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Little Bear rat clone

blowtorch
September 2nd, 2013, 11:26 AM
(Not Small Bear)

Anyone have any experience? Thanks

zombiwoof
September 2nd, 2013, 12:17 PM
Is that the one that says something like "R.ATTACK" on the front?.
I bid on one and got it cheap, it comes with no instructions, it has 3 different settings, marked "Dir", "Tur", and "Vin". To me, the middle "Tur" setting sounds most like a regular Rat pedal, even though you'd think "Tur" would mean Turbo. I have no idea what "Dir" means, but it sounds like the tone controls have been disconnected in that mode, it's not as loud but sounds more Big Muff-like to me. The "Vin" setting sounds a bit thinner and less Rat-like than the "Tur" setting. It does have the 308 chip in it, but I don't know how the circuit compares to other real Rats. It seems to be well-made, but I sure would like to know what the different settings really are supposed to be!. No documentation at all. For the cheap price I got it for, I though it was worth a try. The guy (in China) sells them buy-it-now for around $60, I got mine for about a third of that by bidding.

The funny thing was that the pics and description in the first auctions for the pedal said that it was "ture bypass" (it even showed it saying that on the pedal in the pic), but when I got mine that little screw-up wasn't printed on the pedal. Someone must have corrected the guy's English along the line.

I found the auction for the pedal direct from China, now it says that "Dir" means "Dirty", so I guess it's supposed to be like the "You Dirty Rat" pedal. I have of those, so I'll try to compare it. I don't think the "vintage" setting really sounds like a vintage Rat, as I said the "Tur" setting sounds most like my Rat II from the late 80's:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guitar-and-Bass-Distortion-Effector-effect-3-model-RAT-StompBox-Pedal-LM308AN-/111158059134?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item19e189607e

Al

blowtorch
September 2nd, 2013, 01:03 PM
zombiwoof, yes, that's the one i was wondering about, thanks

blowtorch
September 5th, 2013, 08:29 AM
I think the "ture bypass" was something they put on the photo, not the actual pedal

zombiwoof
September 5th, 2013, 02:07 PM
I think the "ture bypass" was something they put on the photo, not the actual pedal

It actually showed "ture bypass" on the pic of the pedal (next to the switch), but they later changed the auction pic (after I bought mine) and removed it. I'm pretty sure it said it on the first pedals. Whatever, I thought it was funny. They also have added the description of the three modes to the auction now, it wasn't there before.

Al

blowtorch
September 5th, 2013, 02:18 PM
zombi, heh.
Have you messed with yours lately?
I've been trying to snag one of these on the cheap, to check it out.

zombiwoof
September 6th, 2013, 11:55 AM
zombi, heh.
Have you messed with yours lately?
I've been trying to snag one of these on the cheap, to check it out.

To tell you the truth, I got it, played it once to make sure it worked, looked inside it and haven't gotten around to using it any more since then!. Just haven't had the time. I have an old Rat II, a "You Dirty Rat", and a "Vintage Rat", when I have the time I'll compare them to the modes on the R.Attack and see how they match up. My first impression was that the second mode (Tur) was the best sounding one, the first and third modes were weaker in output and I'm not sure that they really nail the sounds they are trying to emulate. I'll try to play around with it some more and get a better idea soon as I can.

Al

blowtorch
September 6th, 2013, 12:01 PM
zombiwoof, thanks! I'm looking forward to hearing your opinion on how it stacks up to the originals.

woodward
September 6th, 2013, 12:13 PM
I just scored one of these on eBay for $20 + S/H.

Interestingly enough I was actually looking for the 308 chip for a RAT build I am doing myself, but for that price you really can't go wrong.

I am assuming the 3-way switch is just diode clipping, but I'll have to take a closer look once it gets here. It looks like the LED's inside the box are wired to work off of the overdrive diodes, sort of like Beavis Audio's FKR build. Not too sure if the LED's are a part of the gain circuit in this case, or just there for show.

In any case, could be cool to poke around in this one before I do my own build.

I'll post when it arrives and I figure out what they have going on.

blowtorch
September 6th, 2013, 12:34 PM
woodward you beat me on that auction! the seller keeps relisting the auction every 24 hours, I'm trying to see how cheap I can get one. Looks like when you include the shipping, just a couple bucks under the normal $45 of his BIN auction (which ships free) is what they are going for, pretty consistently.

I'm anxious for you to let us know what you think once you get it!

luckett
September 6th, 2013, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't assume that it has a real LM308 chip in it. With the real LM308s going for $5 apiece, there is a huge incentive for the crafty chinese counterfeiters to relabel a 10 cent chip. If you look closely at the chip in that ebay ad, the motorola logo is not correct and the type font is also wrong.

If you want to know if the LEDs are really used for clipping, look a them while playing and they will light up when they clip the signal.

woodward
September 8th, 2013, 02:24 AM
@blowtorch
Sorry for beating you out! I was tense there for the last minute or so.

@luckett
Looks like they're using LM308AN's. Current production, cost-effective versions of the original. I've heard that they sound near-on identical, especially if you tweak the circuit a bit.

I'm not one to buy into old part "mojo" anyways. I mean, sure they're made in China, but what isn't these days?

luckett
September 8th, 2013, 11:49 AM
@luckett
Looks like they're using LM308AN's. Current production, cost-effective versions of the original. I've heard that they sound near-on identical, especially if you tweak the circuit a bit.

I'm not one to buy into old part "mojo" anyways. I mean, sure they're made in China, but what isn't these days?


Motorola doesn't even make IC chips anymore, so any claimed current production chips with a Motorola logo are fake. I don't think there is any manufacturer currently making an LM308.

I'm not saying there is mojo in the LM308, just that the ones they are putting in there are fake LM308s. It's probably a relabeled OP07, which sounds fine in a rat, but it's not a real LM308.

zombiwoof
September 8th, 2013, 02:15 PM
I just scored one of these on eBay for $20 + S/H.

Interestingly enough I was actually looking for the 308 chip for a RAT build I am doing myself, but for that price you really can't go wrong.

I am assuming the 3-way switch is just diode clipping, but I'll have to take a closer look once it gets here. It looks like the LED's inside the box are wired to work off of the overdrive diodes, sort of like Beavis Audio's FKR build. Not too sure if the LED's are a part of the gain circuit in this case, or just there for show.

In any case, could be cool to poke around in this one before I do my own build.

I'll post when it arrives and I figure out what they have going on.

There at one point was an explanation for the 3-way switch in the auction (now I don't see it, although he now has a YouTube video link to hear the pedal), the "Dir" setting (pos 1), is supposed to be the "You Dirty Rat" setting, in that case it would have germanium diodes if it really copies the YDR.

The second setting ("Tur") is supposed to be like a Turbo Rat. I don't know how the Turbo Rat differs from a Rat II (does it use LED clippers?). Funny thing is, as I've said, is that this setting sounds most like a standard LM308 RatII to me, but I've never tried a Turbo Rat. Maybe it's just the way I'm setting the controls.

The third setting ("Vin") is supposed to be the Vintage Rat mode, this I don't understand as it just sounds thinner to me. I'll play around with the settings some more, but at first listen it didn't impress me much.

And in reference to the big deal about whether or not it has a real 308 chip in it, the seller claims they are vintage 90's chips.

Al

blowtorch
September 13th, 2013, 11:05 AM
If anyone who has one of these and also has an actual rat could do a A/B listening comparison and let us know the results, it'd be much appreciated. Thanks

blowtorch
September 23rd, 2013, 11:25 AM
Well I finally "won" one of the auctions for one of these , 27.45 shipped. I've seen them go as low as less than 22 bucks

blowtorch
October 3rd, 2013, 08:50 AM
it arrived, haven't had a chance to try it yet, though

blowtorch
October 3rd, 2013, 10:33 PM
it sounds great!

blowtorch
November 12th, 2013, 02:32 PM
Using it last night in a loud band setting it sounded great BUT the little toggle switch (to choose which mode you want the pedal to operate in) is so close to the footswitch that I kept hitting it when I switched the pedal on or off. This is problematic since some mode settings are a LOT quieter than others

Hugo Stiglitz
November 28th, 2013, 02:11 AM
I was going to build one myself, got all the parts together, even bought a bunch of national semiconductor lm308's and then I saw this on ebay. Cheaper to purchase then to build.

I exchanged emails with the seller and did confirm it was an actual motorola lm308an. I even swapped it out for one of my chips (lm308n), and found no recognizable change in sound.

The reason the dirty rat setting has a drop in volume is because the diode is a germanium device 1n34 hence the drop. The tubro rat setting uses red leds for the clipping stage, on this setting you can see them visually clipping. The vintage rat setting uses 1n4148 or 1n914 for the clipping section.

And yes, this sounds exactly like a rat should sound. I'm impressed considering how affordable the unit costs.

Hugo Stiglitz
November 28th, 2013, 02:21 AM
I forgot to mention that national semiconductor still makes the lm308n and can be found cheaply on ebay.

Some old big box rats used the national semiconductor chip in their builds. The logo looks like a bunch of squiggly lines on top of each other. :)

sam76
November 28th, 2013, 08:02 AM
I've had one of these for months. Probably my favourite and most versatile overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedal, and I have a LOT!
It's like a Rat Tonelab.
Amazing construction too.
So the secrets finally out I see...

zombiwoof
November 28th, 2013, 12:51 PM
I was going to build one myself, got all the parts together, even bought a bunch of national semiconductor lm308's and then I saw this on ebay. Cheaper to purchase then to build.

I exchanged emails with the seller and did confirm it was an actual motorola lm308an. I even swapped it out for one of my chips (lm308n), and found no recognizable change in sound.

The reason the dirty rat setting has a drop in volume is because the diode is a germanium device 1n34 hence the drop. The tubro rat setting uses red leds for the clipping stage, on this setting you can see them visually clipping. The vintage rat setting uses 1n4148 or 1n914 for the clipping section.

And yes, this sounds exactly like a rat should sound. I'm impressed considering how affordable the unit costs.

I think he sells them buy-it-now for $59 or so, but he always has an auction up for them, and they usually go for a lot less than that. I got mine for around a $22 bid before the word started getting around on them.

Al

Hugo Stiglitz
December 1st, 2013, 03:30 PM
I always wanted a proco rat but couldn't afford one. Yes, I'm poor :( . But, to be able to own one that has three different versions at such an affordable price, I paid around 28 bucks, it's a no brainer.

I did have a few problems with my unit unfortunately. The first few seconds into using it, the bypass led flickered and died. I replaced it with a orange led, easy fix.

Suddenly the foot switch gave up, after a couple dozen of uses. I replaced it easily. The pedal is very easy to repair by the way. I don't want to discourage readers from purchasing one, I just happened to purchase one that was faulty, this happens once in a while.

luckett
December 1st, 2013, 08:01 PM
I forgot to mention that national semiconductor still makes the lm308n

Where did you hear this from? It seems like you would be able to buy them cheaply from all the electronics parts vendors if they were still making them.

Hugo Stiglitz
December 1st, 2013, 11:10 PM
Here's a link to current production National Semiconductor LM308N. Texas Instruments owns National Semiconductor but still makes parts. You can get 10 for 6.95US with free shipping on Ebay.

http://m.ebay.ca/itm/251336843370?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

sam76
December 1st, 2013, 11:39 PM
Had anyone else noticed if you play it on the YDR setting for a while, the led's continue to light up in bypass, or when switched to another circuit?
I love this thing, but I'm worried it's dying on me.

luckett
December 2nd, 2013, 12:16 AM
Here's a link to current production National Semiconductor LM308N. Texas Instruments owns National Semiconductor but still makes parts. You can get 10 for 6.95US with free shipping on Ebay.

http://m.ebay.ca/itm/251336843370?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

So TI is still making them with National Semi logos, but the only place to get them is on ebay from a guy in China? Sorry, but that story just doesn't make any sense. If TI was making new chips, you would be able to buy them by the thousands from somewhere like mouser.

XKnight
January 13th, 2014, 11:09 PM
I picked up one of these pedals to see what they were all about and wanted to compare it to my USA Whiteface Reissue Rat which of course cost over 3X as much. To my surprise I can mimic the tones from my Whiteface Rat with the R.attack and can even get a greater variety of tones on it thanks to the 3 way toggle switch. I opened up the pedal and someone spent a lot of time neatly wiring this thing up. Everything looks well done and sure enough it does have a LM308 in there. I did notice that the R.attack is much lighter than my Reissue Rat and I would imagine that the cheaper plastic jacks might be an issue if you gigged with this pedal, but for the bedroom players like me this thing is great regardless of price. I might even sell my Whiteface Reissue Rat since it's pretty redundant at this point.

blowtorch
January 15th, 2014, 02:40 PM
It is one sweet stomp, for sure. I am using it more than my GFS Brownie these days, which is another rat clone, although unmodded the Brownie is more top-end, tone wise, than the traditional rat. I've never owned an actual pro-co rat: it's nice to hear that the little bear nails it, side by side.

My only complaint is that it's easy to accidentally switch the mode, while stomping on it

XKnight
January 18th, 2014, 10:29 PM
I picked up one of these pedals to see what they were all about and wanted to compare it to my USA Whiteface Reissue Rat which of course cost over 3X as much. To my surprise I can mimic the tones from my Whiteface Rat with the R.attack and can even get a greater variety of tones on it thanks to the 3 way toggle switch. I opened up the pedal and someone spent a lot of time neatly wiring this thing up. Everything looks well done and sure enough it does have a LM308 in there. I did notice that the R.attack is much lighter than my Reissue Rat and I would imagine that the cheaper plastic jacks might be an issue if you gigged with this pedal, but for the bedroom players like me this thing is great regardless of price. I might even sell my Whiteface Reissue Rat since it's pretty redundant at this point.

Just an update to my previous post. Although I really like the tones of the R.attack I unfortunately can no longer endorse it since the pedal already started having issues after only a week of using it. I guess this is a typical example of you get what you pay for. I'll be keeping my USA made Whiteface Reissue Rat since it's built like a tank and I won't have to worry about it failing me like the R.attack. Like my grandad always said, cheap Chinese junk is cheap Chinese junk. Lesson learned once again for me.

blowtorch
January 18th, 2014, 10:50 PM
Sorry to hear you've been having issues with yours. Mine is working fine after a few months of regular use, and having the thing totally doused in water once (via a plumbing leak).

valvestate
January 19th, 2014, 12:54 AM
Im also in the verge of buying this in Amazon... So, it sounds great but the build quality is very poor? I like the aesthetics actually ..

XKnight
January 19th, 2014, 01:41 PM
Im also in the verge of buying this in Amazon... So, it sounds great but the build quality is very poor? I like the aesthetics actually ..

I think it's definitely a bit of a gamble. Sounds great, but there are quality control issues. Like the other poster in this thread, my foot switch died on me after only a few days of use. I guess if you like to fix things then it's not a problem. I've had over a hundred pedals over the years and this is the first one that just quit working. The fact that it happened so soon makes me wonder about the quality of the other components as well.

henram36
January 25th, 2014, 04:56 PM
I just received mine yesterday. A little over a week to ship from China...not bad at all! I'm loving all 3 sounds this pedal can make (plus more with tweaking the distortion and filter knobs). I do like the "Vin" setting most, though. That was the sound I had in my head when I thought "Rat". "Tur" is cool with the LED clipping, but probably my least favorite and seems to have the highest gain of the 3. "Dir" is my second favorite as I like the more traditional distortion sound (scooped mids) it offers. It it is a quieter setting which makes it great for bedroom playing. I play in a church, so this little guy may not see a lot of live play, but it really scratches that distortion "itch" like nothing else!
Now, lets just hope it holds up longer than a week!

RedRock
January 25th, 2014, 06:00 PM
My Little Bear Rat works just fine after 4 months of use.

mark_uk
May 12th, 2014, 10:24 AM
I've been watching these little blighters on eBay the auctioned ones are going for as low as 1+postage here in the UK - May have to invest.....

mark_uk
May 12th, 2014, 02:23 PM
I've been watching these little blighters on eBay the auctioned ones are going for as low as 1+postage here in the UK - May have to invest..... thus....

blowtorch
May 12th, 2014, 02:35 PM
Yep they are going pretty cheaply, mine was less than 30 bucks shipped, and no issues yet, even after the pedal got totally soaked from a plumbing problem

artdecade
May 12th, 2014, 02:39 PM
Yep they are going pretty cheaply, mine was less than 30 bucks shipped, and no issues yet, even after the pedal got totally soaked from a plumbing problem

Couldn't hold it in any longer? :lol:

Thank you - Thank you - I'l be here all night! :wink:

mark_uk
May 12th, 2014, 02:49 PM
Yep they are going pretty cheaply, mine was less than 30 bucks shipped, and no issues yet, even after the pedal got totally soaked from a plumbing problem but what do you think of these little rascals!? Anyone got one?

artdecade
May 12th, 2014, 02:51 PM
but what do you think of these little rascals!? Anyone got one?

Looks like it would keep you from boarding a plane... :lol:

blowtorch
May 12th, 2014, 03:02 PM
but what do you think of these little rascals!? Anyone got one?
Yeah they've been on my watchlist for awhile

simonsp
May 12th, 2014, 03:10 PM
but what do you think of these little rascals!? Anyone got one?

Yes, I have two actually. I like them very much. I originally got one to try in front of my Pathfinder 15R to see if it would improve the sound. And it did, quite a lot actually. The valve is a 12au7, so hardly any dirt except when the gain is cranked, but it warmed up the signal and seemed to make the guitar more touch sensitive (hmm...). The Gain pot became quite scratchy after a while (still perfectly useable) so I got a second and run in front of a VHT Special 6. Quite fragile and completely unsuited to gigging or even taking out the house. You could gaff it down I suppose, but that's not what they are about.

235056

mark_uk
May 12th, 2014, 04:56 PM
Hmmmm interesting. They seem to do different versions with different valves..

simonsp
May 12th, 2014, 05:03 PM
Hmmmm interesting. They seem to do different versions with different valves..

Yes, I've even seen one with a footswitch. I'm not sure that's a great idea. Probably best to think of it as a thumbswitch.

blowtorch
May 12th, 2014, 05:06 PM
Any of them with a 12ax7 should work with a 12at7 or a 12au7 as well. This will give a more versatile, smoother tone. I have noticed they tend to get more for the 12au7 one, kinda funny

simonsp
May 13th, 2014, 08:15 AM
235095

Just received this. Cost 16.00 inc. postage. What a great pedal. Vintage setting gives a glorious harmonic sustain. Haven't played about with other settings much yet but they all sound eminently useable. The pots all have a nice heavy drag when you turn them with no noise at all. I think this sounds even better than the Black Secret, which is high praise indeed. Excellent box.:cool:

blowtorch
May 13th, 2014, 08:41 AM
Put the switch to the middle setting and watch it light up like a Christmas tree :lol:

Congrats

GuitOp81
May 13th, 2014, 09:24 AM
235095

Just received this. Cost 16.00 inc. postage. What a great pedal. Vintage setting gives a glorious harmonic sustain. Haven't played about with other settings much yet but they all sound eminently useable. The pots all have a nice heavy drag when you turn them with no noise at all. I think this sounds even better than the Black Secret, which is high praise indeed. Excellent box.:cool:

A question for other owners: the r.attack distortion knob on mine seems to reach maximum distortion when barely at 9o'clock, more or less 1/4 of the full turn of the knob. Is it the same with yours?
It makes it difficult to get the mild crunch that I used the most with my old rat2.
Apart from that limitation I like the tone, but really it is difficult to get anything other than high distortion from the one I have, at least compared to the RAT.

simonsp
May 13th, 2014, 10:24 AM
A question for other owners: the r.attack distortion knob on mine seems to reach maximum distortion when barely at 9o'clock, more or less 1/4 of the full turn of the knob. Is it the same with yours? ...

I'm finding that it will add drive effect right up to the 3 o clock position. Most of the distortion is there by 12 o clock but between 12 & 3 it seems to add some harmonic richness to the signal. It's a monster of a pedal. The only setting I'm not that fond of is Turbo, but it's early days and I'm sure I'll come to appreciate it.

Michael A.
May 13th, 2014, 10:07 PM
I've heard so much about the Rat that I wanted to try a clone to see if I like it. This thread is a thumbs-up, so I bid on the Little Bear R.Attack on The Bay tonight and got it for $2.25 plus $18.95 postage! The only other bidder stopped at $2. If I don't like it, it has to be worth $30 to someone local on CL.

Of course there was an announcement on eBay tonight that postal shipments out of China that go through Shanghai are taking an extra week, and I don't know if this would be affected or not, but who cares?

I got a shipping confirmation within 30 minutes of placing the order. Pretty impressive. I'll report when it arrives.

TeleTeebs
May 17th, 2014, 07:41 AM
Got one..Tried it..POS!!!!..COuld not get any usable tones and like guitar op said...drive maxed out at 9:00...Could not flip it fast enough and grabbed another joyo ud

RedRock
May 17th, 2014, 10:38 AM
It's really a great pedal.

I think bad results are caused by operator error.

I got one, tried it, love it.

simonsp
May 17th, 2014, 11:39 AM
Got one..Tried it..POS!!!!..COuld not get any usable tones and like guitar op said...drive maxed out at 9:00...Could not flip it fast enough and grabbed another joyo ud

Sorry to hear you've had a bad experience. I can only speak for the unit I received, drive maxs out between 12-3 o'clock. I've been using it constantly since I first posted on it and I'm finding it be a fantastic rat clone, easily as good as the Black Secret. Lots of harmonic overtones in it, esp with palm muting. It's a great pedal.

surfoverb
May 17th, 2014, 01:24 PM
its not a clone technically but generally has good reviews

simonsp
May 17th, 2014, 01:29 PM
its not a clone technically but generally has good reviews

Apologies. Lazy terminology. :oops:

surfoverb
May 17th, 2014, 01:57 PM
Apologies. Lazy terminology. :oops:

ha not your fault. i didnt know either until i went to freestompboxes
where they took it apart and saw a few changes were made to the rat circuit.
not a big deal as even they said its a good pedal.

de-tele
May 18th, 2014, 09:27 PM
just got one today...18$ I think....sound decent enough and this thing seems built like a tank..On the guys eby site it says he does it for fun. Def worth it IMO