Are Sperzel Tuners worth it????

I've tossing around the idea of switching out the F tuners on mly '75 tele and going to Sperel locking tuners. I really don't wnat to get inot much modification. Does anyone know anything about using these turners on this model year guitar?

Not sure about weather they will fit your guitar, but they take a 10mm hole. They are great tuners but fender locking tuners are pretty good and the planet waves seem to work fine too. Sperzels have the nicest finish.

Well, you can make them fit, but you'll have the original screw holes showing, and you'll need to drill for the anti-rotation pins. There is some good info on installation here (http://www.tkinstruments.com/id94.htm).

http://www.tkinstruments.com/8c1b84a0.png

I don't know how much of a consideration it is, but you'll definitely hurt the value of your '75.

KevinB, thanks for the candid advice. It is a consideration. I bought this guitar new and play it on and off. It would be my go to if the tuners were a little more forgiving. The "F"'s that are on it now move some during a gig. Tweaking on the fly is difficult. That's why the tuner switch out.

Yeah, I have a '73 Custom that I've had since 1976. Those F tuners were never very good, but mine are so far holding up, and I would be extremely reluctant to change them.

I've also heard that the modern, replacement, F-tuners aren't much better and may not even match up to the early Fender ones.!

Cheap Ping tuners are great. They stay in tune too.
Have you tried tightening the little screw on the button on the Fenders, that tightens the clutch?

Locking tuners are heavy, neck dive time, and don't do any better a job.

Cheap Ping tuners are great. They stay in tune too.
Have you tried tightening the little screw on the button on the Fenders, that tightens the clutch?

Locking tuners are heavy, neck dive time, and don't do any better a job.

Neck dive from a tuner change?! What are your tuners made of, freakin plutonium?!!!

Simply answered...no. I favor Fender's vintage style ping tuners.

Neck dive from a tuner change?! What are your tuners made of, freakin plutonium?!!!

The Sperzel lockers are 7.5 ounces per set.

Some other possible choices are 5.5 ounces a set.

When you suspend the tuners so far out there beyond the Center of Gravity, just a couple ounces can suddenly make a nicely balanced guitar into a burning wreck.

Physics, is all it is. The Sperzels aren't even average weight metal, they're aluminum; they're just big contraptions, with lots of parts.
Frankly it is the double whammy: Weight, and serious bulkiness in their appearance.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/Bubbanov/28NOV012008001.jpg

Don't know if I can help but I have fender locking (Schaller) on my MIM 60th anniversary Strat and they hold tune and look great! A bit pricey but I like them. I have Sperzel on my Carvin 127 and they fit and hold tune great! Price not bad. lastly I have Planet Wave cutter/lockers on my own build and will be changing them soon. Make of this all as you may.

The physics involved in discerning the difference of 2oz at the headstock is trumped by reality. Espescially once you factor in the resistance of the strap, and the fact that you are holding the neck in your hand! I hear this nonsense on forums with some frequency but just repeating nonsense over and over again doesn't make it true.

I have sperzals on all of my gits. They work and stay in tune...nuff said.

Keith Richards uses 'em. (FWIW)
I have them on my trem guitars (Strat and Gretsch). No neck dive at all. The Strat's a partscaster, so I didn't have to redrill anything. I can't tell if they were replacements on the Gretsch 6120-60 or not. I bought it used and it had them on there.

But for non-trem guitars, they make string changes quick and easy, but decent tuners on a well set up guitar (properly cut nut especially) will work just fine.

Neck dive from a tuner change?! What are your tuners made of, freakin plutonium?!!!

No, but locking tuners are getting on about twice the weight of the ordinary sort.

The tele neck already weighs over half of the body blank. Adding weight to the end of the lever pushes it down. So if you have a light body blank you could be in for some guitar wrestling.

Me, I like my guitars balanced when I'm playing them. The last thing I need to do is support the neck.

Plus, I have never seen the point of locking tuners - a cure for a non-existent problem.

Giggle- this is so silly! I have sperzels on any guitar I use for gigging.

The Les Paul guys started this `your tuners are too heavy thing` going from klusons to grover rotomatics.
It`s thought that more mass at the headstock gives you a sustain bonus, but robs you of some highs. I haven`t noticed that.

Sperzels fall about in the middle weight wise of availiable parts.

BUT YOU GET THEM TO STAY IN TUNE!
And they do that really, really well. I tune my sperzel guitars about once a year, and they are only a few cents off by that time.

I read an interview with the Twang Bar King, Adrian Belew, and he said `I use locking tuners, so I don`t HAVE tuning problems.`

I like the sperzels better than other locking tuners -they`ve held up well, american made and all that.
As long as I can remember, the word on fender has been `cool guitar -change the pickups and the tuners`
So if you are playing this guitar - it`s worth it.

I have tried some Sperzel sound locs - kinda expensive, but not too heavy. I think they look pretty cool and they work great.

http://www.specialtyguitars.com/p/02-03001.html


I'm not affiliated with the business in the link.

The physics involved in discerning the difference of 2oz at the headstock is trumped by reality. Espescially once you factor in the resistance of the strap, and the fact that you are holding the neck in your hand! I hear this nonsense on forums with some frequency but just repeating nonsense over and over again doesn't make it true.

I've got locking tuners on my tele and can confirm that this is not an internet myth, it really does make a difference in the overall balance of the guitar, especially if you have a light weight body. The neck acts as a lever for the additional weight, and amplifies the effect of the heavier tuners.

Now, the difference is not major, and a good strap will still keep the guitar stable, but sitting down, balancing the tele on my knee, it does nose dive more readily than stock telecasters.

The physics involved in discerning the difference of 2oz at the headstock is trumped by reality.

So, your reality is better than my reality.

That's a disrespectful thing to say.

I don't know how thin your neck section is, but in the size/girth of necks I am assembling, I'm already running 500-550 grams before the finish, the nut, the string tree, or the tuners are included. If I could spare any additional weight on the neck, I'd add additional dimension to the neck. I'm against the stops, though. I look at where the CG falls (something I picked up as a kid building free flight model airplanes) and for me, it can't fall forward of a certain point. And the proof is in the using, with any strap, or played seated.

I'm simply not going to squirm, and tell the guy who wants to buy my guitar, "Oh, it'll balance if you use a wide enough strap". That's not my style. I don't think you are going to find I am alone in this way of doing things, if you wanna check around.

I've had Sperzels on two of my Strats for 20 some odd years. Great tuners.

The complete neck of my Baja weighed in at well over 1000g or >2.1/2-lb.
I was surprised at how heavy that neck was. It is a thick one even for a Baja, itself weighs in total at 8-lb on the nose.

It balances well but I wouldn't want any more weight on the headstock.
That CofG is important, get it wrong and it ruins playability.

As for tuners slipping, I've got 40+yo Teisco rubbish 6-on-a-strip tuners that do not slip even with a Jazzmaster trem, and I bend the hell out of strings.
My Gretsch has open back Stay-Tite, and a Bigsby, they do not slip.
My Baja has Ping, they do not slip. My AmSer doesn't slip either.
My 1968 Yamaha has a Bigsby, those old tuners do not slip.
My Aria STG3 stratoclone has POS tuners and a whammy, they do not slip.
Learn to put strings onto the posts, and they simply do not slip.

you dont have to use sperzels which to me are way too heavy

gotoh make excellent locking tuners that dont have that awful knurled lump of metal on the back - they make quite few models one of which looks exactly like the old kluson vintage tuners and will plug straight into any vintage neck

They're great for guitars with vibrato systems. They made my DeArmond Starfire Special into a guitar that returns to tune every time!

A perfectly balanced guitar IS a wonderful thing, but I don't believe that the vast majority of players would notice a difference of such a small amount. To discourage someone from making what is very likely a vast improvement to the performance of the guitar AND thereby to her or his experience and enjoyment playing it over the pursuit of the perfect 50:50 balance ratio seems rather alarmist at best. Thousands of players have made this simple modification with satisfying results. The internet is not crammed with "Sperzel tuner weight has ruined my guitar!" posts. I appreciate your goal of creating a perfectly weighted guitar, but let's also be reasonable in addressing the scope of the problem and the effectiveness of each possible solution. Sometimes the simplest solutions really are the best ones. :wink:

I would add one small caveat however - have them installed professionally by a reputable guitar technician if you're not comfortable doing it yourself. It's well worth the nominal investment. :smile:

Grover makes a locking tuner similar to the Sperzel and less expensive. GFS sells a Sperzel clone. These Grovers are 3x3 but you get the picture.

firstly, there is no pressing need for locking tuners on non-trem guitars. some say lockers will make for faster string changes, but i've never seen that to be true. imo, a well built vintage style 15:1 or 16:1 tuner such as the gotoh (my fave) is a workhorse for teles.

imho - sperzels are The Worst locking tuners. they have a very low ratio which is at best 12:1, the knurled locking disc is so thin that it hurts yer fingers when using tightening pressure, and the quality of materials and build are the pits (i replace sperzels for customers on a regular basis with a far better quality rear locking tuner such as schaller, hipshot, planet waves, etc). there isn't a top locking tuner worth squat, rear lockers are far better. again, imho and ymmv.

I've got sperzels on a Les Paul, I think. There OK. I prefer Planet Waves Trim Lock tuners though.

I've tossing around the idea of switching out the F tuners on mly '75 tele and going to Sperel locking tuners. I really don't wnat to get inot much modification. Does anyone know anything about using these turners on this model year guitar?


I have a 72 Strat with the F tuners and had one break a knob. I didn't want to modify the guitar and hurt the value. I scoured eBay for a while and actually found a brand new set of new old stock F tuners from the early 70's in the original packaging.
That is another way to proceed.
Here's a few pics of the tuners.

Old on the left and new on the right and the package from the new tuners in the background.
http://dcfrench.smugmug.com/photos/1122119049_V472s-L.jpg


http://dcfrench.smugmug.com/photos/1122119025_XtUfx-L.jpg

They're great for guitars with vibrato systems. They made my DeArmond Starfire Special into a guitar that returns to tune every time!

Did I mention that I have two guitars with Bigsby, one with a Jazzmaster, and another with a "vintage" strat trem.

You can paddle these things as hard as you like, dive-bomb them, and they stay in tune, not a locking tuner in sight. The trick with a vibrato is getting the mechanism to come back to the same place twice, they're normally rigged up as a de-tuning lever :oops: A little care and effort (and oil) sorts that.

If you wrap the string onto the post properly, they stay put. Regular tuners are designed not to slip.

The only advantage I can see to the locking tuner is the speed at which you can change a string. Seeing as I'll never break any speed records for string changing, that hardly bothers me.

I like taking time over changing my strings, not really sure why speed is an issue (unles you only have one guitar I suppose). I also like tuning my guitar. It's part of my mental preparation ritual before I play. I think I'd be disappointed if I only had to tune it once a year!
None of my guitars have problems staying in tune and none have locking tuners - and I play quite hard (hamfisted?)

BUT YOU GET THEM TO STAY IN TUNE!
And they do that really, really well. I tune my sperzel guitars about once a year, and they are only a few cents off by that time.

I don't believe I'd a told that one brother.:oops:

So, your reality is better than my reality.

That's a disrespectful thing to say.

I don't know how thin your neck section is, but in the size/girth of necks I am assembling, I'm already running 500-550 grams before the finish, the nut, the string tree, or the tuners are included. If I could spare any additional weight on the neck, I'd add additional dimension to the neck. I'm against the stops, though. I look at where the CG falls (something I picked up as a kid building free flight model airplanes) and for me, it can't fall forward of a certain point. And the proof is in the using, with any strap, or played seated.

I'm simply not going to squirm, and tell the guy who wants to buy my guitar, "Oh, it'll balance if you use a wide enough strap". That's not my style. I don't think you are going to find I am alone in this way of doing things, if you wanna check around.

so... how much "neck dive" does a snark cause?

BUT YOU GET THEM TO STAY IN TUNE!
And they do that really, really well. I tune my sperzel guitars about once a year, and they are only a few cents off by that time.

I don't believe I'd a told that one brother.:oops:

I have a new method of tuning a tele with Pings.
Chuck the guitar onto the back seat. Do an emergency stop so hard that it hits the back of the seat and falls onto the floor of the car. Haul tele into a really hot sweaty bar. Check tuning with clip-on.
No adjustment required.