Arts Guitar original?

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/537/medium/LC_Std_Front.jpg

Of course not. Its and Tele-Strat-o-Paul. Its beautifully made and sounds great. I guess I have always assumed that most items were evolutionary and not reveolutonary. Marketing is using the later.

I still use my tubescreamer when I want a more midrangey thing. But the KoT is really is a great OD pedal and boost (my favorite). It is also a fair value at its current price IMO.

I would love to see a head to head with the original.

My $.02,

Bob

When did they stop making them?

Helllooo there, I believe it was late eightys - early nineties. I have a shredmaster, I bought it for £20 used around 4-5 years ago. Sounds like a RAT on steriods, sounded even better with a few mods to tighten the bass responce. I also got a few colorsound wahs for £25! I wish the pedal world was the same as 5 years ago!

EDIT: A well made box is a well made box, that's the end of it. Market demand sets the asking price...

[QUOTE=11 Gauge;1350062]

FWIW, a used BB on eBay usually fetches about $80. A GGG clone is about the same once you add in shipping and the time to assemble one. A KoT on eBay will typically cost you $500 or more...
[QUOTE]

The price for a version 4 KOT is $235, you have a long wait, which is clearly noted. Your note above I find to be very misleading, implying he is a huckster charging people 5 times what something is worth. In reality his price is in line with your used BB ebay prices considering that it is two pedals in one, very high quality, and brand new.

eBay silliness is not anyone's fault, but it does have a very REAL affect regarding supply and demand, that is amplified when a vendor gets backed up.

If AM is backed up for 24 months with KoT orders, it would be ridiculous to think that ones on eBay would be the same price as ones direct from AM.

This gets worse when a boutiquer folds, like WHE did. I'm actually glad to hear that they're back in business.

To consider Mike a huckster is quite a leap - I don't know how you got to that conclusion. Too many cause-and-effect ripples by the time something gets to eBay, CraigsList, what have you.

Bottom line - if I wanted a BB or KoT in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. via eBay), those are the realio dealio prices - I just checked today!

Once again - we now live in a world where "pay and wait" is not the only way.

Allow me to reiterate my bottom line - Not every guitarist is in a situation to pay and wait for a KoT, but many would like to have something similar, if possible. It is possible. Buy a couple of BB clones and have someone put them in one box, and add AM's handful of changes.

For those of you who can wait or can score the real deal off of eBay or elsewhere - fantastic!

There's more than one option, here.

This is pretty funny. I never gooped the circuit and I never said what it was based on (and still won't, though it's a funny story), just that it was not a tubescreamer clone. That gave me some time to get them going before all the Kopycats made similar pedals.

Ebay Item number: 110270051795 and 260263746473 are the only two recent completed BBs and sold for over $100. I have seen original BBs for a lot more that that. And of course one of those won't sound or work like the KoT anyway... Someone should arrest me for charging $235 for the KoT (which you can sell on ebay for $400 if you don't like it).

Nobody has said the KoT doesn't sound great, the main pedal jihad guy in this thread who is trying to save all you clueless people from buying this ripoff even claimed it had unique features and sounded great, that the BB is a much better platform than a TS or OS250.

When the pedal pirates posted the great news, my waiting list continued to grow from 1.5 years to close to two years. So I guess they didn't accomplish what they wanted. But maybe they learned a thing or two about getting good tone, and about a chip and diodes that no other builder had ever used in an OD box. Or someone else must have, as I'm just a cloner.

Have fun and make music!

- Huckster

ps. you really want to hate analogman?
Yesterday I went to Rumble Street Music with Jim Weider and he brought home a GIBSON guitar!!! And we played a '59 Burst and both fell in love...

Thanks for chiming in Mike!

Ebay Item number: 110270051795 and 260263746473 are the only two recent completed BBs and sold for over $100. I have seen original BBs for a lot more that that. And of course one of those won't sound or work like the KoT anyway...

So this is an indirect way of saying that the KoT is not at all based on a BB?

I have a feeling that if there is any response, it will be just as confuscious-esque as the last response.

Uh...thanks for clearing things up:roll:

Welcome!

love the phrase! I think that kind of sums it up...

But maybe they learned a thing or two about getting good tone, and about a chip and diodes that no other builder had ever used in an OD box.

The chip - JRC4580D (that's ONE D)

The diodes - 4 MA856 and 2 1S1588 (Matsu****a/Panasonic/Toshiba/etc.)

Mike's background is in software engineering, hence his slant for using the odd semiconductor choices above. They're not available at your local Rat Shack, but they aren't completely unobtanium either. It helps if you can read websites in japanese...:wink:

Put those in a GGG BB clone, cut 3 traces, wire up the dip switches, jumper a cap and resistor, change the value of 4 components, one additional cap and resistor, and a pot for the treble control...

This will get you 1/2 of a KoT (V4) for under a C note. If you want to take a year to build this first half, that's up to you.:lol: If you need the other half, you've got another 12 months to burn. You can expand your Jim Weider collection with the bones you have left over.

Aren't options great? Mike may speak in riddles, but he leaves a pretty decent trail of breadcrumbs for us cavemen.:wink:

So let me make sure that I follow you.

Find two BB Pedals like the ones that Mike referenced for ~$225 for both (plus shipping). Buy the chips, diodes and gear you (you supply the price with shipping). Now invest your time to modify the units. Now purchase a 6" cable to put them in Series and two 9v connection cables. Now its time to find the extra room on your pedalboard that you will need.

Personally, I'd rather use the time to play and wait for one from Mike OR just buy one on ebay.

My $.02

Bob

P.S.

Why don't you do as you suggest and perform a head-to-head

Personally, I'd rather use the time to play and wait for one from Mike OR just buy one on ebay.


Exactly. This is the way the world works. I'm a home improvement contractor. I build a new kitchen for somebody, it's gonna' cost more than if they did it themselves. Will it be a "different" kitchen? Not by much. Will mine have better workmanship? Almost certainly. But I'm not doing anything that the homeowner themselves couldn't do if they wanted to. But the difference is my EXPERIENCE. And that I am doing it. I don't work for free.

A contractor friend told me one time that a customer wanted a breakdown of labor & materials to the dollar. His answer was "5% Materials, 95% experience." If you want to get off on the cheap, do it yourself. Otherwise, knowledge, experience, labor, and overhead to run a business costs MONEY.

Do you argue with Wal-Mart for charging $5.99 for a t-shirt they only paid $0.50 for, or that you could make for $2.50 if you did it yourself? Or do you BUY THE T-SHIRT?

So let me make sure that I follow you.

Find two BB Pedals like the ones that Mike referenced for ~$225 for both (plus shipping). Buy the chips, diodes and gear you (you supply the price with shipping). Now invest your time to modify the units. Now purchase a 6" cable to put them in Series and two 9v connection cables. Now its time to find the extra room on your pedalboard that you will need.

Personally, I'd rather use the time to play and wait for one from Mike OR just buy one on ebay.

My $.02

Bob

P.S.

Why don't you do as you suggest and perform a head-to-head

11 gague is not suggesting you buy a real BB on ebay, he's suggesting you buy this (No affiliation):

MBB Clone (http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=139&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=45)

Or, actually, two of these... And then do the other mods.

I for one think this is pretty interesting information.

Notice that AnalogMike did not refute 11g's main contention (he did resort to some pretty hilarious name-calling, though). If 11 gague is wrong, why wouldn't he just come out and say it?

There are a ton of valid reasons to buy a KoT, and tons of valid resons to bulid a couple of modded MBBs. Neither is right or wrong, but I for one appreciate knowing the truth (until and unless AnalogMike provides a different and equally convincing version)

I guess that more elaboration is in order...

As Mike himself has indicated, he and others are in a constant struggle to stay one step ahead of pedal hackers.

It's easier to take an existing design and tweak it than it is to come up with a Klon Centaur, Blackstone Appliances Mosfet Overdrive, or Tech 21 SanSamp. The KoT is in a gray area, since the chip and diodes are new to the pedal, which Mike was clear about.

So what's a boutique builder to do? Throw the hackers off the trail, release a little misinformation, be vague, use parts that haven't been used before (but aren't so different as to cause an adverse response).

It became very clear to me yesterday that such are the reasons for Mike's nebulous responses regarding any connection to the Bluesbreaker.

I'm just trying to offer information on what the KoT is, and how you can get at least a half of one in less than 24 months. I also attempted to explain early in this thread why it doesn't sound like a TS. I don't like long waits for gear, and figured there might be others. The BB (original ver. 1) is a great pedal, even in stock form, IMO. While the TL072 chip is anything but the latest craze, it's still my personal favorite.

AM's offering is one option, and a very nice one. He's not a huckster, and he isn't ripping anyone off. If his behavior seemed odd, it's because he's got to protect his business.

Unless you're building a pedal with tons of logic or components that like to misbehave, it really isn't rocket science. That isn't to say that it's not without it's hurdles though - hence the long wait for the KoT.

There are also some current trends with boutique pedals - high end audio chips is one of them. The KoT uses one, lots of other guys are stuffing Burr Brown chips in TS variants, and there are ultra low noise chips out there, as well. It really depends on what direction you're coming from regarding the chip - some guys can't stand how sanitized some of the HEA chips sound. Another current trend - two pedals in one. Lotsa guys don't like a pedalboard that weighs more than a Twin Reverb. There is also a constant struggle to come up with different combinations of clipping diodes - since their switching current is fixed, you have to resort to different ones to get a threshold that you are happy with. Some builders are trying to eliminate diodes altogether, but this is also difficult for them, in many cases.

If there wasn't a two year wait (or no one seemed to have a problem with it), or if the circuit was 100% unique (like the Klon Centaur), I probably wouldn't have thrown out another option. It certainly wouldn't hurt AM's business - he's good for at least the next 2 years. And Mike's indicated the contrary - the wait is getting longer.

If my findings are inconvenient or unpleasant, I do apologize for that.

or if the circuit was 100% unique (like the Klon Centaur),
.


Anyone know when the Maxon OD-820 was originally introduced? It's designed alot like a Klon. Actually, the VL Sparkle Drive is also similar with it's clean blend knob. I wonder when it was first introduced?

Just curious: how many variations of the internal combustion engine are there and who are all the engine producers of today "ripping off"?

No small part of engineering is design. I have a Mini Bi-Comp which is two cloned circuits in one pedal. But if you open that little marvel you see a sublimely designed pedal.

Sure, the KoT may be based off of something that came before. Or maybe, as AM seems to suggest, it was based off of another pedal that eventually morphed into something that more closely resembles a Blues Breaker. Only Mike knows. The funny thing is that so many are so quick to dismiss the development -- not to mention its technically sublime design -- once they figured out what it resembles.

It's like saying that {pick your favorite novel} is just as copy because it uses familiar plot structures and characters. How many time was story of Romeo and Juliet written? Are they all the quality of Shakespeare?

Only Mike knows.

No - anyone who's analyzed both circuits knows the facts.

Even Mike pointed out the superior qualities of the Bluesbreaker, versus all other op amp designs. He also said that he used a new chip and diodes. He did not, and will likely never directly say that his design is based off the Bluesbreaker.

Here is a schematic of each. There are some errors in the KoT schematic (it was reverse engineered), but it allows for one to decide for themselves if the KoT is or is not derived from a Bluesbreaker.

Also - Mike mentioned the use of different chip and diodes - here's how they stack up w/BB vs. KoT:

Bluesbreaker chip (TL072):

gain bandwidth product - 4 MHz (typ.)
distortion - .003% (typ.)
slew rate - 13V/microsecond (typ.)

KoT chip (JRC4580D):

gain bandwidth product - 15 MHz (typ.)
distortion - .0005% (typ.)
slew rate - 5V/microsecond (typ.)

What this means in layman's terms - the KoT chip is much lower distortion, i.e. it's not going to contribute to the pedal's overdrive characteristics as much as the BB's chip will. The chip is almost a necessity if the BB circuit is to be modified for clean boost purposes.

Bluesbreaker diodes:

2 1N148 clipping pairs in 2nd gain stage negative feedback loop

1N148 forward current - 300 mA

KoT diodes:

2 MA856 clipping pairs in 2nd gain stage negative feedback loop

MA856 forward current - 100 mA

What this means in layman's terms - the clipping threshold for the KoT is much lower than the BB, i.e. the diodes switch on much faster. This allows for greater compression and softer clipping characteristics.

Additional KoT diodes:

2 1S1588 crossover distortion diodes placed parallel with BB tone circuit

1S1588 forward current - 120 mA

What this means in layman's terms - crossover distortion diodes were typically found in stompboxes and solid state amps in the 80's, such as the DOD Thrashmaster, American Metal, etc. They were used to provide an approximation of tube amp distortion. A low forward current is a necessity when used in this configuration. The standard diodes used by DOD, Crate, etc. were 1N34A germaniums, which have a slightly higher forward current.

So, to summarize:

It appears that the BB circuit was chosen for it's already very soft and light clipping. However, to make it work as a clean boost, a lower distortion chip was needed/desired. Hence the substitution of the JRC4580D. The higher fidelity chip almost in itself requires different clipping diodes - the switching rate of 1N148's will most likely sound buzzy with the chip swap. 1N34A germaniums would probably be adequate, but MA856's would be better. And to increase the soft clipping, the BB circuit would benefit from optional crossover distortion diode clipping, but very soft clipping is desired, so 1S1588's were chosen over 1N34A germaniums.

I guess that more elaboration is in order...
.

Why? you've made your point many, many times...:roll:

Nobody has said the KoT doesn't sound great, the main pedal jihad guy in this thread who is trying to save all you clueless people from buying this ripoff even claimed it had unique features and sounded great, that the BB is a much better platform than a TS or OS250.

When the pedal pirates posted the great news, my waiting list continued to grow from 1.5 years to close to two years. So I guess they didn't accomplish what they wanted. But maybe they learned a thing or two about getting good tone, and about a chip and diodes that no other builder had ever used in an OD box. Or someone else must have, as I'm just a cloner.

I'm not sure anyone ever tried to actively stop people from buying any analogman product. I think "Pedal Jihad Guy" (Although I'd rather not be associated with any form of religious conflict, I'm an atheist ;-) ) is going a bit far, surely if it was a "Jihad" I would want to destroy you, I do not. I just post info that is open to the public on my blog. No hidden adjenda or "Jihad" or "Crusade", I believe those to be tools of the paranoid. As long as a few people see through all the "Smoke and Mirror" marketing that flys around the booteek industry these days, I'm happy. No one likes being sold a trout when they thought they were getting salmon, it leaves a muddy taste in your mouth.

I have repeatedly said the KoT, direct from yourself, is a good deal - two ODs in one box with a fine build quality at a decent price. Your one problem is waiting time...

Another point your post raises: That reverse engineering a pedal and posting the schematics does not impact (in a negative form) upon the sales figures of that pedal. So we can finally rid ourselves of that ridiculous argument for good.

I've said it several times: A good pedal is a good pedal, it is worth more than a poor pedal and will hold it's value relative to that. The terms "good" and "poor" are subject to opinion and many factors that are outside the control of a singular human.

Anyway, back to my Chips and Salmon...

Or is it Trout?

8-)

I'm on the list for a KOT. Been there for maybe 6 months...got a while to go :) I may not even get it when my name comes up however. I used to use a TIM as my overdrive but the last amp I bought (DR Z Carmen Ghia) pretty much eliminated my need for a pedal that adds drive. I still use the TIM as a clean boost, which it is fantastic at but I also have an RC booster on my board. The TIM can get just a little louder than the RC so I use both for different things. With a KOT however, I'm not sure I'll really need 4 clean boosters on my board :)

OT Warning!

Romo: How do you find the Carmen Ghia's tone control? I'm experimenting with different tone controls in a new build of mine and have been eying up the Carmen's. How do you find it reacts to changes in guitar/pickups?

OT Warning!

Romo: How do you find the Carmen Ghia's tone control? I'm experimenting with different tone controls in a new build of mine and have been eying up the Carmen's. How do you find it reacts to changes in guitar/pickups?

I think its a great tone control. It offers a wide variety of tones...not just rolling off the treble. I find it is really easy to switch guitars with this amp. My tele sounds really big and fat but with plenty of twang at about 1:00 o'clock. Grab the Les Paul and roll the tone back to 11:00 o'clock or so and I've got that thick classic rock kind of LP tone. Despite looking so simple, the CG has a pretty diverse set of tones available. Good luck with your build!

I think "Pedal Jihad Guy" (Although I'd rather not be associated with any form of religious conflict, I'm an atheist ;-) ) is going a bit far, surely if it was a "Jihad" I would want to destroy you, I do not. I just post info that is open to the public on my blog. No hidden adjenda or "Jihad" or "Crusade", I believe those to be tools of the paranoid.

You're the "P.J.G."? I can't actually repeat it (see some of the TDPRI rules below), but I thought that Mike meant me.

I suggest you don't mention it again, since it's breaking the rules. Mike did it three times, but he may get carte blanche, IDK. Maybe action was taken about his "colorful" remarks, but I doubt it.

Either way, in the rules, it says to ignore attacks. Since you're new, I thought I'd reiterate it.

(some) TDPRI POSTING RULES -

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS:
When someone says something you don't agree with don't turn on them and attack them personally. Don't call people names.

COMMERCIAL DEALERS:
You cannot use the TDPRI to discuss your products, your pricing, your delivery schedule or anything pertaining to your commercial operation in posts on the TDPRI. Others may talk about your products... but you are prohibited from doing so.

OFF LIMIT SUBJECTS:
Some subjects cause nothing but trouble, so no posting about:
1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Sex (including improper photos or videos)
4. Drugs
5. Smoking (laws, health or anything)

Just FYI - it may seem okay since Mike did it, but it isn't.

Oh, sorry guys. It was a simple explanation. No attacking going on.

There are a few threads over at a certain forum, that will explain the point better here she is (http://www.freestompboxes.org) :cool: Searching around there will bring light onto the subject.

I think its a great tone control. It offers a wide variety of tones...not just rolling off the treble. I find it is really easy to switch guitars with this amp. My tele sounds really big and fat but with plenty of twang at about 1:00 o'clock. Grab the Les Paul and roll the tone back to 11:00 o'clock or so and I've got that thick classic rock kind of LP tone. Despite looking so simple, the CG has a pretty diverse set of tones available. Good luck with your build!

Cheers, I'm looking forward to it :grin:

Anyone know when the Maxon OD-820 was originally introduced? It's designed alot like a Klon. Actually, the VL Sparkle Drive is also similar with it's clean blend knob. I wonder when it was first introduced?

IDK when the OD-820 was intro'd, but Bill Finnegan has stated for the record that it is nothing like a Centaur, and is actually (in his opinion) Maxon's attempt to lure buyers away by marketing it as such.

I believe that the Sparkle Drive debut was in the later 90's. The SD is mainly a TS clone with the add'l feature of allowing you to blend the TS signal with a bypassed one.

Pedals such as the Fulldrive, Sparkle Drive, and VS Jeckyl and Hyde were the beginning of a trend to use a standard OD circuit and add in switchable features. The two-in-one trend has gotten much more popular in the last few years.

The Centaur is truly unique. It isn't based on any other pedal, at all. From analyzing the circuit, it appears that the intention was to split the signal into discrete circuit paths, where they could be optimized tonally, and gain-wise. It looks like Bill was targeting certain bandpassed frequencies to be clipped, and not others. A very crude analysis, but basically just trying to say that the Centaur is a unique one - not based on anything else at all.

Guys, when it comes to moderating you need to keep in mind that not every post -- 1,500 per day -- gets read. Unless someone complains about the post.

Surprise, someone did complain about this post.

About the Pedal Jihad thing... yes, that's not good, but we're not going to edit every silly comment made. And, it's not considered religious discussion to say that. It's considered political. That is why it's bad.

Lastly AnalogMike doesn't get a pass, but like everyone here he gets some opportunity to respond in a non-sales talk way. Which he has done.

Chill people. Someone posted a YEAR AGO about a pedal they like. Lots of other folks like it too.

You don't like it, or how it's marketed, fine say so. But come on... there is OR should be a limit. Other than that its just arguing.

You don't like it, or how it's marketed, fine say so.

I do actually like it (I like the original BB V1 for obvious similar reasons).

I'm torn as far as the marketing goes, kind of a gray area. But I can see why Mike would be vague, now that he's gotten his say so. I tried to elaborate on my feelings regarding this. I was more interested in sharing than arguing, but can see how it's derailed into the latter, and I attempted to apologize.

I think that AM's price is fine, too. And I understand that he has no control over eBay.

I don't like the wait. That's why I was looking for options. When I found out the basis of the KoT (from my perception), I felt compelled to share this info.

Sorry for contributing to argument.

And hey, we all know the best OD tones come from getting your tube amp and sticking the gain knob to 11 now don't we ;)

It all comes down to this- no politics, religion, law, etc, it's about enjoying music, that's what the KoT is about :

rkzYWV8HJTw

And hey, we all know the best OD tones come from getting your tube amp and sticking the gain knob to 11 now don't we ;)

I'm so glad that your statement is false. I also appreciate your humor.:mrgreen:

I see lots of local acts where the gear is basically a Highway One Tele or Strat, a DRRI, and a stock Bad Monkey. The DRRI is only ~20 watts, but if you cranked that thing, the sound man or pub owner would have your head...

That's the beauty of any guitar rig - there are many paths that eventually lead to the same destination.

That's the beauty of any guitar rig - there are many paths that eventually lead to the same destination.

Practice. And understanding what does what.

It took me months to work out the difference between an overdrive and a distortion! I look at it like this, a claw head hammer - one end used for hammering one end for pulling out nails. One side cannot effectively do the job of the other. It's all part of the same hammer but you gotta know what piece to use for what job.

one end used for hammering one end for pulling out nails.

Naw, man...

You just pound the snot out of the nails until you drive them completely through the drywall.:twisted:

Finesse is so overrated.:lol:

A great OD can be tweaked for distortion duties, and a distortion with enough attenuation in the right spots makes for a great OD...

Sometimes it's as simple as relocating the diodes.

I just took a Drivetrain II this evening and yanked out all of the caps. I replaced them with values that were 15% higher, or 30% lower. When I fired it up on the bench, it sounded great the first time - go figure. It was supposed to be a project for someone else (he wants his Fulldrive off of his pedalboard), but I don't think I can part with it now...

Well this is a great thread.

We all need to live and let live. We can never please everyones standards, desires and wants.

The bottom line is if you like it and you make good music from owning a KOT pedal then all the other issues are irrelevant.

I have ordered my KOT and I will just wait like everyone else.

Thank you to Analogman for even creating the pedal in the first place!

How much time did you put into getting this pedal up to this stage Mike?

Peace.

Well, What have we learned, someone does not like to wait 2 years for a pedal. Analog Mike has a very small shop and is involved in a lot of his own pedal making, if he wanted to do things differently and put the KOt on MF like Keeley did with his compressor, he would have to greatly change his operation, but he wants to do it the right way, it takes longer- ONE thing I will say about Mike in dealing with him this year in a review situation, is that he does not diss other's products and he is upfront and honest, And he makes a lot of great pedals
JIm

No one likes being sold a trout when they thought they were getting salmon, it leaves a muddy taste in your mouth.

Anyway, back to my Chips and Salmon...

Or is it Trout?

8-)

I just read this and had to laugh. Salmon and Trout are from the same family, Salmoninae.

Kinda like a Strat and a Tele...same family, different specie, all good. ;)

Wow...Im amazed to see that this thread is still going...

All the talk aside, the KoT is still on my board and running strong and FWIW, I have another one comming soon for my grab and go board!

I've gotten quite a few killer dirt boxes since getting my KoT...Box of Rock, Blackstone Mosfet OD, etc but the KoT keeps holding strong at the top for me!

I guess I'll extend this silly thread a little longer. My KOT was with the mailman TODAY on my porch but since I wasn't home it's on it's way back to the post office. SON OF A!!! Well, it's been two years. What's another 24 hours? I could care less whether this pedal is based off of your grandpa's ham radio, all I know is tomorrow the neighbors are going to get a dose of Vibrolux and Winnie Brat juiced up with some KOT. I'm sure they'll agree it was worth the wait.

A 2+ year wait?!:shock: Yikes!

I just got on the waiting list last week. Looks like my Analogman modified SD-1 / Fulltone Fulldrive 2 will have to tide me over...

And I'm impatient on a 2-3 week wait for a Wampler Ego compressor
J