Why do a lot of Strats play "stiff"??

I mean they are hard to move on the neck quickly, hard to bend strings--just stiff.

I have owned about 12 Strats in my life. Never completely bonded with any of them. I recently went on an all out Strat search. Mayer, EC, EJ, MIM, Classic, Custom Classic, Custom Shop, Knopfler, Hiway 1, American--you name it, I played it. I ended up with an American Standard because it played the best period. By the way, it was just this one--I played 3 others that were not as good.

So what's the deal? Fret size, spring tension, neck radius, neck tilt? Today I had some time to kill so I went to my local store and played every Strat that had a decent weight--probably about 10 total. The best player was a 50's Player Strat--MIM but designed by the Custom Shop. It played better than all three Custom Shop Strats that cost 4 times as much.

One more thing--can you set up any Strat so it will not play stiff? If so, how? Bring it on TDPRI members and thanks.

Have you tried a hardtail strat or one with a locked trem? The raised action a floating trem provides could be what's causing this.

I always felt that Strats were among the least stiff guitars.
I figure it's because the bridge moves while bending.

Stiff? I find it opposite. Teles are stiff.. Strats play really easy.
But my Tele is still my #1...

If you have a Tele or Strat that's stiff, it's not set up very well.

If you have a Tele or Strat that's stiff, it's not set up very well.

i'll second that!..
when i got my Strat last May, it was setup badly..
i bought it NOS (literally, the guy said it was in the shop for 12 years or so)..

a setup by a pro did the job.. plus some fret dressing..
it played pretty well afterwards.. :grin:
no stiffness whatsoever..

teleclem:wink:

I have had 15 or so Strats some played stiff a few didnt. Doesnt matter how they are setup or string size some do have a stiff feel thats unexplainable.

I bought a 56 Relic Custom Shop mail order so I never got to try it. Played it and the strings felt like cheese cutters. It killed my fingers. 10 mins and that was it I couldnt play any longer my fingers felt like they did in 1966 when I first started playing.

I really liked the guitars sound so I tried 9's still stiff. Tried adusting the neck with different relief still stiff, tried all kinds of different bridge and spring tensions. I tried everything the nut was fine it was all adjusted good I just couldnt make it play right. So I sent it back and got a 54 Relic that played perfect.

Set it up right, tweak it a bit... it'll loosen up...

I bought a 56 Relic Custom Shop mail order so I never got to try it. Played it and the strings felt like cheese cutters. It killed my fingers.

Maybe the "10/56" neck was difficult for you???

both my strat and tele have been "stiff" at one time or another, however, after playing with the set up they have both come into their own. Both feel and play great. I play with elevens and bend up to minor third (sometimes major) are not that difficult.

Mark is onto what I'm talking about. Sometimes no amount of setup will do the trick. If it plays stiff on the showroom floor, it's probably going to be stiff period. So why?

hal, I agree, some guitars are just like that and I am at a loss to explain it also.

In case you weren't aware, Fenders have a 25 1/2" vibrating string length as compared to Gibson's 24 3/4" vibrating string length. This makes fenders feel stiffer by comparison. The longer string needs to be pulled tighter to reach pitch.

When I shop, I look for guitars that have a 25 1/2" scale that play slinky and guitars with the 24 3/4" scale that play a little stiff. This way I can play .009 -.042 on my Fenders and .009 - .046 on my Gibsons. Works for me.

I always had the impression that strats were hard to play. I remember reading an article where Jeff Beck said he switched from Les Pauls to strats because they put up more of a fight.
That all went out the window when I bought my first strat, an '87 American standard. That guitar was so easy to play I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. It could be because of the 9.5" neck, but my '62 reissue plays just as easy.
I do notice both my strat and tele feel "stiff" with .010 gauge strings, so I always use .009's on Fenders and .010's on Gibsons.

I play tens on all my electrics. And yes, the shorter scale guitars are easier to play as a rule.

Just try this--play as many Strats as you can at a store. You will find one or two that are easier to play, regardless of price, setup, fret size, neck radius, etc. I don't know why that is and nobody can tell me. It's one of the great mysteries of the guitar world.

Agreed hal. I have 12 guitars and have built several over the years. It's always a crap shoot. You never know what it's going to play like until it's built and you're playing it. Some are gems. Some hang on the wall. Some are especially appreciated by others even though I can't get along with them personally. I guess we all like different things!

By stiff, do you mean they play hard, you do have to work them harder than say a Les Paul, but that's what I like about Fenders, it brings the player out more IMO.

My Strat seemed a bit stiff when I got it, but then I was used to 9's, not the 10's it came with. Now it's better. I guess I'm like Jeff Beck in one respect; I want the strings not fight me a bit when I bend them, or hit them hard.

One thing I've noticed about Strats is that compared to a Tele, the Strat kind of faces upward (so you can see more of the fretboard) because of the tummy cut. That puts my hand in a slightly more awkward position, having to curl around the fretboard more. I find that it slows down my playing just a hair and makes the guitar feel stiffer to play. When I sit to play, there isn't much difference but the angle when standing is enough different. I'm not sure what to do about this, probably nothing, but I'm just not quite as fluid with my Strat as I am with my Teles.

-alotas

Maybe the "10/56" neck was difficult for you???

No it wasnt the neck profile. I love big necks. Ive been working with guitars since 1970 playing since 1966 and never really had this prob before.

9's felt like 12's the strings actually felt like the guitar was tuned up to F or F# they were just real stiff. I tried different brands of strings everything worked on it 4-5 hours a day for 2 weeks gave up sent it back and the 54 I got in its place was perfect in everyway.

I couldnt come up with a logical explaination. Other Strats I have owned were like this but not as bad as the 56.

Mark is onto what I'm talking about. Sometimes no amount of setup will do the trick. If it plays stiff on the showroom floor, it's probably going to be stiff period. So why?

This is the only thing about guitars I have never been able to figure out.

I do know its the neck but dont know what makes 1 guitar play fine and the one next to it same brand color everything play stiff.

Here is the part that doesnt make sense.

You can have 2 Strats same year color model everything relief set the same on both .012 tremelo claw same distance from the body so same spring tension same strings same windings on the tuners everything on each guitar setup identical. One of them will play fine and the other will feel like its got strings about 2 sizes bigger cause its so stiff.

If anyone can come up with a logical explaination lets hear it cause I cant.

my '66 always played kind of stiff, which worked fine for me when I would gig with only one guitar -- I'd leave a .10 set on there with a high E switched out for an .11, leave the action kind of medium and play slide when I wanted to & regular the rest of the time -- kind of a bear but I could get around on it OK.

Now I use a separate slide guitar & wanted the action to be as loose & easy as my tele. I got the guys at Music One in Kalispell on the case, swapped the strings for .09s, played around with the neck set & relief & now it plays super-easy. It doesn't sound anywhere near as good as it used to, though.

Mark is describing what I am talking about perfectly.

I always felt that Strats were among the least stiff guitars.
I figure it's because the bridge moves while bending.
+1

Interesting thread. Reminds me of my quest for a guitar that didn't cause me pain.

After about 25 yrs playing anything and everything with no problems, I developed some nasty pain and stiffness in my left wrist and hand. Exercise, ultrasound, and a guitar that fell at just the right angles and didn't fight back were the answer.

I ended up with a USAC strat using a neck with 24-3/4" scale & a fat back shape, body without the tummy cut (because of the reason Alotas raised), hardtail, and a great setup.

I gig weekly now, no problems. Not much Strat left to this guitar, though.

maybe they need a SET UP badly????

......and I disagree with the widely-held axiom that any guitar can be set up to play right for you. Some guitars just feel stiff to me, some are like butter.

I've encountered Mark's experience before with various guitars--that no matter what you try, they just don't feel right, and not just on cheap guitars either. Ironically, some cheapies have been among the easiest to play!

That said, I believe MOST guitars can be set up to your liking if you spend enough time with it.

I have played a few Strats that were very stiff feeling--but have played several that were among the easiest to play guitars I've ever owned.

It's not just strats that seem to be "stiff", try Les Pauls. One out of a 100 will have the feel I'm looking for.

That's been the opposite of my experience! The shorter scale, flatter fretboard, etc on an LP make it one of the easiest playing guitars of all time for me. I can get virtually any LP set LOW with slinky feeling string tension, just how I like it.

I always thought a good correct setup could change any guitar into a good playing one but that just isnt true. I have found the same thing on Teles too. So it doesnt have anything to do with the bridge.

I have brought this upo before and no one can come up with a logical answer. Some people say the one thats playing stiff has too much neck relief but on that 56 I had that played so stiff I set the relief all over the place trying to get it to play good. I worked on it everyday for 2 weeks. If it was a setup issue during one of the 10-15 string changes to different brands and sizes and different adjustments I would have come up with the right combo.

Thats why its important to try all guitars before you buy them cause you might get a stiff one mail order and if you do there isnt much to do to correct it.

I know this is just a crazed, stab-in-the-dark question, but is it possible to have any variance in scale length? I realize they're pretty careful about that, but I'm thinking that, if the nut or bridge is just slightly off from the exact 25.5" scale, it would increase string tension a little bit, which would probably make it feel stiff.

For me--as Telenator has pointed out-- it was the scale length...after a lifetime of Gibsons, I bought my first strat having no idea there even was a difference in scale lengths, and spent the first month alternating between selling it and keeping it, just because of the perceived 'stiffness'.

But after another month I had completely adjusted to it [at about the same time I 'discovered' the difference in scale lengths], and now, 3 years later, switch between 24 3/4 and 25 1/2 without a hitch.

I mean they are hard to move on the neck quickly, hard to bend strings--just stiff.

I have owned about 12 Strats in my life. Never completely bonded with any of them. I recently went on an all out Strat search. Mayer, EC, EJ, MIM, Classic, Custom Classic, Custom Shop, Knopfler, Hiway 1, American--you name it, I played it. I ended up with an American Standard because it played the best period. By the way, it was just this one--I played 3 others that were not as good.

So what's the deal? Fret size, spring tension, neck radius, neck tilt? Today I had some time to kill so I went to my local store and played every Strat that had a decent weight--probably about 10 total. The best player was a 50's Player Strat--MIM but designed by the Custom Shop. It played better than all three Custom Shop Strats that cost 4 times as much.

One more thing--can you set up any Strat so it will not play stiff? If so, how? Bring it on TDPRI members and thanks.

i have had four strats with different feels...my standard strat and squier strat had 7.5" inch radius fretboards and though they had the best vintage tones, i could not get the action too low or else they would buzz on bends

so the american standard strat with the flatter 10" inch radius was better for that and i could lower the action a bit

and the strat ultra i had sported a very flat, and obviously ibanez, charvel, and jackson inspired, 12" inch radius and i could lower the action all the way and make it great for sweep picking, two hand pulloffs and all the fast stuff without fret buzz

but i actually preferred the stiffer 7.5" inch fretboards because the super flat radius was too slinky

oh, and the 25.5" inch fender scale length makes for tightening the strings a bit more than a 24.75" gibson scale length for the same key

Maybe:
1. Proper setup?
2. Too many moving parts (the bridge)? Too many variables?

The floating bridge, springs, and 6 saddles (12 adjustment screws).

Some of Gibson's limited edition ES-135's had saddles that rattled and buzzed (poorly fitted saddles and/or retaining wire). Quality can stray easier when more parts are involved (especially dynamic as opposed to static parts)... if it's a bridge, that could mean harsher action.

Regardless, I HATE Strats, but my personal experience has been that they've been very easy to play, for me. Strange...

Its kinda weird, because I just posted a similar question over at thegearpage, but I was trying to figure out why my Tele has a much stiffer feel to than my Strat? Is it okay to post a link to a thread on another site? I hope so - here it is. Let me know if its not cool and I'll remove the link. Most people seem to point to an issue with the setup of the guitar.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=197653

That's been the opposite of my experience! The shorter scale, flatter fretboard, etc on an LP make it one of the easiest playing guitars of all time for me. I can get virtually any LP set LOW with slinky feeling string tension, just how I like it.



Next time I go looking for a Les Paul I want to go where YOU are shopping!

To be honest tho, I'm sticking with my 81 LP Standard Goldtop. I REFUSE to pay the idiotic amounts Gibson now wants for Les Pauls.

Next time I go looking for a Les Paul I want to go where YOU are shopping!

To be honest tho, I'm sticking with my 81 LP Standard Goldtop. I REFUSE to pay the idiotic amounts Gibson now wants for Les Pauls.
.....I'd love to have a VOS Goldtop, but 3 grand?!?

I don't think so! (Especially not when the car I drive to work everyday is probably worth $1000 LOL)

.....I'd love to have a VOS Goldtop, but 3 grand?!?

I don't think so! (Especially not when the car I drive to work everyday is probably worth $1000 LOL)

for fender stuff, i can deal with a new american standard tele or highway 1 tele, but new les paul standards and customs are off the hook

i got my les paul custom used for $550 in the late 90s...during the same time i got an american standard stratocaster new from guitar center for $599

now fender stuff can also be unreasonable like the custom shop teles and strats which can usually start in the $2000 dollar range for a basic model, and up to $10,000 grand for one with a non standard feature and/or very special finish...i would like a special order, one of a kind, certified axe with an ash or alder tele body with a hand tooled leather top, back, and sides with all metal parts made of engraved .925 sterling silver but i would not want to know what that costs

for a humbucker equipped guitar, i would settle for a comparitively economically priced esp custom shop, one of a kind, viper solidbody, bolt on maple neck with rosewood fretboard, dual antiquity duncans, and nitro silver sparkle finish for $4800 dollars (fallon of kitty had one like that)

and to top things off, i would go to cf martin and have him build me a dreadnaught and go to d'angelico guitar company and have them build me a new yorker

I think it might have something to do with the various break angles along the string length. Just adjusting a string tree can affect the feel of a guitar.

maybe you're stretching the strings when you bend?

New Strat generally are stuff at first and need some break in time, just like new amps that tubes and speaker replace they just take to break.

I'm suprise it took 12 strat finally get the right one.

I've had this problem and currently im working on setting up my Strat perfectly for my playing style....I agree with both sides on this matter. Some guitars are just stiff due to an anamoly and some are silk, but i do believe that most strats can be set-up so they aren't stiff.

Hi Guys, i'm new here but would like to say that ease of playing is one of those mysteries of guitars in general.
I set up my strats and teles with the same strings and usually the same string height but recently did half a job on a MIM 60's strat and didn't measure the string height-result? Its the easiest playing guitar I've got! My usual string height is 2mm treble and 2.5mm bass, the 60's strat is about 2.7mm and 3.5mm, the difference is amazing, but does it mean that I try to have my strings(always 9/46) too low in the first place?

I've never really liked a strat straight off the shop wall. I find they always need a bit of adjustment.

I have been playing and screwing with guitars since I was 16 years old in 1963 and I cant tell you how many I have had in my hands since then. I can say without a doubt that I have owned guitars that were identical in every regard and had totally different feeling as to stiffness. Any guitar has numerous adjustable features that come into play in what we lovingly call "set-up" but there is one variable that we just cannot tweak and that is the wood itself and particulairly the neck wood. Neck wood can have the most effect on making or breaking that feeling you get when it is all good or all bad. I believe that is why your favorite neck becomes the mental standard that you want every guitar to feel like. I think that some necks have a wood density that just happens to give you that balance sensation, that fine line between string tension and neck tension that we call "stiffness". All things constant will still present TWO unconstant variables that play against each other. That is neck tension and string tension. This is a work in progress present in every guitar that is effected by time, temperature and humidity. I also believe that how you treat your guitar has something to do with that stiffness parameter. I have a few old favorite telies and strats that I "bonded with" over years of playing. Now having said that, I have also noticed that if I hang them by the neck as most music stores do, they almost always loose that balance and become stiff. Who among us has not pulled an old guitar out of the case and discovered a different guitar from the one you put in that case. Sometimes it's all good and sometimes it's all bad. That my stringed friends is why we give them womens names.
Rob (the other Rob)

I agree its the neck. Whats weird a non stiff one you can put on 9's-10's-11's and they all feel great. On a stiff one 9's feel like 12's tuned up 1 step to F.

I think we are getting close to figuring this one out. Maybe the necks stiffness or weakness when you bend the strings some necks stay the same stiffness and those are the easy ones to play on other necks when you play it or bend the strings the neck is weaker and it gives and bends which makes the strings harder to play adds more pressure to the strings??

A Quartersawn neck supposed to be stiffer than a flat sawn one maybe the Eric Johnson Strats reputation for having such a good neck has alot to do with the quartersawn process and they might be easier to play because the neck is stiff enough it doesnt move when you bend the strings.

Someone needs to find a big store that has around 15-25 Eric Johnson Strats in stock play them all and see if a stiff one shows up. That might help us prove this theory.

One thing I've noticed about Strats is that compared to a Tele, the Strat kind of faces upward (so you can see more of the fretboard) because of the tummy cut. That puts my hand in a slightly more awkward position, having to curl around the fretboard more. I find that it slows down my playing just a hair and makes the guitar feel stiffer to play. When I sit to play, there isn't much difference but the angle when standing is enough different. I'm not sure what to do about this, probably nothing, but I'm just not quite as fluid with my Strat as I am with my Teles.

-alotas

This actual makes a lot of sense to me. I can't play a tele worth a d*&n sitting down, but a strat? no problem. Plus, let's look at the facts: we're talking about WOOD here, neck and body. No two guitars are ever going to play alike, cuz no two pieces of wood are the same. It's entirely possible you could try 20 guitars in a week, all cut from the same forest or whatever (and some come from my neck of the woods, btw (Oregon/Washington)) and a year later, with a different batch and a wet season, the wood would be totally different. More give over time, more give in the spring than in the winter. Less tension, more tension. You get the idea.
I guess my advise would be to try guitars at different shops that get their inventory at different times. I've run into guitars at my local shop which are 2 to 4 years old, and if you don't think they feel different in terms of playability I've got this wonderful piece of swampland in Florida for ya....

I've just remembered another piece of "Guitar Shop Law" re Strats. A bloke looked into the back of a strat and said "I thought so, deep holes in the block, it always makes them easy to play". When I asked what he meant he stated that if the ball ends of the strings are right down the block then the string does not take so much tension to bring it up to pitch! I have seen the spec of the Eric Johnson Strat and there the ball ends are visible( to the naked eye!)

I've owned about 20-25 strats over the years and, some do feel "stiffer" than others. One thing I've noticed is that in general, maple neck strats tend to play stiffer than rosewood necks, although I've had a couple of maple necks that were very nice.

I just had a new neck a week ago an hard maple one and doing holes I broke a drill go figure...and the sound is a little muted and the feeling is stiffy, so I dont think the harder the better, I just gonna give it time to settle, but my first thought is this.

To my surprise the neck today played VERY differently. :mrgreen:
It seems another guitar just to be more precise.
As this change took place in 2 weeks, I think it has to be one (or more) of these causes:
1)The neck needed to settle well in the body :roll:
2)The change in temperature (I ordered it from usa) has tighten the wood and it needed time to relax again (more vibrant) :smile:
3)I loosened the TRUSS ROD :eek:

My feeling playing is that it seems that now the neck partecipates to the whole sound, is live and not a piece of iron (iron???...THE ROD!) I can feel the vibration of the strings up to my wrist, awesome!!!

If I should choose only one reason from the three I'll bet on the truss rod adjustment. So if some of you has this kind of situation and loosening the rod is safe you could try it.

my 2c

i'll second that!..
when i got my Strat last May, it was setup badly..
i bought it NOS (literally, the guy said it was in the shop for 12 years or so)..

a setup by a pro did the job.. plus some fret dressing..
it played pretty well afterwards.. :grin:
no stiffness whatsoever..

teleclem:wink:


what does NOS mean?


Rock on

what does NOS mean?

New Old Stock...

my strats are super loose. its all in how you set it up

Take two guitars; one "stiff", the other, "not stiff".
Switch necks and adjust accordingly. Check the results.
Did the "stiffness" follow the neck?

Well I found a 62 RI Hot Rod that plays great, so my 50th anniversary American is for sale in the classifieds. And it plays GREAT.

This 62 plays great as well. I went through a bunch of Strats at all prices to get to this one. And my experience is that if it's stiff playing to start with, no amount of tweaking is going to fix it. Stay tuned for pictures and somebody buy that guitar!

My Mexicaster is very slinky.
Even with the bridge flush to the body.
I think low action makes a guitar feel stiffer when bending.

I'll send you one of my magical Acoustic guitars.

It needs landing lights to bring the strings down safely.....I guarantee that if you practice scales on that guitar for 1 hour a day, for 2 weeks while chanting "ali baa baa... ali baa baa" your electric guitar will magically be fixed.

A stiff guitar can be caused by several factors. Strings. Action. Neck relief. But one that no one has yet to mention, unless I missed it, is neck angle. How it sits in the neck pocket. I think that is the one factor most don't mess with. But I think that if you do a normal setup to loosen up a guitar, and it doesn't, it is the neck angle. Such a small adjustment can make a huge difference. I remember when Taylor first came out Bob Taylor wrote and article about playability and talked about this. So someone agrees with me. LOL! Now my new MIM Strat played nice and loose, till I put on a set of DR Pure Blues the other night. 10-46. Now the strings feel like cheese cutters. I will give them time to see how they break in. Ernie Ball Regular SLinkys didn't feel this way. Nor sis Fenders, but they break way to easy. Just my $.02.

Bill

ali baa baa...ali baa baa... ali baa baa...

Now that I'm down here I know less then when I was up there.

=O.

A stiff guitar can be caused by several factors. Strings. Action. Neck relief. But one that no one has yet to mention, unless I missed it, is neck angle. How it sits in the neck pocket. I think that is the one factor most don't mess with. But I think that if you do a normal setup to loosen up a guitar, and it doesn't, it is the neck angle. Such a small adjustment can make a huge difference. I remember when Taylor first came out Bob Taylor wrote and article about playability and talked about this. So someone agrees with me. LOL! Now my new MIM Strat played nice and loose, till I put on a set of DR Pure Blues the other night. 10-46. Now the strings feel like cheese cutters. I will give them time to see how they break in. Ernie Ball Regular SLinkys didn't feel this way. Nor sis Fenders, but they break way to easy. Just my $.02.

Bill

Explain this, please. Are you saying that if you shim the neck to increase the neck angle, this loosens or stiffens the guitar?

It would seem that increasing the neck angle would make the strings seem stiffer.

Therefore on a normal fender w/o a neck shim--ie no neck angle, how do you decrease the neck angle? :confused:

or am I missing something?

A slight truss rod adjustment and raise the action if needed should loosen any strat up. Strats love a higher action (Raise neck p/u about 1/2 turn)
I have owned about 15 and that does the trick. I presently have 3 EJ's 1 SRV and a mid 80's MIJ and they all need a little tweak about twice a year. I play 10's on the EJ and 11's on the SRV(in Eb)

If you are a shredder just slap on some 9's

I believe that is why your favorite neck becomes the mental standard that you want every guitar to feel like. [B]I think that some necks have a wood density that just happens to give you that balance sensation, that fine line between string tension and neck tension that we call "stiffness".

Couldn't have said it better.

I've owned many more necks than bodies, but the best one I ever had was a '57 RI that I bought back in the late 80's. It played and sounded awesome on every slab that I bolted it to. I wish I still had it. Pure magic...

For your given action-- a saddle's breakangle can make an immense difference in tension.
Two Strats-- same radius and action: But for one the saddles are lower for that same action (the neck is in pocket deeper. That one should play a 'bit' easier.
On Am Std Strats--- the string mounts well into the block. Compered to a trad block where the strings mount at the end of the block--- the AM Std will play a bit more loosey-goosey...

On both types of trems-- if you float the bridge and have the saddles LOW for your given action it will be looser tension.

Truss rod and nut definiteley play into this too.

On both types of trems-- if you float the bridge and have the saddles LOW for your given action it will be looser tension.

Ditto what you just said Doug 54. I was reading through the thread and going to say exactly the same thing.

Ditto what you just said Doug 54. I was reading through the thread and going to say exactly the same thing.

Hmm; if I'm reading this correctly my experience has been different. If I'm doing bends on a Strat with a floating trem then I'm having to bend against both string AND spring tension. A hard tail or Strat with everything screwed down hard always seems easier to play. Also a slightly higher than usual action makes getting a good tone easier and makes bends and vibrato more comfortable.

i had a strat for 18 years, and got rid of it 11 years ago. i felt that it played a tad stiff and i could do a lot more on the 76 tele i had and still have.

after all of these years, i recently i bought a new strat and set it up like my tele (and other guitars i own). this one feels a little stiff, too. im not as fluid on it as when i play the old tele or some of the newer ones ive aquired in the last 5 years.

maybe i just fit better with the teles; or maybe the one poster is right about the tremelo making them a little on the stiffer side, as both strats had non locked tremolo with springs.

interesting...


imho.

rand z tropicalsoul.net

One thing I always look at on strat necks is how deep the difference is between the fretboard surface and the headstock surface.

There seems to be a fairly large range of different depths. This affects the break angle at the nut, which I think may be a big factor here.

I've always preferred the ones with a more shallow depth. I'll compensate on the deeper ones by winding the strings closer to the tops of the pegs.

This is the same reason a lot of people have problems with tuning, too.

for fender stuff, i can deal with a new american standard tele or highway 1 tele, but new les paul standards and customs are off the hook

i got my les paul custom used for $550 in the late 90s...during the same time i got an american standard stratocaster new from guitar center for $599

now fender stuff can also be unreasonable like the custom shop teles and strats which can usually start in the $2000 dollar range for a basic model, and up to $10,000 grand for one with a non standard feature and/or very special finish...i would like a special order, one of a kind, certified axe with an ash or alder tele body with a hand tooled leather top, back, and sides with all metal parts made of engraved .925 sterling silver but i would not want to know what that costs

for a humbucker equipped guitar, i would settle for a comparitively economically priced esp custom shop, one of a kind, viper solidbody, bolt on maple neck with rosewood fretboard, dual antiquity duncans, and nitro silver sparkle finish for $4800 dollars (fallon of kitty had one like that)

and to top things off, i would go to cf martin and have him build me a dreadnaught and go to d'angelico guitar company and have them build me a new yorker

Yeah, Gibsons and Fenders have gotten REALLY expensive in the last few years. I got a new Les Paul studio for $600 in 1994 and now they are going for twice that. Fortunately, there are several custom builders that can build you up a guitar for the same price as an American made Fender.

My experiance with strats leads me to come to the conclusion that the cheaper strats are more stiff than a quality strat, manufacturer doesn't matter.