true bypass vs not

Is there a huge difference in sound quality between true bypass & not true bypass? Will it really affect your signal chain on a pedal board? I have an Ibanez Weeping Demon wah as the first pedal on my board & it's not true bypass. Will it make a big difference?

Some people are more sensitive to it than others. It drives some people crazy, others don't notice a difference. The rest don't care. It's really up to you. What non-true bypass effects do is suck up your tone even when they're switched off. The most noticable effects on your tone are weak highs and lower volume. Plug your guitar straight into the amp and get used to the sound, then plug in whatever you regularly use and listen again to see if you notice a difference.One thing most people will agree on is that the more non-true bypass pedals you have in the chain, the greater difference there will be compared to your straight-in-the-amp tone.

The technical difference is that the effect is not completely removed from the chain in non-true bypass. think of the effect as having an in and out. the switch changes whether the signal goes through the effect or a bit of wire inside.

A true bypass device, when switched off, would act as though the effect did not exist there, the in and out of the effect being completely severed from the signal. The signal goes through a bit of wire that is soldered onto two switch lugs.

A non-true bypass device, however, would only cut off the input of the effects from the signal board. Though this does result in most of the current flowing through the bit of wire, however the output of the effects board is still affecting the signal.

As sixstringslinger said above, some feel the tone difference, others don't. Personally, I've never had the chance to compare the two, but if you feel lacking tone or want a better sound, the best mod to do is to make it true-bypass.

Keep in mind that one 20' cable straight into the amp will sound tons different than a 3' cable. This is what buffers are for, to basically eliminate most problems with loading impedance issues.

Here's a a/b soundclip:
http://www.indyguitarist.com/soundclips2/TB-demo-306.mp3

bw

i'm not 100% against buffers. but when the pedal sucks away your tone, it's a $hitty buffer.

'the family has a lot of buffahs'- i love that line.

i have four pedals in my chain. crybaby>ts9>dd5>boss tuner

only the wah had a noticeable tone suck. with a fender guitar it wasn't so bad, but with my les paul i went from a gorgeous guitar tone to a mud puppy. i did the true bypass mod and $20 later kaboom, great pedal. none of the others are true bypass, but i don't notice a difference 'with them'. other pedals ymmv

that's what i found anyway. do the pepsi challenge, and if your pedal is sucking tone, mod it.

cheers,
g.

i'm not 100% against buffers. but when the pedal sucks away your tone, it's a $hitty buffer.

'the family has a lot of buffahs'- i love that line.

i have four pedals in my chain. crybaby>ts9>dd5>boss tuner

only the wah had a noticeable tone suck. with a fender guitar it wasn't so bad, but with my les paul i went from a gorgeous guitar tone to a mud puppy. i did the true bypass mod and $20 later kaboom, great pedal. none of the others are true bypass, but i don't notice a difference 'with them'. other pedals ymmv

that's what i found anyway. do the pepsi challenge, and if your pedal is sucking tone, mod it.

cheers,
g.

I agree... a buffer into a buffer into a buffer (etc) will deteriorate the signal each time, lowering bandwidth sort of. One buffer as close to the guitar as possible is ideal, all other pedals true bypass of some sort preferably. Wah's, MXR and DOD's are known to have terrible bypasses.

bw

One buffer as close to the guitar as possible is ideal.

bw

How come?

Cool, thanks for the advice so far. So . . . what companies are known for producing effects pedals that are true bypass? Here's my rig, just for kicks:

Ibanez Weeping Demon wah
Boss MD-2 megadistortion
Rocktron Short Timer digital delay
Rocktron Deep Blue Chorus
MXR Phase 90
Danelectro Tuna Melt Tremelo

You're trading one set of problems for another. In the words of Robert A. Heinlein: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

People listen to their rigs too much under the "sonic microscope". Put it together and play it!

Look at Gilmour....nothing but buffered stuff...no true bypas fads there!
No bad sounds either....unbuffered stuff just bugs me...to much signal loss, even with relatively short cables.....bye bye highs and any kind of clarity!
No strange static noises either!
I do not like true bypass one bit!

Easiest way to eliminate tone suck when you aren't using an effect is to use a true bypass loop switch bank..

They allow you to keep the pedals on all the time and only switch them in to the signal chain when you are using them. It also cuts down on impedance loss from the extra jumper cables used in effects chains. And consolidates all foot switches to one box, eliminating the "stompbox two step" you normally have to do with a bunch of pedals.

Try it you'll like it!

I agree... a buffer into a buffer into a buffer (etc) will deteriorate the signal each time, lowering bandwidth sort of. One buffer as close to the guitar as possible is ideal, all other pedals true bypass of some sort preferably. Wah's, MXR and DOD's are known to have terrible bypasses.

bw

hi brian...got a quick question...i heard from someone one time that the buffer pedal should be at the END of the chain right before the amp :confused:

...i'm certainly not doubting your expertise (you obviously know this stuff or BSM wouldn't trust his rig to you), BUT i am smart enough to utilize a good resource when he posts on this board :razz:

so, in simple, guitar-player terms, WHY put the buffer pedal at the first of the chain??? this is good timing since i'm currently re-arranging my board anyway!

thanks for your help! (and all of the BSM info you supply on the board!!!)

edited to include board set-up...shure ulx wireless (most tone freaks wouldn't approve of this anyway...hahaha) -- a/b box for 1) tuner and 2) fulldrive 2 -- boss super chorus -- twin reverb. is the wireless doing the job of the initial buffer? does the chorus need to maybe go first??? thanks again!

Easiest way to eliminate tone suck when you aren't using an effect is to use a true bypass loop switch bank..

They allow you to keep the pedals on all the time and only switch them in to the signal chain when you are using them. It also cuts down on impedance loss from the extra jumper cables used in effects chains. And consolidates all foot switches to one box, eliminating the "stompbox two step" you normally have to do with a bunch of pedals.

Try it you'll like it!


So however many pedals you have thats at least the number of switch bank switches you need on the loop box. A good source of who makes these?

Look at Gilmour....nothing but buffered stuff...no true bypas fads there!
No bad sounds either....unbuffered stuff just bugs me...to much signal loss, even with relatively short cables.....bye bye highs and any kind of clarity!
No strange static noises either!
I do not like true bypass one bit!

True, but Gilmour's setup is not even remotely similar to that of the average working player. For starters, if he wasn't using active pickups, his signal, given the chain that he employs, would be anemic at best. Secondly (if not primarily), the guy can afford to pay Pete Cornish to design circuits and signal flow for him. Pete Cornish utilizes the best buffers possible (he's made it his business); additionally, Pete Cornish understands that supreme fidelity is not realized within small circuit enclosures, and further, his signal-to-noise ratio makes mincemeat of garden variety circuit boxes, hence the use within huge concert arenas. Can you afford Pete Cornish boxes? I certainly can't... at least not for gainers.

Personally, I prefer mostly true bypass circuits, a well placed buffer or two, and high fidelity cables such as George L's. I don't have the need to push a huge signal chain like Gilmour, and it's a good thing, as I absolutely detest the sound of active electric guitar circuits... but that's me and my world, not the world of David Gilmour and Pete Cornish and Pink Floyd... I get why he uses what he does.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself... a buffer within the chain most certainly interacts with everything that it comes in contact with... the only "rules" as to whether it's better early or late in the chain? There are none, other than what your ears tell you. You have to do the listening time.

Obviously, a buffer placed before an old school fuzz will likely render that circuit's pure tone useless... a BOSS TU-2's buffer placed before my gainers makes them sound harsh to me, which is why I place it afterwards... contrast that to, I think it's Bob Bradshaw, who dug the tone of the TU-2's buffer so much that he included it within pro chains that he was charged with designing... other than for screwing with something like a fuzz, I like to have quality buffers both early and late in the chain... I can definitely feel and hear within a loud live setting the anemic response of two many garden variety buffers in tow... the digital high end sheen and inferior bypass of a Line 6 DL4 will be easily heard by those that have gigged it many times...I can place a Klon Centaur within my chain, and even if I don't stomp the ped (which I certainly would), the signal is more robust (that's the benchmark of a strong buffer).

Gilmour has not used EMG's for quite some time now...
Back to passives...
True bypass has alot of troubles as well....use more than 3m of cable....and the
sound just goes dead.
If you want to use a buffer, use it first...unless you have oldstyle fuzzes and such, where the impedance can be a problem.
If not use relaybased switchers, they are beyond any impedance issues, as their range is more than enough for guitar useage:)
Most of the dislike is with what transistors some producents use for the buffering, and the poor amount of voltage most of them get, there is not much to use in a 9v design as it is.
Everything colours the sound, it is just a matter of finding the colour you like...
I am just one person, and I have no defenite opinion on it, as people have different rigs, and soundpreferencenses, personally I just do not like TB much, in Wah's I think it is good, but the rest??
Count me out:mrgreen:

So however many pedals you have thats at least the number of switch bank switches you need on the loop box. A good source of who makes these?

Try this link:


http://www.loop-master.com/index.php