Playing bass with no amp

OK, this might be a stupid question. It also may have been asked 100 times but I didn't see it anywhere when I checked.

I've played bass for a long time. At least 20 years. I've always played through an amp. First I had a Peavey TKO 75 and now I have a Roland D-BASS 210. I play both bass and guitar at my church, alternating depending on who's playing each week. Lately, when I've been playing guitar the sound people have been getting the other bass player to play directly through the house sound without using his amp. I'm not sure I'm going to like that when it is my turn to play bass again. Now the dumb question: Is there any kind of amp modeler out there to run my bass through instead of just directly into the sound system? If there is anything, what do you recommend? I don't use any effects with my bass and never have, but from what I'm hearing the bass directly into the sound system doesn't sound right. I want to get something that 'replicates' the sound of a good bass amp. I also have to admit that I've never run my bass directly so maybe mine would sound fine through the sound system. It might just be his bass.

Thanks for any advice.

Bass POD

I use a tech 21 bass DI for playing bass at church without an amp. That's exactly what it's for. No digital menus or small screens or multi function buttons. Set it up pretty much like the sample settings in the book and you are good to go. It sounds good to my ears and it is all analog if that matters to you.

I use a POD HD500 for guitar at my church and they recently added a model of the old Ampeg fliptop bass amp so when I play bass I use that. I think it sounds great and I agree, bass direct just doesn't sound that good. It also seems to not send enough signal to the mixer and you can't get enough bass in the mix. You have a tuner, compression, volume pedal.....it's all there. I used to use a $60 Zoom preamp and for the money it was certainly better than direct. I used to goose it a little with a Bad Monkey set for a clean boost to give the sound man more to work with. But yeah, there are a lot of bass preamps/modelers out there that ought to work for you. We have the Tech 21 too and it's good. I just like something with the option of compression to help with the Fender "dead spot" that's really prominent on all my basses.

How do you manage "hearing" the bass without an amp. I have played direct, but was never happy with just floor monitors. Are you using a headphone setup or inear monitors?

Your concern is interesting, but I'd try it straight and see what it sounded like before I'd go adding crap to the signal chain.

The thing that bothers me the most about "only PA" bass playing is the timing issue. You play the note, it comes out the PA speakers and sometime next week that note wanders over to your part of the stage. Unless all I was doing was bwomp-bwomp bass, this would be the deal killer.

I've played duo gigs using a few different things: a simple direct box, an ART Tube MP, and a Yamaha Magic Stomp modeler set to the "classic clean" setting (sounds like a BF Fender voicing to me). All worked, the last works the best for me. Between having some bass in the monitors and hearing the bass from the mains, I'm usually okay...

Tim

I also use the Tech 21 Bass Driver DI when playing bass in church. It's probably the best sounding 'modeling' box I've ever heard, and that includes the POD. I also split the signal at the Bass Driver: the XLR side goes direct into the PA while the other signal goes into a Roland Bass Cube as a monitor. Great sound at low volumes.

And no, you *definitely* don't want to go straight into the PA without some kind of direct box. Bass can sometimes loose definition when going straight into the PA which is why some kind of on-hand EQ is really useful.

Carvin MB10 Micro amp. Has a direct out, pre or post switchable, and a separate volume for the direct out. 200 watts and weighs 23 pounds. Basically you can use it as your own personal bass monitor. Oh and it sounds great.

How do you manage "hearing" the bass without an amp. I have played direct, but was never happy with just floor monitors. Are you using a headphone setup or inear monitors?

So far I haven't played bass this way. I've always used my amp. From where I'm standing playing my guitar I can hear the bass fine through the sound system. The bass player has a monitor in front of him and he says it works good for him. However, being able to hear myself is definately another concern. I've always had my amp behind me thumping away and shaking the floor. I love that feeling! Anyway, my #1 concern is that to me his bass doesn't sound right coming direct. I just wanted opinions on what was out there. Realistically, I am going to try to keep using my amp. I'm just checking ahead in case going 'ampless' is the direction they are looking at going.

I also use the Tech 21 Bass Driver DI when playing bass in church. It's probably the best sounding 'modeling' box I've ever heard, and that includes the POD. I also split the signal at the Bass Driver: the XLR side goes direct into the PA while the other signal goes into a Roland Bass Cube as a monitor. Great sound at low volumes.

And no, you *definitely* don't want to go straight into the PA without some kind of direct box. Bass can sometimes loose definition when going straight into the PA which is why some kind of on-hand EQ is really useful.

+1 This is probably the way I'd approach it too. Even when I've played unplugged gigs in the days when I used a much bigger rig I'd usually send the signal to the PA through my head or a DI like a Tech 21 and then put the bass into the monitor at my feet.

Now I use a very small GK combo, run it to the PA and use the amp as a monitor in my back line and I can do low volume unplugged gigs or electrified higher volume gigs with the same set up. I would not give up the amp as a monitor unless they can send a monitor feed back to you.

I have a Line 6 Lowdown 110 amp. It is loud enough for small club gigs, but it also has an XLR output that sends the modeled signal to a board or mixer. The line out is constant volume, even if you vary the volume on the amp. That way I can still adjust the amp output as my monitor, hear myself and the sound guy doesn't have to compensate.

Using the PA only, the analogy is sitting in front of a full orchestra trying to hear what one individual violin is doing. Can you do that?

You have to be able to hear your own instrument. If you cannot do that then you cannot play it, and you need to hear what the rest of the band is doing too.

There are several ways of doing this, from the most obvious one of using a stage amp, to in-ear monitors. Problem with cans is you can often not hear the rest of the band at the right level.

I think the ideal solution would be a tech21 VT Bass (Ampeg simulation), or Leeds (Hiwatt). All analog, and works great for guitar too.

A guy over on TB posted a couple blind snippets a few years back, SABDDI and Behringer BDI21, and had people guess which was which. Bottom line, no one could tell the difference. Quality of build is a huge difference, though--SABDDI blows it out of the water.

Now having said that, I bought a BDI21 a couple years ago b/c I wanted to try a DI and wasn't sure how much I'd use it and for $30 brand new it wouldn't hurt if it was a POS and broke in a few months. It's still working and sounding fine today. If/when it does eventually die I'll probably look for a SABDDI but in the mean time I'm happy enough with my cheapie.

I've also got a Digitech Bad Monkey and a Crate Powerblock, both with DI's, so I've always got a few options.

I always supplement my bass sound through our PA but always use at least a small amp or combo on stage, too.

If being heard on stage is going to be a problem, ie no stage monitors, you could just add your own monitor. You could do bass=>sansamp=> powered speaker =>PA.

Quite a few years ago I heard the band Lindisfarne play at Cardiff, Bassist had a fantastic sound. I went backstage and got talking to the guy asking what he used etc, and he said nothing straight into PA. Sounded awesome.
A year later I was asked to play Bass at last minute, and was told to use the bass rig other band owned, which didn`t sound that great to me(plus guy told me not to mess with his settings:shock:).
Basically I used a DI box and used main signal for outfront and used his amp as a monitor at very low level. He later came up commenting on what a great Bass sound i had:twisted:

Now the dumb question: Is there any kind of amp modeler out there to run my bass through instead of just directly into the sound system? If there is anything, what do you recommend? I don't use any effects with my bass and never have, but from what I'm hearing the bass directly into the sound system doesn't sound right. I want to get something that 'replicates' the sound of a good bass amp. I also have to admit that I've never run my bass directly so maybe mine would sound fine through the sound system. It might just be his bass.

Thanks for any advice.

OK, the monitoring issue has been discussed elsewhere but regarding the sound of the bass going straight into the PA system, I would say that this is exactly what you are hearing 90% of the time when you see a medium to large live show. The normal procedure is for the sound guy to use a DI box with him taking the direct feed for the PA and the signal also going to the onstage bass amp, mainly for the benefit of the bass player and anyone else nearby on stage. The audience hears virtually nothing of the sound coming out of the amp.

I don't think I've ever known a sound engineer to mike up a bass amp for a live gig and hardly anyone uses a modeler on stage so the out front sound is almost always bass DI'd into PA.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Eden World Tour DI.

It's very common for us sound guys to put a mic on a bass cabinet as well as the DI.... It helps get the cut through and fill out the bottom end without getting muddy

How do you manage "hearing" the bass without an amp. I have played direct, but was never happy with just floor monitors. Are you using a headphone setup or inear monitors?

We use Avioms. I've found with bass that getting some type of earbud that you can get inside your ear a little bit, as opposed to something that just loosely hangs on the outside like the typical iPod types, allows me to hear the bass a lot better. I've never been able to hear bass very well standing near an amp. It's been described to me as a wave breaking on the shore and you really don't hear it where the wave is forming but 20 feet away you can. Trouble is, I never got that much stage space to use!

+1 on the BDI21. Nice piece for $30. Makes a crappy amp sound better, too. Great DI/ speaker sim.

I go direct often. I use either a Radial Bassbone for a 2 channel, fretted and fretless gig or a Sans Amp ParaDriver if 1 bass will do the trick. The 'box' sits on a homemade pedal board with power supply and Korg stomp tuner. Does it sound as juicy as an amp... No. Can I be effective using it, definitely... Some of the places I play it just makes sense from a space and volume standpoint.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Eden World Tour DI.

+1 - this will give you the best of both worlds. At bigger gigs, it is very comon for the sound man to want to get your signal from a direct box. The Eden WTDI will allow you to sculpt a good tone for the main mix and you can also take a line out to a small amp on stage if the floor monitors aren't doing the trick for you.

You could use your current amp (Roland D-BASS 210, right?) as a monitor and send the sound guys a line to the board via the XLR connector that is on the back of your amp. You even have two choices of "flavor" that you can send - a straight unaltered signal or a signal altered by your EQ settings, compression and the COSM section. Seems like a win-win situation to me...

You can use a DI before the amp, and your monitor will be your amp.

Some amps have a DI out so you can go post EQ too. (GK MB200)

I bought a BDI21 yesterday after watching a video on youtube comparing it to the Tech21. I could not tell any difference between the 2 through my cheap computer speakers. Maybe through a bigger sound system I could. Anyway I have nothing to lose if I don't like it. It cost me $40 and I'm going to run it through the church sound system at the practice tonight. If it sounds good I'll use it on Sunday morning. If I like it I'll keep it. If not, the guitar shop I bought it from told me I could return it next week and get my money back. The reason I didn't spend the extra money for the Tech21 is because this is just being used occasionally in church but will never actually replace my bass amp when I am playing at bigger events outside of my church. If I was considering going permanently ampless everywhere I probably would have spent the extra money.

I may still take my amp to use as a monitor or to switch back to in the event that I hate this thing...

I bought a BDI21 yesterday after watching a video on youtube comparing it to the Tech21. I could not tell any difference between the 2 through my cheap computer speakers. Maybe through a bigger sound system I could. Anyway I have nothing to lose if I don't like it. It cost me $40 and I'm going to run it through the church sound system at the practice tonight. If it sounds good I'll use it on Sunday morning. If I like it I'll keep it. If not, the guitar shop I bought it from told me I could return it next week and get my money back. The reason I didn't spend the extra money for the Tech21 is because this is just being used occasionally in church but will never actually replace my bass amp when I am playing at bigger events outside of my church. If I was considering going permanently ampless everywhere I probably would have spent the extra money.

I may still take my amp to use as a monitor or to switch back to in the event that I hate this thing...I'm curious why you don't just send a line to the board via the XLR connector that is on the back of your amp?

I'm curious why you don't just send a line to the board via the XLR connector that is on the back of your amp?

I may yet.

The biggest reason is because as I previously mentioned in a thread back in the Bad Dog forum, my vehicle was written off in an accident and 2 weeks ago we bought a new vehicle. Me, my wife, and my 3 kids all fit great, but unfortunately when I put my bass and my amp in the back I can't close the door! :shock: As I worked my way through this thread and thought about the different opinions expressed here I started to think that maybe going ampless might be the way to go for church. However, if this doesn't work I will go back to putting my amp in the back of the vehicle and laying my bass across my kids knees... :roll:

Ah - missed the back-story... :oops:

If the problem is transporting the amp....why not leave an amp at church. That is what I do, I have one at home, one at church, and actually several more. I know cost is a factor, but it is not hard to pick up a good used bass amp for 100 dollars.

A Line 6 Bass Pod works great for that. You can also go with a Sadowsky DI/Pre Amp.
It's not an amp modeling box but it's a great sounding pre amp with DI built in...and fits in your case. Both about the same price. I have both and use both. The Pod really comes in handy in a project studio and I've used it several times at a local gig where I'd otherwise have to haul my rig up two flights of stairs at the load in then back down at load out. The Sadowsky works great for a DI into the PA too.

I'll vote for the BDI21. Behringer gets a bad rap, but this pedal is a gem. I got mine a few weeks ago and haven't turned it off since. Also good for making a cheap amp sound better.

I got mine right before we went on vacation a few weeks ago. I didn't take my amp with me, took my son's little 10 watt SX practice amp. The BDI21 made it sound HUGE, much better than straight into the amp.

Haven't used it at church yet. I will the next time I play. I love this pedal.

I used it at the practice last night. It worked very well, and I got a lot of comments about how good it sounded from other band members. If transportation was no issue I'd probably stick with my amp, but since I can carry this in my guitar case I think I'm going to stick with it. At least for use in church...

Another +1 for the Eden World Tour. It's only around $125.00 and offers a good EQ and DI in one little package.

OK, sorry to dig this old thread up but after using this BDI21 for 2 months I have another question. First off, this thing sounds great when I run my bass direct into the church sound and I've had a lot of positive feedback from people while using it. It definately solves the problem I had of trying to fit all my family and my bass amp in the car on Sunday mornings. The only thing I've noticed is that there is not very much sustain. When I pull the string, the note pretty much dies right away. It doesn't ring out for awhile like it did through my amp. There is no compression dial on the BDI21 so I'm not sure why it dies out so fast. Anyway, I am considering buying a compressor-sustain pedal so that the notes can be held out longer. My questions are:

1) I've never used any pedals with my bass and I'm wondering if this would even work, or if it's a good idea,
2) If I get one should I run it before or after the BDI21?

Thanks again for any info.

OK, sorry to dig this old thread up but after using this BDI21 for 2 months I have another question. First off, this thing sounds great when I run my bass direct into the church sound and I've had a lot of positive feedback from people while using it. It definately solves the problem I had of trying to fit all my family and my bass amp in the car on Sunday mornings. The only thing I've noticed is that there is not very much sustain. When I pull the string, the note pretty much dies right away. It doesn't ring out for awhile like it did through my amp. There is no compression dial on the BDI21 so I'm not sure why it dies out so fast. Anyway, I am considering buying a compressor-sustain pedal so that the notes can be held out longer. My questions are:

1) I've never used any pedals with my bass and I'm wondering if this would even work, or if it's a good idea,
2) If I get one should I run it before or after the BDI21?

Thanks again for any info.

What kind of strings are you using.

I use the BDI21 too, and I've noticed the effect you are talking about. Try cutting the bass a little and raise the presence. If you're using flats there's not much you can do about it, it's pretty much just the character of the pedal. I use mine as a DI too, but a lot of times I don't turn the effect on.

I use D'Addario EXL170-5 Nickelwound strings. I play a Washburn Force 5 bass with active pickups.

Anyway, it sounds like a lot of people that use the BDI21 find this same issue. Not a big deal. I still love the pedal. Maybe that's just the big difference between the $40 BDI21 and the $200 Tech21. When they were both played side by side I could hear no major difference that made me want to spend the extra money. Maybe the amount of sustain was it.

I'd suggest either get your bass set up by a reputable tech. I know a lot of guys like to do it themselves but a good tech can do wonders, especially with the frets which is where a lot of lower end manufacturers cut corners.

It could also be a pickup height issue (that can sometimes kill sustain). If the instrument is okay, then start looking at the DI.

I have no problems with sustain using my Hamer Cruise through my Sansamp Bass DI. I put my Presence to about 12:30 and that works well. I also started using both P and J pickups on full after someone told me my tone lacked definition (I was only using the P pickup originally, since I'm craving a Fender P). Don't know if that will help, but it can't hurt. Good luck. :smile:

Setup or strings. The amp doesn't really add a big bunch of sustain until you get to fairly loud... Oh yeah, and clean fretting...

Personally i find myself choking notes off way more than missing sustain. I play the bass, not a hammond after all...

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Eden World Tour DI.

Me too. I got mine a year ago & can't live without it. Used it through a Rumble 150 head & found that it sounded better straight into effects return. I just picked up a Beringer A500 strereo amp, used for $125, so I now have plenty of power. Also the WTDI has a direct out to the board & a line out to a powered monitor.

OK, sorry to dig this old thread up but after using this BDI21 for 2 months I have another question. First off, this thing sounds great when I run my bass direct into the church sound and I've had a lot of positive feedback from people while using it. It definately solves the problem I had of trying to fit all my family and my bass amp in the car on Sunday mornings. The only thing I've noticed is that there is not very much sustain. When I pull the string, the note pretty much dies right away. It doesn't ring out for awhile like it did through my amp. There is no compression dial on the BDI21 so I'm not sure why it dies out so fast. Anyway, I am considering buying a compressor-sustain pedal so that the notes can be held out longer. My questions are:

1) I've never used any pedals with my bass and I'm wondering if this would even work, or if it's a good idea,
2) If I get one should I run it before or after the BDI21?

Thanks again for any info.


I use the Tech21 Bass Driver and if the Behringer unit works the same as mine try turning up your drive level to 3/4 and blend up full and you should get all the sustain you could possibly ever need.

I ran my P through a DI box straight into the board for about a year when I played bass at church. Sounds great and I always got compliments on my sound.

I don't use any effects on bass, but I do with guitar. I run my telecaster through a couple pedals then to the DI and straight to the board. Sounds good IMO. Would be better with an amp, though.