Silverface Champs & Vibro Champs - questions

Still looking at all sorts of small combo amps, and realizing that I really don't need a small amp that can also run double duty at the occasional small club gig. That so rarely happens anymore, and when it does, I usually use whatever amp my friend's band has set up for rhythm (which is usually a Boogie Subway Rocket).

So I'm really just looking for a small amp that is tube, but sounds good at basement/living room volume, and something that I can take to cookouts, etc.

This leads me to the SF Fender Champ or Vibro Champ. These I can usually find on Ebay for $250-350 depending on condition.

Do these amps sound good with analog delay and overdrive pedals? I'm trying to find which overdrive pedal will give me a good rock sound out of one of these amps. I'm leaning towards the Fullton OCD or the Clark Gainster, but want to make sure things don't get too muddy w/ those pedals through a SF Champ.

Also, what are some good speaker replacements for Champ amps? I think they use a 6 1/2 or 8 inch speaker, right? I'm assuming Weber has some inexpensive options.

I played a '65 blackface Vibro Champ this weekend at GC (they were asking $699--- sheah, right!). I loved the sound, but not the price.

Do the SF era Champs sound much different than the BF era amps? I figure the SF stuff offers much better bang-for-the-buck.

I love SF Champs - and you do get more bang for your buck than with the BF.

I have owned a BF and a few early SF and find the difference in sound hard to detect to my ears.

A cheap Weber Signature series speaker will improve the responsiveness over the usual stock speaker.

And Champs do take well to overdrive pedals - although you may not need one as they can break up pretty early on their own.

SF and BF Champs are the same. CBS never really got around to messing with the Champ circuit during the transistion to SF. BF's may go for more $$$ due to "collectability" but they will sound the same.

It'll sound great with most pedals you throw at it. Analog Delay and Overdrive will be good food for the amp.

As far as speakers... this is one of the Fenders that I would suggest a good efficient Ceramic 8" for.

JC is correct in that the schematic for the small Fenders did not change over the years from BF to SF. Whether or not two amps will sound the same is another question altogether. Ex: I have a '7- SF Champ that is magnificent sonically. Everyone that hears it is amazed. I have acustomer who got a BF Champ off of ebay at a good price...$450 I think. The amp is cosmetically clean and all-original. IT cannot match my '70 sonically. Maybe the recap and service will bring it up to the level of my '70....maybe not. I do know that the low hum will be eliminated, and hopefully the low end will firm up while the highs will sparkle a bit more with better 'dimension' to the amp. The '70 is totally original down to the tubes....dead quiet, good lows, nice highs.
Sometimtes the variables in an amp just work together well. Sometimes the variables result in less than stellar sounds. Not all output transformers are created equal??? When I hear an amp put out good sounds, I value that amp higher than one that is similar in all respects except sound. And...you never know what you have until you plug into it and judge with some experienced ears. The good thing about these old handwired amps is that it is relatively easy to put the circuit into spec if some components...resistors, caps,....have drifted.

+ 1 to the above. SF Champs have about one watt more output than BF, and that sounds about 20% louder.

Like a pot of soup, a Champ takes about 20 minutes to "cook", and then you might wish it had less gain.

I put a Jensen P8R (alnico) RI in my SF Champ and it does a great job.
It sounds good with a Tele, gets pretty nasty with humbuckers, but it absolutely COOKS with a P-90 guitar.

SF champ will be perfect for you needs,and in the US theyre still cheap


I use a marshal reflector for reverb with mine


Any OD will do fine

I bought a "76" SF of e-bay a few weeks ago at the lower price range $265. Cosmeticly not the best. The workmanship on the amp( recapping) was sketchy .As far as tubes a mismatch of different makes. Seller claimed it had mojo and really performs. He wasn't blowin smoke, it really sounds great. I changed tubes to JJ's and EH's and it just didn't sound as warm or as smooth. I put the mismatch of tubes back in and its been my main practise amp. I guess ya roll the dice but I really think the odds are in your favor with getting a good sounding SF champ.
martini

Wally makes a great point.

No two amps will sound exactly the same. Much like no two guitars will play/feel/sound the same.

With amps you're dealing with varying tolerances in the components (5%-10% throughout dozens of caps and resistors) then you're dealing with some PTs giving slightly different voltages, and some OT's with slightly different impedances (then considering different OT manufacturers/materials over the years). Then, if you've ever measured the speakers in a 4x12" you'd see that not all speakers are exactly the impedance on the sticker. Finally, not all tubes are the same, even from the same factory.

As with a guitar - TRY out an amp before buying it...

As with a guitar - TRY out an amp before buying it...

Unfortunately, buying on Ebay, that's just not possible.

Unfortunately, buying on Ebay, that's just not possible.


True.

Even a "poor" Champ sounds great with good tubes and a good speaker... so you'll probably be fine without a test drive :)

I don't think you can go wrong with a SF Champ. I have one with a ceramic Weber Sig Series and it sounds so good I don't feel the need for reverb. The Champ is one of the all-time great amps.

Good luck on your hunt.

dB

I have a Vibro Champ, its about a '73 and its simply amazing. The tone is incredible and its perfect for jamming at home. Right now I have the Vibro Champ cascaded with a '64 Kalamazoo Model Two and I am using a stereo effects pedal. I run the right channel into the Vibro Champ/Kalamazoo cascade and I run the left channel into a Blues Junior.

With this setup I can dial in any tone I want. I'm planning on adding a single 15" cab to this. Once I do the Blues Junior will power the 15", the Kalamazoo will power the single 12" in the BJ cab and the Vibro champ will power its own speaker.

With the Vibro Champ I get really sweet clean tones, as bright as I want them. With the Kalamazoo, I get more of a growling overdrive, and the Blues Junior can do either. Since the VC is already great with the speaker in it I'll leave it to handle the high end and clean. I'll use the Kalamazoo to handle mids and add some overdrive which is perfect for the 12" and I'll dial in the BJ to blend the rest of my tone through the 15"

The VC is about 5 watts, the kalamazoo is about 6 watts, and of course the BJ is 15 watts. This is just about the perfect wattages for each section of my tone, the most watts of course going to the bottom end.

I'll post a pic of my rig as soon as I unpack the camera (we just moved) personally I love the tone from my setup. It is perfect for rock, blues, metal, jazz, country, it can do it all. Nothing quite like three tube amps dialed in and cooking up some blues....

Rocks

I love my SF Champ to pieces.

I would definately reccomend a Jensen C8R as a replacement speaker, I put one of these in, & it sounds godly.Mind you, It increased the headroom somewhat from the stock speaker, though this was what I was after.Stays clean as a whistle till bout 6-7 on the volume dial.
Sweetest cleans ever.

I have a Jensen MOD 10-50 in my silverfaced VibroChamp and love it (10" speaker).

I really enjoy my Champ. It has a Jensen C8R speaker, and makes a nice small jazz combo amp. I don't know if I should try to convert it to a 10" speaker or not to make it more versatile.