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Weber speakers... Light Dope or No Dope?

Mike Simpson
January 22nd, 2007, 01:58 AM
When ordering speakers from Weber do you'all'uns get em' with any Dope?
I don't remember having any "cone cry" ot "edge yowl" or whaterver the noise may be... on any amp or speaker in the past.

What is the downside to dope? Does the speaker just take longer to break in? Do they last longer? does the dope supress some natural responsiveness?

I am considering a pair of 10A125 or 10F150, these are for a 40 watt amp with 2x10's that will not likely see much over half volume.

Tremo
January 22nd, 2007, 02:08 AM
You'd better get dope if you go with the 125s, that cone is prone to cry.

Drak
January 22nd, 2007, 09:59 AM
On his speakers, Ted uses very tight gaps between the voice coil and the magnet. The slightest variance of the speaker not acting like a -perfect- piston, any side-to-side wobble of the coil movement creates the 'cry' (I'm pretty sure I got this right, he has a section on it at his website I do believe)

Doping the surround of the speaker helps to keep the movement perfectly piston-like, thus reducing the chance of any 'cry' when the voice coil starts rubbing against, or very near, the magnet.

He now offers another line of speakers that have wider gaps so the chance of cry is greatly reduced, or you can have his regular series doped.

The downside is -maybe- a slight reduction in articulation, but I doubt most anyone could ever hear the difference.

Also, he uses dope judiciously, some manufacturers slobber the stuff on their speakers very thick and halfway down the cone, which WOULD dampen the characteristics of the speaker, but he does it with finesse, just on the surround itself, and just enough to get the job done.

Dope can be applied by anyone really, it isn't tough, I've doped lots of old EV SRO alnico speakers that I bought used that had deteriorating surrounds or small rips or tears in the surround or cone, it's a cheap and effective way of saving a nice old speaker with a paper or cloth surround going bad. You can't do it to those rubber butyl surrounds, once they're gone, they're gone. Most stereo bass speakers have the rubber butyl stuff, but most guitar speakers have either cloth or paper surrounds, and can be saved/fixed/repaired if not too bad.

You can also remove the dope from a speaker yourself also, Acetone usually is used with a little paint brush to loosen it up and then you peel it off the surround and presto, dope is gone.

Go ahead and get it doped, cone cry does suck, and doping really doesn't hurt anything, people make far more out of it than need be.

woodman
January 22nd, 2007, 12:56 PM
all three of my Webers had cone-cry in the early going, but it went away after about 15-20 hours of good hard playing. unlike some, it didn't bother me at all, and i couldn't detect it at all in the stage mix. IMO, it's easier to dope later if you need it than to de-dope if you feel it desensitizes your speaker. YMMV and all that.

Drak
January 22nd, 2007, 01:19 PM
Cone cry can be on many different levels, at least my experiences with Weber speakers, from none at all to just barely noticable to moderately bothersome to (rarely) waaay waaay baaad, so when people talk about it, it's hard to tell one guy that it goes away when, say, yours was maybe not so bad but his is really bad, without someone hearing both to compare.

Over the years, I've probably owned at least one if not more of just about everything Weber makes (he makes a -great- product), and have heard many different levels of cone cry, from none at all to Massive KazooLand living inside my speaker.

I've had some seemingly go away, most didn't.
I cannot say that I gave all offenders a fair chance tho, if it was bad, I probably didn't give it 15-20 hours of playtime to redeem itself.
:smile:

Glen W
January 22nd, 2007, 01:29 PM
You'd better get dope if you go with the 125s, that cone is prone to cry.

I agree, the only Weber I've had cry was the P12Q/12A125 in a 5E3 clone, and it was undoped. And it only did it with a Strat In the 'tween positions! Every other Weber I've used has been ok w/o the dope.

Mike Simpson
January 22nd, 2007, 01:39 PM
They are for my "new" Super Vibrolux project. I lean to the Alnico's... I guess I am thinking that the alnico will be a little more tame than ceramic. I am not looking to make it as loud as possible... just looking for a sweet tone.
Thanks for your opinions, It seems harder to decide on speakers for this amp.

Here is a couple of pics comparing the Super Vibrolux size to a DRRI and a BFSR
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/110-1003_IMG.JPG


Remember that old advertising logo...
With the dog and the phonograph, was it RCA?...
"His masters voice" (Ralph likes amps too)
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/110-1004_IMG.JPG

tazzboy
January 22nd, 2007, 04:19 PM
I do with my 12A150A

Drak
January 23rd, 2007, 12:38 PM
I'll see your 2-10 Super-in-a-Vibrolux-box plus DR and raise you a 2-10 DR! :grin:

The Super has a Weber C12S and a P10N, both speakers are doped.
The 2-10 DR has a pair of C10P's in it which are not doped, maybe you can see the difference, the surrounds of the Super speakers being shiny black.
The 1-12" DR has an EV SRO that I had Ted recone for me with his British cone, you can see that big ole' 4" voice coil paper cap sticking out. Love that speaker.
From left to right: 1973, 1976, 1973.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/Draak/AMPS/SuperNoGrille-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/Draak/AMPS/3AmigosDressed.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/Draak/AMPS/3AmigosNoGrille.jpg

JoePops22
January 23rd, 2007, 03:05 PM
Dope can be applied by anyone really, it isn't tough.

What type of glue do you use for doping ?

Drak
January 23rd, 2007, 03:17 PM
I used what Ted Weber recommended, but it's been a few years since I've done any.

I believe it was Weldons rubber cement, and it had a RED label, I seem to remember that was important, like they had 2 or 3 varieties, and the red one was the proper one. You thin it with some Acetone to get the consistency you want first, you don't use it straight out of the bottle.

You can ask Ted directly to verify.

Mike Simpson
January 23rd, 2007, 10:51 PM
Drak, you know I was thinking of a 2x10 deluxe too...

How do you like the Super with the 12+10?

charlie chitlin
January 23rd, 2007, 11:20 PM
Y'all got me worried now.
I just got the tracking # for my 12A150 with no dope and I'm wondering if it going to freak out when I've got the volume all twisted up.

Drak
January 24th, 2007, 12:50 AM
No need to worry, I would be exited. Ted makes some really great speakers.


Drak, you know I was thinking of a 2x10 deluxe too...
I used to have 2 P10N's in it, but now with the C10P's, it has become my 'go to' amp for Roy Buchanan sounds. Much crisper high end, which I like.

How do you like the Super with the 12+10?
I like it a lot, it took a little bit of fooling around to find the right combination of speakers so the 12" didn't completely mask the 10 tho, but once that got worked out, it's great, because it's not real heavy, but still sports a 2- combo, kind of a compact package with a lot of punch.

woodman
January 24th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Y'all got me worried now.
I just got the tracking # for my 12A150 with no dope and I'm wondering if it going to freak out when I've got the volume all twisted up.

don't fret -- just play it in for a while and in all likelihood, it'll be great.

Mike Simpson
January 24th, 2007, 03:21 PM
Well I went ahead and ordered 2 of the 10A125 4 ohm 30w with light dope.
I will let y'all know what I think when they arrive...

Mike Simpson
February 15th, 2007, 03:20 AM
Well my Weber 10A125's showed up today and I installed them in the amp. It was late and I couldn't play it much or turn it up much. They sound good, maybe not as much bass and lower mid as I expected (at least brand new). What changes are common after break in and how many hours of playing does it usually take?

Thanks!

charlie chitlin
February 15th, 2007, 09:15 AM
I've only got about 6 hours on my 12A150, and it's mellowed a bit.
I already like it much better than the new Jensen P12N.
I went with no dope, and I can't get it to make any ugly sounds, no matter what I do.

woodman
February 15th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I've only got about 6 hours on my 12A150, and it's mellowed a bit.
I already like it much better than the new Jensen P12N.
I went with no dope, and I can't get it to make any ugly sounds, no matter what I do.

that's great to hear! rock on!

Tremo
February 15th, 2007, 05:40 PM
I absolutely love the 12A150, what a great sounding speaker.

charlie chitlin
February 17th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Update...
Well...there ain't much to say other than:
I put another 4 hours on my 12A150, and I could hardly believe those tones were coming from me.
Tweed nirvana.
I can't wait to gig this thing...now I might not mind playing St. Paddy's day.
Might change the band name to The Marauding Inebriates for that gig.:shock: