I just had to buy it :)

Stoped by the local music store monday. Mostly just to dream away some hours. Ended up with me driving away with this in my car :neutral:

http://www.musicstoreinc.com/inventory/pics/svt610hlf.jpg

Monday I just took it home to test it, for fun, with the rest of the band... Today I went back and payed for it... :oops:

It's a Ampeg SVT 610

I've been looking to go with a 6X10, but don't need it now that the summer (outdoor gig) season is winding down. I had the SVT HLF610, the Bergantino HV610 and the SWR Goliath Senior on my short list. I kind of eliminated the Ampeg due to some criticism at TalkBass. They seem to really love the Berg, but I'd like as many opinions as possible, at least before spring :sad: . Anybody else feel free, just keep it about 6X10 cabs please.

Save your $ and get an Avatar 2 x 12 or 4 x 10..Or for what that cost you could get both..and they sound killer

Bluesbob: What did they say at TalkBass?

There are significant design differences between the Berg NV610 and the 'peg. The Ampeg is ported and had s a tweeter. That makes it a broader frequency range cabinet. For some of us - myself included, that isn't a good thing. The Berg is closer to the classic 70's SVT bin. That cab is sealed with no tweeter. A big part of the appeal of that cab and of the NV610 is a strong bump in the mid bass 60 to 80 hz coupled with a very smooth roll off in the low's - it's gone way before 40hz - and again in the hi's. at say 5K. It's a real forgiving cabinet. For classic rock or a really freakin' loud blues band the NV-6120 is a killer cab.

I've heard the nv610 a few times at TB get togethers and it's a great cab. Like most of Bergantino's stuff. His HT-322 is my benchmark for broad range cabinets. Nothing better out there that I've heard. It is too big and too heavey for me though... and I don;t really need the low end extension and the uber-crisp tweeter. Still that HT-322 is a marvelous sounding cab.

So the NV-610 addresses the 'classic' crowd and the 610 hlf addresses the more modern crowd.

Another cab available in the EU if you want big volume is the Schroeder 410 or 21012. I run the 410 and it's got the punch of an 8x10 - the impact it can produce is almost silly! The 21012 goes deeper, the 410 is more in the SVT / NV610 realm. Either cab will keep up if not smoke a 610 ... so while it's not a 610 - it's worthy of a look. There is a Manhattan dealer (Matt ?) IIRC - He has a page over at BABP for the Long Islanders among us :wink:

This rig can do a very convincing SVT or it can morph into something more modern sounding. Looks like a 2x10 with a big port - inside the 'port' are 2 'side-firing' 10's so it's a 4x10. Kind of like a 2x10 and tweeter combined with a band pass box. The 21012 has a 12 inside rather than the 2x10. A friend has one fof those and it blew me over so when this one became available I jumped on it. I'm down to 1 gigging rig a this point (from 3) and this one size really does appear to fit all - although were I to show up to my old restaurant/lounge jazz gig with this - I'd get a few looks like wha ?

http://w3.gorge.net/mfbrown/EQS.jpg

Bluesbob: What did they say at TalkBass?
I'm not Bluesbob but I read a big thread at Talkbass that got out of hand.

LOUD Technologies, the parent of Mackie, bought St. Louis Music (Ampeg, Crate, Alvarez). Almost everyone seems to agree that service has suffered, at least in the transition. That's a legimate criticism, assuming it's true.

Ampeg and Crate were getting creamed by the competition in most price ranges and its owners couldn't have survived without either moving production to Asia or selling to someone else who would. So they sold to LOUD who took Ampeg's manufacturing from the US to China. Unfortunately that just provoked hysterical responses about "corporate greed" from imbeciles who would rather Ampeg be Made In America and go out of business than move to China and survive.

The ironic thing is that the real Ampeg went bankrupt 20 years ago, and it was saved by being bought out of bankruptcy by St. Louis Music -- which had built its business on importing and selling cheap Asian guitars. Go figure.

Loud has made more than a few missteps in the transition. They basically gutted the engineering and service departments and the New Viet line has been slower to come up than it sounds like they anticipated. I don't see where that would really be an issue with a bought off the floor speaker cab though. Pretty much a cab like that 610 - if it plays loud and doesn't get abused - ought to last a long, long time

I believe the main negative considerations were loudness and tone. I've never heard the Berg, so I can't say anything. There was also some pretty harsh criticism of the Goliath Senior. But that was nothing compared to the putdowns of the Warwick 611. Very tough crowd. So how is it, cold?

I believe the main negative considerations were loudness and tone. I've never heard the Berg, so I can't say anything. There was also some pretty harsh criticism of the Goliath Senior. But that was nothing compared to the putdowns of the Warwick 611. Very tough crowd. So how is it, cold?



Not Cold but - it's a modern sounding cab. If you're expecting classic 'fridge - the 610 isn't it. That's what the NV-610 is for. The 610 hlf is more like a 410 hlf on steroids. Think Vic Wooten as opposed to Bill Wyman.

Played it for one week now, sounds great. I use it for modern rock, and this cab generate just the sound and punch I'm looking for, and it's LOUD!!!
I really love the tweeter also, it "cleans up" the sound nicely!
Had to play a little the EQ and tweeter settings before this cab really hit my sweet spot, but when it did :)

But... As 4mal says, I'm not sure this would be a great choise for the more "classic" rock/blues music.

Blew the tweeter during rehersal tonight :( why? why?? WHY???

Blew the tweeter during rehersal tonight :( why? why?? WHY???

suggestion ... bypass the cross over, run the 10's full range and see what you think. You can always hook up the cross over again if you don't like it. Do remember to tag the wires, eh ?

LET'S ROCK!

You probably know by now that you havent actually blown the tweeter but you have blown the tweeter protection bulb. (This is soldered onto the attenuation switch PCB).

In my experience, a five minute repair job preceeded by a five week wait for the spare bulb to arrive....

LOUD are doing the best they can to keep Ampeg rolling but from my dealings with them, their customer service is poor at best.

All that aside, I used a 610 for my last recordings, using an SVT2 PRO, a Classic and a Boogie Bass 400+ for power.

It performed great with all three heads, it is a touch more refined then the SVT 410 and BSE 410 HLF cabs I've used but was more capable of providing the classic Ampeg Bass sound than the BXT range. (Which you would expect).

I've not read any of the TalkBass threads but I just think that if you think it sounds good then it most likely is.

You probably know by now that you havent actually blown the tweeter but you have blown the tweeter protection bulb. (This is soldered onto the attenuation switch PCB).

I did not understand a word of what you wrote here :oops:

I got a cracking sound in the cab, and it went away when I turned the tweeter off. Ergo(in my head): I blew the tweeter... :confused:

Martini is talking about a speaker protection circuit that shunt's excess voltage into a little light bulb inside that cabinet. The light bulb lights up and 'burn's off the excess energy. Ever see a bass cab with a light that flashes in the port on occaision ? Popular in the 80's and still around. If the bulb breaks or get's cooked, circuit depending the twweter can just go off or stay running but becomes subject to the voltage that cooked the bulb ...

It sounds like the tweeter diaphragm is cooked. It is probably replaceable but you might want to consider upgrading the tweeter instead. Pull the tweet and post a pic. Maybe we can identify it and help you source a replacement - if the Ampeg dealer gives you a hard time ...

Tweeters in bass rig's don't get smoked often - there generally isn't a lot of energy up there - pull the speaker jack plate - the crossover is probably mounted to it - see if it has the bulb and if the bulb is intact. Replace it if it is not ...

I replaced the foster horn in a 2x12 with a mid-hi driver that sounded a lot better to me than the horn a while back. The mid-hi driver is cone based and goes 150hz to 18K! IIRC it's about 5" round. I had to cut a little relief into the cabinet to mount it but the original horn 'flare or flange' would cover the extra size so the cab could appear stock again if necessary.

Thanks for the info 4mal.
But, no I really don't understand anything. I went to the dealer with the cab today. Plugged the cab in, and started to hammer it. The tweeter played like a charm, nothing wrong with it.
I guess it's my amp that is broken then?
hmmm, a new amp = spending more money

hmmm... what are you running for an amp ?

Right now I use the Hartke HA3500, and it's a couple of years old :(

Any suggestions for a new head?
I can get the Ampeg B-4R Solid State for 50% off...

Right now I use the Hartke HA3500, and it's a couple of years old :(

Any suggestions for a new head?
I can get the Ampeg B-4R Solid State for 50% off...


I own a B2R but it's a spare and really - never get's used. Tonally that series is pretty generic sounding. I prefer an amp that brings something to the party. Eden and GK would be viable choices. I'm not personally into them by the MarkBass LM II might be worth a shot. Being made in the EU it might be more available to you and at a better rate than they are over here.

On the other hand, with the US dollar sinking at the moment - your Kroner probably makes US Product look pretty good. The Eden/QSC rig I run is nothing short of amazing to me. It will do a very credible SVT and it will also do a very hifi thing as well. It may be the best preamp/power amp setup that I've ever worked with... I have about a grand USD in that rig. Used pre, used power amp and used rack. Dual voltage as well... although on the Eden it takes some work... you could do it with a lot less power amp than mine too...

Go Markbass. I can put my bass on my back and walk into a gig with a 500Watt stack. That alone, for me, is enough to consign the SVTs of this world to the dustbin of history. They're too big and too heavy. They do sound OK, for most things (not my Telebass), but tonal advantage (if any) is literally outweighed by the convenience and lightness. A big YAY for really nice small SS amps and neodymium speakers!

Go Markbass. I can put my bass on my back and walk into a gig with a 500Watt stack. That alone, for me, is enough to consign the SVTs of this world to the dustbin of history. They're too big and too heavy. They do sound OK, for most things (not my Telebass), but tonal advantage (if any) is literally outweighed by the convenience and lightness. A big YAY for really nice small SS amps and neodymium speakers!

The B series and the SVT series are wholy other kettles of fish ... The MB isn;t going to do the SVT thing - there really isn't much out there that can. I'm not lugging the 40 kilo tube monster around either - but if that's the sound you want. It's close to the only thing out there that can deliver. My Eden / QSC rig get's close with it's tube gain control - not quie sure how they implemented that but it's pretty darned cool. It still isn't quite the visceral experience of the old monster magnet ...

For gig convenience - a smallish SS based rack rig or SS amp is the way to go. In my case I carry the rack rig rather than a small head - that let's me cut an amp out of my PA rack as I can run a sub or extra monitor mix off the spare side of my bass rig. Definately the convenience factor at work there. There are days, the I long for the days, of life prior to PA ...

On the other hand, with the US dollar sinking at the moment - your Kroner probably makes US Product look pretty good...

Good point! If I was interested in a Ampeg amp (tube) what would you recomend? The down side with ordering from the US is that the amps are heavy...

I'd recommend the SVT PRO2 or the SVT Classic.

Yes they do weigh an absolute ton but I'll lug mine while I still can because nothing else comes close for the tone I want.

The Mesa Boogie Bass 400+ is another all tube amp thats worth a look.
I had one as my spare for a couple of years, a more refined tone compared to an Ampeg but still has that big, fat, warm sound that we can only get from all tube amps....it weighs a lot less too.

The other downside with ordering from the states is that you will probably have to run the amp via a stepdown transformer:

US domestic amps run on 110 volts. Europe now runs on 220/240 volts. Some amps have a mains transformer that can be altered so it will run on different voltages but in my experience, most Ampegs are fitted with a one voltage transformer to suit whichever market a particular amp is heading for.

A suitable stepdown tranny is cheaper than replacing the onboard mains tranny but its another thing to lug around. (Transformers are not light....the all tube SVT's are fitted with 3 seperate transformers....hence the weight.)

I'd recommend the SVT PRO2 or the SVT Classic.

Yes they do weigh an absolute ton but I'll lug mine while I still can because nothing else comes close for the tone I want.

The Mesa Boogie Bass 400+ is another all tube amp thats worth a look.
I had one as my spare for a couple of years, a more refined tone compared to an Ampeg but still has that big, fat, warm sound that we can only get from all tube amps....it weighs a lot less too.

The other downside with ordering from the states is that you will probably have to run the amp via a stepdown transformer:

US domestic amps run on 110 volts. Europe now runs on 220/240 volts. Some amps have a mains transformer that can be altered so it will run on different voltages but in my experience, most Ampegs are fitted with a one voltage transformer to suit whichever market a particular amp is heading for.

A suitable stepdown tranny is cheaper than replacing the onboard mains tranny but its another thing to lug around. (Transformers are not light....the all tube SVT's are fitted with 3 seperate transformers....hence the weight.)
Thanks.

The SVT 2 Pro and the SVT CLassic both run 300w. I've also heard great things about theese two, but is 300w enough?? The SVT610 cab has 600w written all over it :rolleyes:

110v vs. 220v is not an issue. I got a friend that makes it run on 220v, for free:wink:

Thanks.

The SVT 2 Pro and the SVT CLassic both run 300w. I've also heard great things about theese two, but is 300w enough?? The SVT610 cab has 600w written all over it :rolleyes:

110v vs. 220v is not an issue. I got a friend that makes it run on 220v, for free:wink:

that's actually a good question. The original SVT 8x10 worked well woth 300 watts. It was a real efficient cab though. THe 610 is a completely different animal. In your shoes - I would want to hear it with 300 on tap. My suspicion is that the 610 actually wants more power than the original 810 would have. Will 300 be enough for you ? Only you can really tell us that.

wow, only 3 SVT-CL on fleaBay! Anyone in here know of one for sale?

I've been googling around, and it looks like the SVT-CL head is used in all "big-store-rigs" with either the SVT 810 or the SVT 610. So, I guess 300w should do it then...

I guess 300w should do it then...

Oh boy, are you in for a surprise when you hook an all tube Ampeg head up to that cab!:twisted:

It should be pointed out that tube watts and solid state watts are not necessarily equal measures of an amps output. My understanding is that the wattage listed is usually the output level AT THE ONSET OF CLIPPING. Solid state amps generally don't clip until you open them up all the way, you get there and you run out of gas. Tube amps are just getting good at the point where clipping begins, and can put out quite a bit more before they top out. So they're really quite a bit more powerful at the same wattage rating...

I've gigged with a 50-watt tube Traynor YBA-1 Bass Master, and it seemed every bit as loud as the 200-watt solid state SWR Workingman head I use.

A 300-watt tube head is gonna KILL a 300-watt solid state head!

Cheers, Tim

My understanding is that the wattage listed is usually the output level AT THE ONSET OF CLIPPING. Solid state amps generally don't clip until you open them up all the way, you get there and you run out of gas. Tube amps are just getting good at the point where clipping begins, and can put out quite a bit more before they top out.
+1

To all you US guys: What is a good price on the SVT-CL over there?

It should be pointed out that tube watts and solid state watts are not necessarily equal measures of an amps output. My understanding is that the wattage listed is usually the output level AT THE ONSET OF CLIPPING. Solid state amps generally don't clip until you open them up all the way, you get there and you run out of gas. Tube amps are just getting good at the point where clipping begins, and can put out quite a bit more before they top out. So they're really quite a bit more powerful at the same wattage rating...

Cheers, Tim

Only issue I have there is that when clipping does occur it tends to rob bass and things get compressed. Might be a good thing, might be a bad thing - depends on what you're looking after. WHen I want compression, I turn on the compressor - I would prefer not to have it as a function of the volume I'm playing at...

That 610 was designed with amps like the VT 4 Pro in mind where there is a kilo watt on tap. I would guess that means stronger, generally less efficient drivers. It's also a ported cab, tuned lower than the original sealed 'fridge cab.

Now - I'm sure that an SVT - CL sitting on a 610 would be more than enough for any gig I'm likely to do. I don't generally do loud rock 'n roll gig's these days though ...

Performance wise, the comparison I would make would be more dollars based. You can buy a whole lot of solid state power for the cost of an SVT these days. My PLX 2402 for instance is worth about $400 in the used market, maybe $500 on a good day... there's 1200 a side into 2 ohms - needless to say I've never taken it to the onset of clipping ... even running 1 side at 4 ohms where it's *only* 700 watts or so ...

For the cost of an SVT CL you can buy say - 4 GK 700 RB II's, or a pair of 1001 RB II's and a 700 as a spare .... so the 300 vs 300 thing ? true but maybe not the best measure ?

Martini, you said:
"All that aside, I used a 610 for my last recordings, using an SVT2 PRO, a Classic and a Boogie Bass 400+ for power.

It performed great with all three heads, it is a touch more refined then the SVT 410 and BSE 410 HLF cabs I've used but was more capable of providing the classic Ampeg Bass sound than the BXT range. (Which you would expect)."

Music style? ever tried the 610 with any of theese heads on a stage?

Yep, I've gigged all those heads with that cab playing material from my own band (which runs from Cult like rock to Motown ballads) and a wide range of cover material going from Zeppelin to James Brown.

No probs with the cab at all. Most of the time, I run my SVT2 PRO head into a BSE410HLF because if I'm on a big stage I'll DI too. And using the 610 for smaller gigs is like using a sledgehammer to crack walnuts.

I would recommend you try before you buy though, as 4Mal pointed out, these rigs do compress, especially when pushed. Thats a big part of the tone and if you dont like it........

Just remembered, we've got samples here:

http://www.overplay.co.uk/band.asp?band_id=1003884

Select track no 3: Steer you wrong.

I recorded that with my old Jazz and a Brand new SVTClassic. As I mentioned earlier, I used the 610 on all those sessions.

Its in mp3 format, but you should get some idea of what it sounds like.

PS: Its also a much cleaner tone than I normally use, the Classic gets real nasty when you drive it hard.

...
I would recommend you try before you buy though, as 4Mal pointed out, these rigs do compress, especially when pushed. Thats a big part of the tone and if you dont like it........

Just remembered, we've got samples here:

http://www.overplay.co.uk/band.asp?band_id=1003884

Select track no 3: Steer you wrong.

I recorded that with my old Jazz and a Brand new SVTClassic. As I mentioned earlier, I used the 610 on all those sessions.

Its in mp3 format, but you should get some idea of what it sounds like.

PS: Its also a much cleaner tone than I normally use, the Classic gets real nasty when you drive it hard.

The compress issue is not an real issue for me. I really dig that tone!

I sure hope the Classic gets nasty when pushed! Thats the sound I'm going for, and thats what suits my music the best :twisted:

Looks like it's an Ampeg Classic for me then :neutral: Just bought one of fleaBay for $1060. :shock:

About £500, thats a great price. Good luck with it.