Bill Haley's 13 Women - chords?

I used to do this about a million years ago, but I can't for the life of me remember how the ascending progression during the chorus goes. Doing the song in Fm.

Is it Fm-Abm-Bbm-Dm, or Fm-Abm-Dbm-Em, or something totally different? I thought there was a maj7 in there somewhere, but I'm blanking.

Can anybody help me out?

I used to do this about a million years ago, but I can't for the life of me remember how the ascending progression during the chorus goes. Doing the song in Fm.

Is it Fm-Abm-Bbm-Dm, or Fm-Abm-Dbm-Em, or something totally different? I thought there was a maj7 in there somewhere, but I'm blanking.

Can anybody help me out?

Do you have a link to the song?
R & roll is fairly open to the ear regarding chord work.

Do you have a link to the song?
R & roll is fairly open to the ear regarding chord work.

I don't know that I have a link to it. It's not as predictable as one would think for early Rock & Roll.

I think it's probably the Fm-Abm (raining the chord by a minor third) and then doing the same over the IV chord (Bbm-Dbm), althoug the other way would make it sound really diminished.

Hey, I listened to both the Bill Haley version and Danny's recording of it, and it's Fm - Ab7 - Db7 - Gb7. (They're more clearly 7ths on the original, while Danny plays them more like "power chord" root + 5ths. Also, on the Bill Haley cut, the bass walks down from the Db to a Bb, which I guess would make it a Bbm7 for a couple of beats... ),

Oh, and there's a really cool guitar lick* over the Gb7 on the '50s cut, and sure enough, Danny plays the same lick in his version. I swear, he never forgot any lick he ever learned – or where he got it from... whew. ;-) CS

* The cool lick:

--6--4----------------
--------5--------------
-----------6--5--4--3
------------------------
------------------------
------------------------

Over a Gb7, it's 3 - 9 - b7 - 5 - b5 - 4 - 3. Enjoy. :-)

Hey, I listened to both the Bill Haley version and Danny's recording of it, and it's Fm - Ab7 - Db7 - Gb7. (They're more clearly 7ths on the original, while Danny plays them more like "power chord" root + 5ths. Also, on the Bill Haley cut, the bass walks down from the Db to a Bb, which I guess would make it a Bbm7 for a couple of beats... ),

Oh, and there's a really cool guitar lick* over the Gb7 on the '50s cut, and sure enough, Danny plays the same lick in his version. I swear, he never forgot any lick he ever learned – or where he got it from... whew. ;-) CS

* The cool lick:

--6--4----------------
--------5--------------
-----------6--5--4--3
------------------------
------------------------
------------------------

Over a Gb7, it's 3 - 9 - b7 - 5 - b5 - 4 - 3. Enjoy. :-)

Ok....presuming it's the same one.
I found your song. If you had mentioned it was the B side to rock around the clock, I'd have stood a better chance, lol.
Chris is definitely in the right ball park, but we are talking about in my opinion, one of the greatest guitar players that ever lived here, in Danny Cedrone, and things are a little more subtle. One of Danny's talents was the ability to imply a voicing, by playing partial chords, letting the bass lines, and wonderfull little licks create a feeling of movement. Kind of the whole band each having a piece of the chord. Chris is much better qualified to explain that in detail, but this is how I see the song, from a slightly different perspective:
I look at the lick as being a C#6 (Db6) to C#m lick, which implies a movement to the Gb7, but in my head, the Gb7 isn't played by guitar, OR by the band (SEE THE BASS RUN THROUGH C TO F). Even though the lick is a perfect Gb7 lick.
The bass implies a quick shift to the G#7/Ab7 back to the Fm, but closer listening implies it's actually moving instead to an Ab6. Here's the subtle bit. I believe the chord played here is an Ab6 (G shape) XX1111 (almost the same as an Fm7) and it is the lick (432 on the E string played, by the wind instrument) that gives the b7th note for the resulting Ab7 chord. (Great subtleness.)
I also believe the chord before the lick is a Db6, BUT using only the d,g,and b strings XX666X . WHY? The E string 6th fret being very quiet here , because it is the first note of the lick Chris transposed, which creates the Db6th. See the 5th and 6th lines of my post. If i was to play a chord over that lick, i would play the resulting 5th of the Gb7th which is the C#7th, or maybe even just the C#m as the B which makes it a 7th is already in the lick.
I hope Chris will see i'm right, and explain why what i've said works , in easier terms, as he seems to be better with the theory than i am, but try what i've said yourself, and i think you'll be happier with the result from a playing perspective.:smile:

I agree, Danny Cedrone was great. :-)

FF, I puzzled over your post for awhile, trying to figure out what it was you were saying, but I'm sorry, I'm confused. :-(

Anyway, the notes of the lick in question are (descending) Bb - Ab - E - Db - C - B - Bb.

The reason I analyzed them in terms of a Gb7 chord is because that's the chord they're being played over (hence 3 - 9 - b7 - 5 - b5 - 4 - 3 ...).

The reason it's a Gb7 is because the notes that make up the chord are Gb - Bb - Db - E (actually Fb, but enharmonically it's the same note).

The reason the Gb7 works is because it's a tritone substitution for C7, which is the V chord in the key of Fm. Its harmonic function is to resolve to the tonic.

If you're hearing something different, I'm not sure what to tell you. :confused: I can only go by what I hear. :oops: Hope it helps, CS

I agree, Danny Cedrone was great. :-)

FF, I puzzled over your post for awhile, trying to figure out what it was you were saying, but I'm sorry, I'm confused. :-(

Anyway, the notes of the lick in question are (descending) Bb - Ab - E - Db - C - B - Bb.

The reason I analyzed them in terms of a Gb7 chord is because that's the chord they're being played over (hence 3 - 9 - b7 - 5 - b5 - 4 - 3 ...).

The reason it's a Gb7 is because the notes that make up the chord are Gb - Bb - Db - E (actually Fb, but enharmonically it's the same note).

The reason the Gb7 works is because it's a tritone substitution for C7, which is the V chord in the key of Fm. Its harmonic function is to resolve to the tonic.

If you're hearing something different, I'm not sure what to tell you. :confused: I can only go by what I hear. :oops: Hope it helps, CS

Chris.
Please bear with me here, as i'm gonna do my best to explain what i meant. There are differing uses of the guitar over the different bridges/chorus's.
I agreed earlier that it be considered a Gb7 lick, but in my opinion, the Gb7 chord itself doesn't work in this particular song, over the lick itself. Only what i'm thinking remember :-) .
In the first " funny how it may be", i think the guitar goes :As 'be' is spoken, the guitar on the E string plays G#, G, F#, whilst the rhythm guitar plays XX1111 over the F# note. Then the next chord 'would' be a Db6, X46666, but played like this XX666X , without the Bb on the 'E' string, so the first note, Eb' on the riff becomes prominant. There is no chord played over the riff, but if there was, it would be a C#m or C#m7, not a Gb7, even though the notes of the riff suggest otherwise.
At the 2nd time we reach the bridge/chorus (is it classed as a chorus ?), as we get to " it was something i can't forget", the bass implies the chords G#7, G7, though i don't hear guitar there, but that's what i'd play. A wind instrument plays the G#, G, F# this time round. Then we have the Db6 thing again, then the big riff , then the bass run from the C# bass note, again prompting the need for a C#m7 chord, or even just a Cm.
In the third chorus, shall we say, it is different again slightly:
After "can't tell you where i've been", the guitar play's the riff G#, G, F# this time, before a possible flick of an Ebm 6th fret before hitting the D6 again. Then the big riff. Again i can't hear it fall on the Gb7 as a chord.
It takes me so long to type, that i find it hard to keep focused,lol, but i hope it explains some what, how i would play this tune.
Wish i had that little extra theory to explain better, but it's difficult if your not with me,lol.

n.b.

I've noiced and corrected 'an error' on my first post, in which i wrote 7 th fret, instead of 6th..ie: should read:

I also believe the chord before the lick is a Db6, BUT using only the d,g,and b strings XX666X . WHY? The E string 6th fret being very quiet here , because it is the first note of the lick Chris transposed, which creates the Db6th.

It's not as predictable as one would think for early Rock & Roll.

See what I mean? :smile: I mean, Chris' explanation almost makes it a ii-V swich, but there is some diminished weirdness going on!

Such a great tune, though. The solo sounds more like Franny Beecher's playing than Danny Cedrone's, but I think it's too early in time to be Beecher. It's got a wild edge to it - emnotion-wise, it makes Gatton's version look a little more polite and polished.

Guys: Here's how the bridge goes:

Fm
"And as funny as it may be"

Ab7 (Here's that little Ab - G - Gb lick you're referring to... )

Db7
"The one and only man in...

Gb7
... town was me" (Here's the lick I was originally referring to, played in 16th note triplets under the vocal line... )

[If you want the theoretical explanation, the chords are based on the cycle of fifths starting on the Ab. This gives you V of V of bII ("five of five of flat two"), which as mentioned earlier is the tritone substitution for the V chord, and resolves to the tonic... ]

Hope that clears it up. :-) CS

Guys: Here's how the bridge goes:

Fm
"And as funny as it may be"

Ab7 (Here's that little Ab - G - Gb lick you're referring to... )

Db7
"The one and only man in...

Gb7
... town was me" (Here's the lick I was originally referring to, played in 16th note triplets under the vocal line... )

[If you want the theoretical explanation, the chords are based on the cycle of fifths starting on the Ab. This gives you V of V of bII ("five of five of flat two"), which as mentioned earlier is the tritone substitution for the V chord, and resolves to the tonic... ]

Hope that clears it up. :-) CS

I'm still at odds with a few things, but what's important is the guy has enough for his tune i think.
For the life of me, in the Comets version, i can't hear an Ab7 strum, from the chord, only a 6th. But the lick has the 7th. I definitely can't hear a Db7, ( thats a huge note for me not to hear if it exists?) again only the notes of what i figured to be a partial 6 chord, and as there isn't any voicings on the big lick, except the C # note of the bass, i guess both chords work, as the C# is the 5th of the Gb7.
Anyway, regardless of whats right or wrong, i think thats another great song regardless well and truly disected.
Next....the Gatton version me thinks.:lol:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele295
It's not as predictable as one would think for early Rock & Roll.


See what I mean? I mean, Chris' explanation almost makes it a ii-V swich, but there is some diminished weirdness going on!

Such a great tune, though. The solo sounds more like Franny Beecher's playing than Danny Cedrone's, but I think it's too early in time to be Beecher. It's got a wild edge to it - emnotion-wise, it makes Gatton's version look a little more polite and polished.

If you take the b and c out of that lick, theres a great lot of fun to be had with it. There is a temptation to look for a dim or aug chord, but i figured in this case it wasn't necessary. The voicings didn't quite fit.
Your welcome anyway, lol.

http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/images/smilies/shrug.gif

http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/images/smilies/shrug.gif

AW SHUCKS.
Don't be like that Chris. I can't help what i hear dude, and i think we're buddy enough by now to see the funny side, lol.
But there's times when you have to throw the theory away, and just play. :lol: :lol:

Be like what? That little smiley was a shrug, as in "I don't know what else to say." :confused: Miles wanted to know what the chords to the song were, so I listened to it, and told him. I also explained how those chords function in that context. Again, I can only go by what I hear also. :oops:

If I look at a traffic signal, and I see the colors red, yellow and green, I'll tell you the colors are red, yellow and green. If you look at the same traffic signal and see the colors as purple, orange and blue, I don't know where to go from there. ?? I can't give a theoretical explanation for why those colors would be there, because that's not what I see. So... http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/images/smilies/shrug.gif

But we can agree to disagree, that's cool. :cool:

CS

Be like what? That little smiley was a shrug, as in "I don't know what else to say." :confused: Miles wanted to know what the chords to the song were, so I listened to it, and told him. I also explained how those chords function in that context. Again, I can only go by what I hear also.

If I look at a traffic signal, and I see the colors red, yellow and green, I'll tell you the colors are red, yellow and green. If you look at the same traffic signal and see the colors as purple, orange and blue, I don't know where to go from there. ?? I can't give a theoretical explanation for why those colors would be there, because that's not what I see. So... http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/images/smilies/shrug.gif

But we can agree to disagree, that's cool. :cool:

CS

Guys

This has been great fun to follow. I'm practicing with my band tonight and as I believe we have lifted the embargo on new tunes (we've got a big gig next month and we've been rehearsing the same stuff for ages) I'm going to suggest this one. No, in fact, I'm just going to play it and see if everyone joins in!

Hey Chris, I got my Bardens sorted. I sent that broken neck pick up to Frank and Joe and they are going to repair it. And they've sorted out a bridge pick up too!

:grin: Peter

Be like what? That little smiley was a shrug, as in "I don't know what else to say." :confused: Miles wanted to know what the chords to the song were, so I listened to it, and told him. I also explained how those chords function in that context. Again, I can only go by what I hear also. If I look at a traffic signal, and I see the colors red, yellow and green, I'll tell you the colors are red, yellow and green. If you look at the same traffic signal and see the colors as purple, orange and blue, I don't know where to go from there. ?? I can't give a theoretical explanation for why those colors would be there, because that's not what I see. So... http://www.surromomsonline.com/support/images/smilies/shrug.gif

But we can agree to disagree, that's cool.

CS

Your a good guy Chris. I hope those lights stay green for ya buddy.:grin:
Petty Miles didn't get the beers in for your efforts though, or mine for that matter,lol. We spent a good few hours on that mother, but i enjoyed it immensely. By the way Miles, where's my tab for the 48th bar etc on Nocturne dude? I thought you were the main man for D,G, lol.
I knew about the smiley by the way. Is there a good jazz tab for georgia on my mind in your collection anywhere ? I learned a Martin Taylor version a while back with all the harmony's and bass lines, but never got round to finishing the mid section. The style was a bit too complicated for me to create one from memory, and i think i should rebuild it from scratch.
Used to play it in 'E', but dont care which key really. I tend to use the parts i learned as a solo these day's. There was also a great Frank Evans version of 'misty' floating round at one time, which i wouldn't mind tracking down. Boy, can that guy play. My fake book is lacking those songs. It's the Warner brothers Bb version, which i got to play with a big band years ago.

Peter:
What kind of stuff are you currently playing bud?
Always good to hear other bands set lists.:grin:

Peter:
What kind of stuff are you currently playing bud?
Always good to hear other bands set lists.:grin:

Anything and everything.

Our current set list comprises:


Johnny Cash
Elvis
Creedance
Paul Weller
The Jam
Bryan Adams
Bruce Springstein
Bob Dylan
Micky Kemp (a good friend of mine)
Bill Kirchen
Bill Hayley (guess which one!)
Buddy Holly
etc.


We've got two sets. Stuff people want to hear and Stuff we want to play. Great fun. I'm loving it!

:grin: Peter

Anything and everything.

Our current set list comprises:


Johnny Cash
Elvis
Creedance
Paul Weller
The Jam
Bryan Adams
Bruce Springstein
Bob Dylan
Micky Kemp (a good friend of mine)
Bill Kirchen
Bill Hayley (guess which one!)
Buddy Holly
etc.


We've got two sets. Stuff people want to hear and Stuff we want to play. Great fun. I'm loving it!

:grin: Peter

Thank's Peter.
Always interests me :-)
I take it your friend Mickey Kemp is the surrey r & roller?
Thought i'd check the name out. I take it he's not related to the brothers then.
I've been pondering over which Bill haley record you do. Damned if i can put my finger on that one bud ?? But if your ever stuck for a chord :wink: :lol:
I'm interested why you chose to slip our old mate Mr Weller in that list, lol.
He's a great writer, but a bit different from the others. Surprising, but in a positive way, lol. Cool.

Uereka...the lights have changed at last, lol.
Chris...i hold my hands up. I can now actually hear why the Gb7 works.
I went outside and played it in the car, lol. Jeez i need to get some better phones. Do you know whats bugging me though, and why i liked the C#m7 ?
It's the damn bass running up and down from C# over the Gb. So i had the root, with the bass, and the lick also plays tones from the C#m7 chord.
I still think you could play the C#m7, but the Gb7 works better for me now, than it did, and i think your right. Still can't hear a 7th in the Db though. I think i'm in the ball park with the rest of it, lol.
Wanna try and explain why it's so touch and go,lol.

I can now actually hear why the Gb7 works.
Hey, congrats. :-)

Jeez i need to get some better phones.
Nah, throw the phones away and get some speakers. Oh, and treat yourself to a copy of the Amazing Slow Downer. (www.ronimusic.com) It's only $45 (USD) and it makes life SO much easier – I just wish I'd had something like it 40 years ago. ;-)

I still think you could play the C#m7
First off, call it a Dbm7. F is a flat key (the key signature contains one flat) so non-diatonic chords normally get labeled with their "flat" spelling (e.g., Ab NOT G# etc.)

But secondly, play this:

-----------------
-----------------
--1--5--4--3--
--3--4--3--2--
-----------------
-----------------

Play it over and over again, one beat each, until you can hear how those notes resolve to the beginning chord. What you're playing, btw, is the root and third of the Fmin, followed by the tritones that constitute the 3rd and 7th of the following chords (Ab7, Db7 & Gb7 respectively). Hear how each one resolves into the next? That's why the progression works the way it does.

Still can't hear a 7th in the Db though.
Keep playing the notes above until you get the sound firmly in your ear, then add the roots:

-----------------
-----------------
--1--5--4--3--
--3--4--3--2--
---------4-------
--1--4------2--

Can you hear it now? :cool:

As a contrast, try playing the Db chord with a flatted 3rd (i.e., Dbm7):

-----------------
-----------------
--1--5--4--3--
--3--4--2--2--
---------4-------
--1--4------2--

Can you hear how that doesn't work? :sad: (Or at least, not as well, certainly not in that context... ) That's why there's no Dbm7 in the progression.

Wanna try and explain why it's so touch and go,lol.
Remember the joke about the guy in New York City who asks a cab driver "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?"

"Practice, practice, practice." :mrgreen: Hope it helps, CS :-)

I take it your friend Mickey Kemp is the surrey r & roller?
Thought i'd check the name out. I take it he's not related to the brothers then.

That's the man! He's a good pal with Bill Kirchen too and normally supports Bill when he comes to the UK. No, he's not related to the other Kemps. :lol:

I'm interested why you chose to slip our old mate Mr Weller in that list, lol.
He's a great writer, but a bit different from the others. Surprising, but in a positive way, lol. Cool.

Yeah, different but as you said, in a positive way. The whole band liked the Jam / Weller sound and it was THE stuff when I was a lad, so we're reliving our youths.

:grin: Peter