$vboptions[bbtitle]

Distortion pedal for 80's thrash.

pachap
March 21st, 2014, 09:16 PM
Got a CVC Tele with some GFS rail humbuckers and Blues Jr. I want a pedal to get some Metallica and Megadeth sounds, or as least as close as I can with my current rig. My next guitar will help get me there, but name a few budget pedals that will help me out.

FWIW, I am running a GFS Greenie, a Brownie, and Digitech Screamin' Blues that I am in love with.

Key word is "budget".

Leep Dog
March 21st, 2014, 10:19 PM
Have you tried boosting your Brownie with the Greenie? I would think that or just using the Brownie alone would do the trick.

telemnemonics
March 21st, 2014, 10:25 PM
The footswitch for a JCM800 might do it...
Actually the first thing that came to mind was a Rat.

shovelrider
March 21st, 2014, 10:30 PM
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twangjeff
March 21st, 2014, 11:08 PM
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That's it! The Sweedish buzzsaw!

Really that's THE pedal for trash. All the Swedish Death Metal bands used the HM2 and still do to this day for that matter.

wildschwein
March 22nd, 2014, 01:13 AM
Rat, DS-1, HM-2.

twangking
March 22nd, 2014, 01:30 AM
Mooer pedals are great. Listen to the clips of the hi gain ones.

985plowboy
March 22nd, 2014, 06:25 AM
Digitech grunge. Cheap and hated but loads of gain.

pachap
March 22nd, 2014, 08:55 AM
Digitech grunge. Cheap and hated but loads of gain.

Used to have one..... hated it. Sound was all over the place. Needed to be much tighter to work for me.

ShredMaster
March 22nd, 2014, 09:59 AM
Nearly every metal pedal I have ever heard has been terrible.

The classic 80s thrash sound is hot rodded or boosted Marshall, so rather than looking for the Brutal Metalz pedal you are probably better off with a Marshall in a box type pedal that has some grunt to it. Something like the 10 Ton Hammer perhaps?

Demo starts at 5m06.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sivBIXE4Hmc


Whatever you pick, the secret for a tight metal tone is putting a Tubescreamer (or clone) first in the chain, with the the gain at zero and the level at full. It doesn't add hardly anything more in the way of gain or volume, but it tightens the whole thing up. There are many metal producers who never record a metal tone without this.

bawdyli'lmonkey
March 22nd, 2014, 10:33 AM
I'd try all 3 that you have together. The greenie to saturate the brownie and the bass and treble knobs on the screamin blues to eq and refine the overall tone. guitar --> greenie --> brownie --> screamin blues --> amp. You may not have to buy anything.

66Satellite
March 22nd, 2014, 11:10 AM
Another vote for Boss Heavy Metal. Used to borrow my brother's in the 80s. Picked mine up off eBay last year.

http://guitaridiot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/BossHeavyMetal.jpg

A.B.Negative
March 22nd, 2014, 12:47 PM
I used to have an HM-2, it's a great pedal for thrash.

The Danelectro Cool Cat Metal II is pretty good too.

Jimmy Dean
March 22nd, 2014, 01:42 PM
Easy answer,Rat

k tone
March 22nd, 2014, 01:52 PM
Another vote for Boss Heavy Metal. Used to borrow my brother's in the 80s. Picked mine up off eBay last year.

http://guitaridiot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/BossHeavyMetal.jpg


Helllz yes

ShredMaster
March 22nd, 2014, 02:55 PM
IMO the HM2 is junk, but if you did wanna go that route they are pretty collectable and therefore expensive now. Behringer make a clone of it that is supposed to be pretty similar for peanut price. Hope that helps

gtrguru
March 24th, 2014, 12:03 PM
Never used an HM-2, but the Boss Metal Zone is great and gives lots of eq options.

artdecade
March 24th, 2014, 01:02 PM
If you are looking for something with a bit more versatility, I would look into Scott Ian's signature Digitech, the Black-13. Its loaded with his signature tones from a wide selection of albums. They all sounds great and you can use them with an amp or direct. I keep one around for when the odd metal moment arises!

ymcetG1ZQQI

Or, just get a Metal Zone.

pete-strych
March 24th, 2014, 02:46 PM
Boss Metal Zone
Marshall Jackhammer
Electro Harmonix Metal Muff
Joyo high gain distortion

pete-strych
March 24th, 2014, 02:49 PM
You should also find out which Pickups your favorite players are using in the studio on the songs (you feel) have the best tonal quality. A good pickup will solve many tone issues as well.
...my tone quest will never end, only evolve...

luckett
March 24th, 2014, 03:35 PM
The Danelectro FAB Metal should be at the top of your list. Check out the awesome metal toanz you can get from that little black box of doom.

XejLGKJyX2U

cynic79
March 24th, 2014, 03:47 PM
You might want to check around for a BBE American Metal. It has a "Marshall" voice to it (to the best of my knowledge, it's based on the Marshall Guv'nor), and plenty of gain on tap. GC blew them out for $20 a while back, but you can probably find a used one without too much trouble (there is one on Reverb right now for $30+shipping).

Big John Studd
March 24th, 2014, 04:48 PM
Don't forget about the Metal Master!!! I see GC has a used one for $20 on their website.

MilwMark
March 24th, 2014, 04:56 PM
The Danelectro FAB Metal should be at the top of your list. Check out the awesome metal toanz you can get from that little black box of doom.

XejLGKJyX2U

I never know whether it is inspiring or hilarious when folks feel comforatble demoing without tuning. Especially when they can play riduculously fast. Maybe a bit of both.

Virgman
March 24th, 2014, 05:03 PM
This will work.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lbyiI8BV95I/TkTaD83axCI/AAAAAAAAAC8/bD_1LvS_Btc/s1600/BOSS_MT2_Metal_Zone.jpg

kedj11
March 24th, 2014, 05:35 PM
MXR Distortion Plus
MXR DISTORTION PLUS
MXR Distortion +

artdecade
March 24th, 2014, 05:38 PM
^ All great pedals, but none are going to get you a thrash sound unless you are playing them into a cranked Marshall.

Lowbassnotes
March 24th, 2014, 06:00 PM
Thrashers delight:
http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o663/Lowbassnotes/f6c7e0a0d1f715769eb4b4cb35ebd3e7_zps9fe34164.jpg

thecornman
March 25th, 2014, 09:45 AM
You might want to check around for a BBE American Metal. It has a "Marshall" voice to it (to the best of my knowledge, it's based on the Marshall Guv'nor), and plenty of gain on tap. GC blew them out for $20 a while back, but you can probably find a used one without too much trouble (there is one on Reverb right now for $30+shipping).

I have one of these and it is a pretty alright pedal that does the MIB thing very well. Can be found cheap all the time.

11 Gauge
March 25th, 2014, 11:38 AM
If doing this on the cheap, there are lots of options.

I think the HM-2 is kind of expensive now, or at least for someone just trying to grab one w/o investing time for a deal. There are two DOD pedals from the 80's that took the HM-2 and "collapsed" its low & high EQ controls into a single control - the American Metal (purple box) and the Thrashmaster (bright pink box). There may be others, but those two basically aped the HM-2 thing of having:

- a soft clipping stage

- a hard clipping stage

- "crossover distortion" clipping, that also doubled as a sort of faux noise gate

- active EQ controls on the output

The Dano Daddy-O is a Guv'nor clone. If you want to have the 80's Guv'nor sound on the cheap, this is how you do it. If you want a Crunch Box on the cheap with a little less insane output, this is how you get it.

And Dano also made the Fabtone - it and the Grunge IIRC are both slightly stripped down versions of the MT-2, which IMO makes them a little better suited for the thrash-specific thing. IMO, it's a little too easy to 'dial in a bad sound' (which is completely subjective :lol:) with the MT-2 because of the mids control. People equate thrash with sucked out mids, and that's not incredibly accurate IMO.

Joyo makes the High Gain Distortion, which is 90% Marshall Shredmaster - you basically just give up the bass control. The VS J&H's Hyde side, or the Son of Hyde - that is another instance of the Shredmaster minus the bass control.

Again with the SM and its clones - the mid or contour control isn't really for mids boosting/cutting - it's for sweeping thru from mid suck to mid bump. The mid suck settings will get you in trouble. IMO, the mid suck thing was a very late 80's/90's onward thing popularized by Dimebag Darrell and others - that sound was a move away from "just Marshall amps" and more into rigs that would let you take all the Marshall mid emphasis and throw it away, and that stuff was a pivot towards dropped-D or 'more severe' stuff.

...I know some folks will say that albums like Master of Puppets has a sort of buzzy top end/sucked mids sound, and perhaps it does. But it's not characteristic of a lot of other stuff from the time, IMO. And - James' "beloved Marshall" was stolen some time prior to Ride the Lightning. Another Marshall like the one he had could not be found. He tried using a TS with whatever the substitute amp was, and hated it. No more pedals after that point, so this isn't an instance of bumping an amp with an OD. And - he pretty much gave up on Marshalls altogether - if you consider MOP to be a quintessential thrash guitar sound album, I believe it's primarily Mesa MkII's and stuff like that.

TTBOMK, most other "thrash bands proper" - east or west coast (or rare instances of in between) - were all primarily doing the Marshall stack thing. I'd have to say that with the "most classic of cuts," it's almost always a "vertical input JCM800," which would be the 2203 for the 100 watt version. A plexi would require hotrodding or using pedals, so it just wasn't as common. If you look at something like the Kerry King sig model, it's just a 2203 with an extra gain stage (for the more "current" songs) and a built-in noise gate, IIRC. Same thing for what Scott Ian and all those guys were using. Some west coast guys started to get into Mesas, but that was more rare - most didn't have the money for them when they needed it, and didn't have the desire when they finally might have had the money.

So - the pedals I listed above were absolutely designed for people playing the music like that back then, w/o having to resort to an actual 2203 at loud volumes, driving 8 friggin' speakers. :shock:

Jeremy Blaze
March 25th, 2014, 04:48 PM
Hetfield said he never used pedals, just a cranked Marshall
hammett used a t's through a cranked marshal.

As others suggested, I would look at t's-9, ds-1 and rats

but you should get close with what you have.

artdecade
March 25th, 2014, 04:51 PM
He used a cranked Marshall on the first album
He used a cranked Marshall and a Rat on RTL.

soulgeezer
March 25th, 2014, 04:59 PM
Yeah, I remember the 80's -- All the heavy players were using Rats -- Even the band called Ratt!

thelowerlip
March 25th, 2014, 05:29 PM
The Danelectro FAB Metal should be at the top of your list. Check out the awesome metal toanz you can get from that little black box of doom.

XejLGKJyX2U

AWESOME!:lol:

soulgeezer
March 25th, 2014, 10:25 PM
The Danelectro FAB Metal should be at the top of your list. Check out the awesome metal toanz you can get from that little black box of doom.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XejLGKJyX2U">YouTube Link</a>

That kid is so Iron Butterfly my head just exploded! :lol:

11 Gauge
March 25th, 2014, 11:48 PM
He used a cranked Marshall on the first album
He used a cranked Marshall and a Rat on RTL.

Close. The Rat augmented what was actually a modded Marshall non-MV 100 watt (1959). It was modded by Jose Arrengando, and was stolen, and apparently served as part of the impetus behind the lyrics to Fade to Black. So you only hear that rig - Rat w/100 watt "plexi" - on Kill 'em All.

For RTL, Hetfield used a 2203 (vertical input JCM800) with a pair of non-slant "B" cabs, and pushed the amp with a TS9. He really didn't like the amp sound, and in retrospect hated pushing it with the TS9. There was apparently a lot of EQ'ing to shift the mid emphasis around. It just sounded thin to him, IIRC.

So by '85-'86, James was already done with pedals, after just 2 albums. He also didn't care for Marshall amps any longer, at least not the preamps. Apparently, both he and Kirk got a Mesa IIC that they slaved the pre into a Marshall power amp.

...With part of the "evolution" of recording MOP, Aphex parametric EQ's (pic below) got inserted between the Mesa pre and Marshall power amp. There was also more EQ'ing at the mixing desk, and apparently this was when Hetfield developed the standard of 3 rhythm tracks for almost everything.

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/download/file.php?id=16057&sid=aaa41fd0f01b4e9c6b445c83061b7e10&mode=view

A lot of folks are not aware of what a control freak James was from very early on, and how little playing beyond the solos that Kirk did. This is why you never hear what should amount to a mix of two different rhythm tones, since James' and Kirk's rigs are different.

By '88 (And Justice For All), even the Marshall as a power amp was now gone - it was all or mostly Mesa Studio Caliber/IIC pre/Strategy 400 power amp stuff, with all the EQ'ing in between the pre and power amp. This is why the low end (low mids) is so overwhelming, despite the use of standard tuning.

artdecade
March 26th, 2014, 11:47 AM
Got it backwards! Thanks, 11G!


BUT, I knew there was a Rat in there somewhere! Ha. :lol:

11 Gauge
March 26th, 2014, 01:15 PM
Got it backwards! Thanks, 11G!


BUT, I knew there was a Rat in there somewhere! Ha. :lol:

Yep - it's rare that I play any licks by those guys, but I do favor the old school sound on something like Jump in the Fire. I can hear the Rat thru the 1959 on that one, for sure. And it's mostly a mid-tempo song with a straight-up rock rhythm.

So for a semi-older fart like me, it's probably an instance of the upper end (gain-wise) of something I might play (on rare occasions). And it's less than 5 mins long, and the slap echo on the vocals has an interesting old school feel, too (I know that's probably just the producer being lazy and pushing out a budget album for basically an unknown band at the time).

While the thrash stuff isn't really my thing, it was a bona-fide American musical movement, IMO. While there is similar heavy rock from other parts of the world, it's not quite like it. Also interesting that you had bands on the west coast/bay area, and bands from NYC.

During a time when it could have been just another combo variation of any number of styles, it was neat to have something that wasn't over-polished (beyond 'locking together' the guitar rhythms and drum bits), had some punk-ish type qualities to it, and there were some bands where the members tried to get some playing skill, even if many would argue that it was too restricted or too much in the self-promotion thing.

And the fact that "domestic amps" like Mesas were out of reach for those bands is IMO kind of neat - adds a bit of a more low-fi/kludgey edge to it.

I think Scott Ian stuck with the 2203 & TC Electronic Booster/Dist rig for much of the early stuff, and it's rumored that he used 6550 power tubes to get a bit more push and punch. The SOD album was also just a funny and unique thing at the time, even if a bit inappropriate for some folks.

...And - from the SOD thing, there was awareness of bands like Nuclear Assault, since that's who Danny Lilker ultimately got in a steady band with. They were more NY hardcore'ish oriented, but kind of a neat offshoot if someone liked the Anthrax thing.

I personally liked that throughout much of the Nuclear Assault stuff that John Connelly primarily just used a Gibson V and Marshall stacks. Since he was more of a rhythm player, his lead stuff was a lot more melodic and (again) sort of old school.

For anyone who likes heavier guitar oriented stuff with a mix of angst and some goofy sense of humor, many of these songs could be fun (in smaller doses).

Speaking of old school - Nuclear Assault did a cover version of Good Times, Bad Times that isn't half bad IMO, and doesn't go too far over the top. John's singing range is kind of similar to Robert Plant's, so I guess that helps! :lol:

72Z4DyzVc-M

artdecade
March 26th, 2014, 01:41 PM
Dave Mustaine sends his regards! :twisted:

http://www.metalinsider.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/mustaine_hetfield.jpg