WHICH Attenuator? (long post)

I've got a 50 watt non-Master Volume monster. Other than the Pentode/Triode switch I will be wiring into it, I'm looking at Attenuators.

I've been reading up on all of the available attenuators, and I'm getting close to "buy time". I have not been let down by you fellow TDPRI'ers ever, so time to get some more help from my friends!

Which Attenuator would you guys recommend?

I want to use it for multiple amps, not just my main beast (including my 6 watt Champs).

THD's HotPlate is OHM/Impedance specific - bummer for multiple amps. It also "compensates" for the human ear's response to high volumes (recordings are NOT the human ear, so does anyone have any experience recording with one of these?).

Weber MiniMASS/normal MASS always seems to be TDPRI'ers favorite, but then again Weber seems to be any Fender amp fan's top choice especially due to the speakers magic w/ Fender amps. Specify which, the Mini or standard MASS, if you are for the Weber vote.

I've read mixed reviews about Marshall's Power Brake. Some have even had the PTranny blow due to poor solders in the unit. Has Marshall resolved this recently? The only possible selling points thusfar to me are:

1. It's mainly for a Marshall, so I'm sure it's been designed and tested with Marshall's in mind.
2. The Marshall logo would match the amp's logo hehe ;)

Finally,
What's the difference between Weber's Load Dump and the MASS products? Are the extras in the standard MASS worth it, or would it be best to stick with the MiniMASS?

on price, flexibility and tone, Weber wins. I think all the "first tier" attenuators (THD, Dr. Z, Weber) sound good (standard caveats apply for extreme attenuation).

Weber gives you mulitple impedence (for multiple amps) and all the bells and whistles you'd want for FAR less than the others.

Plus, depending on your amp wattage, you've got choices: full sized Mass, Mini Mass, and Load Dump. The load dump is a resistor-type attenuator while the masses use speaker "motors" (speakers without the cones) to produce the variable load a real speaker presents to the amp.

I started out with an Airbrake, but sold it buy Weber because I had Fender and Marshall amps, so my impedence issues were huge (2 ohm to 16 ohm).

I now have a full size Mass, a mini Mass and a load dump. Love them all. Essential parts of my rig.

I love my MASS. Mines an older model. before the new rackmount ones before the Mini. I never use the DI features so if I were buying today I'd grab the Mini.

SOUNDS great with my Main amp, an old Marshall 2204 as well as my Fenders. very versatile and can handle all loads.

that said the Hot Plate gets a lot of kudos esp on Marshalls. I'd love to try one some day but they are expensive.

I use mine for Live and studio.

Don't get a Marshall Power Brake, the THD and the Weber sound better and are safer for the amp. If cost and multiple attenuators are not an obstacle, my personal recommendation would be to get a THD Hotplate for the Marshall and for any Tweed amps you've got, and a Weber Mass for any Blackface type amps you've got. If you have to have only ONE attenuator to cover all of them, get the full sized Mass in a wattage somewhat higher (at least 1/3) than the wattage of your biggest amp. According to Ted Weber, the Load Dump is for slight volume reduction, the Mass sounds better than the Load Dump with greater degrees of volume reduction.

Sorry for this temporary hijacking but I need to clarify something on the Webermass.

There's no electrical outlet plug required to give it electricity right? I'm just asking 'cause over here we use 220V and not 110V like in the US.

Thanks.

The mass is a passive device, no ac power needed. They sound great!

I've used a Hot Plate for most of my gigs for over 5 years. I have no complaints at all, although I'd recommend not going beyond two "clicks" of attenuation. I've also recorded with the Hot Plate, no problem. The drag for you is that they are impedence-specific, as you mentioned. One thing to think about is that some amps, like Fenders (not Marshalls), are not fussy about matching impedence perfectly, so you might be able to mismatch without jeopardizing your amp. I'd give Andy at THD a call to discuss this issue. He has always been a great source of information for me. Also, he is a lap steel nut, so we get along well :D

I also have a Mini-mass, velcroed to the floor of my home-brew 5E3 cabinet. This amp is my small-gig, grab & go amp. The Mini seems to work well, but I have much less experience with it than the Hot Plate. The price is right, for sure, although I bought my THD unit used, so I didn't have to spend too much money. Good luck with your search.

I have a Marshall 1987X that I bought a MASS for a couple of years ago. A friend came over to play the next day with his Dr. Z Airbrake. For the sake of experimentation, I did an A-B test between the attenuators and ended up sending the MASS back, eating the shipping and restocking fee, and buying an Airbrake. The Airbrake was much more transparent in my rig than the MASS, which, to my ears, had more of a PPI master volume sound. I have subsequently A-B tested the Airbrake and a THD Hotplate, and they sound pretty much identical.

IMO, YMMV, yadda yadda yadda

Are you guys able to get any clean sounds out of your rigs when using a Mini Mass? I got one for my Classic 30, and it seems to be impossible to get a nice, clean sound when the attenuator is on.

I called Ted Weber and asked him about it, and he said it was just the nature of attenuators. (Funny, I've never heard anybody say that, and it would be nice for him to put that in the description...) Anyway, have any of you experienced the same thing?

Curious, how does the Weber mini mass colour the tone? I mean a description of the colouration please?

It seems to add a little bit of grit; not a big deal on single notes, but very noticable on chords, they sound very overdriven. It doesn't color the tone, so much as add "breakup," which isn't what I'm looking for.

There's a certain "fizziness" to the sound if I attenuate too much with my MASS. It disappears as the volume goes up.

I love my MASS. You just can't turn it down too far. I got the treble boost with mine to make up for the high end being cut. Even with the treble boost on, there's still a loss of high end. Not always necessarily a bad thing.

Don't forget the Dr.Z Airbrake.

It's a bit pricey, but can be had used for ~$225, and isn't impedance specific. It handles up to 100W, if I'm not mistaken.

I have one, and although I don't use an attenuator too much, it's quite transparent.

They're also pretty hot on the use market, so if you don't like it, you'll be able to get your money back pretty easily.

I've never noticed my attentuators, themselves, adding any "grit." It may be that you are running your amp harder and developing the amp's natural distortion, which you can now hear because the attenuator lets you get there at reasonable volume -- this is, after all, one of the primary purposes of the attenuator.

As for the Dr. Z impedence -- Dr. Z is silent on the issue (as are most industry reviews). My understanding (when I owned one) was that it could handle a range of impedence (like, 4-8 ohms), but that was not selectable. Sort of like Fender amps being able to handle an impedence mismatch better than some other amps. Personally, I found it better to be able to select the impedence I needed and know that I had a close match.

In any event, IMO you can't go wrong with a Weber, Dr. Z, or THD. It boils down to how much you want to spend and what features you want. To my ears, all of these units work very well within the general limits of attenuators (i.e., any attenuator at "10" isn't going to sound that great).

It may be that you are running your amp harder and developing the amp's natural distortion, which you can now hear because the attenuator lets you get there at reasonable volume

That's what Ted Weber said, too. The thing is, it happens when I'm not running my amp (Classic 30 w/new tubes & Weber Cali speaker) very hard at all-volume @3-4. I guess I need to face the fact that, even though it's one of those things that lots of folks rave about here, it's just not my cup of tea... just like Broadcaster pickups & 3-saddle bridges! :)

Are you guys able to get any clean sounds out of your rigs when using a Mini Mass? I got one for my Classic 30, and it seems to be impossible to get a nice, clean sound when the attenuator is on.

I called Ted Weber and asked him about it, and he said it was just the nature of attenuators. (Funny, I've never heard anybody say that, and it would be nice for him to put that in the description...) Anyway, have any of you experienced the same thing?

The whole purpose of an attenuator is to let you get your power tubes clipping without going deaf. I'd say it is doing exactly what it is designed to do!

There is a tradeoff of course; if you have the amp cranked and attenuated, there is no way to get any reasonable clean volume out of it.

The ultimate setup would be to have a two-amp setup with one amp attenuated and one amp unattenuated so you could switch between them for varying degrees of overdrive at constant volumes.

Many people just set the amp up for mild overdrive, roll back the volume on the guitar to clean it up, or step on a dirt pedal for more drive or compression.

The ultimate setup would be to have a two-amp setup with one amp attenuated and one amp unattenuated so you could switch between them for varying degrees of overdrive at constant volumes.


This is what I'm doing now with really good results (though I'm doing it all with relatively low powered amps). The Goblin is my clean, unattenuated amp and the PJ is my dirty, attenuated amp -- a Marshall DSL201 is in the wings for higher volume clean if need be. Balanced the two volumes, mic both amps and let the PA do the heavy lifting.

Just snagged a Lehle 1@3 to switch the whole thing . . . Yippee is all I can say.

My vote is forthe Dr. Z Airbrake. Can be used with any ohm load, is rather transparent, and has adjustable steps in attenuation.

Hope this helps.

tomtheguitarguy

I still have a Scholz Research & Development "Power Soak" that Tom Scholz of Boston designed to give him Boston's clean sound.

Still works like a champ.

I found that it does do different things for different amps, of course.

On my HRD, it made it meaner and narlier sounding. Basically, it put some drive in the clean channel.

On my DRRI, it made it smoother. Most notably, it increased the sustain.

I just found and bought a MiniMass off ebay Buy it Now for £50+shipping! Cant wait for it to get here, hopefully its as good as I've heard from various people!