Saddle hieght ??

Does this look unusually high??

http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/46322639.jpg

Another Angle

http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/46323563.jpg

Not to me... but then I like 'em high. Your pickup might be a bit low though...

Your second picture ain't showing.

Not to me... but then I like 'em high. Your pickup might be a bit low though...

Your second picture ain't showing.

Yeah I know but Ihaven't gotten to the pups yet, I'm still working on string setup.


I see the 2nd pic no prob

It doesn't look like the bridge would match the neck radius...especially if its a 7 1/4" vintage radius. The bass strings in particular look too high. I have some radius templates that came in one of Dan Erlewine's Guitar Setup books (I think How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great is the title), and StewMac also sells some, but I just use a ruler to verify the string heights at the 12th fret. The bass strings should be a little higher, but not as high as yours looks.

John

I see the second picture now. Thanks.

With respect to the action, the height of the bridge saddles above the top of the bridge is primarily determined by the neck angle.

I'm assuming that the action is Ok with you where the saddles are currently set. If you want them lower, and if you have shimmed the neck, then you'll have to remove some of the shim thickness so that the neck runs more parallel to the body - right now the headstock is probably a little further in the direction towards the back of the guitar body. If you haven't shimmed the neck, then you might have to "reverse shim" with a little thickness towards the headstock side of the neck pocket.

Having them higher - as they are - might give you better sound because the string "break" angle is more acute. A lower saddle height opens up this angle more.

It's really more of a personal preference kind of thing - as long as the action can be adjusted to your liking.

John

The neck radius is compund 10 to 16 inches.

Joe

The action is pretty good but I might need to deepen the nut slots a hair. Right now I'm at 5/32nds at the 12th fret and I'm still dialing the neck relief a touch but I think things need a week or to to really settle out. Sound is pretty darn good even acoustically.

My take:
YES... the saddles are too high for your given action.
Is your action "5/32"... or did you mean 5/64's???
(5/32 is high!!!!)

My theory....also shared by others:

1). The lower the break angle of the saddles for your given action--- the more mids and bass come thru.
A high break angle gives the impression of more 'sustain'-- but my take is you are hearing more 'highs'.

2.) Lower break angle gives the string a looser feel---easier for bends.

3.) Seymour Duncan is an advocated of low saddles for your action: He feels this brings the rear pup deeper into the ferrous bridge plate, thus adding to that combination's mojo (steel plate bridge w the magnetic field of the pup).

4.) Buzz Feiten is an advocate of Shimming the HEADSTOCK END of the neck pocket.
(Thus.... low break angle at the saddles).
He feels it adds more depth/complexity. I feel he just hit upon what I found out at #1. (more mids/bass open up.)

5.) go ahead experiement---try a small shim in the HEADSTOCK end.

6.) your radius is fairly flat.
The matching the string height exactly to the radius is NOT fixed in stone. -For example, on a 7 1/4 radius--- I like a radius about 9- 10" for the string action.
REMEMBER--- the inner string area of the radius is at the height of that radius---so you can have slightly lower strings there--- you're not going 'uphill' on bends.... since the strings are already uphill in the area.
-On a tighter radius, I wil have the high "E" slighter higher to clear the radius 'hump'.

****IF... your action really is "5/32's"--- then you probably need to just lower the saddles (to about 5/64 at the 17th fret is a good star on bottom strings, 2/32 for E and B.). -- Probably won't need to shim

IF you love that action at 5/32---then try the shimming to lower the saddle for you action. --(May play sharp more when fretting !!!)

5/64's would be correct not 5/32nds. I'll try a little shimming at the headstock end of the pocket it doesn't cost anything to try.

It looks about twice as high as it should be (to me). When you get it lowered where it should be, throw out those strings and do your normal intonation and setup stuff.

Geeezeeese... you guys must like awful low action.

Sounds like his action about, 5/64's--- is a good normal, esp for a flatter neck (10-16").

What he will be doing (with the shim at the headstock end) is keeping the same action, but 'lowering' the saddles via shimming.

This will angle the neck lower.

When people talk of shimming, normally its at the pup end. - Fender has their micro-tilt-a-world located in the pup end of the neck pocket.

In April, I had my repairman lower the neck pocket (he was able to expertly file it down instead of route).
This keeps the saddles at a low profile. I have similar action as yours.

Yes-- put on fresh strings!!!!

Go to Fender and pick a guitar that yours most closly resembles and download the manual, they'll give you everything you need know to set it up. Find the guitar. Click on support. Click on setup manual.

You see mentioned much less frequently, and little info-- on shimming at the headstock end.

Alot of the info is pointed at shimming the pup end of the neck pocket.

Shadco---


Have you experimented yet??
I am curious!!

Shadco---


Have you experimented yet??
I am curious!!

Doug

Thanks for the interest

Yes I have. First of with a piece of normal business card about 1/2 inch long (front to back) with holes punched in it for screws. Result was that I was able to marginally lower the saddles. I wasn't totally thrilled with the results I had to set the action a touch higher to eliminate buzzing for some reason which doesn't make sense to me. Then I tried another shim this time about double the thickness made out of plastic card stock. Lower saddles but definately the wrong direction and I didn't like it at all.

So late lastnight I removed everything and went back to no shim and for some reason the overall saddle hieght was somewhat lower than the 1st time with no shim. I think I'm happy with no shim but I'm reserving judgement since it seems to me that there is some bedding of components going on.

Each iteration of setup with each shim or no shim also included adjusting neck relief starting with virtually none and dialing it in slowly until it seemed correct for that neck position.

PS Callahams saddle seems to have lower sides than a traditional tele saddle so that may be why some thought the saddles were particularly high.

On to pickup hieght adjustments this evening and next since my Duffs showed up.

1/2" is too big--- front to back.

It should be approx 1/8" and the width of the pocket.

Shadco

look at my above post---your experiment with your shim--- it was too wide.... at 1/2".

-That may be why you had not much lowering of the saddles with that size of shim.
It may need to be a bit thicker too.

Shadco

look at my above post---your experiment with your shim--- it was too wide.... at 1/2".

-That may be why you had not much lowering of the saddles with that size of shim.
It may need to be a bit thicker too.

Yep I got that thanks.

I've got a 1/8th " shim in place now and things are great.

pics of the old v new saddle heights??

pics of the old v new saddle heights??

When my camera gets back from Canon. It's in the shop for a defective shutter.

btw the Duffs I popped in are fan freakin tastic

My interest in your experimentation may seem odd---

But--- I guess I am a disciple of the 'lower saddle height' for one's given action. Its benefits are many, as I listed above (somewhere!!).
Unfortunately alot of times it takes shimming the headstock end of the pocket.

As I mentioned before--- when I have this problem, I have the luthier file/ or route the pocket down a little.

My interest in your experimentation may seem odd---

But--- I guess I am a disciple of the 'lower saddle height' for one's given action. Its benefits are many, as I listed above (somewhere!!).
Unfortunately alot of times it takes shimming the headstock end of the pocket.

As I mentioned before--- when I have this problem, I have the luthier file/ or route the pocket down a little.

I took it by my guitar tech last night while I was picking up my legacy (new nut). He did a touch of fine tuning and he was quite blown away with the results especially the tone with the Duffs. I'm having a hard time putting it down to the expense of my other guitars. It cranks through a Carmen Ghia.

Doug likes the sounds he gets through lower saddle height... and I like the ones I get with a higher saddle height.

Good thing there are different strokes...

I must agree with Joe. I have followed this thread and several others and I must say, a Fender feels more "natural" with the saddles sitting low. I learned to play "Tele style" on a very nice 80's MIJ custom. I played it and it only for over seven years. After my repair guy told me the fretboard would not take another refret, I retired the guitar and set about the supposedly pleasurable task of buying another Tele. Long story, short after buying trying and more buying and trying, and not really getting the "feel" of the old MIJ, I examined it and realized the bridge saddles were practically sitting flush on the bridge plate. VERY LOW. So after realizing this I found a Nocaster Relic that had a low neck pocket/angle that postitioned the saddles low. That worked for that guitar but the need for more Teles grew and so did the price tag I paid for them. If I find a cool Tele these days and the saddles ride high, I don't hesitate popping the neck and sliding a shim in there. I usually use one of those big triangle picks, extra light guage and trim off a nice straight peice the length of one of the sides about 1/8 or less wide. Loosen the strings and neck screws and slide it in on the OUTER edge of the neck screws just behind the ser # on the neck plate so the shim sits on the headstock edge of the neck pocket. This give you the most lift and you don't even have to take the strings off. This allows a very natrual feel for the right hand picking and pick and finger technique. Without having to jack your wrist up to meet a higher bridge setting, picking seems to flow easier and the guitar just feels more natural. I know I prefer this type of set up because it is something I have grown accustom to over the years but I would like to hear from others who have found this set up to their liking and others tips on reverse shims or fileing out the neck pocket ect...

In the above post I wrongley named Joe instead of Doug as the "low saddle advocate".

In the above post I wrongley named Joe instead of Doug as the "low saddle advocate".

Cool... I was beginning to think I had taken the wrong pill today. :lol: :lol:

Big Tex

Hope you saw my long-winded history of a lower string 'break angle' for one's preferred action ---mentioned above.
Two ways to do it: shimming the headstock end, or routing the neck pocket lower (my way).

I guess I am such an advocate of lower string break angle for one's action, from my style of being a radical multi-string bender.
I feel it also gives the strings a bit more warmth.

Everyone's taste is different!!! This works for me!!!

(Archtop jazzers prefer a high string break angle)

looks high to me... I had one looked like that and it was on a geetar that had the mircotilt adjusting the microtilt did it for me. I like my action about medium (maybe .080 or so on the high E @ the 12th fret on the stewmac string action gauge if i remember), but not too low so i can still get my fingers under the strings to bend. If the action is too low i lose my grip and the string slips out from under. Anyway with the saddles that high above the lip of the bridge seems like the tilt on the neck is not quite right.... a tapered shim might do the trick...

-kp8--

So here's where we are now. I can set the action lower but I fret out when doing so.

http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/47321031.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/47321035.jpg

And this is what she looks like with just the strap buttons left to do.

http://www.pbase.com/shadco/image/47321032.jpg

You can put a little thicker shim in the headstock end of the pocket.... to lower the over height of the saddles.

It appears you still have room to do this.

THEN.... you can adjust the action for your approx 5/64ths action. And keeping buzzing/fretting out at bay.

Remember: With the shim thingie--- you are NOT lowering your action, just the saddle height/break angle.