bass amp recomendations

hey guys,

it's time i invested in a bass amp for my "other" band. i've been borrowing for too long now and have committed to getting something in the next week or so.

i've been looking at a new ampeg B 200 R. has anyone here anyone used one of these? i love the old portaflex amps and of course the SVTs but i'm really not a fan of their newer SS stuff. they all seem to have that very "modern" bass sound of lots of sub frequencies and top end sparkle but lacking in the warm thuddy "punch" i crave. i guess i'm looking for something in the james jamerson/60s pop and soul area tone wise. i play a 50s RI p bass with flat wounds. you think this B 200 would cut it?

whatever i get it's got to be reasonably portable, loud enough for small/medium gigs un-mic'd and be tough. i think i'd prefer a 15 to 10s but i could be persuaded either way.

i've tried and not been impressed at all with various ashdown gear. trace ellliot seems okay but the budget stuff seems quite underpowered. i've used a hartke 3500 head and peavey 4x10 for a while and while it's okay it's pretty bland sounding. just doesn't do it for me. i love old peaveys tonally and reliability wise. if i came across one of those i'd snap it up.

any other recomendations?

thanks,

al.

I know what you mean about that 'modern' sound... Eden does that sound best IMO - clear and full-range but still musical.

That said, the best sounding rig i plugged into was a Gallien-Kruger RB1001 Mk II head into their massive 4x12 cab. But that amp IS all punch, warmth and headroom. Blendable tweeter level to go from ol skool to more hi-fi. But it was far more amp than I need. I ended up getting a used SWR Baby Blue (head version) and it sounds excellent for rehearsals, practice.

Check out the RB (or 'Artist') series on the GK website for models/wattage/configuration.

Trevor

thanks trevor,

i'll check out the GK site now

al.

I have a Behrenger Ultrabass 900 kickback thingy with a cool aluminum cone speaker. Both bands that I play out in have been using it at both gigs and practice. In both situations, the bassists would use a small modeling pedal for their own sounds and tones and just plug right into Behrenger from there. In my experience, Bassists are'nt as tone-freak-purist as guitarists typically are, but there are exceptions. The kickback shape of the thing is great, Both Lisa and Justin will just point it at themselves like a monitor and send a line-out from their pedal to the PA. It's great for volume and mixing control.

Lisa has a 4x10 Peavey combo that she's left at home a bunch, and Justin has not brought his behemoth Acoustic 1x18 cab (it's 5 feet 9 inches tall) to any gigs yet. The little Behrenger plus a modeling pedal has sounded good enough without being a back breaker.

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/6/8/8/302688.jpg

In both situations, the bassists would use a small modeling pedal for their own sounds and tones and just plug right into Behrenger from there.
What modeling pedals are they using?

/ Tony

hmmm. thanks, that's interesting. i know a lot of people knock behringer but they do make some good stuff and the bass amps of theirs i've tried have all been quite impressive. i actually know a great semi-pro bass player who sold his entire monster trace elliot rig for behinger stuff recently.

maybe i should have said before though, i'm kind of going for a retro vibe too. image is particularly important in this particular band (hence the ampeg B200 inclination).

al.

Behringer stuff is generally reverse-engineered (read: ripped off) from already successful brands, and their bass stuff is generally Ashdown Mag-like. fwiw.

I'm really happy with my SWR Workingman head (alas, discontinued), and GK stuff gets the highest praise down in the bass forum (where you should have asked this question, Al! :mrgreen: ).

Cheers, Tim

Hi, Al. I'm pretty happy with my Ashdown MAG300115. Good deals at Coda Music on these. Also worth checking the 210 version. The Ampeg Portabass 112 is good as well but the standard Aura neodymium speaker is rubbish and best replaced with a 4-ohm Eminence Delta. Not hugely loud for a supposedly 250-watt amp but lovely tones and highly adjustable and very portable, as the name suggests. Overpriced new but some used bargains about. I've also heard that the Eden Nemesis and Mark bass amps are well worth investigating, though I have no direct experience of them. Finally, my regular bass-player when I'm on guitar uses a little Laney Richter combo, which is very effective - another range to check out.

The Bass Place here at the TDPRI, you'll probably get some more answers, and also go to http://www.talkbass.com for more info and opinions. I (of course) also have an opinion, but you'll have to be the final judge.

First off, I wouldn't go for a combo. Sure they're relatively inexpensive and convenient, but playing bass means you need real watts, which are heavy and cost more. The Hartke would sound a lot better through a 2X12 Avatar, maybe with a 1X15 add-on for bigger rooms (both at 8 ohms). That's where I'd start though, with a 2X12. The bigger GKs get some nice old-school tone, just stay away from the smaller (and of course, cheaper) GK heads. So there's a good recommendation - GK head and Avatar cab.

Second - I think... GOODNESS! I've gotta go catch Redd! Later!

I've got a new Ampeg SVT4-PRO head AND a '51 reissue P-Bass, so that may be VERY similar to where you're heading.

Like the B-200R, the SVT4-PRO uses a tube preamp with a SS power section. I am using roundwounds on my '51 RI though.

The newer hybrid Ampegs can still get that old school sound. The midrange is the "thuddy punch" you're talking about. The tube pre makes it easier to dial in a warmer "vintage" sound in some ways. Of course my experience is with roundwounds through an Eden 4x10" cab.

The SVT4-PRO does have a widely variable 5-way midrange switch which allows for a great deal of character selection, or instead I can bypass the mid switch and tone controls and use its 9-band EQ - whereas the B-200R has a "Ultra-Mid" control and a 4 band EQ...

Still, differences or not, I'd bet you'd get that old school sound with the B-200R.

I think the Eminence in the B-200R is already a lightweight neo mag speaker, so its probably already super light. Otherwise I'd suggest something like a Jensen Neo15-300... if the impedance is right.

sweet thanks guys. i know i should have asked this is the bass forum really but y'know.. it was borderline (it's still an amp right?) and i figured i'd get more responses here.

i actually gigged with an all solid state (1980s?) ampeg portaflex on saturday night and was mightily impressed. not the loudest thing in the world but it had that sound that i'm after in spades. i'm investigating!

FWIW: I was shopping for a functional bass amp - found a Peavey TNT 60, 60 watter (duh) with a pretty decent 12...has pre out/pwr amp in to run a line to the PA...I used it for a zazz gig Sat nite, and it was...perfect.

Paid $120.00 for it, and has already paid for itself...

Another FWIW: It can be difficult deciding what size amp to get...if you will be working with a band that has a substantial PA, then perhaps smaller (IE just a monitor) would be a better choice...if your primary gig is competing against 100 watt Marshalls at full tilt and y'all don't run much thru the PA, then you will need all the power and speakers you can tote...

Last FWIW: A bunch of guys working major venues or working with a bigger PA with lots of monitors just bypass using an amp altogether, and run thru an esoteric (or not) preamp direct to the console.

Another FWIW: It can be difficult deciding what size amp to get...if you will be working with a band that has a substantial PA, then perhaps smaller (IE just a monitor) would be a better choice...if your primary gig is competing against 100 watt Marshalls at full tilt and y'all don't run much thru the PA, then you will need all the power and speakers you can tote...

Last FWIW: A bunch of guys working major venues or working with a bigger PA with lots of monitors just bypass using an amp altogether, and run thru an esoteric (or not) preamp direct to the console.

that's the rub. 80% of the time we're playing into a clubs PA with fairly decent monitors. the other 20% we're playing to noisy pubs and bars with a vocal only only PA. it's got to do both!

Understood...

Here's just an idea (one that I have incorporated into my bass rig): If they are available, use a combo, and when much bigger guns are needed, run a line out to a PA power amp connected to a the woofers in a pair of PA cabs...these could even be rented for next to nothing in most areas, if you don't want to lay out the cash...

OTOH, I am also experimenting with a couple of bass 12's in a Musicman RH212 cab (the size of a 412, but the bottom is a huge reflex horn, with no shortage of low end cojones)...

In one way bass players have it made, in that they can have a very small rig, and just add cabs and drivers to suit the bill...

You could always go the modular route. Get a preamp that has the sound you want and run it into a clean powerful power amp (any good PA amp will do) and into whatever speaker arrangement that works (a 2x10 cab for smaller gigs, put another cab under it for bigger ones). If you get rackable stuff, you could put your preamp and power amp in a rack case and it'd be much like carrying a normal bass head...

Cheers, Tim

You should take a look at the Mesa MPulse Venture 2x12
combo. Not exactly cheap, but what an amp! The 12's
really bring out the mids in a bass, plus it is plenty deep
and punchy too.

Having played it on quite a few occasions, the only bass rig I can highly recommend is an Ampeg amp (B2R, SVT3, or SVT4) "piggybacked" on an Ampeg "8 X 10" cab!

Behringer's bass amps are not bad, EXCEPT for the 450 watt combo with a "2 X 10" cab.

I'm an actual gigging bass player, unlike (cough!) many of the six stringers here.

Take a look at Markbass. Guitar Center carries them. They use neo mags and digital switching to make gear that's light, powerful and affordable


I have the markbass mini CMD 112 combo--a single 12, 500 watts, weighs less than 30 lbs. It's got a distinctively old school sound to me, with none of the crispy highs and mid scoop that so many bass amps have. The tone grabbed me right away, reminded me of my old ampeg B-15, except 10 times the watts and 1/4 the weight

If you add an extension cab, like a second 12, you have a 500 watt 2x12 amp that will cover any gig that doesn't put the bass through a PA

http://www.markbass.it/prodotto_dett/thumb/thumb_41.jpg

They make a 1x15 and a 2x10 as well. I'm totally happy with mine--I use it by itself on small gigs and bring a second 12 for a bigger sound.

The bass amp world is really going through some changes right now, with Digital switching, class d amps coming on line. I have an Acoustic Image Focus SA that puts out 600 watts at 4 ohms and weighs 3.5 lbs. It's the size of a cigar box, fits in my gig bag. Markbass makes a head that's around 5 lbs, 500 watts, the "littleMarkII." Same amp as in my combo

I love the sound of tube bass amps, came up on that stuff, but there's no way i'm going back to hauling that big, heavy gear.

+1 on the MarkBass 12...our bass player turned in his Peavey 130 (after 20 years or so) on this amp. I was impressed with his sound and even more impressed with the light, portable package...I got tired of having to help lift the 'ol Peavey monster onto floats, stages, stairs, etc.

Tom

I'm saving up for a Jaguar 200. It's reasonably portable. :wink:

http://www.jaguaramplification.com/images/i_bass_amp_b.jpg

that's the rub. 80% of the time we're playing into a clubs PA with fairly decent monitors. the other 20% we're playing to noisy pubs and bars with a vocal only only PA. it's got to do both!


You could always go the modular route. Get a preamp that has the sound you want and run it into a clean powerful power amp (any good PA amp will do) and into whatever speaker arrangement that works (a 2x10 cab for smaller gigs, put another cab under it for bigger ones). If you get rackable stuff, you could put your preamp and power amp in a rack case and it'd be much like carrying a normal bass head...


Tim's approach to Bass gear has always been a great model for me to follow!

Like WireLine suggested, take advantage of front-of-house PA's when you can.

If you've got a modular setup you can bring only what you need for the venue, leaving the extra stuff at home or in the car. Better to have more than enough for those big un-DI'ed shows, then not enough... scaling back is easy, not having enough horsepower is unforgiveable!




I'm an actual gigging bass player, unlike (cough!) many of the six stringers here.

HEY! HAHAHA

What, my Ampeg SVT4-PRO and Eden cab isn't "pro" enough for you?

Good suggestion though. That Markbass does look like a good portable way to go and with an extension cab you can spread the love to the other side of the stage :)

I'm an actual gigging bass player, unlike (cough!) many of the six stringers here.

Take a look at Markbass. Guitar Center carries them. They use neo mags and digital switching to make gear that's light, powerful and affordable


I have the markbass mini CMD 112 combo--a single 12, 500 watts, weighs less than 30 lbs. It's got a distinctively old school sound to me, with none of the crispy highs and mid scoop that so many bass amps have. The tone grabbed me right away, reminded me of my old ampeg B-15, except 10 times the watts and 1/4 the weight

If you add an extension cab, like a second 12, you have a 500 watt 2x12 amp that will cover any gig that doesn't put the bass through a PA

http://www.markbass.it/prodotto_dett/thumb/thumb_41.jpg

They make a 1x15 and a 2x10 as well. I'm totally happy with mine--I use it by itself on small gigs and bring a second 12 for a bigger sound.

The bass amp world is really going through some changes right now, with Digital switching, class d amps coming on line. I have an Acoustic Image Focus SA that puts out 600 watts at 4 ohms and weighs 3.5 lbs. It's the size of a cigar box, fits in my gig bag. Markbass makes a head that's around 5 lbs, 500 watts, the "littleMarkII." Same amp as in my combo

I love the sound of tube bass amps, came up on that stuff, but there's no way i'm going back to hauling that big, heavy gear.

Hmmmm.... i wonder if it'd be feasible to pair it up with one of these 2,700 watt Sunfires (http://www.sunfire.com/TrueSubwooferEQSigPR.htm)....

I have an old Portaflex (B-12N which is a B-15N head with a 12" cab). It has one great sound but you are only going to gig in low volume situations. If you like that sound (and SVT's and in between), take a look for V-4 and V-4B's. Make sure they have good tubes (expensive to re-tube). They are 100 watts but LOUD. They are also extremely heavy. The V-4 is supposedly a guitar amp but it is the same as the V-4 with reverb. You can sometimes find these for a pretty good deal around here. I am not sure about the UK but it's worth a shot.

In my 30 years of bass playing I've owned a bunch of amps including

Ampeg (B25B, SVT, B-15, SVT3pro)
SWR (redhead combo (350 watts, 2x10), working man's 12 combo, workingmans' ten combo, various heads)

The best sound IMHO was the B-15--35 watts at 80 lbs, just not practical as a gigging amp any more

The Markbass combo is louder than the SWR redhead, has a better sound to my old-school oriented ears, and weighs less than half what the redhead weighed

Here's a couple clips, recorded using the Markbass combo and an SM57--controls set flat, no eq or compression, the mic off-axis.

bonus to anyone who can identify both songs!

first clip--fender 60s j bass, thomastick flatwounds, both pickups full on, played finegerstyle

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/flats.mp4

Second clip, a Dingwall five string with nickelrounds, neck pickup only, played fingerstyle

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/magic/rounds.mp4

Take a look a EBS or Epifani. Not cheap , but great sounding stuff.

wow some great recomendations here guys. can't hear the clips here at work but i'll do my best to listen later. liking the idea of that 500w 12" mark bass combo. loud, old school light and affordable? that sounds pretty much perfect.

Tell you what, Al, having suggested Mark stuff in my earlier reply and then seen what other guys have said about it, I'm sorely tempted to sell or chop in the Ampeg and get one of these myself. Seems the Bass Centre near Liverpool Street are doing a good deal on this model. If you do go for it, I'd appreciate a PM letting me know what you think. Cheers, Tony.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Gallean Kruger. GK bass amps are absolutely the best band for the buck that I've ever seen. Tough as nails, great sound and reasonably priced. I have gigged with guys using these amps for several years and have never once seen anyone have a problem.

I'm really happy with my SWR Workingman head (alas, discontinued), and GK stuff gets the highest praise down in the bass forum (where you should have asked this question, Al! :mrgreen: ).

Cheers, Tim

:mrgreen:

Tim

When I was gigging for a living back in the late 60's I used an Ampeg B15N and a Hagstrom bass, what an awesome tone combination albeit lacking in volume for anything larger than a bar gig (and few if no gear PA's back then). I sure wish I had that B15N today! Recently I've been using a Crate PB or a GK 250, both run into a JenNeo 15 cab - also good for small venues if need be. It all depends on your requirements, the tone yer after, and yer piggy bank.

Tell you what, Al, having suggested Mark stuff in my earlier reply and then seen what other guys have said about it, I'm sorely tempted to sell or chop in the Ampeg and get one of these myself. Seems the Bass Centre near Liverpool Street are doing a good deal on this model. If you do go for it, I'd appreciate a PM letting me know what you think. Cheers, Tony.

i'll bear it in mind tony. i wasn't aware of that shop to be honest! i'll look them up now. thanks. i have just found out that our manager can get us a pretty decent discount on ampeg stuff so i'm waiting to see what comes of that but in the meantime i'll try a few things and report back.

i'll bear it in mind tony. i wasn't aware of that shop to be honest! i'll look them up now. thanks. i have just found out that our manager can get us a pretty decent discount on ampeg stuff so i'm waiting to see what comes of that but in the meantime i'll try a few things and report back.

The Bass Centre, Brune Street, London E1 7NH. Tel: 020 7247 7847. Website: www.basscentre.com

Never bought anything from them myself (yet) but they were very helpful when I made an enquiry a while ago.

I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned Mesa. I have one of these:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/housefull/BandGear-0211.jpg

but it isn't very portable. A buddy of mine picked up a 15" walkabout scout also made by Mesa and I can't believe the sound it makes. Very near the sweet warmth of the Big Block 750 in a package that weighs only 8 lbs. more than just my head unit. It has the capability of going DI, adding a second cabinet, or just filling the room on it's own, which it does very nicely.
Anything from Mesa is going to cost some dough, and in this case $1300 may be too pricey for you, but it is still cheaper and ALOT lighter than my rig. Good luck to ya...

hmmm. thanks, that's interesting. i know a lot of people knock behringer but they do make some good stuff and the bass amps of theirs i've tried have all been quite impressive. i actually know a great semi-pro bass player who sold his entire monster trace elliot rig for behinger stuff recently.

maybe i should have said before though, i'm kind of going for a retro vibe too. image is particularly important in this particular band (hence the ampeg B200 inclination).

al.

I had the pleasure of meeting Them when they first started over here in The States. And I'll say this; Very NICE People. I have a friend who's an excellent player who bought Their 2X10 Guitar Amp years ago when it first came out.
It's S/S and he uses it in concert with a Tech 21 GT-2 and it sounds great.
The reason initially why he "went Behringer" is that he lives in a really ROUGH
neighborhood in The City so all his gear is "what he can get by with" because
the day will come when he'll come home and.....presto! Wiped out.
We got really lucky and found him a Mexican Classic Strat (used) out the door for $300, so his ENTIRE RIG that sounds like a million bucks under his talented fingers came out roughly to $600.
Even if he ever moves I'm pretty certain he'll stick with what he's got.

I assume you want a combo amp?

Bass gear keeps getting lighter and more powerful. A couple companies seem to be leaders in that race--Markbass is one

Epifani makes some fantastic stuff--I have an Epifani 110 cab that I just love--soounds fantastic, weighs nothing. They make a great set of combos--but an Epifani 112 combo will set you back $1900.

Euphonic Audio makes a great 112 combo, runs up to 500 watts and weighs about 45 lbs. Lots of people love them--I find the amp interface needlessly complicated. The EA 500c combo will set you back around $1400

The Mesa Walkabouot scout is a cool amp, a 112 at 300 watts. Goes for about $1200

The Markbass 112 combo goes for $800, which is why I recommended it first.

Bass gear keeps getting lighter and more powerful. A couple companies seem to be leaders in that race--Markbass is one.

The Markbass 112 combo goes for $800, which is why I recommended it first.

This just goes to illustrate the outrageous and disgraceful rip-off prices that we in the UK have to pay for things. If this amp can be sent all the way from Italy to the USA and still be sold for $800, how come that in the UK, a fellow member with Italy of the European Union and much closer to the factory, we have to pay the equivalent of over $1200 (that's right, Twelve Hundred Dollars!) for the exact same item?

I cannot sufficiently express the anger and frustration I feel at the greed and cynicism of this country's music trade, as well as most UK suppliers of consumer goods in general.

UK: 17.5% VAT, US: depends on the state/county, but rarely more than 6 or 7% VAT (here in Austria we pay 20%, and having lived both in Austria and the US for extended periods of time, I gladly prefer to pay the higher VAT over here for all the benefits & quality of life that come with it - and I'll leave it at that, so as not to run foul of the "no politics" rule here :mrgreen:).

Prices are also regulated by what the market will bear, supply and demand (interactive with the size of the market), average income, etc.

You'll just have to accept the unofficial $ to € exchange rate of 1:1 (sorry, you'll have to figure out British Pounds yourself) - by and large, taking averaqe net income into account, most Western Europeans are still paying the same amount/value as Americans...

And to keep it on topic: why haven't Peavey bass amps been mentioned yet? Affordable, sturdy & reliable, and traditional sounding...

UK: 17.5% VAT, US: depends on the state/county, but rarely more than 6 or 7% VAT (here in Austria we pay 20%, and having lived both in Austria and the US for extended periods of time, I gladly prefer to pay the higher VAT over here for all the benefits & quality of life that come with it - and I'll leave it at that, so as not to run foul of the "no politics" rule here :mrgreen:).

Prices are also regulated by what the market will bear, supply and demand (interactive with the size of the market), average income, etc.

You'll just have to accept the unofficial $ to € exchange rate of 1:1 (sorry, you'll have to figure out British Pounds yourself) - by and large, taking averaqe net income into account, most Western Europeans are still paying the same amount/value as Americans...

Sorry, Roman - with great respect your numbers don't add up. Certainly the UK VAT rate is 17.5%, but bear in mind also that within the EU there is no import duty to pay. Granted, the US price is quoted net of local and State sales taxes, but there are no mathematical grounds upon which a 3:2 price disparity at current exchange rates (£1.00 = $1.98) can be justified.

The difference in real terms is even greater if you factor in the generally higher levels of income in the USA. As regards what the market will bear, our choice is simple: you want it, pay our price or go without. The situation is far from confined to the music trade; it is endemic to the UK market in general.

I make no political comment because this is not a political matter. It is rather, as I already averred, a question of cynical greed.

My guess is they are more in England not because of greed on the part of stores, but because of two related things

A: Markbass is trying the crack the biggest market (the US) and they are aggressively pricing them
B: They are being marketed exclusively through Guitar Center, which is doing it's best to monopolize the market and which has Wal-Mart-like buying power. I suspect guitar center told Markbass "if you want to enter the US market in our stores, you have to price them like this." I have no evidence for this, I just suspect it. The Markbass stuff seems pretty radically underpriced at the moment

Actually, one major factor in the cheaper prices for most things in the USA is the cheaper price of freight, due to our significantly (artificially?) lower fuel prices. For a number of reasons, retail fuel prices in Europe are roughly twice what they are here. Shipping costs reflect that cost. And as noted, VAT (value added tax, much like our sales taxes) in most European countries is considerably higher than US sales taxes (and we don't pay ANY sales tax on stuff we buy online, as long as the shipper is in a different state).

I'm making no value judgements here, don't want a political discussion at all, just pointing out the WHY of higher prices in England.

Cheers, Tim

Maxvintage's points make a certain amount of sense; I can understand the strategy of pitching the price of an individual item artificially low to break into a market and shift product. The Bass Centre here did the same on a much smaller scale with the Eden Nemesis range when it was new to the UK market and now the prices have risen.

As Tim said, fuel costs within the USA are much lower than in Europe, and roughly a third of UK prices in particular. However, the items we're discussing are shipped from Europe, therefore the costs must at least partially reflect European fuel charges.

It would be unfair not to concede that distributors' and dealers' overheads are greater in the UK because of real estate values, taxes, interest rates, etc. Nevertheless I still maintain that mark-ups in general are unjustifiably high in this country. An example from another area of marketing is Triumph motor cycles. I live less than an hour's drive from the factory, yet with all the costs of shipping, import duty and the rest, the prices of their machines are a whole lot lower in the USA than they are here in their domestic market.

If we want the goods, we just have to pay for them at the best discount available to us. But, as I said, it's frustrating when we know that better prices are available elsewhere. There's little or nothing we can do about it, but we don't have to like it or refrain from commenting on the situation.