Finding the Key of a Song

Hi all, I have an elementary question to ask about theory.

How do I effectively find the key of a song? Right now I am learning to play Smoke on the Water, and by some Google magic I found that it is in G minor. But what I want to be able to do is to identify the key by using certain key information from the song, like chords, notes etc. Is there a way to use the chords or notes of each song and match them to a certain key?

At the end of the day, I would like to be able to listen to any song, experiment and find the chords, from this get the key of the song and then match the notes of the solo. Sorry if this sounds too elementary, but I do hope to learn from you guys. Thanks!

If you can find the chords, then finding the key is usually easy. Most songs will have the I and V (or V7) chords in them. And usually, the first and last chord are the I chord. So sort through the chords and find the I and V, and figure out whether that matches the first and last chord. This usually works, but there are exceptions. Individual notes may or may not help, depending on how many different scales you know. You might run into a funky song. Remember that a set of scale notes are the same for several modes.

Leading tones help.

Smoke on the water is an interesting example. It is in Gm and you can hear the bass thumping that G note endlessly... but then what about that big foreboding sounding G# major chord during the chorus (specifically under the word "waaaterrrr")? uh oh!

From what I've gleaned from questions that I've asked here about learning songs by ear, I'd say that the best thing to do is work out the bassline, then using basic major scale theory, eliminate any keys that do not contain all the bass notes - then figure out the chords based on the bassline (often the root notes of the chords are used in rock bass)... Then join the dots :razz:

I'm new to this too - the guys here are great and have helped me SO much!

but then what about that big foreboding sounding G# major chord during the chorus (specifically under the word "waaaterrrr")? uh oh!

'wrong' notes/chords to build tension...

... My usual excuse anyways :lol:

+1 on chord progressions. learn your dominant, sub dominant, and dominant 7th's . Then learn the minor chords that correspond with those keys.

What does it resolve to? Then you'll find the key.

Dude. Forget all that nonsense and just close your eyes and play what you feel.


I had to say that just once in this forum. It felt kinda good.

Dude. Forget all that nonsense and just close your eyes and play what you feel.

I had to say that just once in this forum. It felt kinda good.

Saying things that contradict your very nature there Glenn :wink:

I think that trying to identify all the chords of a song by ear, and then trying to identify the key is backwards -- and counter-productive.

If you start by identifying the key, and learn just a lilttle basic chord theory, then you can greatly narrow down the likely chords that will be used in any song and have some context for your ear to "hear" the chords in relation to the tonic chord. So, if I figure out that "Brown Eyed Girl" is in G major, then I'll start with the assumption that the most likely chords will be G, C and D7 (the 1, 4 and 5 chords), and if I hear a minor chord it's likley to be Bm or Em (the 3 and 6 chords). With a simple song like B.E.G. those assumptions turn out to be mostly correct, as it uses the G, C, D7 and Em chords.

Then, if you can develop your ear so that you truly know what a 5 chord to a 1 chord sounds like (or even something more exotic like the 4 to a "flat 2 major" chord in Smoke On The Water), then the next time you hear it, even in another key, you'll know what chord is being played. (You probably already subconciously know what the 1, 4 and 5 sound like in relation to each other from listening to countless simple blues songs!)

All of this might sound impossible to you now (or even like magic or particle physics), but it isn't. Most players aren't born with great ears. I sure wasn't. They work their way there by doing exactly what you're starting to do.

I think that trying to identify all the chords of a song by ear, and then trying to identify the key is backwards -- and counter-productive.

If you start by identifying the key, and learn just a lilttle basic chord theory, then you can greatly narrow down the likely chords that will be used in any song and have some context for your ear to "hear" the chords in relation to the tonic chord. So, if I figure out that "Brown Eyed Girl" is in G major, then I'll start with the assumption that the most likely chords will be G, C and D7 (the 1, 4 and 5 chords), and if I hear a minor chord it's likley to be Bm or Em (the 3 and 6 chords). With a simple song like B.E.G. those assumptions turn out to be mostly correct, as it uses the G, C, D7 and Em chords.

Then, if you can develop your ear so that you truly know what a 5 chord to a 1 chord sounds like (or even something more exotic like the 4 to a "flat 2 major" chord in Smoke On The Water), then the next time you hear it, even in another key, you'll know what chord is being played. (You probably already subconciously know what the 1, 4 and 5 sound like in relation to each other from listening to countless simple blues songs!)

All of this might sound impossible to you now (or even like magic or particle physics), but it isn't. Most players aren't born with great ears. I sure wasn't. They work their way there by doing exactly what you're starting to do.

Yeah but the question was... How do you identify the key?! Of course if you have the key the rest falls into place...

See Fezz's response above

Yeah but the question was... How do you identify the key?! Of course if you have the key the rest falls into place...

The post included the way to identify the key. When you know what a V to a I (or other chord progression) sounds like, you can hear it and know where it happens in a song, thereby identifying the key. BTW, the rest doesn't fall into place for "Smoke on the Water." There is no G# major (probably technically, in this instance, Ab major) chord diatonic to the key of Gm, which is the same key signature as Bb major, or 2 flats. You have to be able to hear what C to Ab sounds like to know what chord that is. If you know some fairly famous songs, you know that progression - just off the top of my head, "The Breakup Song" by Greg Kihn - Am to F - same root to root progression, although the A is minor in Kihn's case, but the bass line still sounds the same. There are others with that same progression, so if you get used to what it sounds like you can hear it know what it is.

From what I've gleaned from questions that I've asked here about learning songs by ear, I'd say that the best thing to do is work out the bassline, then using basic major scale theory, eliminate any keys that do not contain all the bass notes - then figure out the chords based on the bassline (often the root notes of the chords are used in rock bass)... Then join the dots :razz:

I'm new to this too - the guys here are great and have helped me SO much!

That's an awful lot of work. But if if you can discern I & V you can find the key(s) of any songs.

I kinda use Thorpey's method, mostly in the hopes that the song I'm trying to figure out isn't just the basic I, IV, V tune. Most of those you'll soon be able to pick out in your sleep. There are always exceptions to rules; chords for tension, passing, etc. If you can figure out the chords to a song, not all of them if they happen to be the difficult, more than 3 chord songs (joking), then, using the circle of fifths, you can determine the key of the song, with at least 80% accuracy. It's when you deviate or nudge those little guidelines that you make music that makes the little hairs in your ears stand up and take notice. Granted, I still dig a 3 chord song that makes my toe tap or my fist raise. But that may just be me.

partyfor2 has not rejoined the thread..... I wonder if a lot of this has overwhelmed him.???? AFter all, noone has asked
'What do you know of scales and chord formation?"
''Do you understand that a '3 chord song' is basically a song built on the chords built using the 1st, 4th and 5th intervals as the root for the respective chords?"

I can remember being 12-13 and knowing nothing of theory..nothing of scales or chord formation from those scales. I remember once having that I, IV, and V thing occur to me....and realizing how I could use it to start to understand some basic way of finding the key of a song. I now wish I had some theory training before I had to stumble onto that realization on my own. But...somehow I developed an ear that can hear anything except complex things and understand the basic chord progression as I listen to it...without an instrument in my hand. I sometimes find sounds that I have never played before...without knowing what they are. Later, analysis will reveal what in the world I am playing. That analysis came after the ability to play something that I have never heard...whether it is something I am learning that someone else has written or whether I am making music of my own.
So, in a way, I might agree with Boney Guy....but hta I know is a bit too simplistic...for me, at least. I like to understand what it is I am doing..at somep point, anyway...if only to be able to communicate it to someone else.

So, to partyfor2....my advice is to start learning scales and chord formation.
Pay attention to the chords of the music that you do know. Learn the scale of a song that you know. Come to understand how that song is constructed from that scale.
Take a song like 'Smoke on the WAter'...try to follow/pick out the bass notes. This will almost always lead you to the root of the I chord...and therefore to the key of the song. You will hear things 'resolve' to a 'home'. The scale of that key will lead you to understanding the other chords....except those 'outside' things like that G# in 'Smoke' ....which is outside of the scale. IF you 'hear' the scale, you will know when something is not 'inside' that scale.

What does it resolve to? Then you'll find the key.

'Ceptin for Sweet Home Alabama. Producer Al Kooper (Roosevelt Gook) swore up and down that the D-C-G chord progression was 1-7-4 in the key of D. The whole band thought it was a 5-4-1 progression resolving down to the G root:mrgreen:

'Ceptin for Sweet Home Alabama. Producer Al Kooper (Roosevelt Gook) swore up and down that the D-C-G chord progression was 1-7-4 in the key of D. The whole band thought it was a 5-4-1 progression resolving down to the G root:mrgreen:

Maybe I'm all discombobulated but how is C the 7 in D? Or is the b7 just assumed/understood by everyone but me?

I just use the major chords in a song to determine the key, myself. I think that has always worked for me. Maybe I just play a lot of easy songs. From the Big Book of Easy Songs.

'Ceptin for Sweet Home Alabama. Producer Al Kooper (Roosevelt Gook) swore up and down that the D-C-G chord progression was 1-7-4 in the key of D. The whole band thought it was a 5-4-1 progression resolving down to the G root:mrgreen:

Kooper's right, cuz the F/C turnaround resolves to D. That and to blow a pent solo over it (unless you follow the chord changes) it's D baby.:lol:

I don't care who says otherwise, "Sweet Home Alabama" is NOT in G. Kooper, Fezz and Mr. Mixolydian, says it's D. Yes, D Mixo, but D nonetheless. And yes, the key signature is one sharp - same as G, but the stinkin' song is in D.

Hi all, I have an elementary question to ask about theory.

How do I effectively find the key of a song? Right now I am learning to play Smoke on the Water, and by some Google magic I found that it is in G minor. But what I want to be able to do is to identify the key by using certain key information from the song, like chords, notes etc. Is there a way to use the chords or notes of each song and match them to a certain key?

At the end of the day, I would like to be able to listen to any song, experiment and find the chords, from this get the key of the song and then match the notes of the solo. Sorry if this sounds too elementary, but I do hope to learn from you guys. Thanks!

I recommend you learn the fine art of Ear Training.
Its all about learning as much as you can, as fast as you can, and still remembering it the next day.

~ ST

SHA gets discussed a lot and it's an interesting example of the competition between what our ear tells us and what we 'know' intellectually to be true. Theoretically it appears to be a V-IV-I in G. The problem is however that the G sounds/feels/behaves (for most ears I think) like IV and not I.

And since music is first and foremost an auditory experience the key of D mixo wins according to my way of thinking.

... but the stinkin' song is in D.

Made me laugh out loud. Thanks bud.:lol:

What does it resolve to? Then you'll find the key.

Exactly. What is the last chord in the song?

Oh, I have to disagree on the key of sweet home alabama. It's totally in G. What about all the other 5-4-1 songs? can't you see? can't you see it's in the key of G. haha

TQ Play the progression. D/C/G/F/C/D. Then stop. You'll hear it.

"Can't You See?" is in D too, for the same reasons given for "Sweet Home Alabama." Trouble is MTB copped out and faded the song out. Come to think of it, SHA fades out too. I'd bet they end it on a D live in both cases. People act like SHA is the first song with this chord progression. What key is "Dear Mr. Fantasy" in? How about "Shouldn't Have Took More Than You Gave? by Dave Mason? Clue: A mixo and C mixo.

Maybe I'm all discombobulated but how is C the 7 in D? Or is the b7 just assumed/understood by everyone but me?

I just use the major chords in a song to determine the key, myself. I think that has always worked for me. Maybe I just play a lot of easy songs. From the Big Book of Easy Songs.

C is the natural 7 in D mixolydian. The Mixolydian mode has the same characteristics as going from sol to sol (5 to 5) in a major scale. D mixo occurs in the key signature of one sharp, which is the same as G major, which has a C natural. Nobody would say a song is in G if it's in E minor, would they? Same thing. Same key signature, different tonal center.

Yeah I play "Can't You See" a lot, and I always end it with a big fat D chord. Not that my live performance of a song should ever be considered any sort of figure of merit (LOL!), but I do think this song is in D...likewise for Sweet Home.

Whoa guys, that is a LOT of input in 12 hours! I just went to asleep, woke up and bam, a world of info! It will take some time to read and analyse what you guys have typed, so please pardon my tardiness in responding, Wally :p.

I do know some basics, up to a point. Like how major chords are 1-3-5 of its corresponding scales, certain popular chord progressions and other stuff. But its more of how do I apply these knowledge to everyday learning? Ok so I know how a chord fits into a scale, so I 'deduced' that I could work backwards to find the key, but as pointed out by some, that it is counter-productive (but intuitive in my case) and perhaps I should try to identify the chord that a song resolves to.

So could I seek for an example from you guys as to how to identify the V-I in some songs? Perhaps in songs like Smoke on the Water, where not the actual chords (like a full Gm or Cmaj chord) are used? I am always confused when power chords come into play! Once again, I apologise for the 'newbie-ness' in my terminology!

Can't you guys just play SHA in D mixo and G? That means, correspondingly and simply, you got like 8 scales you can play over the 1-7-4. Weee!

'Can't You See'.....SHA.....

to the tuen of the first....


"Can't you hear?
Can't you hear....
What key this song
Is played in?"

IF you hit the proper guitar lick to fit the song, one MIGHT understand that it is in Dmixolydian. Same with SHA..... The fact that those guitar lines all lead back to the D major chord is a big clue. IF you don't believe that, then end these songs on a G chord....and every guitarist who has ever played these songs will jerk their head around to see whadahey????
Like this????

x........................................3..
x........................................3....
x.........7....................5........4........
x.............7....................5....5......
5...5...............3....3.............5........
x........................................3....

Whadahey????? EVery ear will want that resolution to D...whether they accept the key as D mix or not...they will HAVE to hear it. That big G chord jsut doesn't finish the phrase properly.


AS for what to play over those chords, the basics of both songs are played following the scale for each individual chord. SHA....1,5 and 8 intervals out of the D and the C. ON the G, the main thought is a G major pentatonic, right? Then, back to the D. CYS is worked out of straight major scales of D, C, G and back to D. LEad lines might venture outside of these things, but the basics are what define the structure of the song...unless I am mistaken...and that would not be out of the qeustion as ya'll know. I can play the songs properly, though...without worrying about the theory....as boneyguy eralier suggested one should do! (;^)

Another way I have been using lately with my own songs to figure out the key, when its not obvious and there is a minor chord in the song, usually on the bridge, is to use a circle of 5ths chart. I find the minor chord on the inside of the circle, and then the key is on the outside of the circle opposite it.

For me the songs with minors are the hardest to figure out. If it is just CFG,EAB,GCD I know anyway.

Blueshawk wrote: "If it is just CFG,EAB,GCD I know anyway."

YOu might want to reread the posts above on the discussion of two such songs that have D,C and G in them.

Whoa guys, that is a LOT of input in 12 hours! I just went to asleep, woke up and bam, a world of info! It will take some time to read and analyse what you guys have typed, so please pardon my tardiness in responding, Wally :p.

I do know some basics, up to a point. Like how major chords are 1-3-5 of its corresponding scales, certain popular chord progressions and other stuff. But its more of how do I apply these knowledge to everyday learning? Ok so I know how a chord fits into a scale, so I 'deduced' that I could work backwards to find the key, but as pointed out by some, that it is counter-productive (but intuitive in my case) and perhaps I should try to identify the chord that a song resolves to.

So could I seek for an example from you guys as to how to identify the V-I in some songs? Perhaps in songs like Smoke on the Water, where not the actual chords (like a full Gm or Cmaj chord) are used? I am always confused when power chords come into play! Once again, I apologise for the 'newbie-ness' in my terminology!

You apply those to everyday learning by matching the sounds you learned to what you're hearing. If you grab your guitar, and play that V(7) -> I in every key a bunch of times, you'll start to get a feeling for how it sounds. Or use your internet and peek at some lead sheets with the chords on them, using your knowledge of keys and scales to find where in a particular song there's a V -> I change, then listen to the song and hear how it sounds. All that will build up your ears.

Then when you listen to a song, see if what you're hearing fits something you know.

Basically, you play something you know to learn how that thing sounds. Then you look for that sound when you're learning a song. Eventually, you'll have a lot of sounds you know, and you'll find them more often in the songs you want to learn.

Power chords aren't so difficult (unless they're distorted -- I have a bit of a time hearing through distortion). They're just chords without the third in them -- just roots and fifths. Not really major or minor by themselves. Only major or minor within the context of a scale.

For example, since we have been talking about "Smoke on the Water" the organ plays the Gm, but the guitar really vamps around on a G power chord. You can hear the minorness coming from the organ and the vox, but the guitar solo is strictly minor. Ritchie Blackmore had a cool way of sticking "outside" notes into his solos, but it is definitely minor.

I was thinking about SHA earlier and running the chords through my head...it's a difficult one for sure, and I think you could end it on the D or the G and it wouldn't sound "wrong" either way.

Contrast it with two other D-C-G songs though, which to me are dead certs. Warren Zevon's Werewolf In London would sound unfinished if you ended it on D, and G definitely sounds the right "home" and therefore the key for that song. On the other hand She Sells Sanctuary by The Cult only sounds right if it ends on the D - like it does just before the quiet bridge in that song.

To me, SHA is somewhere between those two songs on the "Is it D or is it G?" line.

"Werewolves of London" is a different animal. It is V IV I in G. Same chords as SHA, but not the same feel or tonal center. "She Sells Sanctuary" on the other hand vamps on the D a little before the song starts, and establishes, if you will, that the tonal center is D. SSS is D mixo; SHA, CYS are D mixo; WoL is G.

Oh, the old "what key is SHA"!

I am no pro, but finding the I-IV-V, and home/resolution (the last note or chord of the song or the chorus or similar) etc goes a long way. Of course not all song fall into any key "perfectly", most don't, it'd be a boring world if all did!

I never studied or really played Smoke on the water. The riff starts and end on the G5, so I assume it were in G, and as it has the minor third (A#5) in the riff, so I'd think the song is in Gm.

Around these here parts, we call the minor third of G, Bb. A# is the augmented second.:wink::cool: (#9, really)

The best explanation for SHA I've heard is that the vocal melody is in G and the guitar licks are D.