Intonation? Bad tuning with capo..

I am having problems with my tele. I will get it perfectly intune and then put the capo on (3rd fret) and the D,G,& B are all off from each other. Im pretty sure this is the intonation correct?:confused:

If so how do i set it right:?:

Is it out of tune on those frets without the capo? Sharp or flat?

First check if the nut is to high. If you press the g string at second or third fret do you have a gap between string and first fret where you can slide in more than one piece of paper it might be a little to high. Also check if the capo is pressning the strings into the fretboard. That might be too much pressure making the strings go sharp.

Could be that the capo is clamping too hard. Are you clamping immediately behind the fret? This makes the detuning more pronounced.

ok i tried changing capos because the one i was using isnt the brand i normally use and ive never had this problem before.. I was using a Dunlop and switched to a kyser.. and now i hardly have any problem

Yah I always try to put it 1/4" -1/8" from the fret. and it is a vintage neck with pretty low frets so i dont think it could be the capo clamping down too hard.

It was going flat with the capo Tim

I had a simular problem with a capo which turned out to be due to the radii of the capo versus the neck making the outer strings flat and the inner sharp relative eachother.

Ok I was wrong, it helped a bit.. but its still doing it!! :(

I have never had problems with this guitar like this..
Any help would be appreciated

I also recently changed strings from Ernie Ball 11's to a DR 11.

And it does intonate without the capo on those frets? Could the strings have been nicked?

Does the problem occur on other frets as well or just that third fret btw?

Does the problem occur on other frets as well or just that third fret btw?

Yes..

Can it be the Strings? I have heard Ernies are made with a hex core and the DR's ar made with a round core... ?

No idea if that affects using a capo.
So, the guitar intonate fine without the capo but the capo throw the tuning flat anywhere you try it on the neck and that is the same with both you have tried. And you have used a capo on this guitar earlier with no problems. So what differs today from the prior occasion when you succesfully used a capo? If we can identify the difference we might solve the problem.

No idea if that affects using a capo.
So, the guitar intonate fine without the capo but the capo throw the tuning flat anywhere you try it on the neck and that is the same with both you have tried. And you have used a capo on this guitar earlier with no problems. So what differs today from the prior occasion when you succesfully used a capo? If we can identify the difference we might solve the problem.

Thats what im trying to figure out. I dont think ive done anything. Maybe i raised the e string a bit a while ago? Dont remember the last time i used a capo.

Should i try intonating the guitar? ive never done it before but i am checking a youtube video and it looks super easy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZVRCMJLnm4

Does messing with the string height adjusters throw off intonation in general?

Yep start with checking intonation and adjust if neccesary. It is not hard and there are lots of good vids and info on this.

As for string height and intonation yes adjusting the action or changing gauge could certainly throw intonation off .

Need to take a screen brake and put my youngest to bed, good luck, Update on your progress.

Try putting the capo right on top of the fret or just a hair behind it, but as with others, check intonation first

The intonation on my AV'62 Custom is pretty darned good but when using a Shubb it is always off on one of the bass strings, or maybe it's the G, I can't remember right now. Anyway, I find it is very sensitive to capo application and it's got the vintage frets. I rarely capo it anyway but I always have to retune one string when I do. Thinking it is possibly just a slight 'push' to the string that I can't really see.

I've set up plenty of guitars so know there should be a way to fix my slight issue but as all else is darned good, I just live with it.

Ok so i got home from a concert tonight and was ready to start digging into it and then i realized.. I dont have the right tool to get to the dang screw!! I have a bigsby roller right in my way. I went to Ace hoping to find something and i found a right angled phillips allen wrench and even it is too bulky..

I dont see how to do this without taking the bigsby off (It isnt screwed into my guitar its sitting on a vibramate), but that would be pointless! Any Ideas?

Oh so you have got a Bigsby on it. Ok could it be that the combination of capo pressning the strings and the Bigsby spring being compressed makes it detune? Never used a capo on a guitar with any kind of trem/vibrato so just guessing really.

Could be i suppose. I guess i give up on the idea of using a capo with it, but now i gotta figure out how to get the darn thing intonated! =\

No experience of Bigsbys SAS enough. Pletnty info on the forum though. But first, have you checked intonation and is it off and needs adjustment?

I see some conflicting and maybe misleading information here, so I thought I'd post some things to bring a little clarity:



Capos are notorious for making a guitar go out of tune. It doesn't matter what the fret size is, all that matters is how hard the capo is clamping down. Spring capos usually press down too hard. I like capos like the Shubb that give you an adjustment screw to get it juuuuuust right.
Sometimes you just have to learn to accept that using a capo will throw your guitar out of tune. The majority of performers I see with a capo retune after applying the capo, or they have a tech do it for them and hand them a tuned guitar.
If the guitar plays in tune at those frets without the capo, the culprit is undoubtedly that the capo is pressing too hard. If they don't play in tune without the capo, then you need a setup.
Intonation is done at the last step of a setup. First you adjust the relief, next you adjust the nut, then you adjust the string height, and last you adjust the intonation. Changing any of the first 3 will affect the intonation.


Hope this is helpful to you.

Where are you located-I have some work for you! PM me!
Paul

I found that the two Keyser capos I have knocked both my Strat and my Tele out of tune when I used them. They work fine on my acoustics.

I bought a Shubb and it works just fine on both electrics. Koko is right--spring-loaded capos are too powerful for a well set-up Fender.

He's also right about the setup process-intonation is always the last step after setting relief and action.

Re-run: You will be able to intonate your guitar if you go get a #1 offset Phillips screwdriver. You won't need to mess with the Bigsby at all. It'll be sort of time-consuming, though. Offset screwdrivers can be worth their weight in gold, but you'll never spin a screw rapidly with one. There is available a ratcheting offset screwdriver that comes with several different bits. I've used them at work and they can be a real labor-savor, but the ratcheting mechanism is somewhat coarse and may be so powerful that the drag on the screw being turned is not sufficient to overcome the ratcheting force.

I see some conflicting and maybe misleading information here, so I thought I'd post some things to bring a little clarity:



Capos are notorious for making a guitar go out of tune. It doesn't matter what the fret size is, all that matters is how hard the capo is clamping down. Spring capos usually press down too hard. I like capos like the Shubb that give you an adjustment screw to get it juuuuuust right.
Sometimes you just have to learn to accept that using a capo will throw your guitar out of tune. The majority of performers I see with a capo retune after applying the capo, or they have a tech do it for them and hand them a tuned guitar.
If the guitar plays in tune at those frets without the capo, the culprit is undoubtedly that the capo is pressing too hard. If they don't play in tune without the capo, then you need a setup.
Intonation is done at the last step of a setup. First you adjust the relief, next you adjust the nut, then you adjust the string height, and last you adjust the intonation. Changing any of the first 3 will affect the intonation.


Hope this is helpful to you.

Kokotele words are wise. I've seen lots of players use the tuners that clip onto the headstock along with a capo, since they're rough on tuning too.

I've had a few capos that had an elastic strap, and noticed that they can easily bend a string a slight bit when tightened down, although it might not be evident. A cent or tune out of intonation in one fret can result in being 3 or 4 cents out further down the neck.

Shubbs seem to work really well though - never had a problem with mine.

I bought a number one offset and it doesnt fit in there =\

I also have set it up for the string height, new bone nut, and relief before i touched intonation and yes the intonation is off.

I just gotta make a tool it looks like..

this is funny someone posted this...i gig with a coverband & they wanted to start playing wonderwall & I have a parts tele with an amazing setup on it & im using a kyser capo on second fret & when i turn on my tuner i notice all the strings are slightly sharp.....
i think its the capo pressing too hard but i hate that song anyway so who gives a &^%$ if it sounds off.....lol

You can adjust saddle length with needle nose pliers from the front or rear if you cannot find a right angle Philips screwdriver

But Imo most of the problem will be the nut slots not deep enough because the problem is caused when capo is on over frets 1-5, and that area on intonation is controlled by the nut. The capo is typically pulling some strings sharp.

There are many threads here on filing nut slots...

Do check and set intonation accurately with a good strobe tuner at 10, 12 and 15, not just the octave, without the capo. It will be a compromise. Then try setting the capo as light as possible.
I set mine just-so at a slant (because it gets in the way of my hand otherwise) about 6mm behind the 6th and mid-fret on the 1st. That way the string does not make a sharp bend over the fret which increases the tension, but far enough forwards to prevent buzzing. And lightly, because the string only has to be held against the fret, not the fretboard.
With a properly cut nut I get no intonation problems using the capo.
Nuts on new guitars and pre-cut nuts never have the slots fully cut because they never know your preferences and what strings you will use.