dupont sonic blue prices?

I went to my local Oriellys since they are 1 of 2 companies locally that can mix dupont colors.
They priced me a quart of 2295 sonic blue, and he told me it was $113ish.
So I asked about a pint. He told me $70ish. I was kind of blown away...
There is a local body shop that carries dupont. So I called them and they said they don't carry lacquer based finishes....
I called Orielly's and and they said they had Acrylic for about $18 a pint.
I said "Acrylic lacquer, right?" He said "I dont show that being lacquer based..."
So, what do I do? Do those prices seem crazy?
Seems like I remember Ron Kirn saying it should be ~$15 in an older thread...


I have a gallon of nitro and some white and blue tint but I don't think Ill be able to tint it to be a good sonic....

I would think that O'Reilly "acrylic" would work as a base coat just fine.

Yes, those prices are high, but that is the automotive refinishing world. It's not 1955 anymore.

:wink:

If you want nitro... order a can from reranch and spray it in into some clear in your spray gun cup. Or just spray the color coat with the reranch spray can.

If you want nitro... order a can from reranch and spray it in into some clear in your spray gun cup. Or just spray the color coat with the reranch spray can.

I'm scared of the shipping times and other issues people sometimes have with Reranch...
I feel like if they sold their colors in pints and quarts they'd make an even greater killing then they already do...

Oriellys has Duplicolor by the quart, which is lacquer for $25.
I asked if he could squirt the dupont colors into that to tint a white duplicolor and he said he has never done it and wasnt sure if it would work.

I'm scared of the shipping times and other issues people sometimes have with Reranch...
I feel like if they sold their colors in pints and quarts they'd make an even greater killing then they already do...

I have ordered from reranch two times, never had any issues. I agree on the quarts, I would buy more fom them if they had quarts available.

Last time I bought Dupont Chromabase about two years ago it was $22 for a pint. But it was worth, the stuff sprays like glass.

ya may wanna make note.. Leo used Acrylic Lacquers as a color coat and Nitrocellulose as a clear coat… not all the time, but often enough to establish it as SOP…. The Acrylics were often Dupont Lucite, and the Nitro was often Dupont Duco… with other paint manufacturer's products being used when supply dictated..

Today. Duplicolor is owned and operated by Sherwin Williams…. Who happened to supply Leo on occasion…. The Duplicolors are acrylic lacquier…. so squirt that rascal with your favorite Duplicolor, clear coat it with one of the several good quality nitros… and love it…. but….

remember…..

the dead wood still will not be breathing….. Oh yeah to keep the finish completely authentic… at least as authentic as modern regulation's choking grip on vintage formulations will permit…. do not forget the sealer coat of a good quality coat of plastic… Fullerplast will work fine….


Ron Kirn

Ron, I'm not a "wood can breathe" person. This is actually a kids guitar I'm refinishing as a favor. Its covered in Polyester anyway... He is set on nitro and buys into the whole idea that nitro is the greatest guitar finish ever.
Actually on my lunch break, I went by oriellys and got an idea.
I could get white Duplicolor, and get one of their duplicolor paint pens and tint the white to somthing close to sonic. THEN give him the nitro clear coat he desires lol.

if i was doing it for a youngster….. spray it with Duplicolor…. clear coat it with Deft Satin…. you're through with it…..

rk

I purchased Ice Blue Metallic from O'reilly's a couple of years ago. As you pointed out, it was very expensive. I was also a little disappointed by the color. Even though they used the Dupont code, it was a very different color than what we've come to think of as IBM on Fender Guitars - it was more silver and less blue.

Recently, I mixed my own Sonic Blue for a project I was working on using the Dupont Dupli-Color that is readily available at local auto stores. Once I got the mix right I was very happy with the results. YMMV.

http://www.duplicolor.com/

Hey Kddean66, I see you are about 1.5 hours north of me!

So, can you tell me which Duplicolor material(s) and what process you used?
got a pic of the end result?

Sure. I bought a can of Blue and a can of White along with clear for the final coats. I mixed the Blue and White until I felt the color was a good match for Sonic Blue. The stuff is pre-thinned so there was no need to use thinner. I then used the Preval spraying system and applied 3 coats of the color paint. I then sanded smooth (400, 600, 800, 1500 grit) and then applied 3 coats of clear. Sand again and viola! I don't have any pics or I would post for you, but it turned out really nice.

Here's the Preval website: http://www.preval.com/
(http://www.preval.com/)
Hey Kddean66, I see you are about 1.5 hours north of me!

So, can you tell me which Duplicolor material(s) and what process you used?

Another route is to go with all nitro and use pigments from StewMac. You can mix any number of opaque colors in clear and the bottles they sell go a long way. It's a good route if you plan on painting more guitars in the future.

ColorTone Pigments (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Colors,_tints,_and_stains/ColorTone_Liquid_Pigment_for_Lacquer.html)

I have white and blue colotone pigments.

The only problem with that, (IMHO) is that I'd need a ton of white to make it pretty concentrated. I think if I use white lacquer and tint it to sonic, I can shoot less color coats.

Maybe Im wrong.
I shot a paint gun full of thinned 1:1 nitro with stewmac white last night and it wasn't very concentrated. '

I think I will get the Duplicolor acrylic white, and add some stewmac blue and see what happens!

Thanks for the replys everyone

I have white and blue colotone pigments.

The only problem with that, (IMHO) is that I'd need a ton of white to make it pretty concentrated. I think if I use white lacquer and tint it to sonic, I can shoot less color coats.

Maybe Im wrong.
I shot a paint gun full of thinned 1:1 nitro with stewmac white last night and it wasn't very concentrated. '

I think I will get the Duplicolor acrylic white, and add some stewmac blue and see what happens!

Thanks for the replys everyone

Are you sure you needed to thin the nitro? Many don't require it and a 1:1 ratio of such would be very thin.

Also, you might want to call StewMac and see if the pigments are okay in acrylic lacquer...I don't remember seeing a recommendation for acrylics.

Either way, best of luck with the project and the learning experience. :cool:

Yeah, it was pretty thin, I'm still trying to figure out what ratios work, or if I even need thinning at all...
I have a friend that builds custom cars for people ( one recently is Jeremy Shockey) and he told me always to go 1:1. of course he isn't shooting nitro...

I did that with McFaddens and it seemed really nice.
Now im on Lenmar Nitro and it seems a lot thinner.
Last night was my first test sprays with the lenmar...
Ive been thinking about whether or not to thin it that much...

I talked to stewmac a few days before and I want to say they told me that their lacquer tints were compatible with all lacquers...
He also told me their colortone stains were compatible with lacquers as well.

Thanks for the kind words and info. Im still learning, but loving every second of it.

Ron, if I use Deft Satin, and I'm careful, can I get away with not having to buff it etc? I have a Grosh ElectraJet Standard in what they call their "suede" finish (they don't offer this anymore) and I love the look of it. Also, it seems like a lazier...er, less labor-intensive approach! I'm wondering if, being a novice refinisher, my chances of getting a better-looking satin finish are better than trying to do a gloss finish and not quite succeeding.

Not a lot at stake...I'm talking about refinishing a garage sale Peavey Raptor with an ugly stock sunburst finish.

sure can/// and the nice thing about Deft Satin is is sands very easy the next day… so you can load it up, let it dry over night block sand it the next day and mist a finish coat…. it'll look great…and it only took a couple of days… no pesky waiting for lacquer to cure…

To get that suede effect, hold the can about 18 inched from the surface and give it two quick mist coats…. if you don;t like it , sand again and try something else.. that Deft Satin is as forgiving as can be..

rk

So here is what i came up with. Duplicolor white acrylic with stewmac blue pigment.
Also, my friend decide last minute he wanted a really bold daphne....
I achieved a great sonic blue that id love to squirt on one of my own guitasr, but while mixing he kept demanding "more blue" and "brighter!" the result was not my favorite, but he was thrilled. It was encouraging that I could achieve a sonic blue that i thought was perfect with about 8 drops of stewmac blue for future projects.
Anyway.... iPhone pics arent super accurate
Before:
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz273/fish_35_photos/afef07c7.jpg
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz273/fish_35_photos/guitar-3.jpg
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz273/fish_35_photos/3c6fd475.jpg
I lost count of how many blue drops. probably over twenty with 3-4 drops of yellow to give it a little green.
My dream sonic was 8 drops of blue. easy. :-)

The sonic blue I bought from ReRanch is lighter than that.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/attachments/2012-tdpri-tele-build-challenge/127332d1336872224-mike-simpsons-2012-challenge-build-thread-compled-2012-tdpri-neckplate4-jpg

Also, my friend decide last minute he wanted a really bold daphne....
I achieved a great sonic blue that id love to squirt on one of my own guitasr, but while mixing he kept demanding "more blue" and "brighter!" the result was not my favorite, but he was thrilled.

The sonic blue I bought from ReRanch is lighter than that.


:cool:
The kid decided he wanted a really bold daphne blue.
He really liked this color. I don't really care for it.

There is no absolute exact match…..on any of the colors…. just because GM called a color Sonic Blue In '56. does not mean Fender's Sonic Blue has to be an exact match.

If you were trying to match a spot on your restored '56 Cadillac, sure perfection is paramount, not achievable even today, but ya gotta get it close.

But the color of a guitar bodies is not a big deal… specially when you consider what time, environment, and the abuse most put 'em through, can do to a color. Why in heck would any manufacturer bust their head, trying to maintain chromatic continuity for a few OCD afflicted guitarists?

All the words "Sonic Blue" on a can of paint suggests today is that the paint inside is a close match to that used in '56 on Cadillacs. "Close" being the key word, and your definition of "close" may not be the same as those that were filling the can.

If ya wanna get a handle on the relative tints…. Curt Novak has a great, probably the best, web page illustrating all the colors… google 'im and have a look-see.
Ron Kirn

:cool:
The kid decided he wanted a really bold daphne blue.
He really liked this color. I don't really care for it.

I missed the part about Daphne blue... oops.

Also the clear coats on both of these colors can alter the hue of blue as well. That is one reason that you see so many different shades of these light blue colors. The color can alsochange as the clear coats age and any amber in the clear will "green" the blue.

Fish 22, I love your holding system. Where did you get the parts to put it together?

ya may wanna make note.. Leo used Acrylic Lacquers as a color coat and Nitrocellulose as a clear coat… not all the time, but often enough to establish it as SOP…. The Acrylics were often Dupont Lucite, and the Nitro was often Dupont Duco… with other paint manufacturer's products being used when supply dictated..

Today. Duplicolor is owned and operated by Sherwin Williams…. Who happened to supply Leo on occasion…. The Duplicolors are acrylic lacquier…. so squirt that rascal with your favorite Duplicolor, clear coat it with one of the several good quality nitros… and love it…. but….

remember…..

the dead wood still will not be breathing….. Oh yeah to keep the finish completely authentic… at least as authentic as modern regulation's choking grip on vintage formulations will permit…. do not forget the sealer coat of a good quality coat of plastic… Fullerplast will work fine….


Ron Kirn

This thread is of great interest to me because I have started on a maple capped basswood Tele that will be Surf Green with binding. I was going to the parts store today to inquire about them mixing the Duco color.

Ron, I have read at least one of your threads which deals with the historic Dupont colors. I don't care if I get an "exact" match to some 60's Fender standard, but I've seen some crappy Surf Greens, and definitely want to get close to the original.

I thought that Nitro was incompatible with Acrylic Lacquer. I would have no problem with having the parts store tint Acrylic and then clear that with Nitro, but I have always heard that acrylic lacquer and Nitro do not work and play well together. Also, When you say "plastic" do you mean something like a vinyl sealer?

I thought that Nitro was incompatible with Acrylic Lacquer.

ya have to give it a couple days to "gas out" .. or do a test…. many are compatible…

Yeah, Plastic… Vinyl, or a poly ..

the problem with "exact" is the clearcoat…. if it was Duco, the final shade surf green would be a bit different if they ran out of Duco and was using Sherwin Williams, or Behlens..

"exact" and "vintage colors" are not allowed to collide in the same sentence…. :wink:

rk..

Thanks!

I went down to the Paint shop today. They wanted over $100 per quart of Acrylic Lacquer. They don't have anything remotely like Nitro, and won't have acrylic lacquer much longer. They had Dupont products and could mix any color I wanted as long as it was in Acrylic Lacquer or Urethane. They will have the water borne stuff soon (yuck).

I guess I will have to try to mix my own, or get used to spraying urethane.

Fish 22, I love your holding system. Where did you get the parts to put it together?
My little holder thing are parts I had laying around:
-Drum tom holder with pivot joint.
-Gibraltor rack mount clamp
-Halogen light stand
-2 hose clamps
-small piece of wood.
It makes it really easy to adjust the body while its wet.
Its not pretty, but I like that I can adjust it without touching the body.
I need to figure out a new base; the light stand isn't sturdy enough and scares me!
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz273/fish_35_photos/afef07c7.jpg

Thanks!

I went down to the Paint shop today. They wanted over $100 per quart of Acrylic Lacquer. They don't have anything remotely like Nitro, and won't have acrylic lacquer much longer. They had Dupont products and could mix any color I wanted as long as it was in Acrylic Lacquer or Urethane. They will have the water borne stuff soon (yuck).

I guess I will have to try to mix my own, or get used to spraying urethane.
Surf Green:
If you want to mix your own surf just do what I did except add some yellow (or green)
I actually added too much yellow at one point and got a great looking surf green, but since that wasn't the goal I added more blue to take it back to Daphne territory.