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Middle Pickup??

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 12:56 PM
Hi all, I'm new to telecaster.com, and I'm bringing home a 2012 Fender Nashville B-Bender this weekend....................

Also being a Harley guy, I'm sure you must understand my need to make this new addition my own, so mods are in store!! Small one's include a vintage mint green pickguard and aged tan chicken neck control knobs.

Now for the question, can the middle strat pick up be made to operate on it's own? Is there any benefit to having it operate by itself like the neck and bridge pups can??

Thanks for any input, appreciated

waparker4
June 12th, 2013, 01:02 PM
Neck Pickup:

American Standard Single-Coil Tele®

Middle Pickup:

Texas Special™ Single-Coil Strat®

Bridge Pickup:

American Standard Single-Coil Tele®

Pickup Switching:

5-Position Blade: Position 1. Bridge Pickup, Position 2. Bridge and Middle Pickup, Position 3. Middle Pickup, Position 4. Middle and Neck Pickup, Position 5. Neck Pickup

Pickup Configuration:

S/S/S

Controls:

Master Volume, Master Tone

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 01:05 PM
Thanks for the reply waparker4, but the middle position on the 5 way switch operates the bridge and neck pups, not the middle alone............... at least that's what the Fender service diagram states??

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/telecaster/011-8342C_SISD.pdf

OlRedNeckHippy
June 12th, 2013, 01:05 PM
I thought the same mod was necessary Before I actually got my Nashville, but after having it and practicing/giging with it for 3 months, I've changed my mind. It has such a wide range of tones as it is, I won't be moding it for quite some time. It's wonderful, right out of the box.

waparker4
June 12th, 2013, 01:11 PM
Thanks for the reply waparker4, but the middle position on the 5 way switch operates the bridge and neck pups, not the middle alone............... at least that's what the Fender service diagram states??

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/telecaster/011-8342C_SISD.pdf

Weird!

I like the middle pickup tone on a strat, a lot.

As much as the tele bridge pickup? I don't know.

Personally, I would probably like the neck/mid position least, and might consider changing that to middle only, which would be easy

But get to know the guitar as it comes first!

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 01:15 PM
I thought the same mod was necessary Before I actually got my Nashville, but after having it and practicing/giging with it for 3 months, I've changed my mind. It has such a wide range of tones as it is, I won't be moding it for quite some time. It's wonderful, right out of the box.

Weird!

I like the middle pickup tone on a strat, a lot.

As much as the tele bridge pickup? I don't know.

Personally, I would probably like the neck/mid position least, and might consider changing that to middle only, which would be easy

But get to know the guitar as it comes first!

Thanks to you both for the input, this bender thang is all new to me, and I can't wait to get it home this Saturday!!

Probably wise advice to try her as is, but I was just wondering if the wiring "could" be done to retain the stock 5 way and add a middle only in some way??

OlRedNeckHippy
June 12th, 2013, 01:16 PM
Wow, that's interesting.
The B-Bender and the Delux Nashvilles are wired differently, according to the Service Diagrams (thanks Moleng1). The Delux middle position is middle pup only and does not have a Neck and Bridge setting, the B-Bender middle position is Neck and Bridge, and it does not have a middle only setting.
Gotta wonder why.

Mike Simpson
June 12th, 2013, 01:22 PM
Thanks for the reply waparker4, but the middle position on the 5 way switch operates the bridge and neck pups, not the middle alone............... at least that's what the Fender service diagram states??

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/telecaster/011-8342C_SISD.pdf

The Nashville I had (sold it the neck was too thin) was not wired like that and mine had no neck + bridge position like the center on a standard Tele 3 way. I would guess that they changed to this diagram after all the complaints about having no neck + bridge position.

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 01:31 PM
The Nashville I had (sold it the neck was too thin) was not wired like that and mine had no neck + bridge position like the center on a standard Tele 3 way. I would guess that they changed to this diagram after all the complaints about having no neck + bridge position.

I figured that most long time Tele players would want the neck/bridge setting, as most Teles do have this setting.

Not even sure if the mid pup would sound good on its own, but if I can retain the stock setting and add the option, I'd like to try it.

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 01:36 PM
Here is the American Nashville Deluxe service diagram, and it does indeed have a middle pup only setting, but no bridge/neck pup position?? Strange!!

http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/telecaster/013-5300_02B_SISD.pdf

jmiles
June 12th, 2013, 03:45 PM
On my Strats, I use a push/pull pot to turn on the bridge pup when I need it. That way I get all the standard switch positions/combinations, plus bridge and neck, and all three pups when I pull the pot.

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 04:51 PM
On my Strats, I use a push/pull pot to turn on the bridge pup when I need it. That way I get all the standard switch positions/combinations, plus bridge and neck, and all three pups when I pull the pot.

So could I use a push/pull to just operate the middle pup?? Wonder how I would wire that?? Sounds like what I'm looking for.

Guitarist4u36
June 12th, 2013, 05:40 PM
I have one of these myself. Great sounding and playing guitar. These particular model guitars are wired with what Fender calls the "strat-o-tele" setup. This allows you to get both of the most desired Strat sounds (neck/middle & middle/back pickup configurations) while also allowing you to achieve the standard "tele" 3-way type switching configurations as well. Otherwise, with "normal" 5-way switching, you're basically getting the same combinations as a standard Strat. By adding a pull pot or a separate toggle switch, you could add the option of the middle pickup by itself, or you could re-wire it like a standard 5-way, but it's kind of a different beast because this guitar doesn't use a standard 5-way switch as you might think it would. It's a totally different designed 5-way switch and the contact blades are different. You would probably need to swap the switch out for a standard 5-way. I was in the same boat when I got mine....thinking about changing it around to typical 5-way with a Pull pot...because that was what I was used to...but the more I play it, the more I like it as is. Good luck and enjoy your new guitar!!! :smile:

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 06:03 PM
I have one of these myself. Great sounding and playing guitar. These particular model guitars are wired with what Fender calls the "strat-o-tele" setup. This allows you to get both of the most desired Strat sounds (neck/middle & middle/back pickup configurations) while also allowing you to achieve the standard "tele" 3-way type switching configurations as well. Otherwise, with "normal" 5-way switching, you're basically getting the same combinations as a standard Strat. By adding a pull pot or a separate toggle switch, you could add the option of the middle pickup by itself, or you could re-wire it like a standard 5-way, but it's kind of a different beast because this guitar doesn't use a standard 5-way switch as you might think it would. It's a totally different designed 5-way switch and the contact blades are different. You would probably need to swap the switch out for a standard 5-way. I was in the same boat when I got mine....thinking about changing it around to typical 5-way with a Pull pot...because that was what I was used to...but the more I play it, the more I like it as is. Good luck and enjoy your new guitar!!! :smile:

Thanks for the reply, I did find, through a little searching, this post.....

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/just-pickups/305647-5-way-switch-question-2.html

Which pretty much gave me everything I needed to know, seems it can be done, and still retain the stock B-Bender set up, as well as an alternative second set up using a push/pull to add a middle only position on the 5 way (along with the other stock settings).

Very interesting read, and the attached website on the post is a wealth of wiring knowledge!!

jbmando
June 12th, 2013, 06:36 PM
I'll tell you when I get mine, but the Specs all say that the middle position is the middle pickup. That diagram (dated 8-1-2000) is the only place I have seen that the third position gives you the bridge and neck pickups together. I actually think it will be cool if mine is wired that way.

moleng1
June 12th, 2013, 08:34 PM
I'm hoping its wired for bridge/neck!! If not, I'll have to find a way to wire it that way!!

jbmando
June 12th, 2013, 09:33 PM
Back in the 90s I had a Japan Squier Strat with a Hot Rails stacked HB in the bridge and two push/pull tone pot switches which turned on the bridge pup when ever it wasn't on or split the coils of the Hot Rails. I had eleven tones if I remember right.

HB and switch down:
Bridge HB
Bridge HB/middle
Middle
Middle/Neck
Neck

HB and switch up:
Bridge HB
Bridge HB/middle
Middle/Bridge HB
All three w/HB
Neck/BridgeHB

SC and switch down:
Bridge SC
Bridge SC/middle
Middle
Middle/Neck
Neck

SC and switch up:
Bridge SC
Bridge SC/middle
Bridge SC/middle
All three w/SC
Neck/Bridge SC

Pretty cool guitar.

Mike Simpson
June 12th, 2013, 09:42 PM
My 3 P-90 Tele is wired like a Strat with a standard 5 way switch and has a push pull sw on the tone pot to get n+b, I prefer it wired this way.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/just-pickups/196558-wiring-diagram-3-p-90s.html#post2569696

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/tele-home-depot/51920d1276467866-tres-recogida-especial-img00356a-jpg

smokeygills
June 12th, 2013, 10:02 PM
I use this on my own Nashville deluxe tele and highway one strat. Neck + Bridge with the flip of a switch. Simple install too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stratocaster-Telecaster-Coil-Tap-Mod-Fender-Custom-Shop-Mods-SPDT-Mini-Switch-/221077661654?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item33794167d6

jmiles
June 13th, 2013, 11:40 AM
"So could I use a push/pull to just operate the middle pup??"
Sure! Easy as could be. Two wires and the P/P pot. Find where the "hot" lead from the pup goes TO the 5-way, and solder a wire from there to the pot's switch. From the other lug on the pot, solder a wire to the output of the 5-way switch.

moleng1
June 13th, 2013, 04:04 PM
Thanks jmiles, and everyone for the input. Appreciated!! Can't wait to get this bender home!!!

Silverface
June 13th, 2013, 04:50 PM
However - you may not care for the tone of the middle pickup alone. It does not sound anything like a Strat middle pickup alone. Fender put it in a different place along the string length; consequently, the harmonics it picks up are totally different. I find the tone kind of harsh in a notch filter/upper mid kind of way.

But play around with pickup height - it makes a very big difference and depending on the pickup itself it might sound fine. Personally, though, in that specific position I prefer a P90-ish pickup or a Filtertron (or PAF-type, or other lower output humbucker).

waparker4
June 13th, 2013, 04:52 PM
However - you may not care for the tone of the middle pickup alone. It does not sound anything like a Strat middle pickup alone. Fender put it in a different place along the string length; consequently, the harmonics it picks up are totally different.

Do you know if this is an issue with e.g. a Nashville tele pickguard from Warmoth?

Silverface
June 13th, 2013, 05:19 PM
I'm not sure about the Warmoth, but you could easily make measurements on your screen and compare it to the Fender pickup cutout.

One other issue, though, is that even if it's moved you can't get the Strat "quack", as the bridge pickup is essentially a pickup/copper plate/bridge assembly and the neck pickup's not in the same spot as a Strat's either. It can be a useful setup, but many players expect to get a "Strat with a bender" out of it, and it just doesn't happen.

Closest 3-pickup, Tele-like production model I've found that DOES get close is the G&L ASAT with the Z3 pickups (especially Will's model, with the overwound bridge pickup). Because of the Z pickup's configuration each one covers more harmonic territory than any Tele pickup, and they manage to get a good Tele bridge tone as well. Really well designed. As far as production models go, that's my preference for a 3-pickup, Tele-like guitar. And although I prefer the Evans Pull String by far, if you desperately needed a 3-pickup bender "T" style off the shelf the domestic G&L Will Ray signature model with Hipshot is, to me, a better overall guitar than the Fender Nashville b-bender Tele (I have not yet seen one of the imported versions to compare).

jbmando
June 14th, 2013, 02:43 PM
I just took mine out of the box. All the specs listings are wrong. The ones at AMS, Sweetwater, zZounds and even fender.com say that the third switch position is the middle pickup. It isn't. It is the neck and bridge - the classic Tele 2 pickup sound. This does not make me mad in the least. All the tones are useful this way. The other way, you get the middle by itself, which I would very rarely (probably never) use.

Rick Towne
June 16th, 2013, 10:59 PM
[QUOTE=Silverface;5097668]"However - you may not care for the tone of the middle pickup alone. It does not sound anything like a Strat middle pickup alone. Fender put it in a different place along the string length; consequently, the harmonics it picks up are totally different. I find the tone kind of harsh in a notch filter/upper mid kind of way."

Silverface is right. I have my middle setting on the 5-way setup for the bridge and neck combination. The neck-middle combination is my second choice after the bridge only.

http://https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201415598694960&set=a.1250511825964.37347.1324552690&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf