Modern pop music too loud and all sounds the same: a study

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/26/us-science-music-idUSBRE86P0R820120726


LONDON | Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:03am EDT

(Reuters) - Comforting news for anyone over the age of 35, scientists have worked out that modern pop music really is louder and does all sound the same.

Researchers in Spain used a huge archive known as the Million Song Dataset, which breaks down audio and lyrical content into data that can be crunched, to study pop songs from 1955 to 2010.

A team led by artificial intelligence specialist Joan Serra at the Spanish National Research Council ran music from the last 50 years through some complex algorithms and found that pop songs have become intrinsically louder and more bland in terms of the chords, melodies and types of sound used.

"We found evidence of a progressive homogenization of the musical discourse," Serra told Reuters. "In particular, we obtained numerical indicators that the diversity of transitions between note combinations - roughly speaking chords plus melodies - has consistently diminished in the last 50 years."

They also found the so-called timbre palette has become poorer. The same note played at the same volume on, say, a piano and a guitar is said to have a different timbre, so the researchers found modern pop has a more limited variety of sounds.

I knew it wasn't me.

Now when my wife complains that I don't have anything "new" I can tell her there's a perfectly valid scientific reason for that.

Modern pop is complete garbage, why am I not surprised?

I believe much of the actual research was conducted by the independent firm of U. Kidds, Gett & Ofmalon.

I believe much of the actual research was conducted by the independent firm of U. Kidds, Gett & Ofmalon.

:lol:

Who cares. As long as strippers will dance to it...it's OK with me.

This could have been said (minus the algorithm aspect) back in 1992....or 1972....or 1952....or 1932.
When I hear people complain about how lame pop music is (I'm 56, btw) it just sounds like my dad yammering the same thing back in 65.

I think to a degree we are loyal to our youthful periods, and to us, what sucks is that old timey crap our parents listened to, and this new noise that the kids seem to like so much.

On the bright side, no one is putting a gun at your head and making you listen.

Blame the music business. They find a proven formula for which the masses will shell over their hard earned dough.
And then they beat it into the ground to make as much money as possible.

Rinse and Repeat.

Great more in depth scientific findings on what makes generational differences.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elicross
I believe much of the actual research was conducted by the independent firm of U. Kidds, Gett & Ofmalon.


+1

When I was a lad, back during the Crimean war (well, the late 70s) music wasn't so utterly soaked in skull-splitting bass. People who make and listen to bad music are obsessed with excessive bass, as if it makes bad music sound better.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23996523.jpg

good, confirmation...

I can't be accused of generational bias as most of the music I love was made right around the time I was born. Seems to me that the best pop music was coming out in the late 60's, early 70's and the 90's (which is really my generation), at least to my ear.

I was thinking about this the other day. I was reading 'Life' and Keith Richars was describing how they couldn't play more than 15 minutes at a time in their early career, as the teeny boppers would basically riot and force them off the stage.

It's hard for me to imagine a 15 year old girl getting all bothered about The Rolling Stones, considering what's fashionable among that set these days, but I guess it was true. Hard to believe.

My wife listens to pop music and it really seems to me that not only are most of the musicians singing in the same, kind of 'whiny' voice (if male), but are singing about the same things (poor me, no one understands me, I'm so hurt, if you could only see... blah blah blah blah), to the same handful of chord progressions, mostly in the same key! There's very little melody, and it's just so dreary to my ears.

I chalked it up to getting old, but maybe it's not as simple as that...

Blame the music business. They find a proven formula for which the masses will shell over their hard earned dough.
And then they beat it into the ground to make as much money as possible.

Rinse and Repeat.

Blame the masses for shelling said dough

As technology gets more and more advanced, instruments cheaper, and the possibility of creating music is opened up to more and more people, popular music gets... scientifically, mathematically more boring???? I don't think this is just a generational thing, my $.02

I stick to the local acts and away from the major labels. Not all modern music is boring, in fact, most of it is pretty awesome. It's just the stuff on the top 40 station that bores me to tears.

On the other hand lazer light shows are at an all-time high!

5pidokakU4I

Look out, you may have awakened the Nostalgia Police!



C'mon Waparker, you might have science and facts and stuff on your side, but if there's one thing I've learned in my short time here, it's that


There's good music in every decade
There's bad music in every decade
Questioning the actual ratio will get you nowhere, on account of subjectivity
Music is as good now as it ever was
if you disagree, you are old and out of touch
Science and facts and stuff don't mean anything, you're just old and out of touch


I think that covers it. Now no one else has to post those responses:lol:

I am not old, but I am out of touch.. on purpose

Look out, you may have awakened the Nostalgia Police!



C'mon Waparker, you might have science and facts and stuff on your side, but if there's one thing I've learned in my short time here, it's that


There's good music in every decade
There's bad music in every decade
Questioning the actual ratio will get you nowhere, on account of subjectivity
Music is as good now as it ever was
if you disagree, you are old and out of touch
Science and facts and stuff don't mean anything, you're just old and out of touch


I think that covers it. Now no one else has to post those responses:lol:

^^^^ This :wink: :lol:

5pidokakU4I

Hahahahaha! That's Hilarious!!!!!! The new "c-f-g":lol:

There seems to have been a lot of variety in the top 40 in the mid to late 60s. Here is a random, and I do mean random, sampling of some that popped into my head:


Pictures of Matchstick Men
Foggy Mountain Breakdown
Strangers in the Night
Classical Gas
To Sir, With Love
Do You Know the Way to San Jose?
What’s New ***** Cat?
Wichita Lineman
Green Onions
My Cheri Amour
Paperback Writer
Sunshine of Your Love

There seems to have been a lot of variety in the top 40 in the mid to late 60s. Here is a random, and I do mean random, sampling of some that popped into my head:


Pictures of Matchstick Men
Foggy Mountain Breakdown
Strangers in the Night
Classical Gas
To Sir, With Love
Do You Know the Way to San Jose?
What’s New ***** Cat?
Wichita Lineman
Green Onions
My Cheri Amour
Paperback Writer
Sunshine of Your Love

+10000 .....SO much variation, truly a Golden Age....I bought a "new" Cd....not only did all the songs sound the same, it sounded like the SAME SONG.........yyeeeeeeeccchhh!!!!! Jimo (The admitted Old Codger) haha:lol:

There seems to have been a lot of variety in the top 40 in the mid to late 60s. Here is a random, and I do mean random, sampling of some that popped into my head:


Pictures of Matchstick Men
Foggy Mountain Breakdown
Strangers in the Night
Classical Gas
To Sir, With Love
Do You Know the Way to San Jose?
What’s New ***** Cat?
Wichita Lineman
Green Onions
My Cheri Amour
Paperback Writer
Sunshine of Your Love

A case can also be made for differences in radio format. At that point, more radio stations honestly played more kinds of music, from every genre. Presently, there aren't stations that do that. There're rock stations, country station, hip hop stations, jazz stations, et cetera, et cetera. Since someone can say to themselves, "Wow, I really like this one kind of music played on this one station," they listen to that one station, and similarly formatted stations.

In previous decades, that station might play Green Onions, then an hour later Sunshine of Your Love. In doing that, market penetration for ANY song on that station of ANY style was nearly guaranteed.

Separated music leads to homogenized listening, if you want to blame anyone, blame Curtis Media and Clear Channel for separating stations by genre format and precipitating the loss of variety.

My wife listens to pop music and it really seems to me that not only are most of the musicians singing in the same, kind of 'whiny' voice (if male), but are singing about the same things (poor me, no one understands me, I'm so hurt, if you could only see... blah blah blah blah), to the same handful of chord progressions, mostly in the same key! There's very little melody, and it's just so dreary to my ears.


As opposed to, say, doo-wop in the 50's where every other song was 1-6-4-5 in a flat key (with a bridge modulating to the dominant key) with same sounding voices and harmonies singing about girls.

(:grin:)

Sure, in every decade you can cherry-pick interesting stuff. It's what's statistically prevalent that's being discussed.

Old news - look up "volume wars".

And this isn't about good or bad, but about volume and complexity. I don't see how anyone can argue with the last two paragraphs in the OP, at least in terms of popular music, which is what this is about.

I agree GP, except I could argue that


"pop songs have become intrinsically louder and more bland in terms of the chords, melodies and types of sound used..

We found evidence of a progressive homogenization of the musical discourse..

the diversity of transitions between note combinations - roughly speaking chords plus melodies - has consistently diminished in the last 50 years..

the so-called timbre palette has become poorer..

modern pop has a more limited variety of sounds."



is about good vs. bad. But hey, it's all subjective(that part anyway)

How can you conclude it's intrinsically louder? Isn't it only as loud as you dial it in?

How can you conclude it's intrinsically louder? Isn't it only as loud as you dial it in?

I think that means that the RMS average of the signal is higher on modern recordings. They cut very close to, or at peak, then compress to bring up the lower levels. If you A/B an old recording and new one without touching your volume control, the new will usually be louder to your ears.

I think that means that the RMS average of the signal is higher on modern recordings. They cut very close to, or at peak, then compress to bring up the lower levels. If you A/B an old recording and new one without touching your volume control, the new will usually be louder to your ears.

I see, like the way commercials on TV are louder than the TV show.

Has anybody read this book (http://www.amazon.com/Perfecting-Sound-Forever-History-Recorded/dp/0571211658)?

I really couldn't say - I don't listen to modern pop music. It's too loud and all sounds the same ... :mrgreen:

I wonder if some of the dumbing down of pop music is due to the younger age of the population segment that buys recordings? In the swing era of the 40's it seemed the record buying folks were late 20's through 30's. Then with the advent of rock and roll in the mid 50's it seemed that the older teenagers and people in their 20's were the target audience. Nowdays most pop music like Beiber and Nikki Minaj seems geared for tweens. Might help explain the simplification...

A lot of great music is very similar to contemporaneous works. Delta blues, Chicago blues, jump blues, bossa nova, bebop, classical symphonies, 12-tone, Italian arias, boogie-woogie, a Dead concert, Philip Glass, LaMonte Young, subsets of Zappa's works, bluegrass, I can't stop,...Chopin, Liszt piano works, subsets of Bach's genres, etc.,...Seinfeld episodes, Jackson Pollack. Hey, Pollack is going to inspire a new thread. Watch for it in Bad Dog.

I really couldn't say - I don't listen to modern pop music. It's too loud and all sounds the same ... :mrgreen:

You win the thread

You win the thread

I have a definitive feeling we ain't finished yet - but thanks anyway. :wink:

The music industry changed direction when pop "princesses" and boy bands came onto the scene in the late 90s/2000s. This is specifically the moment that pop music started to really stink. MTV stopped playing music. Reality TV began. Image became the only important character trait to entertainment outlets.

I might have to challenge Telemark on this one!:lol:

A lot of folks said the same thing in 1966.

To quote half the thread, "yes, but they've been saying that for decades."

And just as the article said, it's been happening for decades. Which means it's more true now than ever, not less.

Eventually, we'll get back to a single chord that's the best one, and just play it with the synth patch that's the best one. And then popular music will be perfect. :razz:

The music industry changed direction when pop "princesses" and boy bands came onto the scene in the late 90s/2000s. This is specifically the moment that pop music started to really stink. MTV stopped playing music. Reality TV began. Image became the only important character trait to entertainment outlets.

I know! Thank god we didn't have teen idols in the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties.

I agree that it's bland. I don't listen to it, but I've caught a bit of it on Palladium on TV, and, for the most part, there's no virtuosity in either musicianship, singing, or songwriting. No interesting melodies with cool hooks, no guitar solos that make you sit up and take notice, nor singers that do the same thing. Just endless, monotonistic repetitive blah.

How can you conclude it's intrinsically louder? Isn't it only as loud as you dial it in?

I think that means that the RMS average of the signal is higher on modern recordings. They cut very close to, or at peak, then compress to bring up the lower levels. If you A/B an old recording and new one without touching your volume control, the new will usually be louder to your ears.

I see, like the way commercials on TV are louder than the TV show.

Sorry, it's loudness wars, not volume wars....
loudness wars (http://musicmachinery.com/2009/03/23/the-loudness-war/)

My wife listens to pop music and it really seems to me that not only are most of the musicians singing in the same, kind of 'whiny' voice (if male), but are singing about the same things (poor me, no one understands me, I'm so hurt, if you could only see... blah blah blah blah), to the same handful of chord progressions, mostly in the same key! There's very little melody, and it's just so dreary to my ears.



Exactly. I can't stand this whiny voice style of singing. Just not what I think a voice should sound like.
Another reason everything sounds the same: drum loops make the rhythms too precise and sound the same. Auto tune does the same thing. It strips voices of their character, and makes everyone sound the same.

A lot of folks said the same thing in 1966.

exactly.

"Pictures of Matchstick Men
Foggy Mountain Breakdown
Strangers in the Night
Classical Gas
To Sir, With Love
Do You Know the Way to San Jose?
What’s New ***** Cat?
Wichita Lineman
Green Onions
My Cheri Amour
Paperback Writer
Sunshine of Your Love"

List used to show the great diversity of music at the time. I heard these on the radio when they were hits. Here is how I felt about them at the time.

Pictures of Matchstick Men (don't remember hearing this)
Foggy Mountain Breakdown (hated it)
Strangers in the Night (really hated it)
Classical Gas (despised it)
To Sir, With Love (gaaawkkk)
Do You Know the Way to San Jose? (please kill me)
What’s New ***** Cat? (pleeeease kill me)
Wichita Lineman (alright I'll kill myself)
Green Onions (hated it then)
My Cheri Amour (ahh I've just been dipped in sugar coated ******)
Paperback Writer (liked it OK, not one of my fab favs)
Sunshine of Your Love (liked it but don't remember hearing it that much)

2 for 12. And a truly diverse array of cr*p.

I can tolerate some of this now, even appreciate some of it. Even enjoy listening to it in a camp sort of enjoyment way (Tom Jones?). But at the time...

Or are we talking about how we are going to feel about today's music 45 years in the future? Cause I'll be dead and won't really care.

Haha! Colorado, I can always count on you to be intense!



How's the new Bieber?

No, ok, how's the new Katy Perry?


No? Um, how's the new Carly Rae Jepsen?

Adam Lambert? Offspring? Linkin Park?


(taken from the Rolling Stone top songs of the summer 2012, in case you guys were worried)

Yeah, this stuff sure will stand the test of time

I wonder if some of the dumbing down of pop music is due to the younger age of the population segment that buys recordings? In the swing era of the 40's it seemed the record buying folks were late 20's through 30's. Then with the advent of rock and roll in the mid 50's it seemed that the older teenagers and people in their 20's were the target audience. Nowdays most pop music like Beiber and Nikki Minaj seems geared for tweens. Might help explain the simplification...

+1. Never thought of this

I just don't get Tweenwave,
SIBBGNlDK5I
but it's popular with the kiddies:
5s2WZv0MXm4








Seriously, though, I was just talking with the engineer mixing who's mixing our record about the trend towards maxing everything out in pop music. It really does make things sound different.

OK, now I'm really ticked off. :mad::lol::mrgreen:

Back then (the golden era) MOST stations were Top 40. That meant the "top 40" singles currently released were played over and over and over and over until people stopped buying them.

Since most songs were around 2 minutes and since they concentrated on the top ten, you would hear the same song several times EVERY HOUR. 24 hours a day seven days a week. The list above would never have been played together (since they span several years).

Bands had to churn out disposable, cathchy garbage that people consumed for a few weeks and then was promptly replaced and forgotten. Here's the top 40 for the "golden year" 1968 in July.

1 Louis Armstrong What A Wonderful World / Cabaret
2 1910 Fruitgum Co Simon Says
3 Cliff Richard Congratulations
4 John Rowles If I Only Had Time
5 Small Faces Lazy Sunday
6 Andy Williams Can't Take My Eyes Off You
7 Tom Jones Delilah
8 Hollies Jennifer Eccles
9 Honeybus I Can't Let Maggie Go
10 Paper Dolls Something Here In My Heart
11 Showstoppers Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty
12 Engelbert Humperdinck A Man Without Love
13 Beatles Lady Madonna
14 Reparata & The Delrons Captain Of Your Ship
15 Box Tops Cry Like A Baby
16 Herd I Don't Want Our Loving To Die
17 Jacky White Horses
18 Monkees Valleri
19 Cilla Black Step Inside Love
20 Otis Redding (Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay
21 Four Tops If I Were A Carpenter
22 Gene Pitney Somewhere In The Country
23 Easybeats Hello How Are You
24 Union Gap Young Girl
25 Roger Miller Little Green Apples
26 Esther & Abi Ofarim Cinderella Rockefella
27 Bobby Goldsboro Honey
28 Paul Mauriar Love Is Blue (L'Amour Est Bleu)
29 Diana Ross & The Supremes Forever Came Today
30 Bee Gees Jumbo / The Singer Sang His Song
31 Julie Driscoll, Brian Auger & The Trinity This Wheel's On Fire
32 Bill Haley & His Comets Rock Around The Clock
33 Buddy Holly Peggy Sue / Rave On
34 Massiel La La La
35 Kinks Wonder Boy
36 Love Affair Rainbow Valley
37 Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich Legend Of Xanadu
38 Dan Partridge Rosie
39 Lulu Me The Peaceful Heart
40 Dorian Gray I've Got You On My Mind

A couple of OK songs.

Let's single out some of the truly great ones though:

2 1910 Fruitgum Co Simon Says
6 Andy Williams Can't Take My Eyes Off You
7 Tom Jones Delilah
11 Showstoppers Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty
12 Engelbert Humperdinck A Man Without Love
18 Monkees Valleri
21 Four Tops If I Were A Carpenter
22 Gene Pitney Somewhere In The Country
23 Easybeats Hello How Are You
24 Union Gap Young Girl
25 Roger Miller Little Green Apples
26 Esther & Abi Ofarim Cinderella Rockefella
27 Bobby Goldsboro Honey
28 Paul Mauriar Love Is Blue (L'Amour Est Bleu)
29 Diana Ross & The Supremes Forever Came Today
37 Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich Legend Of Xanadu
38 Danny Partridge Rosie
39 Lulu Me The Peaceful Heart

I defy anyone to put that on your iPod, only listen to those songs several times an hour for a week and then tell me how great music was back then. :cool:

It ain't if you're underwater while the freaks be trippin'.

A lot of folks said the same thing in 1966.

My parents told me the music was revolting.

Except for a few artists, they somehow stopped to listen to, those were enough different, they gave it a chance.

They never said it sounded all the same to them. And it would've been the reflexive thing to say, and they still didn't say it. For the reasons Larry F listed, I think.

There is something about the way the music "consumer" addresses his or her choice of music. They don't want silence, they don't want dramatic changes in the loudness of what is coming through the earpiece or the computer speaker. There is a technological/consumer aspect to why music is all the same volume that has nothing to do with current youngsters "tastes" and could be explained 100% by the changes in the manner we receive music.

I might have to challenge Telemark on this one!:lol:

You're welcome! :wink:

But seriously - in the 60's a lot of the pop music was new ... Today most of it has been done before - only better. Not saying that there's not good music made today though.

OK, now I'm really ticked off. :mad::lol::mrgreen:

Back then (the golden era) MOST stations were Top 40. That meant the "top 40" singles currently released were played over and over and over and over until people stopped buying them.

Since most songs were around 2 minutes and since they concentrated on the top ten, you would hear the same song several times EVERY HOUR. 24 hours a day seven days a week. The list above would never have been played together (since they span several years).

Bands had to churn out disposable, cathchy garbage that people consumed for a few weeks and then was promptly replaced and forgotten. Here's the top 40 for the "golden year" 1968 in July.

1 Louis Armstrong What A Wonderful World / Cabaret
2 1910 Fruitgum Co Simon Says
3 Cliff Richard Congratulations
4 John Rowles If I Only Had Time
5 Small Faces Lazy Sunday
6 Andy Williams Can't Take My Eyes Off You
7 Tom Jones Delilah
8 Hollies Jennifer Eccles
9 Honeybus I Can't Let Maggie Go
10 Paper Dolls Something Here In My Heart
11 Showstoppers Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty
12 Engelbert Humperdinck A Man Without Love
13 Beatles Lady Madonna
14 Reparata & The Delrons Captain Of Your Ship
15 Box Tops Cry Like A Baby
16 Herd I Don't Want Our Loving To Die
17 Jacky White Horses
18 Monkees Valleri
19 Cilla Black Step Inside Love
20 Otis Redding (Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay
21 Four Tops If I Were A Carpenter
22 Gene Pitney Somewhere In The Country
23 Easybeats Hello How Are You
24 Union Gap Young Girl
25 Roger Miller Little Green Apples
26 Esther & Abi Ofarim Cinderella Rockefella
27 Bobby Goldsboro Honey
28 Paul Mauriar Love Is Blue (L'Amour Est Bleu)
29 Diana Ross & The Supremes Forever Came Today
30 Bee Gees Jumbo / The Singer Sang His Song
31 Julie Driscoll, Brian Auger & The Trinity This Wheel's On Fire
32 Bill Haley & His Comets Rock Around The Clock
33 Buddy Holly Peggy Sue / Rave On
34 Massiel La La La
35 Kinks Wonder Boy
36 Love Affair Rainbow Valley
37 Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich Legend Of Xanadu
38 Dan Partridge Rosie
39 Lulu Me The Peaceful Heart
40 Dorian Gray I've Got You On My Mind

A couple of OK songs.

Let's single out some of the truly great ones though:

2 1910 Fruitgum Co Simon Says
6 Andy Williams Can't Take My Eyes Off You
7 Tom Jones Delilah
11 Showstoppers Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty
12 Engelbert Humperdinck A Man Without Love
18 Monkees Valleri
21 Four Tops If I Were A Carpenter
22 Gene Pitney Somewhere In The Country
23 Easybeats Hello How Are You
24 Union Gap Young Girl
25 Roger Miller Little Green Apples
26 Esther & Abi Ofarim Cinderella Rockefella
27 Bobby Goldsboro Honey
28 Paul Mauriar Love Is Blue (L'Amour Est Bleu)
29 Diana Ross & The Supremes Forever Came Today
37 Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich Legend Of Xanadu
38 Danny Partridge Rosie
39 Lulu Me The Peaceful Heart

I defy anyone to put that on your iPod, only listen to those songs several times an hour for a week and then tell me how great music was back then. :cool:

Totally missing the point. The study in the OP isn't not about "quality" or "what I like" it's about musical diversity & loud mastering relative to POPULAR music.

Here's the Billboard top 100 for the year of 1968:

top 100, 1968 (http://www.chairborneranger.com/top100/top100-1968)

Sure there's plenty of forgettable crap there, but the point is it's a musically diverse list.

I see your point. Although this thread is all over the place.

Honest question. Billboard has maybe 6 different categories now. In 68 did they do the same? Or was there just one list? Is the diversity now in six lists instead of one? I really don't know.

Also Top 40 in my youth was driven by singles. Is that still the case? I can't imagine kids buying singles nowadays. So how do they determine INDIVIDUAL song sales?

Honest question. Billboard has maybe 6 different categories now. In 68 did they do the same? Or was there just one list? Is the diversity now in six lists instead of one? I really don't know.

Someone will probably know, but at least "Sherry" (The 4 Seasons) topped both the pop charts and the R&B charts as the first record to do so. This was in 1962. I'm sure there was a C&W list too - probably others as well.

Also Top 40 in my youth was driven by singles. Is that still the case? I can't imagine kids buying singles nowadays.

Um...have you you ever heard if iTunes? No one buys albums anymore. Major labels are stopping producing CDs in the next two years except for their top top artists.

Well i never listen to mainstream music anymore! Most of it is just noise to me, the best thing i did was join Soundcloud.com and many unknown musicians are way better to listen to. I make my own cd's from there and interact with all of them, share music and create my own!!

It stinks now because I don't think anyone plays an instrument anymore. What new, musically talented bands are out there in pop culture? Just rave music, rehashed over and over, IMO.

And that's JMHO...

Funny, I'm 48 and in the past several years I've discovered several very talented artists that not only have great songwriting kills, play their instruments well and have unique sounds, off the top of my head:

Nora Jones
Maroon 5
Jason Mraz (this cat is freakin' amazing !)

Um...have you you ever heard if iTunes? No one buys albums anymore. Major labels are stopping producing CDs in the next two years except for their top top artists.

This - in 2011 digital sales finally topped physical sales.

Totally missing the point. The study in the OP isn't not about "quality" or "what I like" it's about musical diversity & loud mastering relative to POPULAR music.

Here's the Billboard top 100 for the year of 1968:

top 100, 1968 (http://www.chairborneranger.com/top100/top100-1968)

Sure there's plenty of forgettable crap there, but the point is it's a musically diverse list.

+1

That's a really diverse menu.

We've had some fragmentation lately, with pop divided into various subcategories but yeah, lack of diversity is the #1 difference.

Um...have you you ever heard if iTunes? No one buys albums anymore. Major labels are stopping producing CDs in the next two years except for their top top artists.

+1 in fact the only album I bought that came out last year (besides some local stuff) was The Black Keys El Camino.... on vinyl :lol: albums are a specialty item now

Luckily, vinyl's not going anywhere

Luckily, vinyl's not going anywhere

Mine sometimes goes to my turntable. :wink:

I wonder if the 'classical music' buffs are onboard with the compression that comes with DDL, or whether they still prefer vinyl or even CD?

My collection, from Albinez to Wagner, still has a physical presence chez notdave.

OK, now I'm really ticked off. :mad::lol::mrgreen:

Back then (the golden era) MOST stations were Top 40. That meant the "top 40" singles currently released were played over and over and over and over until people stopped buying them.

Since most songs were around 2 minutes and since they concentrated on the top ten, you would hear the same song several times EVERY HOUR. 24 hours a day seven days a week. The list above would never have been played together (since they span several years).

Bands had to churn out disposable, cathchy garbage that people consumed for a few weeks and then was promptly replaced and forgotten. Here's the top 40 for the "golden year" 1968 in July.

1 Louis Armstrong What A Wonderful World / Cabaret
2 1910 Fruitgum Co Simon Says
3 Cliff Richard Congratulations
4 John Rowles If I Only Had Time
5 Small Faces Lazy Sunday
6 Andy Williams Can't Take My Eyes Off You
7 Tom Jones Delilah
8 Hollies Jennifer Eccles
9 Honeybus I Can't Let Maggie Go
10 Paper Dolls Something Here In My Heart
11 Showstoppers Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty
12 Engelbert Humperdinck A Man Without Love
13 Beatles Lady Madonna
14 Reparata & The Delrons Captain Of Your Ship
15 Box Tops Cry Like A Baby
16 Herd I Don't Want Our Loving To Die
17 Jacky White Horses
18 Monkees Valleri
19 Cilla Black Step Inside Love
20 Otis Redding (Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay
21 Four Tops If I Were A Carpenter
22 Gene Pitney Somewhere In The Country
23 Easybeats Hello How Are You
24 Union Gap Young Girl
25 Roger Miller Little Green Apples
26 Esther & Abi Ofarim Cinderella Rockefella
27 Bobby Goldsboro Honey
28 Paul Mauriar Love Is Blue (L'Amour Est Bleu)
29 Diana Ross & The Supremes Forever Came Today
30 Bee Gees Jumbo / The Singer Sang His Song
31 Julie Driscoll, Brian Auger & The Trinity This Wheel's On Fire
32 Bill Haley & His Comets Rock Around The Clock
33 Buddy Holly Peggy Sue / Rave On
34 Massiel La La La
35 Kinks Wonder Boy
36 Love Affair Rainbow Valley
37 Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich Legend Of Xanadu
38 Dan Partridge Rosie
39 Lulu Me The Peaceful Heart
40 Dorian Gray I've Got You On My Mind

A couple of OK songs.

Let's single out some of the truly great ones though:

2 1910 Fruitgum Co Simon Says
6 Andy Williams Can't Take My Eyes Off You
7 Tom Jones Delilah
11 Showstoppers Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty
12 Engelbert Humperdinck A Man Without Love
18 Monkees Valleri
21 Four Tops If I Were A Carpenter
22 Gene Pitney Somewhere In The Country
23 Easybeats Hello How Are You
24 Union Gap Young Girl
25 Roger Miller Little Green Apples
26 Esther & Abi Ofarim Cinderella Rockefella
27 Bobby Goldsboro Honey
28 Paul Mauriar Love Is Blue (L'Amour Est Bleu)
29 Diana Ross & The Supremes Forever Came Today
37 Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich Legend Of Xanadu
38 Danny Partridge Rosie
39 Lulu Me The Peaceful Heart

I defy anyone to put that on your iPod, only listen to those songs several times an hour for a week and then tell me how great music was back then. :cool:

Top 40 then covered a broader listening base. Not everyone thought Tom Jones or Andy Williams was great, but that several people did, so they got air play. Todays music is diverse also, but alas seems to be fabricated with Autotune to the extent that I find it amazing that anyone could sing or play this stuff live. Seems that Lip syncing would be at an all time high for live performances ? Then again, music is made in the Studio, not on the road , then into the studio, like it was years ago ( at least the stuff you hear on the radio and tv). It's "designed" before it's made.
All in all, if that is what floats your boat, go for it. That is your right as a listener or a performer. It's also my right to listen to stuff that is twangy, to bright, and to old faishioned. Ain't it great, we can all agree to disagree!!! Gotta go play me some "Buckaroo" and "Folsom Prison Blues" now, so bye!

How can you conclude it's intrinsically louder? Isn't it only as loud as you dial it in?

No, clarity and dynamic range has been sacrificed for volume at the mastering stage. Oasis' early albums are classic albums of noise over clarity. Loudness has also been seen as a way for radio to 'grab' channel surfing listeners.

As for the generational arguments about music quality, that will rage as long as there are new generations that get old. There was just as much pop crap in the 60s onwards, only then it probably competed for airtime on a more equal footing with less manufactured stuff. Now most radio and TV is saturated with the mass-marketed Cowell.

Good music isn't dead, you just have to go and look for it, because very little of it will be piped to you anymore.

Um...have you you ever heard if iTunes? No one buys albums anymore. Major labels are stopping producing CDs in the next two years except for their top top artists.I do and many of my friends of my generation.

You can't invent the wheel twice ...

No, clarity and dynamic range has been sacrificed for volume at the mastering stage.

That sums it up for me.There are bands whose recorded music I can't listen to because it hurts my ears after more than one song.The blame lies not with the actual music,but in the way it is mastered and compressed to be loud. This quantity over quality approach completely loses any musical dynamics.

Also, when the Big labels controlled things, horrible as they were, they stopped a lot of sub-par music being made. Now that you can make an album in your living room, a lot of people DO, that shouldn't. :lol:

Also, when the Big labels controlled things, horrible as they were, they stopped a lot of sub-par music being made. Now that you can make an album in your living room, a lot of people DO, that shouldn't. :lol:

Yeah, but it's not like we'll ever hear it so what does it matter?

Yeah, but it's not like we'll ever hear it so what does it matter?

Yeah, you are right, unless you go to those sites you don't have to listen to it---some of it is REALLY good however, but you have to wade through the dreck.

On the list of top 40 stuff....at the same time that was going on, you also have,.

The Beatles, Stones, Who,Kinks, B.B.King, Howlin Wolf...etc.....So there WAS better stuff out there than top 40......

I have given up on Regular Radio---with the classic stations with a 25 song playlist.....

I DO think we are going through a bland period of music----something big will come along soon, I hope.

The Beatles, Stones and others were on the charts back then!

I should have phrased that better, I meant along with the dreck there was great stuff.....that's all.

I'm confused. What are we talking about?

Music used to be more diverse.

The RADIO used to be more diverse

People used to write better songs.

People now write bad songs.

Recordings now have lousy production.

Pop music used to be better.

People now have lousy taste.

Kids don't know how to make good music AND have lousy taste.

Music is mastered too loud and is overcompressed.

Everone was listening to Howlin' Wolf on Top 40 radio in the late sixties, early seventies.

Autotune is the spawn of the devil.

Katy Perry's bodacious tatas are not sufficient for you to listen to her autotuned lip-syncing.

We all have our own opinions and like different things and isn't life grand.

At least I learned a "doh" fact. itunes are the new single. I don't know why that didn't occur to me.

Question:

Is the Black Eyed Peas "I've Got a Feeling" a better or worse pop song than the Supremes "Stop In the Name of Love"?

And do the Black Eyed Peas sound the same as Kings of Leon, Black Keys, Skrillex, Lil' Wayne, Licoln Park, Keith Urban and John Mayer.

So what are we talking about?

Oh man, good questions!







the answer is yes



(see how easy that was?)

*:lol

What are we talking about?

See there was this study, a link to which was provided way back in the beginning of the thread. The OP wanted to discuss that, but this being an internet forum and all, much of the discussion is about anything but that, because people comment on what they think it is about, based on the title of the thread, instead of actually reading the study and discussing the relative merits of said study.

How's that? :cool:

Though I don't think anyone believes Howling Wolf was on pop radio in the 60's and 70's. But anyone who thinks the Black Eyed Peas have better songs than The Supremes must be deaf. :mrgreen:

I'm confused. What are we talking about?

Music used to be more diverse.

It also didn't. The Monkees The Archies... any bubblegum pop.

The RADIO used to be more diverse

It also used to be independent and DJ found and spun discs. Now they'd dead and you've got the suit-sanctioned playlists

People used to write better songs.

Ob la di, Ob la da. What the Hell is Hey Jude about, apart from Na Na Na Nana na na?

People now write bad songs.

Only Nickelback, the rest are computer generated from Internet Memes.

Recordings now have lousy production.

Have you heard any of Bob Dylan's stuff?

Pop music used to be better.

Better than what, Croquet?

People now have lousy taste.

People have always had lousy taste

Kids don't know how to make good music AND have lousy taste.

Kids are people too, only they're smarter. My 8 yo said so.

Music is mastered too loud and is overcompressed.

Sorry, I can't hear you, but you're probably right.

Everyone was listening to Howlin' Wolf on Top 40 radio in the late sixties, early seventies.

I was being born, but I could ask my Mum if Howlin Wolf was on the radio. She might think I've finally lost it tho.

Autotune is the spawn of the devil.

Did Simon Cowell invent that too?

Katy Perry's bodacious tatas are not sufficient for you to listen to her autotuned lip-syncing.

They are. I tun the TV down to savour their bodacity.

We all have our own opinions and like different things and isn't life grand.

If it weren't I'd have to agree with those that say Benny Hinn is my saviour.

At least I learned a "doh" fact. itunes are the new single. I don't know why that didn't occur to me.

They sell movies too.

Question:

Is the Black Eyed Peas "I've Got a Feeling" a better or worse pop song than the Supremes "Stop In the Name of Love"?

Only if you think Diana Ross is hotter than Fergie.

And do the Black Eyed Peas sound the same as Kings of Leon, Black Keys, Skrillex, Lil' Wayne, Licoln Park, Keith Urban and John Mayer.

They do in my house, cos they don't exist.

So what are we talking about?

I don't know, everyone is so easily confused and distracted these... Hey, GET OFF MY LAWN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILFjY2mbarg

[

Though I don't think anyone believes Howling Wolf was on pop radio in the 60's and 70's. But anyone who thinks the Black Eyed Peas have better songs than The Supremes must be deaf. :mrgreen:[/QUOTE]

Well, my top 40 was in Memphis, and I assure you Howlin' Wolf was on there...but probably not on yours.

What are we talking about?




We're talking about whatever we want to talk about. Has it strayed from the original topic?


yup.


So what? You want to read 3 pages of compression discussion?:lol:

That's boring, mate