2324 "Roy Wrap" pickup

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL208/996154/8804017/127430876.jpg

I recently got one of Don Mare's "2324" Roy-Wrap bridge pickups, and if you want the authentic Roy tone, this is it. I was just jamming along with Roy's "I'm Evil" today, and it was scary how close the tone and response of this pickup was to the CD. I have also used other Buchanan-style pickups, which I still like very much, but the 2324 really captures that extra elusive Roy tone: when you really dig in, the pickup just starts to growl with that certain raw Roy tone. Cuts like no other. When I listen to Roy play, there are times when you can hear the harmonics behind his normal picked notes, like they are in there, trying to burst out. I don't think it was something he was consciously trying to do, just part of that guitar's sound. I hear that with this pickup too, and I'm playing at low home volumes, so I can only imagine what a sound you'd get playing with a dimed amp like Roy. Pinch harmonics are a breeze anywhere on the neck, the famous Roy "click" when switching to bridge pickup is there in spades, and when you blow on the bridge pickup, you can hear it come through the amp. Like other blackguard style pickups I've tried, it is micophonic (in a good way, no squeal). So after all his research, it looks like Don has finally nailed the elusive recipe for the closest-ever tone to Roy's 1953 Nancy tele. Like any other model pickup, the Roy tone may not be for everyone, but if you want the best authentic Roy tone, there is none better IMO. Nice job. I have not tried his neck pup yet, but mine was a rewind of a Fender Nocaster pup, so my OV neck pup works fine with it, although I had to lower it a bit for output match. More reviews over at Weber

Weber Tele board (http://www.webervst.com/telecaster/messages/1900.html)




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Pinch harmonics are a breeze anywhere on the neck.

That must be an attribute of the CS Nocaster P-up. I know with my own (stock) I get them ALL OVER easily between the nut and 21st fret, low E to high E and everywhere inbetween, even at low, medium, and high vol levels.

Whats the reading on the pickup?

Whats the reading on the pickup?

After all his research to fine tune this pickup, I don't want to screw things up for Don, so I don't feel comfortable giving out any specs online, and suggest that you email him to discuss.

Whats the reading on the pickup?
Look at Don's past posts and you'll see a whole lot :o -- of specs, I mean.

I have a dead Fralin bridge pickup and was going to send it back for repair, but I remembered this post and checked out Don Mare's site and spoke w/ Don yesterday by phone.

I enjoyed the heck out of our conversation. He played some Roy licks with his rewinds and it sounded wonderful even over the phone (!).

Packed up the fralin and it's on it's little way for a RoyWrap.

I'm keeping an eye out for cheap dead pickups, too. If I have the cash to pick one up when I see it, I'll do so just to try out Don's work. In all seriousness: I hope him the best, and lots of success. I'm damn curious, too. 8)

Whats the reading on the pickup?

After all his research to fine tune this pickup, I don't want to screw things up for Don, so I don't feel comfortable giving out any specs online, and suggest that you email him to discuss.

Gotta maintain the "smoke and mirrors" somehow :lol:

Whats the reading on the pickup?

After all his research to fine tune this pickup, I don't want to screw things up for Don, so I don't feel comfortable giving out any specs online, and suggest that you email him to discuss.

Gotta maintain the "smoke and mirrors" somehow :lol:

Geez, are we all skeptics? No one can do honest work? As always the guys who can...do.

The rest of us pitch dookie.

I'll give a general outline of what I know.

Low output, no ****** no *****. That help?

One thing's for sure, Don's put in the research and time seeking that tone, and he has a passion for what he does. I'd put my money on him for some fine sounding pups.

Edited to add: I don't actually own any of Don's pickups, but if I were in the market, he'd be on my short list.

Whats the reading on the pickup?

After all his research to fine tune this pickup, I don't want to screw things up for Don, so I don't feel comfortable giving out any specs online, and suggest that you email him to discuss.

Gotta maintain the "smoke and mirrors" somehow :lol: WOW!! :shock: Mirrors and smoking something? Always a new Pup in town to buy, I will be broke with a box full of pickups :!: Can We Realy Play Like ROY? :roll:

WTF??!?!?!

What is it about Don that causes people to attack him? I thought we were all Tele- lovers here......and as far as I can see, NO ONE digs them more than Don does.

The man has put some serious time and $$$ into figuring out something that a LOT of us are interested in. What's the crime?

Anyone who has heard me knows I'm not a Roy B style player......BUT there are elements of that tone that interest and inspire me. Why not at least check out this new pickup.......especially at the reasonable prices Don is charging?

Oh, I forgot.....this is the internet....everyone's an expert, and everyone deserves whatever information or services they desire.....for free.

:roll:

- Jim

I wish to say that while no one can play excactly like anyone else . We may be able to learn there licks , but there's still that human eliment thing. So , no we can't really play like Roy. But, I whole hartedly agree with Jimfog . Don's pickups are a labor of love and worthy on consideration. I think Don was going not only for Roy's tone but for the particular tone of Roy's axe . That's something we all can use . So, I'm in the amen corner with Jimfog's post.

I don't know how to play like anyone else, certainly not Roy.

I'm just interested in the tone and feel aspect of that style pickup. Might be a great Esquire pickup. We'll see.

I didn't know that Don/Buck was exiled from this place until I heard it from others. Seems odd a situation like that would happen given Don's contributions to Teledom, but there ya go.

A 2324 user over on the Weber tele page posted a soundclip of his ash/maple tele with a 2324 pickup straight into a vintage '65 Vibrolux amp. It's pretty short, and he admits he is not a Roy style player, but you can get a very brief idea about the pickup's clean sound. I believe Don has some Roy-style sound clips coming, this pickup sounds way more powerful and harmonically rich through a cranked tube amp.

2324 pickup soundbite (http://andytband.com/2324_clip.mp3)




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Geez, are we all skeptics? No one can do honest work? As always the guys who can...do.

The rest of us pitch dookie.

I'll give a general outline of what I know.

Low output, no ****** no *****. That help?

Yes, I'm a skeptic...and my intention wasn't to 'pitch dookie' just to add another point of view. Apparently practically EVERYONE can "DO" if the staggering number of custom pickup winders is any indication. Rewinding a pickup with a certain number of winds in some magical pattern (real or imagined) doesn't mean you're a master pickup winder IMO. The fact is, anyone could wind a pickup with a little practice and the non-skilled minimum wage Fender factory workers have proven it over the years. Don might do a fantastic job of rewinding a pickup (FWIW I thought the clip linked above sounded good) but what makes his wind any better than someone elses? Hype? A trade secret? The truth is we'll never know because if we did ANYONE could reproduce it because it consists of 'smoke and mirrors' that can easily be reproduced by using a certain magnet, wind, and wire. What makes some guy in his garage that imitates RB a better winder than Lollar (who literally wrote the book on winding), Fralin, Novak, Biltoft, Hamel, or Duncan? Jeeeeeez. at least they source parts and all offer their own complete pickups, several different models, and not JUST REWINDS. :twisted:

Nancy wasn't the ONLY guitar Buchanan played...yet he always sounded like Roy! Also the pickup is only one piece of the tone equation and the amp, speaker and guitar all play a part too.

-and jimfog, I'm NOT attacking him just contributing to the discussion from a different point of view. What causes people to DEFEND him so?

What makes some guy in his garage that imitates RB a better winder than Lollar (who literally wrote the book on winding), Fralin, Novak, Biltoft, Hamel, or Duncan?

I don't think anyone is saying he's a better pup winder than those other guys, they all wind killer pickups. But for that trademark RB lead pickup tone (haven't tried his neck pup) the 2324 is the closest you can get IMO. Granted, thats a very narrow focus, and that tone is certainly not for everyone. But AFAIK, he's been the only winder looking to duplicate the sound of Roy's Nancy guitar, and keep going with R&D till he nailed it totally. The next closest is the Duff Nancy (I have it in my #2), which is also a great pickup, but Don took the R&D further to nail it 100%. There's plenty of guys who like dumping on him, for whatever reason, but you gotta give him credit for not giving up till he reached his goal.

Geez, are we all skeptics? No one can do honest work? As always the guys who can...do.

The rest of us pitch dookie.

I'll give a general outline of what I know.

Low output, no ****** no *****. That help?

Yes, I'm a skeptic...and my intention wasn't to 'pitch dookie' just to add another point of view. Apparently practically EVERYONE can "DO" if the staggering number of custom pickup winders is any indication. Rewinding a pickup with a certain number of winds in some magical pattern (real or imagined) doesn't mean you're a master pickup winder IMO. The fact is, anyone could wind a pickup with a little practice and the non-skilled minimum wage Fender factory workers have proven it over the years. Don might do a fantastic job of rewinding a pickup (FWIW I thought the clip linked above sounded good) but what makes his wind any better than someone elses? Hype? A trade secret? The truth is we'll never know because if we did ANYONE could reproduce it because it consists of 'smoke and mirrors' that can easily be reproduced by using a certain magnet, wind, and wire. What makes some guy in his garage that imitates RB a better winder than Lollar (who literally wrote the book on winding), Fralin, Novak, Biltoft, Hamel, or Duncan? Jeeeeeez. at least they source parts and all offer their own complete pickups, several different models, and not JUST REWINDS. :twisted:

Nancy wasn't the ONLY guitar Buchanan played...yet he always sounded like Roy! Also the pickup is only one piece of the tone equation and the amp, speaker and guitar all play a part too.

-and jimfog, I'm NOT attacking him just contributing to the discussion from a different point of view. What causes people to DEFEND him so?

Geez, no one said "magic", no one said "better winder", you brought all that extra stuff with you.

It's just another approach, that's OK with you, right?

Looks to me you just want to dis someone's efforts. You might call that "contributing", i don't.

Amen Guitar Jonz !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself . I agree with everything you said. I have a set of the Duff Nancys I'm very pleased with, but , I am very anxious to try Don's set . One thing that perhaps Mr. Skeptic is missing is that Don is doing rewinds until he can get enough capital to produce everything from scratch . Hens the rewinds. I personally think that is a good way to start . At least everyone that wants a set of his pickups can get them now and not have to wait.When you consider the fact that many top amp makers started out repairing and moding amps before making there own product , and that many big companies started in someome's garage or home work shop, I think anyone would agree that what Don isn't doing anything strange weird or wrong.

"What makes some guy in his garage that imitates RB a better winder than Lollar (who literally wrote the book on winding), Fralin, Novak, Biltoft, Hamel, or Duncan?"

I don't think Don is just "some guy". Didn't he design pickups for Lace?

Real world experience designing pickups for one of the bigger pickup companies plus an extreme focus, to put it mildly, on a particular tone certainly makes him qualified to offer this wind, don't ya think?

I'm quite sure Don's rewind is a clone - Don doesn't go 99% of the way, he's always giving about 130% which'll
drive some people crazy but some guys won't stop until they KNOW they've got "it".
Don's one of "those" people.

A 2324 user over on the Weber tele page posted a soundclip of his ash/maple tele with a 2324 pickup straight into a vintage '65 Vibrolux amp. He admits he is not a Roy style player, but you can get a brief idea about the pickup's sound.

2324 pickup soundbite (http://andytband.com/2324_clip.mp3)




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That isnt my idea of Roys tone. Im not hearing any harmonics following the notes no bloom only a gritty sounding thin sounding pickup.

I wasnt impressed at all.

My JM Rolph sounds way way better than that.

That isnt my idea of Roys tone. Im not hearing any harmonics following the notes no bloom only a gritty sounding thin sounding pickup.


Mark,

Give Don a call and have him play for just a minute over the phone. Seriously, he loves to do it.......

http://www.buckcannon.com/pages/16/index.htm

WHOLE different ball of wax. Take the player into consideration as well......

- Jim

I've said it once, I've said it twice and I'll more than likely say it again. The only true Roy B tone to be had in this wonderful world of after market, boteek pickups is with a set of Stanley Dorinals "Obee-Dobee-Roybee" 52BG pickups, a set of 250K Schmenge pots and a .050 Kramden paper-in-oil cap. Drop a set of these babies in an Agile, JB Player or Jay Turser and you're on yer way to "The Messiah Will Come Again".....

As they say down at the local blues club, The Pink Eye, "Now you talkin tone"

You guys are too harsh on Don's dream.
Just because I'll never sound like Roy (nor do I want to) that doesn't make the "Roy Wrap" pickups terrible.
If I were given the real Nancy and a Vibrolux, I wouldn't sound like Roy, but that doesn't make it a bad thing.
To sound like Roy, you have to have a similar tough to Roy, along with the gear.
Don is not claiming his pups are magic beans. He is just claiming that they sound like "Nancy".
Nancy in my hands is not Roy, but might be nice none the less.

Just because someone has a different opinion doesnt make it harsh??

Here is my idea of what a Roy sounding pickup should sound like. Its a clip from right here at the Twanger Central by Fezz just click where it says Red Letter Blues and around the 2:00 area start listening for the harmonics to jump out under the notes.

This sounds like a mix of real Early Jimmy Page mixed with Roy Buchanan Chris did a great job on this I think.

http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t=45527

Just because someone has a different opinion doesnt make it harsh??


Mark,
I don't think Jim's "harsh" comment was meant for you. Seems to me like he meant the sarcastic nasty comments others made. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

I'm serious, though.......either call Don, or check out the clips on his site. I think you'll like.

You should call him just to yak for a couple minutes. Great guy......helpful, knowledgeable and mellow.....Whole different vibe from Don's more, let's say, "extreme" posting style.....lol

- Jim

Yeah Mark, I'm the sarcastic nasty one :twisted:

Serioiusly...I'm sorry if I offended anyone by my brutal attack on Don (nasty sarcasm intended)! Also, I don't feel I dis'd Don. I guess I just don't understand his unique manufacturing (only rewinds) and marketting (play over the phone instead of mp3 clips online) techniques.
FWIW, I love the screetchey Buchanan tone...so much that (gasp!!!) "I" might even purchase a Roy Wrap pickup!! I'd just like to know a bit more about the specs before purchase and find the 'cloak of secrecy' amusing.

So...since I don't want to be accused of contributing nothing of value to this thread I thought I'd post this link for the benefit of Sabby and any others that want to try out Don's pickups but don't have a "donor" pup:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Pickups:_Kits/Parts_Kit_for_Tele_Bridge_Pickup.html

Maybe Don himself will even read this and when he "get(s) enough capital to produce everything from scratch" (can afford to invest $12.80 per pickup or $10.24 each if he builds 6 or more) he can start selling complete pickups. :lol:

I've said it once, I've said it twice and I'll more than likely say it again. The only true Roy B tone to be had in this wonderful world of after market, boteek pickups is with a set of Stanley Dorinals "Obee-Dobee-Roybee" 52BG pickups, a set of 250K Schmenge pots and a .050 Kramden paper-in-oil cap. Drop a set of these babies in an Agile, JB Player or Jay Turser and you're on yer way to "The Messiah Will Come Again".....

As they say down at the local blues club, The Pink Eye, "Now you talkin tone"

Amen Brothuh!

but you can get a very brief idea about the pickup's clean sound.

That's clean??

well, Don said there were 4-5 guys on this forum that hate him. I guess it wasn't just the ramblings of an outcast.

You'all have fun now.

That's clean??

To me, thats relatively clean, certainly not high gain, maybe a little OD in there. YMMV, everyone hears differently. Obviously, its probably not the best clip to post to showcase the pickup's capabilities, but its the only one available right now. I'm sure there will be more and better examples coming in a while. Someone wailing Roy licks on a cranked Fender amp would be most appropriate. I'd post one if I could, but my PC won't allow it.

well, Don said there were 4-5 guys on this forum that hate him. I guess it wasn't just the ramblings of an outcast.

You'all have fun now.

I'm guessing Don was including me in this, judging by the PMs I got from him in the past, but he couldn't be more wrong. I never had anything personal against him.

Don was just pretty sensitive to being corrected on technical issues. He has more hand-on experience than I will ever have, and I don't discount the value of that, but he wasn't nearly as strong on the physics and theory.

Not that theory is quite as important as experience when winding pickups, but I don't liek to see any falsehoods perpetuated.

If he's reading this, I hope he knows that I wish him all the best of luck.

Hey,

Just got my set from Don......."Roy Wraps 2324" set #11.

I did a quick install and recorded a little soundfile for ya'll to check out. This is just straight into my Deluxe Reverb at a low, conversational volume.

Please don't mind the wanking, mediocre recording or wonky intonation,.......

I'm sure you'll appreciate the "vintage" BZZZZZZZ, though. My house has the absolute WORST electricity.

Clip goes Middle position ----> Bridge-----> Neck.

http://www.jimfogarty.com/audio/roywraps.mp3

-Jim

Jim, very nice wankage, thanks.

I just recieved my (#10) fralin bridge Roywrap, I'm putting it in a '76 and gonna set it up as an Esquire.

JIm your clip sounded good but honestly that could be any Tele pickup. I still dont hear any Roy in it like my 1953 Champion lap steel pickup sounded. I still dont hear any harmonics jump out under the notes or any microphonics or the click you should hear when going to the bridge pickup.

Instead of wheres the beef I say wheres the Roy I just dont hear it at all? Also I have nothing against Don and even if he wasnt involved in this I would have said the same thing.

These pickups dont sound like Roy.

Mark, hold on a minute........

I don't PLAY like Roy. I don't WANT to sound like Roy.

I didn't buy this pickup with the intention of sounding like Roy. I do what I do, and liked the concept of what Don was making. I thought it might translate to my style.

Whether it does or not ( and the jury is out until I gig it a bit) has NO bearing on the quality of Don's work. The pickups sound great and Don is great to deal with.

If you want to hear it do Roy, to a TEE, call Don at the number on his website. (as I've mentioned twice before) He loves to play for folks, and nails it 1000%. If you're not willing to go to that little bit of effort (and it will be a JOY, trust me), please don't judge these pickups on their "Roy -ness"

If it sounds good to you, it is good. If it doesn't, then it isn't.....stop obsessing about whether it DOES Roy. The only one who really DID Roy.....was his groupies!

;-)

-Jim

Didnt think you were trying to sound like Roy Jim but Don claims these are identical to 1953 Nancy tone. I have heard 2 clips so far that sound nothing like any 53 Tele I have ever heard played by anyone.

Vince Gill used a 53 Tele on the Crossroads 2004 and even tho he doesnt play like Roy his tone still sounded like an old Tele.

Thats what I an saying these dont sound like old Tele pickups like the Stuarts and Hamels do.

Any player can play an old Tele and it still sounds like an old Tele.

These 2324 pickups sound no different than any stock Fender pickup to me no Roy tones at all that I can hear.

If someone posts a clip using these that shows the click and some harmonics I will say so but so far I havent heard any Roy sounds from these pickups that supposed to emulate Roy closer than anything else?

Here is what Roy sounds like and the click you should hear. The click comes in around the 50 sec into the song.

http://www.marcondo.com/marcondo/guitar/click2.mp3

If someone posts a clip using these that shows the click and some harmonics I will say so but so far I havent heard any Roy sounds from these pickups that supposed to emulate Roy closer than anything else?

1) My advice is to get over "the click". Don't use that as a litmus test for the pickup's microphony, and thence the tone.

2) You won't hear those harmonics unless the amp is correct. The dirty clip is very dark and muffled sounding which will of course kill all those biting upper harmonics that I think you are missing (I am no expert on "roy tone"). The other clip is way too clean, and no matter how the guitar sounds, you will never get those harmonics. Even if the amp was overdriven appropriately, the touch of that player was radically different than in the roy clip you posted. To get those biting searing harmonics, you need to dig in.

Those harmonics are EASY to get out of LOTS of vintage-style tele pickups through the proper amp set correctly. The easiest way to get it is through a BF/SF fender, but you have to TURN UP THE TREBLE. The treble control on these fenders is right in that perfect range that you are hearing, but you have to turn the treble up!

Long story short, I wouldn't judge the pickups based on those two clips. They prove/disprove nothing.

Thats what I an saying these dont sound like old Tele pickups like the Stuarts and Hamels do.

Cool......please point me to the clips which show how those sound like "old Tele pickups", so I can hear that myself.

thanks!

-jim

There was a clip by plaintop over at Twanger central I just went there to play it and it wasnt on the server anymore. I'll see if I can find another example.

Didnt think you were trying to sound like Roy Jim but Don claims these are identical to 1953 Nancy tone. I have heard 2 clips so far that sound nothing like any 53 Tele I have ever heard played by anyone.

Vince Gill used a 53 Tele on the Crossroads 2004 and even tho he doesnt play like Roy his tone still sounded like an old Tele.

Thats what I an saying these dont sound like old Tele pickups like the Stuarts and Hamels do.

Any player can play an old Tele and it still sounds like an old Tele.

These 2324 pickups sound no different than any stock Fender pickup to me no Roy tones at all that I can hear.

If someone posts a clip using these that shows the click and some harmonics I will say so but so far I havent heard any Roy sounds from these pickups that supposed to emulate Roy closer than anything else?

Here is what Roy sounds like and the click you should hear. The click comes in around the 50 sec into the song.

http://www.marcondo.com/marcondo/guitar/click2.mp3

Let me tell you Mark.....

I am one of the guys that posted a clip at the Weber forums. I saw Roy Buchanan play live MANY times with and without Nancy, starting in 1974. I have heard Don play his perosonal Roy pickup and he sounds allot like Roy. We even did a show together with dueling 2324's through Vibrolux amps. The clips you have posted here sound nothing like Roy to me. I have DVD's with early Roy stuff and the definative one is Austin City Limits from 1977. That is Roy at his best, with his true tone while playing Nancy. I just watched that again today.

We are all entitled to our opinions and have different memories of sounds and ears to evaluate tone. This is not a bad thing, but something we must keep in mind.

There are many "secrets" to Roy's tone, his pick attack, use of fingers, his absolute control of harmonics, the list goes on.

My Tele is likely different than Roy's by nature. I never claimed to have Roy's exact guitar, fingers or musical skills. Put my guitar and amp in the hands of 10 different players and you will get crap tone and wonderful tones along with many shades in between.

Don's pickups have a vibe. In the right hands it's a Roy vibe. In my hands it's an Andy T vibe with a potential to get Roy's tone. I went through a Roy phase when I was 20 and took that knowledge elsewhere. I have "toured the world" an developed my own style and sound. I have tried many bridge pickups and the 2324 is my absolute favorite to date. I get the sounds I could never get close to and that makes me smile and play better.

I recorded the clip because Don doesn't have access to recording at home. I said in the post that this is me and not Roy or me copping Roy. Did it sound bad? I have another clip ready to go, but I don't want anyone to hear it and say "that ain't Roy", cause it never will be. It's me. I have a click in it, but the loudness of said click is realtive to how hard you throw the switch back. I don't do the harmonics thing anymore, so I left those out. At one time I had harmonics in every solo and I had to stay away from them for a long while to play "normal" again. Maybe I will do a harmonics clip as well when I am "in the mood". The harmonics are there and I can make a click that will knock your Tele guy in your sig off his stool as well.

Don put SO MUCH work into this project and he deserves our respect for sticking to his guns until his goal was reached. This pickup will not suit everyone, so lets let those that have one do the reviews and share their thoughts without grief.

Thanks for reading and no hard feelings. :)

I didn't think the clip sounded bad. I DO think that way too much is being made out of the "click" though.

I've got an SG Special with P90's that has the exact same Roy click when switching to the bridge pickup...let me tell you, it doesn't sound as much like Roy as my Tele with a SD Broadcaster (early 8.2K) in the bridge.

I think the "click" has as much to do with the switch contacts being loose as the pickup being microphonic.

Apparently some people got told as a kid, "If you have nothing nice to say, then SCREAM AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS!" :shock:

Guys, let it go. It's another pup to hit the market, nothing to be so tee-d off about. :roll:

I agree with Mark about these new 2324 pickups in that "nothing" is going to make you sound like Roy Buchanan. If it were that easy, there would be hundreds of guys around who "sound" just like Roy.The bridge pickup in Roys' Nancy was one of the most microphonic pickups you'll ever come across......period!! You could pretty much speak into that pickup and the bridge-plate and it would come out of the amp I was told. There's something quite special and wonderful about those early 50's single coli pickups that Fender made. I don't know of anyone today who is duplicating that sound perfectly.
Also, thanks Mark for posting that clip of Roy playing live......even today, that "click" gives me chills every time I hear it.People don't realize that Roy spent as much time (maybe more) on the neck pickup on that telecaster. He'd wait until just the right moment to throw the switch over to the bridge pickup, and then when he was done, he'd go back onto the neck pickup.Plus Roy would hardly ever simply leave the tone-pot wide open. He'd figure out that sweet-spot and use that as his starting point. Much of this stuff has been covered before on this web site, so please excuse me if I'm re-hashing an old topic. I simply had to let Mark know that he's NOT alone out there as far as believing in the mystical power in Roys' early playing. In his later years, Roy spent many months and years on auto-pilot where he simply "mailed it in" as they say. In the early days Roy was in a catagory all by himself............


Bob D.

Just because someone has a different opinion doesnt make it harsh??

Here is my idea of what a Roy sounding pickup should sound like. Its a clip from right here at the Twanger Central by Fezz just click where it says Red Letter Blues and around the 2:00 area start listening for the harmonics to jump out under the notes.

This sounds like a mix of real Early Jimmy Page mixed with Roy Buchanan Chris did a great job on this I think.

http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t=45527

You're too kind Mark!

It's my belief that you can get this sound without a special wrap pickup. Any slightly microphonic A3 or A5 Tele bridge pickup wound between 6 and 7k will get you there.

Best of luck to Don and his pickups. I hope he cleared the use of Buchanan's name with his estate. He could get in a lot of legal trouble for using a name "Roy Wraps" and/or likeness (which is where the serial number comes in) without getting a license. Don would be safer to use "Nancy Wraps". It's a little more generic, while getting the source of his inspiration across to potential buyers.:D

You're too kind Mark!

It's my belief that you can get this sound without a special wrap pickup. Any slightly microphonic A3 or A5 Tele bridge pickup wound between 6 and 7k will get you there.

Best of luck to Don and his pickups. I hope he cleared the use of Buchanan's name with his estate. He could get in a lot of legal trouble for using a name "Roy Wraps" and/or likeness (which is where the serial number comes in) without getting a license. Don would be safer to use "Nancy Wraps". It's a little more generic, while getting the source of his inspiration across to potential buyers.:D

Don is officially using 2324 for the pickup name. He is staying away from using Roy's name for the reason's you state.

I will be posting a new clip of the 2324 as soon as I get it edited.

Honestly, I tried for years to get Roy's tone and all I got was something too shrill or too overdriven. I finally gave up and quit using my bridge pickup pretty much altogether. I guess what makes the 2324 work for me is that I can go straight in to the '65 Vibrolux (had this for about 14 years and it never made real Roy sounds before), dime it and the tone is right there. Harmonics are SO easy to get and it makes me want to smile and weep at the same time. A part of me died when Roy did. Sounds silly but it felt as though I'd lost a family member.

I agree that pickups aren't necessarily rocket science, but Don stayed focused and got little sleep throuhout his R&D. He deserves an even break and although I have not know him for long (other than playing the same shows), he has been very kind to me and shared lots of cool info. And of course I got the pickup first, as he allowed me to swing by (just 85 miles!) and install it in his shop, but only after he approved my wiring job. :)

Peace

You'all are too unkind! When did pickup tasting turn into BLOODSPORT?

We have trademark attorneys and Roy experts jumping out of the bushes to dis ole Don and his efforts.

Did someone say there was FREE BEER on the BANDWAGON?

This is my favorite part, "The bridge pickup in Roys' Nancy was one of the most microphonic pickups you'll ever come across......period!! You could pretty much speak into that pickup and the bridge-plate and it would come out of the amp I was told."

"I was told",.....A man with NO direct experience tries to tell someone (Don Mare) with DIRECT experience (the man's played Nancy and done the RB tribute thing for years) about something someone told him once upon a time. Yikes.

Boy o' boy that's a long way to go to dis Don's efforts. Funny, I can hear the right tones coming out of those mp3 files even without the amp cranked. I guess it takes a little imagination to get the rest of the way.

Lighten up, Francis. :lol:

I hope he sells a ton of 'em.

But IMHO, you don't need a special wrap to get that sound. Any decent A3 or A5 pickup that's microphonic enough to tap on the bridgeplate and hear it through the amp (My Esquire through my 5e3 does it in spades, it's even better through my 66 BFVR) will deliver this type of tone, providing the amp is cranked. That's a big part of the sound, along with the player knowing what to do with it.:D

I haven't listened to Roy in yrs-- have my own clean style, but would love to try one out.

Don's got the passion for sure--- miss him here.

I tell you what. I have a stock (complety stock '02) MIA. I have read ALL the hype from ALL the booteek builders, and would love to get a set of Stewart Blackgaurds, Hamal Broadcasters, or any other builders stuff that is being hyped to the moon because I think it has some merit.

But I think the only one I would actually spend any money on right now would be the 2324's. Too bad I don't have any pup's with A3's right now or they would be on their way to him.

Flame away I could care less as I have thick skin, and now I want that thick tone. :lol: :wink:

I tell you what. I have a stock (complety stock '02) MIA. I have read ALL the hype from ALL the booteek builders, and would love to get a set of Stewart Blackgaurds, Hamal Broadcasters, or any other builders stuff that is being hyped to the moon because I think it has some merit.

But I think the only one I would actually spend any money on right now would be the 2324's. Too bad I don't have any pup's with A3's right now or they would be on their way to him.

Flame away I could care less as I have thick skin, and now I want that thick tone. :lol: :wink:

I agree with you that we are lucky to have a great bunch of pickups to choose from. Each winder has his own take and experiences with the original issue pickups and uses that in his own designs.

You don't need A3's, my Duncan Broadcaster was A5 and it worked out fantasctic.

I posted a clip at the Weber boards. Here is what I wrote:


Here is a new clip of he 2324 bridge pickup. The playing is a little rough, but you will get the idea. Trying to play a style I have not visited much in 25 years had me thinking more about tone than performance. Besides I have the flu. :(

The sounds I was shooting for and the 2324 was designed for, are those of the "2nd Album" and "Livestock" era when Roy was using Nancy and no effects. Reverb was a big part of his sound, so I used it here.

Remember, this is not supposed to be me doing Roy. This is Andy T looking for Nancy's tone. Anything Roy did after 77 or so (roughly) would not have the sound Don was looking for. Nancy was retired about that time.

I think you will hear what the 2324 is all about.

As I said above, don't look for Roy, look for Nancy's tone. Listen on some GOOD speakers that reproduce full range, not the ones that came with your $400.00 Dell web surfer special. ;)

If you like what you hear, great. If you don't please slam me and not the man that created the pickup. The playing is a bit rough. I am not Roy and can't touch most of what he did. I have developed my own style and it's hard for me to break out of that these days. I am a straight ahead blues player in the vein of T Bone Walker with some Albert King and Albert Collins thrown in for good measure. Anson Funderburgh is a buddy of mine and we could go toe to toe all night, loving every minute.

The amp is a stock '65 Vibrolux with NOS GE 6L6's and old school Mojotone vintage style alnico speakers. Settings were Vol 10, Treble 10 and Bass 10. Mic was an SM57. My Tele has a Warmouth poly finished swamp ash body, Warmouth construction (not vintage) Maple board neck (also poly finished) and a Barden bridge with brass saddles. It was plugged straight in and the clip was not altered. What you hear is what was there.

Enjoy: http://www.andytband.com/2324_Sounds.mp3

Hehe, that's very nice Andy. Snarly, dude.

What interests me about the 2324 is the sound of a tele bridge PU on the bleeding edge. And that's it.

Can't wait to get mine in something. (Guess i'll have to play my own licks, I don't know any of Roy's).

Love the sound of that bridge PU, it's nasty.

Hehe, that's very nice Andy. Snarly, dude.

What interests me about the 2324 is the sound of a tele bridge PU on the bleeding edge. And that's it.

Can't wait to get mine in something. (Guess i'll have to play my own licks, I don't know any of Roy's).

Love the sound of that bridge PU, it's nasty.

You hit it right on the head buddy. The pickup has a character that most winders don't even go for due to limited appeal. A real Country Tele player like my ex-father in law Jimmy Bryant (yes, he kicked my a** on guitar more than a few times) would likely think it was "not right". It sounds beautiful set up clean, but it's way different than my old Duncan Antiquity '53 Tele (flat poles also). This seems to have a more open and full bottom end with less mids and of course nice clear highs. It also works well with the tone control like Nancy's did.

That sounds great Andy. :D

Like I said, I hope Don rewinds a ton of these after all the work he's put into it.

But I still say a lot of that can be found without going for a special wind. The clip below is a Esquire with a Duncan STL2T, on the 7.2k tap, that I added a baseplate to. I played it through a cranked 5e3 4x10 loaded with 50's era Jensen P10R's (see pic). A lot of the compression is the amp sagging and coming back, but this is guitar--->amp--->microphone.
http://www.lilypix.com/photos/data/71ad16ad2c4d81f348082ff6c4b20768/tb_2344_p45223.jpg

Check out Red Letter Blues (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1763&alid=-1).

Some beezerk Esquire noodling. Solo is one pass. That's all I had in me.:D

But I still say a lot of that can be found without going for a special wind. The clip below is a Esquire with a Duncan STL2T, on the 7.2k tap, that I added a baseplate to. I played it through a cranked 5e3 4x10 loaded with 50's era Jensen P10R's (see pic). A lot of the compression is the amp sagging and coming back, but this is guitar--->amp--->microphone.
Check out Red Letter Blues (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1763&alid=-1).

Chris,
No sh%t.......that sounds excellent! great playing, great tone....

But, to be 100% honest, while I hear more Roy style PLAYING, I'm not hearing that tone. I hear it as more Page, ala Zep 1. It's more thick, compressed and not as airy and spooky as the Roy thing.

Again...I love it...sounds awesome. That's kinda sorta what I'm getting with Fralin Blues Specials, into a Z Route 66....and it's smokin!

Don's going for something a little more specialized. I hear it in Andy's clip, and I heard it when I called Don.

My pickups from Don? I'm not 100% sure.......haven't been able to CRANK my Deluxe enough to find out......but they sure are cool clean, and sounded good last night on a rock gig with my Z cranked!

Thanks,

-jim

There was a clip by plaintop over at Twanger central I just went there to play it and it wasnt on the server anymore. I'll see if I can find another example.

Mark,
You kind of made my point for me there.

Basically, from one clip (that doesn't exist anymore), you are willing to claim that "......these dont sound like old Tele pickups like the Stuarts and Hamels do. "

Step back a sec and consider......isn't that a little unreasonable and unfair? You have a lot of knowledge to offer, Mark..........maybe some objectivity, to go with that, would go a long way?

What I don't get is why there isn't more support for someone who's at least TRYING to nail what many consider a holy grail tone. Whether he nailed it or not......fine, that's up to the individual's opinion. But why be so dismissive and negative to start? Sure, Don's online persona can rub folks the wrong way....but so what? What does that have to do with the price of milk on Sunday?

How about we all try and be a little more open-minded and supportive of each other, in this small tele-loving community?

-Jim

Thanks Jim.:D

A big part of that is the 5e3 circuit combined with the 4 x10's, which compresses and can be kinda flabby on the low end. By micing both the front and back of the cab, it does take on a little bit of a Marshall type sound. That could account for the Pagey-ness (that and my sloppy playing :D)

I'll try to get some clips together of the same guitar through the 66 Vibrolux. You hear more of the guitar through it than you do through the Deluxe. The amp really is an important part of the equation.

That sounds great Andy. :D

Like I said, I hope Don rewinds a ton of these after all the work he's put into it.



I like your clip too. I guess allot has to do with who is playing. Your sounds is pretty compressed and allot of that is due to the high output of that pickup. The differences in pickups is like splitting hairs at times, and it appears that your Duncan is working for you and that's a good thing.

I have to wonder how it would sound through my Vibrloux on 10, 10 and 10. I think I know, cause I have a pickup with about that output and it pushes the amp into a "rock zone". From what I hear, that Nancy tone is about clarity with just the right ammount of distortion coming from the output stage of the amp.

Believe me I'm not stuck on one type of tone. My Gibson Tal Farlow through my '65 Super is about as good as it gets. My 2 Les Paul reissues sounds fanatstic as do my 3 Gretsches. Then again my 2 Andersen Teles sound great as well as does my home built Strat, then there's my '59 Guild M75....... ;) We all have a tone in our heads and when we find it it's pure Nirvana.

Thanks for the clip.

I agree with Mark about these new 2324 pickups in that "nothing" is going to make you sound like Roy Buchanan.

Actually Bob, if you read Mark's post more carefully you'll realize it's not what he's saying at all. In fact, you two DISAGREE.

Mark thinks you CAN get that Roy tone......or, as he also calls it, "old tele sound" ........just not with Don's pickup. Mark heard it, supposedly, in Hamels AND Stuarts.

Where did he hear it? In ONE now-defunct soundclip.

Must have been a GREAT clip, huh?

Do you agree with him now?

Or just agree that, no matter what, you'll NEVER agree with Don Mare?

:roll:

-jim

Again...I love it...sounds awesome. That's kinda sorta what I'm getting with Fralin Blues Specials, into a Z Route 66....and it's smokin!

Don's going for something a little more specialized. I hear it in Andy's clip, and I heard it when I called Don.

My pickups from Don? I'm not 100% sure.......haven't been able to CRANK my Deluxe enough to find out......but they sure are cool clean, and sounded good last night on a rock gig with my Z cranked!

Thanks,

-jim

Those Dr Z amps are killer! I'm sure you sounded great.

I have to wonder how it would sound through my Vibrloux on 10, 10 and 10. I think I know, cause I have a pickup with about that output and it pushes the amp into a "rock zone". From what I hear, that Nancy tone is about clarity with just the right ammount of distortion coming from the output stage of the amp.

Thanks for the kind words Andy, but it's more the amp than it is the guitar. The 5e3 Tweed Deluxe circuit just squashes when you dime it, while the BFVR hangs in there. I'll record a guitar only clip through my '66 BFVR. Be back in a little while, gotta go out to my studio...

Well here's just me, my Esquire, and my '66 Vibrolux Reverb. Sorry for the fumble fingered playing. My ears are ringing, but I think this is the difference when you switch amps. I'd love to know what you guys think...

A Fine Mess (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1763&alid=-1).

Well here's just me, my Esquire, and my '66 Vibrolux Reverb. Sorry for the fumble fingered playing. My ears are ringing, but I think this is the difference when you switch amps. I'd love to know what you guys think...

A Fine Mess (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1763&alid=-1).

This kinda proves my assertion that all that screechiness is about the SF/BF Fender with the treble cranked up (see my post above). This clip isn't quite as "acousticy" sounding as the roywrap clip but it is 95% of the way there. For those that need the last 5%, by all means go for it if you need it. I personally like that microphonic/acoustic/stringy quality as well.

Well here's just me, my Esquire, and my '66 Vibrolux Reverb. Sorry for the fumble fingered playing. My ears are ringing, but I think this is the difference when you switch amps. I'd love to know what you guys think...

A Fine Mess (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1763&alid=-1).

Sounds good, but listen to my clip then yours. You will hear a big difference. Your ears hurt because of the piercing treble me thinks. I did nothing but mic the amp with all settings on 10. This pretty much proves my point about the 2324 pickup having less piercing highs, more lows and a hollower mid range just like a certain other famous guitar did.

This is load of fun. Thanks for posting that clip. :)

Well here's just me, my Esquire, and my '66 Vibrolux Reverb. Sorry for the fumble fingered playing. My ears are ringing, but I think this is the difference when you switch amps. I'd love to know what you guys think...

A Fine Mess (http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1763&alid=-1).

This kinda proves my assertion that all that screechiness is about the SF/BF Fender with the treble cranked up (see my post above). This clip isn't quite as "acousticy" sounding as the roywrap clip but it is 95% of the way there. For those that need the last 5%, by all means go for it if you need it. I personally like that microphonic/acoustic/stringy quality as well.

See......that's what I'm finding is cool about these "Roy Wraps"......

Yes, they have that microphonic, stringy transparency, but they don't get "screechy", like a typical 7-8k Tele pickup does when you crank up a Fender reverb combo.

Chris, thanks so much for posting that. Sounds cool, too....although I prefer your 5e3 clip. Not to dog you at ALL, but I think your recent clip shows what kinda nasty, unpleasant high-end that happens when you try the Roy stuff with the usual pickups.

As I said, I didn't buy these with the intention of doing a Roy clone.........but the more I hear, the more I think Don may have nailed it.

-jim

I'm having fun too! Mine is the same thing, everthing on 10 but I used an AT3035 for the mic instead of a 57. The board was flat. Your clip is slightly sweeter. I much prefer my 5e3 though...

My ears hurt 'cuz I set up the amp in the control room instead of the tracking room. Don't sit next to a Vibrolux Reverb on 10. It'll kill ya.:lol:

That's one of the reasons I've pretty much given up on my BF amps. The tweeds are so much warmer...

http://www.lilypix.com/photos/data/71ad16ad2c4d81f348082ff6c4b20768/2344_p34659.jpg

Nice work, Fezz...sounds excellent to me.

I've said it once, I've said it twice and I'll more than likely say it again. The only true Roy B tone to be had in this wonderful world of after market, boteek pickups is with a set of Stanley Dorinals "Obee-Dobee-Roybee" 52BG pickups, a set of 250K Schmenge pots and a .050 Kramden paper-in-oil cap. Drop a set of these babies in an Agile, JB Player or Jay Turser and you're on yer way to "The Messiah Will Come Again".....

As they say down at the local blues club, The Pink Eye, "Now you talkin tone"

Ah....the Dorinols...is it true that Stanley is only winding on weeks that fall on either Equinox's or Solstices? Does he still use the foot operated sewing machine as a winding machine to insure the best scatter winding?

Sadly, you can only get Schmenge products in the former Yugoslavia now. Until a new distributor steps up to the plate.

:wink: :lol:

My favorite Dorinal pup is the "Triple Stuff" tele bridge pickup. It has all the punch and snarl of a stacked coil, with a third coil stacked on top of that. I put it in my partscaster and wham! Instant middle production Nocaster tone, not as middy as a Broadcaster, with that sweet, stinging tone of the first Telecasters. I got it from a buddy of mine, but wound up trading it because I wanted more of an early Bob Stinson Esquire sound.

Ok everybody, ol Roy has been slammed and praised. Now that thats over why dont we all go to the fridge, get a beer or whatever your taste desires, grab our tele's, crank the amp and get to playing.... :shock: :D

My favorite Dorinal pup is the "Triple Stuff" tele bridge pickup. It has all the punch and snarl of a stacked coil, with a third coil stacked on top of that. I put it in my partscaster and wham! Instant middle production Nocaster tone, not as middy as a Broadcaster, with that sweet, stinging tone of the first Telecasters. I got it from a buddy of mine, but wound up trading it because I wanted more of an early Bob Stinson Esquire sound.

That might be the best post ever. :) The "Sorry Ma, Forgot" custom wind must be coming. It better be good, don't wanna have people say it sounds like "Tim" instead! :)

heh heh he. He said "Schmenge". heh heh.

Yes, I totally agree. The Tim-era tone has too pronounced upper mids for my taste. I believe it was the value of the pots he was using. Perhaps 1 megs.

I was going to get the Sorry Ma wind, but I wanted to make sure Dorinal could do it as close as possible to the 7th Street Entry tone, and not the darker low end of the Duluth Rollerskating Rink shows.

For instance ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGiEl1QerCY&search=westerberg

Hi Fezz and Twin, I'm lost, I dont know what you are talking about, I know about the replacements but as far as the subject I have not a clue. :D

Ahh, I think it is safe to assume that tongue is firmly planted in cheek on these posts. Sorry for the brief hijack.

TR

I tell you what. I have a stock (complety stock '02) MIA. I have read ALL the hype from ALL the booteek builders, and would love to get a set of Stewart Blackgaurds, Hamal Broadcasters, or any other builders stuff that is being hyped to the moon because I think it has some merit.

But I think the only one I would actually spend any money on right now would be the 2324's. Too bad I don't have any pup's with A3's right now or they would be on their way to him.

Flame away I could care less as I have thick skin, and now I want that thick tone. :lol: :wink:

I agree with you that we are lucky to have a great bunch of pickups to choose from. Each winder has his own take and experiences with the original issue pickups and uses that in his own designs.

You don't need A3's, my Duncan Broadcaster was A5 and it worked out fantasctic.

I posted a clip at the Weber boards. Here is what I wrote:


Here is a new clip of he 2324 bridge pickup. The playing is a little rough, but you will get the idea. Trying to play a style I have not visited much in 25 years had me thinking more about tone than performance. Besides I have the flu. :(

The sounds I was shooting for and the 2324 was designed for, are those of the "2nd Album" and "Livestock" era when Roy was using Nancy and no effects. Reverb was a big part of his sound, so I used it here.

Remember, this is not supposed to be me doing Roy. This is Andy T looking for Nancy's tone. Anything Roy did after 77 or so (roughly) would not have the sound Don was looking for. Nancy was retired about that time.

I think you will hear what the 2324 is all about.

As I said above, don't look for Roy, look for Nancy's tone. Listen on some GOOD speakers that reproduce full range, not the ones that came with your $400.00 Dell web surfer special. ;)

If you like what you hear, great. If you don't please slam me and not the man that created the pickup. The playing is a bit rough. I am not Roy and can't touch most of what he did. I have developed my own style and it's hard for me to break out of that these days. I am a straight ahead blues player in the vein of T Bone Walker with some Albert King and Albert Collins thrown in for good measure. Anson Funderburgh is a buddy of mine and we could go toe to toe all night, loving every minute.

The amp is a stock '65 Vibrolux with NOS GE 6L6's and old school Mojotone vintage style alnico speakers. Settings were Vol 10, Treble 10 and Bass 10. Mic was an SM57. My Tele has a Warmouth poly finished swamp ash body, Warmouth construction (not vintage) Maple board neck (also poly finished) and a Barden bridge with brass saddles. It was plugged straight in and the clip was not altered. What you hear is what was there.

Enjoy: http://www.andytband.com/2324_Sounds.mp3

I think the 2324 pickup was the original focus. ?? ;)

I've said it once, I've said it twice and I'll more than likely say it again. The only true Roy B tone to be had in this wonderful world of after market, boteek pickups is with a set of Stanley Dorinals "Obee-Dobee-Roybee" 52BG pickups, a set of 250K Schmenge pots and a .050 Kramden paper-in-oil cap. Drop a set of these babies in an Agile, JB Player or Jay Turser and you're on yer way to "The Messiah Will Come Again".....

As they say down at the local blues club, The Pink Eye, "Now you talkin tone"

Ah....the Dorinols...is it true that Stanley is only winding on weeks that fall on either Equinox's or Solstices? Does he still use the foot operated sewing machine as a winding machine to insure the best scatter winding?

Sadly, you can only get Schmenge products in the former Yugoslavia now. Until a new distributor steps up to the plate.

:wink: :lol:

Sadly.....since the accident, ( or "kleptic movement" as Stanley is prone to call it ) Stan's good eye has taken to rotating counter clockwise, causing his "Tweaker" winds to be out of phase with his matching "T. Leary" neck model. I have good news however, Stan has sent a cosmic fix to the universe, so all pups should be in phase by the time this is posted.

A recent email from Stan the Man indicates he's in good spirits and has finally come to grips over the tragic loss of his skinny, stinky, hairless, yet truly inspiring, pet ferret "Lil Rascal". ( for those of you who are not aware, Rascal tragically passed away last year after losing the battle over a piece of peanut buster parfait with Stanleys wife Fifi....) In loving memory of Rascal
( and Fifi...God rest her soul...) Stan is introducing a limited production tele bridge pickup simply called "Spam"......when queried about it's construction, he told me it's pretty much a mystery and could not tell me what it was made of..... but he commented favorably on it's ( his own words! ) "fat fried, corpulent tone that seems to be dripping with grease.

I tell you what. I have a stock (complety stock '02) MIA. I have read ALL the hype from ALL the booteek builders, and would love to get a set of Stewart Blackgaurds, Hamal Broadcasters, or any other builders stuff that is being hyped to the moon because I think it has some merit.

But I think the only one I would actually spend any money on right now would be the 2324's. Too bad I don't have any pup's with A3's right now or they would be on their way to him.

Flame away I could care less as I have thick skin, and now I want that thick tone. :lol: :wink:

I agree with you that we are lucky to have a great bunch of pickups to choose from. Each winder has his own take and experiences with the original issue pickups and uses that in his own designs.

You don't need A3's, my Duncan Broadcaster was A5 and it worked out fantasctic.

I posted a clip at the Weber boards. Here is what I wrote:


I read all that on the webber board before I saw the thread here, as I am a huge lurker over there. That is where I got my intresting in old tele stuff, and why I got intrested in these 2324's, as they seem very nice.

I pulled the "Fine Mess" clip, as it has served it's purpose. If anyone wants to hear the fumble fingered mess, I can email it to you.:D